Really Low Min Framerate, but really High Average!?

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
Hi, ive done alot of similar posts on the subject of my framerates but i just cant let it rest cause something in my system is definately holding my gaming back from running as good as it used to. I own a 7800GTX and, once again using FEAR as an example, i am getting 34fps Min, 69fps Avg and 169fps Max with the game on Highest settings (SoftS. off) / 1024x768 Res. Results from FEAR performance test. Now i am not at all happy with the 34fps min that i get cause it has the game running nowhere near how it should be running with a 7800GTX or even a GT... Every time i get into a firefight (using fraps) i drop right down to low 30's and even low 20's sometimes! What i dont understand is that my Avg. framerate is very good and likewise the Max. framerate! :? I have done clean installs and even got my card replaced for a higher clocked one and still no improvement! Im pretty sure that my card is not the problem but what im not sure of is what is. Plz someone explain my problem. What is wrong??
 

chuckshissle

Splendid
Feb 2, 2006
4,579
0
22,780
The "graphics test" on FEAR is base only on that small scene, and does not reflect the card's actuall performance during an actual game play.

Fight scenarios in FEAR or any shooting games will task the cpu and graphics card(s) for a lot of things is happening at the same time like lot of movements and effects. So it takes a heavy toll on the system and dropping off the frame rates.

FEAR is currently the most graphically demanding game, so don't be surprise that your card is having a hard time producing smooth frame rate. So you do not need to max out everything. I have an 840 and 2x7800GTX 256 and I don't even set the graphics to max.

By the way, what's the rest of your system if you don't mind me asking.
 

sailer

Splendid
My guess is that your CPU is slowing down your machine. You can either overclock it or get a faster CPU. Another thing to keep in mind is the number of programs you have running in the background. Its not uncommon to have 50 to 60 programs running at the same time these days. That eats up your ram and forces a lot of hard disc useage for swap files, which in turn slows the machine down. I don't know how much ram you have, but I think 2 gig is a minimum these days.

Try using the taskmanager to see how many programs are running, then end as many as you can live without. I've seen some machines that are using as much as 800 mb just idling, which only leaves 200 mb for programs in a system with 1 gig of ram. After that ending what you can, try running Fear again and see if your framerates go up.

Only suggestions, and maybe you've already done these, but its all I can think of at the moment.
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
My system is in my sig. I might buy an Athlon 4000+ but would it be a waste considering its just one up from the 3700+ or will there be a big improvement in general? Im just trying to find a way of just improving my performance even a tad bit.
 

sdrawkcaBgoD

Distinguished
Apr 24, 2006
354
0
18,780
You'd be looking at about a 9% improvement. So, yes it would be a tad bit better. Enough to spend $330 USD on? Well, that's between you and your wallet.
 

cleeve

Illustrious
1. Minimum framerate will always be low. It's a fact that things wil slow down when a scene changes, enemies are added, and things have to be loaded from the hard disk.

If you want to raise your minimum framerate, 2gb of RAM might help. But minimukm framerate will always be low, not too much you can do about that.

A 4000+ from a 3700+ is a waste, you might see 3 frames per second difference, and maybe no difference in minimum framerate...
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
Right well thats not worth it then but what other gaming CPU is there cause i mean i dont wanna get dual core cause ive heard that they are really bad for gaming, so that would mean that the only options i have are the Athlon FX CPU's, which are way out of my range :?
 
My guess is that your CPU is slowing down your machine. You can either overclock it or get a faster CPU.

I don't believe the A64 3700+ is a bottleneck. It's just that F.E.A.R. and Oblivion are power hungry games. You would be very hard pressed to get 70fps even with Crossfire X1900XT in outdoor scenes.

Just accept the fact that both games pushes both CPU and GPU to the performance limit. The only way to cure it is to get a next generation GPU whose's architecture is designed to be more efficient than all the GPUs available today.
 

EllisD420

Distinguished
Jan 27, 2006
250
0
18,780
Well i wouldnt say that they are really bad for gaming, just a little immature. When creators start either coding their games for dual core or current games start releasing patches for dual core CPU's then you wont see much of a benefit, but it shouldnt hit you too hard because of the MS dual core hotfix and the amd driver available to fix some of the more prominent problems. With the kind of money that you are willing to spend going to the 4000+ i would just get an X2 3800+ or an Opty 165 since it seems that you will want to dabble in a bit of overclocking. This way you will better off when the dual core games hit. As for your current frame rates, i really dont know what the problem could be, but as others have stated, FEAR is a very taxing game and it is not out of the ordinary to have low min FPS numbers, especially with everything on ultra super duper high. How does it do if you kick the detail down a notch?
 

samir_nayanajaad

Distinguished
Feb 22, 2006
331
0
18,780
some stuff you might try if you havent already,

tighten up memory as much as possible, my rig (in sig) got 5 or so fps in FEAR (average) by going from 3-3-3-6 2t to 2-2-2-5 1t I dont know if your memory can go that tight but make them low as possible and go for 1t

oc the video card, it helps a little.

even if you dont oc I suggest taking off the hsf on the gpu and putting some as5 on to lower temps, prolly wont help the fps but I would still do it.

one last thing do you run the FEAR test more than once? The first run sucks but after FEAR loads some stuff into ram on the first run the second will be faster.

