Which printers can be refilled ?

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a syringe
and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an all-in-one
printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using bottles of ink and a
syringe (no chipping !)

Cheers
Andy
34 answers Last reply
More about which printers refilled
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Andy100 wrote:
    > Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    > syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an all-in-one
    > printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using bottles of ink
    > and a syringe (no chipping !)
    >
    > Cheers
    > Andy

    most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to refill
    are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is excellent, because it
    has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so when it's empty you just fill
    the reservoir and you're done. Whole procedure takes about 1 minute tops...
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good printer,
    and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling necessary). However, it's
    not brilliant at printing onto photo paper. So, do you recommend any of the
    Canon 'all-in'one' printers, even the ones which have 6 or so separate ink
    tanks (for photo printing, i think) ?

    Cheers
    Andy


    "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    > Andy100 wrote:
    > > Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    > > syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an all-in-one
    > > printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using bottles of ink
    > > and a syringe (no chipping !)
    > >
    > > Cheers
    > > Andy
    >
    > most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to
    refill
    > are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is excellent, because it
    > has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so when it's empty you just fill
    > the reservoir and you're done. Whole procedure takes about 1 minute
    tops...
    >
    >
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Andy100 wrote:
    > Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good
    > printer, and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling
    > necessary). However, it's not brilliant at printing onto photo paper.
    > So, do you recommend any of the Canon 'all-in'one' printers, even the
    > ones which have 6 or so separate ink tanks (for photo printing, i
    > think) ?
    >
    > Cheers
    > Andy
    >

    MY opinion is that those multifunction devices are too expensive. If you
    want good all-in-one printer, you must get expensive model.
    only printer ip4000 however for very good price offers excellent photos.
    Maybe you should consider buying printer and scanner separately (but then
    again this depends on the purpose of intended use).
    I have ip4000 and i'm just more than very pleased with it. In any case, you
    better get at least the model with 5 carts (3 colors, text black and photo
    black). model 3000 doesn't have photo black, while some reviews tell that
    5000 is a bit behind 4000 at photos, while 8500 is already too expensive...
    As i've read reviews Canon multi devices as mp780, it's excellent photo
    printer, but expensive.
    At the end, if you will have PC most of the time turned on, it doesn't
    matter if you have two machines instead of one---> it will come cheaper.
    For reviews just search with google for names like (i'll state only few
    Canon's) MP110, MP130, MP750, MP780, MP360, MP370, MP390, MP730 photo,.
    Also note that for easy refill look for models with separate carts, as those
    are way easier to refill as combined ones.

    >
    >
    > "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    > news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    >> Andy100 wrote:
    >>> Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    >>> syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an
    >>> all-in-one printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using
    >>> bottles of ink and a syringe (no chipping !)
    >>>
    >>> Cheers
    >>> Andy
    >>
    >> most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to
    >> refill are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is
    >> excellent, because it has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so
    >> when it's empty you just fill the reservoir and you're done. Whole
    >> procedure takes about 1 minute tops...
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    All in ones are a compromise where nothing is the best in many cases.
    The best value for all around is the Canon IP4000.

    Andy100 wrote:

    >Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good printer,
    >and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling necessary). However, it's
    >not brilliant at printing onto photo paper. So, do you recommend any of the
    >Canon 'all-in'one' printers, even the ones which have 6 or so separate ink
    >tanks (for photo printing, i think) ?
    >
    >Cheers
    >Andy
    >
    >
    >
    >"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    >
    >
    >>Andy100 wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    >>>syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an all-in-one
    >>>printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using bottles of ink
    >>>and a syringe (no chipping !)
    >>>
    >>>Cheers
    >>>Andy
    >>>
    >>>
    >>most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to
    >>
    >>
    >refill
    >
    >
    >>are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is excellent, because it
    >>has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so when it's empty you just fill
    >>the reservoir and you're done. Whole procedure takes about 1 minute
    >>
    >>
    >tops...
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I have a Canon IP4000 printer and think it is great. I also have an
    Epson 4180 flatbed scanner and am satisfied with that also.

    SleeperMan wrote:

    >Andy100 wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good
    >>printer, and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling
    >>necessary). However, it's not brilliant at printing onto photo paper.
    >>So, do you recommend any of the Canon 'all-in'one' printers, even the
    >>ones which have 6 or so separate ink tanks (for photo printing, i
    >>think) ?
    >>
    >>Cheers
    >>Andy
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >MY opinion is that those multifunction devices are too expensive. If you
    >want good all-in-one printer, you must get expensive model.
    >only printer ip4000 however for very good price offers excellent photos.
    >Maybe you should consider buying printer and scanner separately (but then
    >again this depends on the purpose of intended use).
    >I have ip4000 and i'm just more than very pleased with it. In any case, you
    >better get at least the model with 5 carts (3 colors, text black and photo
    >black). model 3000 doesn't have photo black, while some reviews tell that
    >5000 is a bit behind 4000 at photos, while 8500 is already too expensive...
    >As i've read reviews Canon multi devices as mp780, it's excellent photo
    >printer, but expensive.
    >At the end, if you will have PC most of the time turned on, it doesn't
    >matter if you have two machines instead of one---> it will come cheaper.
    >For reviews just search with google for names like (i'll state only few
    >Canon's) MP110, MP130, MP750, MP780, MP360, MP370, MP390, MP730 photo,.
    >Also note that for easy refill look for models with separate carts, as those
    >are way easier to refill as combined ones.
    >
    >
    >
    >>"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >>news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    >>
    >>
    >>>Andy100 wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    >>>>syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an
    >>>>all-in-one printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using
    >>>>bottles of ink and a syringe (no chipping !)
    >>>>
    >>>>Cheers
    >>>>Andy
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to
    >>>refill are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is
    >>>excellent, because it has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so
    >>>when it's empty you just fill the reservoir and you're done. Whole
    >>>procedure takes about 1 minute tops...
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the IP4000 then.
    Thanks
    Andy


