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Is the 6800 GS AGP worth the money?

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May 13, 2006 1:13:43 AM

I've been thinking about upgrading my low quality video card for a while now, but I'm stuck with AGP (gonna wait till Vista to get a new computer). I've done some searching, and I found the 6800 GS to be my best bet for my budget ($150-200). Does anyone know if the 6800 GS is worth the buy for me, or should I wait till Vista or when the 7800 GS price comes down? Any help would be appreciated.

My system:
Intel P4 2.6 Ghz w/ HT
1 GB RAM
All-In-Wonder 9600 AGP (I know, bad card)
Audigy 2 ZS sound card

More about : 6800 agp worth money

a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 1:46:16 AM

OK, surely the 9600 is holding your gaming back. A P4 2.6C with 1GB of ram still has great gaming potential if paired with a decent card.

As you know, your choices in AGP are few, and more expensive than an equivalent PCI-e card. I'm not a big fan of the 6800GS AGP with it's lower clock speeds than the PCI-e version. Sure, if it were under $150, it would be a nice card. But it's usually $195+, which is just way too high. Yesterday(if you are in the USA) you could have got this Sapphire X800GTO for $138 shipped free after rebate. This card will outperform the 6800GS out of the box(stock speeds)in the majority of games. Now it's $15 or so higher today, but still at $155 after rebate it's probably $40 cheaper than any 6800GS you will find, all while having better stock performance in most games compared to a reference 6800GS AGP.

Of course, if you are an overclocker/modder, the 6800GS has some potential to be pushed as far or farther than the current X800GTO's. But if you will be just running it as is out of the box, don't buy the 6800GS.

Last issue is the SM3.0 vs. Sm2.0b talks. I can tell you that persoanlly as a 6800ultra owner, I don't put alot of value into SM3.0/PS3.0 for any of the GF6 series cards. Whatever performance boost the card may get is meaningless if it still loses to the Sm2.0 card. And honestly OpenEXR HDR IMO is the only real benefit to having SM3, and a 6800GS is not going to cut it running that in games like Farcry, Oblivion, and AOE3? It simply doesn't have the power unless you sacrifice resolution, detail levels, and eye candy; a huge tradeoff to say the least.

Your choice obviously, but priced the same I'd buy a factory OC'ed 6800GS.(evga, BFG) Givin the prices I have seen, I'd buy the X800GTO for sure. Why pay a lot more money for less perfomance just to have SM3.0? Of course if you are banking on modding the 6800GS and squeezing it for all it's worth, it could be the better card. Just remember It won't however reach the 7800GS level of performance.

Also, you may still be able to find an AGP X800XL for $190 or so which with it's 16-pipes will spank both these cards out of the box.

Anyway, just my $.02, but to me under $200 AGP screams
1)X800XL or X850 pro if possible
2)$150 X800GTO 256MB
3)$200 6800GS, but only if you will be pushing clock speeds and/or modding
May 13, 2006 2:42:19 AM

As far as waiting for Vista, DON"T. Who knows when Vista will be out, it could be years at this rate. Maybe what you are waiting for are the Direct X 10 cards? Anyway, Pauldh has some good points.
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May 13, 2006 3:09:04 AM

Dont buy an X800GTO AGP model, the only ones left are the shit-hole R430 models, and they dont overclock for beans.

..............Also, why be stuck with dead hardware?....why would you buy a card that doesnt have pixelshader 3.0?....dont let people here tell you that it's not important, because they're all playing ps3.0 games with their ps3.0 cards :roll:

I had an X800GTO, and I kicked myself in the ass for not waiting a week longer to get the 6800GS.

That damn GTO cant even run all the 3dmark06 tests because it's too freakin' outdated :roll:

:wink:
May 13, 2006 3:10:58 AM

Quote:
Yesterday(if you are in the USA) you could have got this Sapphire X800GTO for $138 shipped free after rebate.