In game just play a few moments then reload, I have heard that works but no idea if it acctualy does.
 

ikaz

Distinguished
Basicaly the only good way to up minimum frame rate is to run your rig in SLI mode i.e get another 7800gtx that realy the only good thing (price and preformance wise IMHO) about SLI.
 

steckman

Distinguished
Apr 21, 2006
234
0
18,680
If the minimum framerate is caused by having to swap in a bunch of textures, then I don't think SLI will help much.
If that is the problem, additional texture memory might help, but only in the case where a previously used texture is needed again. A 256MB texture memory card may need to swap that old texture out while a 512MB card might be able to keep it around.
And if the minimum framerate is caused by a massive first time load of textures, then what you really need is a faster path from memory to the video card. And I don't think SLI will help with that either.
The only way in which SLI could help in this situation is if the cards are not mirroring the textures, but from my understanding that is how they work.
Just my two cents. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that. Not that anyone on these boards needs permission to do that :D .
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
How does it do if you kick the detail down a notch?

Actually its good you asked that question. See when i do try reduce the detail my framerates still stay roughly the same!? Even when i try putting the detail really low id probly get only like 40 min! What i tried recently was put AA and AF off compelely but even with that i had like 38-40 min on the stress test (only 4fps above when it was on Max detail)! So basically reducing the detail does nothing so i may as well have it on max :? The framerate just refuses to go up. Now thats definately not right is it?? By the way it used to run fine, just one day all this suddenly happened!
 

waylander

Distinguished
Nov 23, 2004
1,649
0
19,790
Just so you know my 3DMark05 score was in the 11500 range with my rig. The only noticeable differences are my processor and my SLI with 2 7800GTXs. I haven't had FRAPS running while playing FEAR but I can do so and let you know what I get if you'd like just for comparison sake.
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
Yeah that would be great, really appreciate, but seein as you are using SLI 7800's im not really gonna be able to compare so if its not too much trouble could you do it with just one card enabled so that it will be an easier comparison for me?
 

Jak_Sparra

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2006
519
0
19,060
WELL THEN.... try this:-

http://www.ocworkbench.com/2006/articles/DXtweaker/

by forcing triple buffering (which you dont have an option for ingame!!) you should get your average fps up by about 10-15fps and your lowest fps up by about 40fps opr higher..... I know it sounds crazy but just try it... its free! you might have to leave aa and fsaa at x2 or off. try them both to see what works for you!

Big up the CrazyRhino!
 

HideOut

Distinguished
Dec 24, 2005
555
82
19,070
I didnt see a mention of your sound card. I had an Audigy 2 plat. just last week and had similar lag/min frame rates. I put my Xfi in and it was fixed...and then some. Thats on my old AMD Xp based machien (OC'd to 2100mhz/200fsb though). Maybe thats your issue. people dont realize that when in a firefight the immense sounds overwelm most soun cards (and worse on built in sound) so it offloads processing to your CPU and it gets raped...Get an Xfi and solve your problem. if ya got a buddy with one, borrow it and test my theory. Only gonna cost ya 30 minutes of time.

Hide
 

waylander

Distinguished
Nov 23, 2004
1,649
0
19,790
rHy0,

I've run FEAR on highest settings with both SLI and single card and with SLI my average FPS is around 90, lowest is 60 (max around 200), single card avg is 80 and lowest is 45 (max is around 180).

I'm guessing that you're processor is your bottleneck at this point because if I run my system on single card the only real difference between our systems is my X2 4800.

Hope that helps.
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
Hmm... yeah well it is way better. Thanks for your time, it could be my CPU bottlenecking but it could also be a serious problem with my system :( I might just go for a new proccessor, i guess dual core, a 4400 or sumthin. Thanks again for doing this for me, its really helped, preciate it.
 

samir_nayanajaad

Distinguished
Feb 22, 2006
331
0
18,780
If you think it is your cpu causing your problem, try lowering the setting for the cpu in FEAR. That might be a inexpensive way to troubleshoot instead of buying an expensive cpu to find out it helped you about as much as lowering the graphics settings.

Or you could oc your cpu a little. (im seeing a theme develop in my thoughts)
 

rHy0

Distinguished
Feb 23, 2006
444
0
18,780
Hey thats an idea. Yeah i have not got a sound card at all at the moment, just using integrated (Audigy), so i might actually try getting a good sound card in my system before resorting to a new CPU cause they are pretty cheap right? What sound card exactly do you suggest i should get?