    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Fv6Ud.9720$Pz7.5419@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    > All in ones are a compromise where nothing is the best in many cases.
    > The best value for all around is the Canon IP4000.
    >
    > Andy100 wrote:
    >
    > >Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good
    printer,
    > >and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling necessary). However,
    it's
    > >not brilliant at printing onto photo paper. So, do you recommend any of
    the
    > >Canon 'all-in'one' printers, even the ones which have 6 or so separate
    ink
    > >tanks (for photo printing, i think) ?
    > >
    > >Cheers
    > >Andy
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    > >news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    > >
    > >
    > >>Andy100 wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled with a
    > >>>syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an all-in-one
    > >>>printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using bottles of ink
    > >>>and a syringe (no chipping !)
    > >>>
    > >>>Cheers
    > >>>Andy
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest to
    > >>
    > >>
    > >refill
    > >
    > >
    > >>are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is excellent, because
    it
    > >>has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so when it's empty you just
    fill
    > >>the reservoir and you're done. Whole procedure takes about 1 minute
    > >>
    > >>
    > >tops...
    > >
    > >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    > Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the IP4000
    then.
    > Thanks
    > Andy

    The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    refilled.
    I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer online. It
    helped me
    avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other suppliers who
    can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    > I have a Canon IP4000 printer and think it is great. I also have an
    > Epson 4180 flatbed scanner and am satisfied with that also.


    similar here...i have pretty old Acer SCSI scanner and it serves my needs
    perfectly.

    >
    > SleeperMan wrote:
    >
    >> Andy100 wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Thank you, yes i already have a Canon S200SPx, it's a pretty good
    >>> printer, and i fill it from the nozzle ends (so no drilling
    >>> necessary). However, it's not brilliant at printing onto photo
    >>> paper. So, do you recommend any of the Canon 'all-in'one' printers,
    >>> even the ones which have 6 or so separate ink tanks (for photo
    >>> printing, i think) ?
    >>>
    >>> Cheers
    >>> Andy
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> MY opinion is that those multifunction devices are too expensive. If
    >> you want good all-in-one printer, you must get expensive model.
    >> only printer ip4000 however for very good price offers excellent
    >> photos. Maybe you should consider buying printer and scanner
    >> separately (but then again this depends on the purpose of intended
    >> use). I have ip4000 and i'm just more than very pleased with it. In any
    >> case, you better get at least the model with 5 carts (3 colors, text
    >> black and photo black). model 3000 doesn't have photo black, while
    >> some reviews tell that 5000 is a bit behind 4000 at photos, while
    >> 8500 is already too expensive... As i've read reviews Canon multi
    >> devices as mp780, it's excellent photo printer, but expensive.
    >> At the end, if you will have PC most of the time turned on, it
    >> doesn't matter if you have two machines instead of one---> it will
    >> come cheaper. For reviews just search with google for names like
    >> (i'll state only few Canon's) MP110, MP130, MP750, MP780, MP360,
    >> MP370, MP390, MP730 photo,. Also note that for easy refill look for
    >> models with separate carts, as those are way easier to refill as
    >> combined ones.
    >>> "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >>> news:psMTd.9562$F6.1852470@news.siol.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Andy100 wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Is there a website showing me which printers can be re-filled
    >>>>> with a syringe and bought ink ?. I was particularly looking for an
    >>>>> all-in-one printer/copier/scanner on which i can re-fill using
    >>>>> bottles of ink and a syringe (no chipping !)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Cheers
    >>>>> Andy
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> most if not all can, but some easier, some difficult. The easiest
    >>>> to refill are definitely Canon printers. It's two part cart is
    >>>> excellent, because it has separately sponge and ink reservoir, so
    >>>> when it's empty you just fill the reservoir and you're done. Whole
    >>>> procedure takes about 1 minute tops...
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    John Q wrote:
    > "Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >> Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >> IP4000 then. Thanks
    >> Andy
    >
    > The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    > refilled.
    > I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    > online. It helped me
    > avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    > Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    > suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    > My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    > included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.

    Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask me.
    Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as gift...
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    The wide carriage i9900 is only $50 more than the IP8500. While not a
    PIXMA with full duplex and dual paper trays, they both have the same
    print engine and both will give you the best photographic results. For
    the money, if you are willing to compromise on business document
    printing, the ability of the i9900 to produce prints up to 13x19.

    SleeperMan wrote:

    >John Q wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>
    >>
    >>>Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>Andy
    >>>
    >>>
    >>The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>refilled.
    >>I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>online. It helped me
    >>avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask me.
    >Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as gift...
    >
    >
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    > The wide carriage i9900 is only $50 more than the IP8500. While not a
    > PIXMA with full duplex and dual paper trays, they both have the same
    > print engine and both will give you the best photographic results. For the
    > money, if you are willing to compromise on business document
    > printing, the ability of the i9900 to produce prints up to 13x19.
    >


    Hmmm...i'll just stick with ip4000 for now...

    > SleeperMan wrote:
    >
    >> John Q wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> "Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>> IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>> Andy
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>> refilled.
    >>> I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>> online. It helped me
    >>> avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>> Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>> suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>> My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system
    >>> which included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink
    >>> cartridges.
    >>
    >> Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >> expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >> And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you
    >> ask me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me
    >> one as gift...
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the sponge
    gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area runs out.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    > John Q wrote:
    >> "Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>> Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>> IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>> Andy
    >>
    >> The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >> refilled.
    >> I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >> online. It helped me
    >> avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >> Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >> suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >> My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >> included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >
    > Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    > expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    > And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask
    > me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as
    > gift...
    >
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Taliesyn's advice is excellent. Neil Slade's technique is a bit more "down
    and dirty" (not literally dirty!) in that he puts on rubber gloves, holds
    the cart with one finger firmly under the ink exit port, removes the plug,
    injects the ink, replaces the plug, and lets go of the exit port. This is
    what I do. Before I take out the cart from the printer I open the ink
    container, draw ink into the syringe, CLOSE THE INK CONTAINER TO PREVENT A
    SPILL, and put the syringe down. I then pick up the cart and do what I
    mentioned above. After the cart is filled and any excess ink wiped off I
    then reopen the ink container, squirt the excess ink from the syringe back
    into the container and close the ink container. I generally top off all
    carts when one is about 2/3rds empty and needs refilling. I have enough
    syringes, each marked with the color ink I use it for, so that I don't have
    to stop and clean a syringe between refilling each cart.

    As Neil Slade advises, if you are refilling OEM carts, buy the Computer
    Friends blue plastic plugs as they are very easy to manage with one hand,
    even with rubber gloves on. They don't list these plugs on their web site
    as a separate item as they come in their refill kits. If you call them you
    will be able to buy them separately.

    "Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:38koptF5ofo9uU1@individual.net...
    > Andy Petro wrote:
    >> Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    >> Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the
    >> sponge gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area
    >> runs out.
    >
    > Runs out as in leaks out of the exit hold at the bottom?
    >
    > What most of us do - or perhaps I should say, I do - is attach the
    > original orange break-off cap with rubber bands to the cartridge ink
    > exit hole (rather tightly). Then after filling I seal the fill hole
    > absolutely air tight or else the ink will run out again when I remove
    > the orange cap from the bottom. Failure to seal the hole from which you
    > filled the ink is the only reason ink would "run out". I use any of
    > following methods currently for sealing the fill hole: - a small stainless
    > steel screw (must be stainless!), a plastic or soft rubber plug available
    > from ink dealers, or, some of my cartridges have a built in plastic
    > sealing screw for the fill hole. Others have used glue guns
    > with great success. If you've thrown away the orange break-off caps, you
    > can try sealing the bottom exit hole with electrical tape while
    > you fill. BUT YOU MUST SEAL THE TOP FILL HOLE after, or else your nice new
    > iP4000 printer will be swimming in ink.
    >
    > -Taliesyn
    >
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >> ______________________________________________________________________________________
    >>
    >> "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >> news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    >>
    >>>John Q wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>"Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>>
    >>>>>Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>>>IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>>>Andy
    >>>>
    >>>>The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>>>refilled.
    >>>>I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>>>online. It helped me
    >>>>avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>>>Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>>>suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>>>My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>>>included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>>
    >>>Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >>>expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >>>And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask
    >>>me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as
    >>>gift...
    >>>
    >>
    >>
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Andy,
    I've created a small pdf file that shows how easy it is to refill Canon
    cartridges. I can send a copy to you or anyone else who wants one. Let me
    know by private email if you'd like a copy.
    --
    Ron Cohen

    "Andy Petro" <andy.petro@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:jd9Vd.27012$Vf6.819413@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    > Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the
    > sponge gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area
    > runs out.
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    > ______________________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > "SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    > news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    >> John Q wrote:
    >>> "Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>> Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>> IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>> Andy
    >>>
    >>> The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>> refilled.
    >>> I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>> online. It helped me
    >>> avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>> Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>> suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>> My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>> included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>
    >> Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >> expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >> And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask
    >> me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as
    >> gift...
    >>
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Do you have to wash out the syringes after you complete the refill
    process? If so, how clean to they have to be?