He didnt ask about that card you n00b :roll: ....he asked about the 6800GS :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:






































:wink:
May 13, 2006 3:37:06 AM

way to double post

kthnxbye
May 13, 2006 3:49:37 AM

I upgraded from an AGP 6600GT to a BFG 6800GS and I'm very happy with it. It made a very large difference in Oblivion and allows me to run at higher resolutions in Battlefield 2.
May 13, 2006 3:50:44 AM

If you understood how forums work you moron, you'd see that I was replying to two seperate post's.
May 13, 2006 11:27:29 AM

The 6800GS will make a big difference from your 9600AIW but I too don't think it's worth the almost $200 price tag. Maybe if it was closer to $150 or even lower. My opinion is that if you intend to upgrade your whole system within the next 18 months get a GPU in the $100-150 range so you can get sth really next gen later. You will sooner than later have to switch to PCIe and a faster processor so why spend more than you have to now? As far as the 6800GS is concerned, although it does support SM3.0, it isn't really a generation ahead of X800GTO. It doesn't have the muscle to run newer games noticeably better than the ATI card. At around $200 see if you can find X800XL
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 2:57:32 PM

Quote:
He didnt ask about that card you n00b :roll: ....he asked about the 6800GS :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol:  ROFL, I thought of you while typing that. Well bash me for caring enough to mention he may e able to get more performance for less money. Not everyone wants to bust their card into 3 million pieces just because it can't run every test in 3dmark06; some of us buy cards for gaming :tongue:

By the way, where can we buy a 6800GS AGP now? I don't see one listed at Newegg, Zipzoom, or pricewatch. Maybe he can just grab this Asus instead. Sure it's a sloth and has a 128-bit mem interface, but it has 512MB of mem and SM3.0 baby! woot woot droolz. :D  :D  :D 
May 13, 2006 3:07:54 PM

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

Here I found a 6800 GS AGP for $180, though it's not OCed or anything like that.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

Or even here an X1600 Pro IceQ (not a great card, but similar level to the 6800) for $124.

And I couldn't find any X800 XL AGPs on Newegg, and their X800GTOs are $170 or so. And the core clock speed for the GTO is 50 Mhz faster then the GS AGP, and has a memory speed of 20 Mhz less (1000 vs 980). And it only seems to have 12 pipelines and 4 vertex shaders, so in this case, for $10 more, the GS bumps the memory up, gets 5 vertex shaders (with 4 extra pipelines and a vertex shader unlockable), supports SM 3.0 at the cost of some core clock speed (that could of course be OCed to match the GTO). I'm still not sure about the GS, but I think from the reviews I've read, it's a fair bet.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 5:39:26 PM

Tiger probably charges $9-11 shipping on that card right? So roughly $190 shipped. That's probably the best price you will find. If it's a reference clocked 6800GS AGP, it is identical to the Asus 6800 V9999 Gamer Edition(card # 19) in this review. http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/index0511.... As you can see looking over the games in their charts, the stock X800GTO usually easily beats out this card.

Anyway, IF you are like GW and care nothing about leaving the card at stock speeds and 12 pipes, then the PNY might be your best bet. IMO, it is way too wimpy a card to spend $190 on. But in AGP your choices are few. If you aren't going to mod it, forget the 6800GS and grab the $155 (after $20 rebate) X800GTO instead, or save up for a 7800GS. Don't be fooled into thinking having a PS3.0 card is a huge benefit at this performance level. We are talking about a card that out of the box is already reduced to 800x600 medium details in some popular PS3.0 games. How futureproof is the card going to be? Will it run acceptable framerates in OpenEXR HDR in farcry, Oblivion, SS2, AOE3, etc? Will it have the power to run soft shadows? So exactly what's the real world benefit?

Tell me what benefit is there to being able to run HDR in Oblivion on a 6800GS? The 16-pipe 6800GT AVERAGES 23 fps in the foliage at 800x600 MEDIUM DETAILS. The X800XL manages better framerates at 1280x1024 with 2xaa/8xaf and bloom, at the same in game detail settings. That's the most popular sm3 title right now and it's clear the 6800GS doesn't have what it takes to run under the downright beautiful HDR settings as in AGP, 6800GT is clearly above 6800GS. OK, forget Oblivion, how does the 6800GT do in Farcry with HDR? Exactly where does the stock AGP 6800GS provide the nicer gaming experience compared to the X800GTO?

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you as it's not a bad card, just overpriced. Priced identical I'd take that PNY over the X800GTO. Also, the 6800GS has potential to be near 6800U levels of performance, so it could be just what you are looking to tinker with. I'm just sad that AGP supplies have dried up and price/perfomance just is terrible.
May 13, 2006 6:11:05 PM

Quote:
Tiger probably charges $9-11 shipping on that card right? So roughly $190 shipped. That's probably the best price you will find. If it's a reference clocked 6800GS AGP, it is identical to the Asus 6800 V9999 Gamer Edition(card # 19) in this review. http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/index0511.... As you can see looking over the games in their charts, the stock X800GTO usually easily beats out this card.