    Burt wrote:

    >Taliesyn's advice is excellent. Neil Slade's technique is a bit more "down
    >and dirty" (not literally dirty!) in that he puts on rubber gloves, holds
    >the cart with one finger firmly under the ink exit port, removes the plug,
    >injects the ink, replaces the plug, and lets go of the exit port. This is
    >what I do. Before I take out the cart from the printer I open the ink
    >container, draw ink into the syringe, CLOSE THE INK CONTAINER TO PREVENT A
    >SPILL, and put the syringe down. I then pick up the cart and do what I
    >mentioned above. After the cart is filled and any excess ink wiped off I
    >then reopen the ink container, squirt the excess ink from the syringe back
    >into the container and close the ink container. I generally top off all
    >carts when one is about 2/3rds empty and needs refilling. I have enough
    >syringes, each marked with the color ink I use it for, so that I don't have
    >to stop and clean a syringe between refilling each cart.
    >
    >As Neil Slade advises, if you are refilling OEM carts, buy the Computer
    >Friends blue plastic plugs as they are very easy to manage with one hand,
    >even with rubber gloves on. They don't list these plugs on their web site
    >as a separate item as they come in their refill kits. If you call them you
    >will be able to buy them separately.
    >
    >"Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    >news:38koptF5ofo9uU1@individual.net...
    >
    >
    >>Andy Petro wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    >>>Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the
    >>>sponge gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area
    >>>runs out.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Runs out as in leaks out of the exit hold at the bottom?
    >>
    >>What most of us do - or perhaps I should say, I do - is attach the
    >>original orange break-off cap with rubber bands to the cartridge ink
    >>exit hole (rather tightly). Then after filling I seal the fill hole
    >>absolutely air tight or else the ink will run out again when I remove
    >>the orange cap from the bottom. Failure to seal the hole from which you
    >>filled the ink is the only reason ink would "run out". I use any of
    >>following methods currently for sealing the fill hole: - a small stainless
    >>steel screw (must be stainless!), a plastic or soft rubber plug available
    >>from ink dealers, or, some of my cartridges have a built in plastic
    >>sealing screw for the fill hole. Others have used glue guns
    >>with great success. If you've thrown away the orange break-off caps, you
    >>can try sealing the bottom exit hole with electrical tape while
    >>you fill. BUT YOU MUST SEAL THE TOP FILL HOLE after, or else your nice new
    >>iP4000 printer will be swimming in ink.
    >>
    >>-Taliesyn
    >>
    >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >>
    >>
    >>>______________________________________________________________________________________
    >>>
    >>>"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >>>news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>John Q wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>"Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>>>>IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>>>>Andy
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>>>>refilled.
    >>>>>I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>>>>online. It helped me
    >>>>>avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>>>>Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>>>>suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>>>>My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>>>>included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >>>>expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >>>>And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you ask
    >>>>me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one as
    >>>>gift...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    although I really liked tom kilmas' response to your question I will answer
    without tongue in cheek! After all refilling is done I just take the
    syringes to the sink, pull them apart and rinse, put them back together, and
    run water through them a few times. The dye based inks are readily soluble
    in water and a few syringes full of water clearn them well. I then leave
    them apart for some hours to let them dry. I have them marked for each
    color just in case there is any residue of dye left in them. They look
    completely clean to me at that point.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:_mdVd.8443$OU1.7549@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    > Do you have to wash out the syringes after you complete the refill
    > process? If so, how clean to they have to be?
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>Taliesyn's advice is excellent. Neil Slade's technique is a bit more
    >>"down and dirty" (not literally dirty!) in that he puts on rubber gloves,
    >>holds the cart with one finger firmly under the ink exit port, removes the
    >>plug, injects the ink, replaces the plug, and lets go of the exit port.
    >>This is what I do. Before I take out the cart from the printer I open the
    >>ink container, draw ink into the syringe, CLOSE THE INK CONTAINER TO
    >>PREVENT A SPILL, and put the syringe down. I then pick up the cart and do
    >>what I mentioned above. After the cart is filled and any excess ink wiped
    >>off I then reopen the ink container, squirt the excess ink from the
    >>syringe back into the container and close the ink container. I generally
    >>top off all carts when one is about 2/3rds empty and needs refilling. I
    >>have enough syringes, each marked with the color ink I use it for, so that
    >>I don't have to stop and clean a syringe between refilling each cart.
    >>
    >>As Neil Slade advises, if you are refilling OEM carts, buy the Computer
    >>Friends blue plastic plugs as they are very easy to manage with one hand,
    >>even with rubber gloves on. They don't list these plugs on their web site
    >>as a separate item as they come in their refill kits. If you call them
    >>you will be able to buy them separately.
    >>
    >>"Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    >>news:38koptF5ofo9uU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >>>Andy Petro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    >>>>Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the
    >>>>sponge gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area
    >>>>runs out.
    >>>>
    >>>Runs out as in leaks out of the exit hold at the bottom?
    >>>
    >>>What most of us do - or perhaps I should say, I do - is attach the
    >>>original orange break-off cap with rubber bands to the cartridge ink
    >>>exit hole (rather tightly). Then after filling I seal the fill hole
    >>>absolutely air tight or else the ink will run out again when I remove
    >>>the orange cap from the bottom. Failure to seal the hole from which you
    >>>filled the ink is the only reason ink would "run out". I use any of
    >>>following methods currently for sealing the fill hole: - a small
    >>>stainless steel screw (must be stainless!), a plastic or soft rubber plug
    >>>available from ink dealers, or, some of my cartridges have a built in
    >>>plastic sealing screw for the fill hole. Others have used glue guns
    >>>with great success. If you've thrown away the orange break-off caps, you
    >>>can try sealing the bottom exit hole with electrical tape while
    >>>you fill. BUT YOU MUST SEAL THE TOP FILL HOLE after, or else your nice
    >>>new iP4000 printer will be swimming in ink.
    >>>
    >>>-Taliesyn
    >>>
    >>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >>>
    >>>>______________________________________________________________________________________
    >>>>
    >>>>"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >>>>news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>John Q wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>"Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>>>>>IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>>>>>Andy
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>>>>>refilled.
    >>>>>>I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>>>>>online. It helped me
    >>>>>>avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>>>>>Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>>>>>suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>>>>>My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>>>>>included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >>>>>expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >>>>>And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you
    >>>>>ask me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one
    >>>>>as gift...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Based on your total printing costs for the year, how much do you save
    doing all of the work that refilling takes as opposed to just buying the
    same ink via MIS generic carts for $5.00 per?


    Burt wrote:

    >although I really liked tom kilmas' response to your question I will answer
    >without tongue in cheek! After all refilling is done I just take the
    >syringes to the sink, pull them apart and rinse, put them back together, and
    >run water through them a few times. The dye based inks are readily soluble
    >in water and a few syringes full of water clearn them well. I then leave
    >them apart for some hours to let them dry. I have them marked for each
    >color just in case there is any residue of dye left in them. They look
    >completely clean to me at that point.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:_mdVd.8443$OU1.7549@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Do you have to wash out the syringes after you complete the refill
    >>process? If so, how clean to they have to be?
    >>
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Taliesyn's advice is excellent. Neil Slade's technique is a bit more
    >>>"down and dirty" (not literally dirty!) in that he puts on rubber gloves,
    >>>holds the cart with one finger firmly under the ink exit port, removes the
    >>>plug, injects the ink, replaces the plug, and lets go of the exit port.
    >>>This is what I do. Before I take out the cart from the printer I open the
    >>>ink container, draw ink into the syringe, CLOSE THE INK CONTAINER TO
    >>>PREVENT A SPILL, and put the syringe down. I then pick up the cart and do
    >>>what I mentioned above. After the cart is filled and any excess ink wiped
    >>>off I then reopen the ink container, squirt the excess ink from the
    >>>syringe back into the container and close the ink container. I generally
    >>>top off all carts when one is about 2/3rds empty and needs refilling. I
    >>>have enough syringes, each marked with the color ink I use it for, so that
    >>>I don't have to stop and clean a syringe between refilling each cart.
    >>>
    >>>As Neil Slade advises, if you are refilling OEM carts, buy the Computer
    >>>Friends blue plastic plugs as they are very easy to manage with one hand,
    >>>even with rubber gloves on. They don't list these plugs on their web site
    >>>as a separate item as they come in their refill kits. If you call them
    >>>you will be able to buy them separately.
    >>>
    >>>"Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    >>>news:38koptF5ofo9uU1@individual.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Andy Petro wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Can anyone tell me how i can refill the black 3E or 6 ink cartridge on a
    >>>>>Cannon IP4000 without it running out. I can refill it only till the
    >>>>>sponge gets saturated . Any more than this that shows in the glass area
    >>>>>runs out.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>Runs out as in leaks out of the exit hold at the bottom?
    >>>>
    >>>>What most of us do - or perhaps I should say, I do - is attach the
    >>>>original orange break-off cap with rubber bands to the cartridge ink
    >>>>exit hole (rather tightly). Then after filling I seal the fill hole
    >>>>absolutely air tight or else the ink will run out again when I remove
    >>>>the orange cap from the bottom. Failure to seal the hole from which you
    >>>>filled the ink is the only reason ink would "run out". I use any of
    >>>>following methods currently for sealing the fill hole: - a small
    >>>>stainless steel screw (must be stainless!), a plastic or soft rubber plug
    >>>>available from ink dealers, or, some of my cartridges have a built in
    >>>>plastic sealing screw for the fill hole. Others have used glue guns
    >>>>with great success. If you've thrown away the orange break-off caps, you
    >>>>can try sealing the bottom exit hole with electrical tape while
    >>>>you fill. BUT YOU MUST SEAL THE TOP FILL HOLE after, or else your nice
    >>>>new iP4000 printer will be swimming in ink.
    >>>>
    >>>>-Taliesyn
    >>>>
    >>>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>______________________________________________________________________________________
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"SleeperMan" <SleeperMan@too.sleepy> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:LRmUd.9617$F6.1881304@news.siol.net...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>John Q wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>"Andy100" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll certainly look into the
    >>>>>>>>IP4000 then. Thanks
    >>>>>>>>Andy
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>The Canon iP8500 will give you better reds and greens, and it can be
    >>>>>>>refilled.
    >>>>>>>I suggest checking resellerratings.com before buying a printer
    >>>>>>>online. It helped me
    >>>>>>>avoid the vendors from hell. :-)
    >>>>>>>Ink refill supplies can be found at weink.com and many other
    >>>>>>>suppliers who can be found using Google or searching ebay.
    >>>>>>>My ink costs are much lower since I bought an ink refill system which
    >>>>>>>included syringes, bottles of ink, and easy-fill ink cartridges.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>Easy to say if you're in USA...in Europe this printer is waaaaay to
    >>>>>>expensive...say 3 times ip4000.
    >>>>>>And this is definitely not worthed for maybe 1% better photos if you
    >>>>>>ask me. Still, i'd really like to have it if someone would get me one
    >>>>>>as gift...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    MIS generic carts are not filled with the MIS inks that they sell in bulk.
    I have not seen anyone report on these prefilled MIS carts and have not
    tried them, but I refill OEM carts over and over with MIS inks and have seen
    no color difference or printer problems. Refilling is not a lot of work -
    it is quite easy once you get the hang of it. As a matter of fact, if you
    go to Office Depot, CompUSA, or any of the other stores to pick up OEM ink
    carts you have expended some time also!