Anyway, IF you are like GW and care nothing about leaving the card at stock speeds and 12 pipes, then the PNY might be your best bet. IMO, it is way too wimpy a card to spend $190 on. But in AGP your choices are few. If you aren't going to mod it, forget the 6800GS and grab the $155 (after $20 rebate) X800GTO instead, or save up for a 7800GS. Don't be fooled into thinking having a PS3.0 card is a huge benefit at this performance level. We are talking about a card that out of the box is already reduced to 800x600 medium details in some popular PS3.0 games. How futureproof is the card going to be? Will it run acceptable framerates in OpenEXR HDR in farcry, Oblivion, SS2, AOE3, etc? Will it have the power to run soft shadows? So exactly what's the real world benefit?

Tell me what benefit is there to being able to run HDR in Oblivion on a 6800GS? The 16-pipe 6800GT AVERAGES 23 fps in the foliage at 800x600 MEDIUM DETAILS. The X800XL manages better framerates at 1280x1024 with 2xaa/8xaf and bloom, at the same in game detail settings. That's the most popular sm3 title right now and it's clear the 6800GS doesn't have what it takes to run under the downright beautiful HDR settings as in AGP, 6800GT is clearly above 6800GS. OK, forget Oblivion, how does the 6800GT do in Farcry with HDR? Exactly where does the stock AGP 6800GS provide the nicer gaming experience compared to the X800GTO?

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you as it's not a bad card, just overpriced. Priced identical I'd take that PNY over the X800GTO. Also, the 6800GS has potential to be near 6800U levels of performance, so it could be just what you are looking to tinker with. I'm just sad that AGP supplies have dried up and price/perfomance just is terrible.


http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/03/31/elder_scrolls...

Check thisout. Consider the 6800 GT to be the GS.
May 13, 2006 6:57:26 PM

I would vouch for the X800GTO. I know that GeneticWeapon doesn't like it because it doesn't overclock very well but when I got it I was deciding between the X800GTO and a 6800 vanila. I expected that the card would overclock well but it turned out that it didn't. I was pleasantly surprised, however, that I was able to unlock the card to 16 pixel pipes.

It appears that the most if not all of the R430 core X800GTOs are unlockable which makes them about the same as an X800XL. I have already helped two different people on these forums unlock a Sapphire X800GTO.

If you can handle it, this X800GTO is only about $150 after a rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 7:58:04 PM

6800GT OC is far better than reference 6800GS AGP, 4 more pipes and higher core clocks. But still it's within 6800GS's modded potential.

I know that review was the first available Oblivion review, but I am not in favor of it. The results don't jibe with other sites. Oblivion clearly has vastly different performance levels depending where you are. You simply can't do One test averaging fps, or it does very little if 1/3-1/2 of the game is spent getting fps near the reported minimum. Who knows if they even benched any of the most demanding areas? As Firingsquad and Anands reviews show, a card of this caliber in no way playable in all areas at such settings. They did reduce view distance which would greatly impact performance, but there is just too little info to go by that review considering others that contradtic it. Shoot head out into the foliage and near an oblivion gate and it will be crawling. A higher clocked pci-e 6800GS averaged 20 fps in Anand's Oblivion gate medium detail 10x7 benchmark, while the 6800GT averaged 18 fps in FS's foliage 10x7 medium. And who knows what the 6800GT OC scored in Bit-techs review in those map areas as they don't even specify if they benched those areas or for what percentage of the time they stayed there. 60 fps in a cave does not make up for 15 fps near an Oblivion gate, yet the average could be 40 fps. And Having them say the 6800GT provided the better gaming expereince over a X850XT makes me laugh. Shoot, Brandon that did the FS review admitted in the forums that with how much better X800XL did compared to 6800GT, it would be easy to assume the X850XT would be an even much better Oblivion experience.

To me that's just unacceptable and my settings would be reduced. With a 6800U OC, I tweaked settings to where my framerates stayed above 20 in the most demanding areas, but even so there were areas that stayed in the 20-25fps range until I moved on.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 8:02:51 PM

Quote:
I noticed that both the radeon x850pro and x850xt agp are in stock on Newegg. From what I've heard and seen, both of them seem to be way ahead of the 6800 gs in terms of performance. Are these two good deals? Also, should I buy one of them with my slot754 AMD 64 3000+? I'm wondering if they would be a bottleneck.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


OH MY WORD, YOU ARE THE BEST! New BBA X850XT AGP for $240! It hasn't been that price in ages. With Sub $290 7800GS's disappearing lately, this is nice to see for sure. Of course, it's still almost a X1800XT price in PCI-e.

X850 pro is about like X800XL, not bad at all, but still seems a bit too pricey.
May 13, 2006 10:17:28 PM

Quote:

X850 pro is about like X800XL, not bad at all, but still seems a bit too pricey.


That is why I think that an unlockable X800GTO is a good deal. It is cheaper than the X800XL but has the same performance becuase it is essentially the same card.
May 13, 2006 10:30:07 PM

The chances are better to unlock a 6800GS to 16pp than an X800GTO. And unlike the GTO, the 6800GS will become a much faster card if successful.
May 13, 2006 11:01:29 PM

Quote:
The chances are better to unlock a 6800GS to 16pp than an X800GTO. And unlike the GTO, the 6800GS will become a much faster card if successful.


I don't know how likely it is to be able to unlock the 6800GS because I don't have one. I do know however that the odds of being able to unlock the Sapphire X800GTOs seems pretty high right now.

I guess "much faster" is in the eye of the beholder. I upgraded from a 9800Pro to an X800GTO (big improvement) and then unlocked it which was icing on the cake.

I'm don't know where you can find an AGP 6800GS right now. Last I saw, they were at least $200 if not more which might put that card out of this guy's budget.

I do agree that an X850XT for $240 is probably not the best choice unless you can't swing the extra $30 for a 7800GS.
May 13, 2006 11:12:30 PM

yeh sure the gs is worth it, but if you have some extra $$$ try and get the x850xt as some people stated before
May 13, 2006 11:13:37 PM

Quote:
I'm don't know where you can find an AGP 6800GS right now.

Silent killer posted some links to some a few posts up.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:21:04 PM

Where is there a $270 7800GS right now? Supply of those, while much better than 6800GS, seems to be dropping too. From what I'm seeing they are back around $300 again. I have no problem with $270 for a 7800GS if someone is set on AGP, but X850XT for $240 is a $75+ price drop over recent weeks. Newegg to my knowledge has never had them for that cheap; hope it s trend on availability and not one last batch out the door.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:27:59 PM


Great price if it were brand new. Odd, like Zipzoom it says open box. The R at the end of the item # ( N82E16814127092R) is reserved for refurbs, and a 14 day warranty. Antec knows it and won't honor a warranty, not sure if MSI would pay attention to that R or not. If it's open box as apposed to refurb, they shouldn't have put the R at the end. I suggest OB and full warranty. :) 
May 13, 2006 11:33:27 PM

Quote:
I suggest OB and full warranty. :) 

I would still buy that card if I were looking though.

I would of course put it through my own "graphics death trials" before the newegg warranty went up :wink:
May 13, 2006 11:34:30 PM

Paul, what does the rig in your sig get in 05?
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:41:14 PM

At one time I felt X850XTpe > 7800GS. But really at stock speeds they trade blows and the 7800GS is easily equal IMO. An overclocked 7800GS is pretty impressive. It totally depends on the game, but I'd pick a 7800GS over a X850Xt and even XTpe if priced the same, unless it was for a specific game that favored the X850. $50 savings though would change my mind toward the Radeon. I'm just happy to see newegg not only carry X850XT AGP again, but price it much lower than the recent trend. A few other sites have followed suit. Makes me question if 1) another AGP card will be launched so they are dropping prices on whatever X850AGP's are left, or 2) there are more of these cards out there than we thought and in the near future they might be a better buy, or 3) there is one batch that ATI sold off cheap, and when they are gone...they're gone for good.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:42:02 PM

Quote:
I suggest OB and full warranty. :) 

I would still buy that card if I were looking though.

I would of course put it through my own "graphics death trials" before the newegg warranty went up :wink:
I don't doubt you would GW. ;) 
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:53:46 PM

Quote:
Paul, what does the rig in your sig get in 05?