    I do large print runs (500 - 700 photos) a few times a year after trips
    abroad, print 100 or so seasonal greeting cards at a time, personalized
    greeting cards for family and friends, print party invitations, and
    otherwise print family photos. I would guess that in a year's time I will
    have saved the price of several printers. My first i960 cost $150 from
    Amazon and my second one, which I bought for my wife's computer, cost $100
    on a close out at CompUSA. I have already saved more than the cost of those
    two printers in a half year of refilling.

    MIS ink costs $5 per 2 oz (60cc) container. (cheaper in larger volume) An
    OEM cart has about 14 cc., but you can not use all of the ink as the printer
    gives you an ink out signal when the reservoir is empty. It is advisable to
    refill when the reservoir is no more than 3/4 empty. The entire reservoir
    takes something in the neighborhood of 10 cc. You would get six or so
    refills per 2 oz container if you waited for the entire reservoir to empty
    (not advisable). This works out to be a cost of $5 as opposed to 6x$12 =
    $72 if you purchased the carts retail. What you do, essentially, is make
    the ink cost nominal. All this and beautiful photos! For my canon i960 I
    purchased 2 oz containers of each color ink - six containers. This provides
    about 36 refills at a cost of $30 plus shipping - about $1 per refill. Best
    price for OEM carts at about $10 per cart would be $360. At retail that
    would amount to about $430. We shouldn't forget the cost of the carts
    themselves. I'm still using the original carts that came with the printer,
    some of which have been refilled six or so times and are still working as
    new. I did buy empty carts recently for about $4 each, and that cost should
    be factored in if we are really doing close cost accounting. I've had no
    problems with the printer clogging, skipping, banding, or ink leaking. In
    about six months I've already saved enough to buy my two printers. It
    makes sense to me.

    If you want to buy already filled carts I have read good reviews on this
    newsgroup about the Alotofthings Arrow carts (not their Rainbow carts) that
    cost a bit more than $2 apiece on their ebay store. They are filled with
    Formulabs inks. They also sell Formulab ink in bulk. I am presently happy
    with the MIS ink and see no reason to change. I may buy a "12 pack" of
    Alotofthings Arrowjet carts and try them on my wife's printer as a
    comparison. I have read that these can also be refilled as well.

    If you haven't gone on Neil Slades site it is worth a read. This is the
    info that really motivated me to get rid of an Epson in fine working
    condition, buy the i960, and use the MIS refill inks. the site is
    http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html

    The fact is that I can easily afford OEM inks, OEM papers, and any printer I
    would want to buy. If Neil's info had been incorrect I would be out the
    cost of a printer - $150 worst case. I decided to go for it just for the
    fun of beating the system. I am retired, have the time to play with this
    stuff, and don't like to be intimidated by technology or commercialism. I
    like to be "hands on" and do as many steps in the process as I am able. It
    worked out better than that by far as the i960 printer and MIS inks produce
    gorgeous photos.

    As evidenced by the number of posts and responses you do on the newsgroup
    you also have more than enough time on your hands to do this if you wish.
    Your risk factor, the cost of an ip4000, is about $150 from what I can glean
    from googling the printer, the same as my first i960. You already own a set
    of OEM carts that are refillable. for the price of a few syringes, some
    medical exam gloves, and a set of bulk refill inks, (plus cart plugs from
    computer friends as recommended by Neil Slade) you can give it a try. If
    you don't like the colors or feel it is too much work you haven't lost much.
    I can only tell you that, so far, I haven't destroyed my printer doing
    refilling.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:MwoVd.2097$C47.932@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    > Based on your total printing costs for the year, how much do you save
    > doing all of the work that refilling takes as opposed to just buying the
    > same ink via MIS generic carts for $5.00 per?
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I believe what you say. I did read Neils article and I have also gone
    to Alotofthings. I do not especially like to do business on Ebay or get
    involved with pay pal. I hear that they are targets for hackers and
    security may be a problem. I write computer programs so I am especially
    skeptical about security. The hackers are very bright people.

    I am very careful about what e commerce sites I do business with.

    One thing does perplex me about 3rd party inks. The MIS ink carts do
    not say they are not MIS ink. I find that disturbing. I also do not
    know if MIS is the mfg of MIS inks. If they are not then if they change
    suppliers than the inks will be different.

    I have owned my printer for 5 months and have the original OEM inks. I
    would probably use not more than 3 sets. Most of my business documents
    are done on my HP. The draft quality on my 990Cse is better than the
    Canon standard but slightly slower than the speed of the Canon
    standard. The Canon draft speed is no contest. My wife uses that to
    print EMail and driving directions.

    However, I am tempted to look into 3rd party. I do hear that Formulabs
    ink is good.

    The bottom line on 3rd party inks from what I glean from this newsgroups
    and other like this is that most people who have printer clogging can
    trace their problem to 3rd party inks. There are many more Epson
    problems than Canon and those people who use pigment colorants like
    those in the Epson R800 really have problems.

    Burt wrote:

    >MIS generic carts are not filled with the MIS inks that they sell in bulk.
    >I have not seen anyone report on these prefilled MIS carts and have not
    >tried them, but I refill OEM carts over and over with MIS inks and have seen
    >no color difference or printer problems. Refilling is not a lot of work -
    >it is quite easy once you get the hang of it. As a matter of fact, if you
    >go to Office Depot, CompUSA, or any of the other stores to pick up OEM ink
    >carts you have expended some time also!
    >
    >I do large print runs (500 - 700 photos) a few times a year after trips
    >abroad, print 100 or so seasonal greeting cards at a time, personalized
    >greeting cards for family and friends, print party invitations, and
    >otherwise print family photos. I would guess that in a year's time I will
    >have saved the price of several printers. My first i960 cost $150 from
    >Amazon and my second one, which I bought for my wife's computer, cost $100
    >on a close out at CompUSA. I have already saved more than the cost of those
    >two printers in a half year of refilling.
    >
    >MIS ink costs $5 per 2 oz (60cc) container. (cheaper in larger volume) An
    >OEM cart has about 14 cc., but you can not use all of the ink as the printer
    >gives you an ink out signal when the reservoir is empty. It is advisable to
    >refill when the reservoir is no more than 3/4 empty. The entire reservoir
    >takes something in the neighborhood of 10 cc. You would get six or so
    >refills per 2 oz container if you waited for the entire reservoir to empty
    >(not advisable). This works out to be a cost of $5 as opposed to 6x$12 =
    >$72 if you purchased the carts retail. What you do, essentially, is make
    >the ink cost nominal. All this and beautiful photos! For my canon i960 I
    >purchased 2 oz containers of each color ink - six containers. This provides
    >about 36 refills at a cost of $30 plus shipping - about $1 per refill. Best
    >price for OEM carts at about $10 per cart would be $360. At retail that
    >would amount to about $430. We shouldn't forget the cost of the carts
    >themselves. I'm still using the original carts that came with the printer,
    >some of which have been refilled six or so times and are still working as
    >new. I did buy empty carts recently for about $4 each, and that cost should
    >be factored in if we are really doing close cost accounting. I've had no
    >problems with the printer clogging, skipping, banding, or ink leaking. In
    >about six months I've already saved enough to buy my two printers. It
    >makes sense to me.
    >
    >If you want to buy already filled carts I have read good reviews on this
    >newsgroup about the Alotofthings Arrow carts (not their Rainbow carts) that
    >cost a bit more than $2 apiece on their ebay store. They are filled with
    >Formulabs inks. They also sell Formulab ink in bulk. I am presently happy
    >with the MIS ink and see no reason to change. I may buy a "12 pack" of
    >Alotofthings Arrowjet carts and try them on my wife's printer as a
    >comparison. I have read that these can also be refilled as well.
    >
    >If you haven't gone on Neil Slades site it is worth a read. This is the
    >info that really motivated me to get rid of an Epson in fine working
    >condition, buy the i960, and use the MIS refill inks. the site is
    >http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html
    >
    >The fact is that I can easily afford OEM inks, OEM papers, and any printer I
    >would want to buy. If Neil's info had been incorrect I would be out the
    >cost of a printer - $150 worst case. I decided to go for it just for the
    >fun of beating the system. I am retired, have the time to play with this
    >stuff, and don't like to be intimidated by technology or commercialism. I
    >like to be "hands on" and do as many steps in the process as I am able. It
    >worked out better than that by far as the i960 printer and MIS inks produce
    >gorgeous photos.
    >
    >As evidenced by the number of posts and responses you do on the newsgroup
    >you also have more than enough time on your hands to do this if you wish.
    >Your risk factor, the cost of an ip4000, is about $150 from what I can glean
    >from googling the printer, the same as my first i960. You already own a set
    >of OEM carts that are refillable. for the price of a few syringes, some
    >medical exam gloves, and a set of bulk refill inks, (plus cart plugs from
    >computer friends as recommended by Neil Slade) you can give it a try. If
    >you don't like the colors or feel it is too much work you haven't lost much.
    >I can only tell you that, so far, I haven't destroyed my printer doing
    >refilling.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:MwoVd.2097$C47.932@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Based on your total printing costs for the year, how much do you save
    >>doing all of the work that refilling takes as opposed to just buying the
    >>same ink via MIS generic carts for $5.00 per?
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:emxVd.8762$OU1.4830@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >I believe what you say. I did read Neils article and I have also gone to
    >Alotofthings. I do not especially like to do business on Ebay or get
    >involved with pay pal. I hear that they are targets for hackers and
    >security may be a problem. I write computer programs so I am especially
    >skeptical about security. The hackers are very bright people.