Ah, worse than it would if it were in your sig. :x

I get about 8,850 stock and 9,766 is my best so far when OC'in the Radeon. I was hoping for 9K stock and 10K Radeon OC without OC'in the A64, but it's looking like I have to stop being a wimp and push some voltage on the radeon, OC the A64, or both to hit that 10K mark. I'm sure that you'd be at 10.5-11K on my system by now, I'm just too much of a wimp and too into Oblivion to bother trying. I haven't hit artifacts in 3dmark05 yet, but when i tried 700 core, ATI tools artifact checker found errors, and 800(1600) mem ATI tool locked up. I'm sure the card could be good for more, but my laziness wants to just OC the A64 to hit the next milestone.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2006 11:55:20 PM

How long before some noob bashes me for tripple posting?
May 14, 2006 12:00:40 AM

Quote:
At one time I felt X850XTpe > 7800GS. But really at stock speeds they trade blows and the 7800GS is easily equal IMO.

Many 7800GS's will hit 500Mhz core, which is a huge overclock. That, plus transperancy AA and OpenEXR HDR make the 7800GS a much better solution in my eyes.

Yes, the X850XTPE and 7800GS trade blows in benchmarks, but not after you overclock the two cards and bench them again.
May 14, 2006 12:03:06 AM

Quote:
[]9,766 is my best so far when OC'in the Radeon.

Damn Paul....that is a very nice score.
Quote:
How long before some noob bashes me for tripple posting?


I know :roll: ...the n00bs never fail to amaze me :lol: 
May 14, 2006 12:22:31 AM

$270 for a 7800 GS sounds like a good deal, but then again that's $90 over the 6800 GS and from the reviews I read about it, it isn't a huge performance jump.

On the other hand, I suppose that for $60 more than the 6800 GS, the X850 XT would be a pretty good deal (or even the X850 Pro), so I think those 2 could fit in my budget (of course, I could extend my budget for the 7800 GS too, but that depends if the card's worth the extra money).

Also, I'm pretty sure taht both the 6800 and 7800 GS both can do a fair amount of OCing (in particular the 7800) and the 6800 GS can get an extra quad and vertex shader as well (if they aren't damaged), so that could up the performance on the 2 cards.

All these choices have sure made me reconsider my decision to get the 6800 GS, lol. Thanks for all the advice everyone.
May 14, 2006 12:47:36 AM

Quote:
$270 for a 7800 GS sounds like a good deal, but then again that's $90 over the 6800 GS and from the reviews I read about it, it isn't a huge performance jump.

The reviews you read didnt show the 7800GS in it's best form = overclocked.

I'm telling you right now the difference is freakin' huge.
May 14, 2006 1:01:18 AM

Quote:
If you understood how forums work you moron, you'd see that I was replying to two seperate post's.

you can quote as many times u want in one post , dont be a douche and call people noobs when you are the one who is wrong.
May 14, 2006 1:02:56 AM

Quote:

I'm telling you right now the difference is freakin' huge.


Sweet, well then maybe the 7800 GS is worth it after all (after OCing). And from what I can tell from your sig, you sure pumped up the speed alot! lol
May 14, 2006 1:10:43 AM

Quote:
And from what I can tell from your sig, you sure pumped up the speed alot! lol

I'm telling you, any time you can overclock a card's core 125Mhz over stock it's pretty awesome :wink:

I bought this card to play one game mostly....

Max details on all settings brings me between 45-50 fps, and I'm really happy about it.

a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2006 2:43:34 AM

Hmm, I'd take your X800XL there for sure over the similar priced PNY 6800GS.

I guess the 3dmark score is OK, I just had set myself up thinking it would be higher. The San Deigo sure does well scoring over 5K CPU score at stock speeds.

Ah, 12x10 max details didn't happen for me with the 6800U. 125MHz core OC on that card would have been fabulous; it barely went beyond BFG's factory 25MHz. :roll: Thats was a fun game though. Pulled me away from BF2 and took me all the way to Oblivion. I never finished it though; am #2 on the blacklist with a few milestones to go before taking on Razor. You finish it yet?
May 14, 2006 2:57:07 AM

Quote:

I guess the 3dmark score is OK, I just had set myself up thinking it would be higher.

I cant tell you how many times I've done that to myself.....hence the reason I dont own a GTO anymore.
May 15, 2006 9:25:08 PM

I finally relented and purchased a PNY 6800GS AGP card from the main Fry's store in San Jose on Mother's Day. (only two in slock) I couldn't pass it up for $189 off the shelf with full warranty. The 6800GS has quickly left the marketplace and the 7800GS cards are just getting to $280 levels via mail order.

P.S. For those people interested, Fry's still had a few ATi x850 XTs on the shelf going for $279. Not low enough for me.
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