    As I recall, paypal doesn't get enough information from you to do identity
    theft. I have had two instances of credit card fraud over the 44 years I
    have used credit cards. They were low tech cases in which a clerk copied
    the info from my card and charged items on it. My net cost was zero,
    although I had to spend some time working with the credit card company to
    get the charges reversed. A nuisance, but not a disaster.

    > I am very careful about what e commerce sites I do business with.
    >
    > One thing does perplex me about 3rd party inks. The MIS ink carts do not
    > say they are not MIS ink. I find that disturbing. I also do not know if
    > MIS is the mfg of MIS inks. If they are not then if they change suppliers
    > than the inks will be different.

    I called MIS tech support and they were up front on this info. They also
    said that the prefilled cart inks performed the same as theirs, but I am so
    pleased with their product that I wouldn't bother. Although I don't know
    Niel Slade personally I believe he is right that there are inks from a few
    high quality producers that several retailers like MIS repackage and sell.
    Unless the producer of the MIS inks goes out of business or their quality
    slips I would expect that they would continue to sell the same product.

    > I have owned my printer for 5 months and have the original OEM inks. I
    > would probably use not more than 3 sets. Most of my business documents
    > are done on my HP. The draft quality on my 990Cse is better than the
    > Canon standard but slightly slower than the speed of the Canon standard.
    > The Canon draft speed is no contest. My wife uses that to print EMail and
    > driving directions.

    All my text printing is done on an HP5p laser printer that I have used
    without a single glitch for 8 years. If you have a high volume of text
    printing a laser printer is more economical to use. If you are still
    printing from the original carts after 5 months your color print volume may
    not justify refilling. Considering the cost of the refill inks and
    equiptment, however, for the cost of about 4 retail carts you would be in
    the refill business for a very long time!

    > However, I am tempted to look into 3rd party. I do hear that Formulabs
    > ink is good.

    A poster named Taliesyn has responded to several of your posts and routinely
    gives good information and advice. He uses alotofthings carts that have
    Formulabs inks. They are available on their ebay store. They sell two
    different brands of carts and the one you want is the Arrow cart and not the
    Rainbow brand. I emailed them recently and they responded that the Arrow
    carts have Formulabs inks and the Rainbow carts do not.

    > The bottom line on 3rd party inks from what I glean from this newsgroups
    > and other like this is that most people who have printer clogging can
    > trace their problem to 3rd party inks. There are many more Epson problems
    > than Canon and those people who use pigment colorants like those in the
    > Epson R800 really have problems.

    I had an Epson printer (dye based inks and pre-chipped carts) that produced
    nice looking photos, but not of the quality that my i960 does. Eventually I
    did have banding as a result of dried ink buildup under the printhead and
    some minor clogging. I was able to bring it back to excellent function with
    advice from Art Entlich on this forum. I also started exploring purchase of
    a new printer for a variety of reasons and liked Neil Slades info best. The
    fact is that all inkjet printers will eventually clog - often from
    underutilization. Generally they can be unclogged. both Neil Slade and Art
    Entlich have excellent advice for unclogging printers. What I have
    understood from most of the posts that relate third party inks to clogging
    is that the filling technique and/or condition of a cart that has been
    filled several times have a lot to do with what might be perceived as a
    clogged jet. Overfilling, not fully sealing the fill hole, and blockage of
    the vent hole are some of the causes that give the appearance of a clog.
    None of these conditions is usually fatal to the printer or the print head.

    Bottom line - we throw caution to the wind every time we drive a car, walk
    across the street or step into a bathtub! Mechanical devices don't last
    forever. Some people are more cautious than others and are extremely risk
    aversive. Others may take extreme risks where caution would be a better
    approach. I'm not a sky diver or motorcycle rider, but I do drive and will
    fly with a bush pilot in a single engine plane to go fly fishing in a remote
    area. You've certainly gathered enough information to decide, yea or nay,
    about third party inks and/or refilling.
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:emxVd.8762$OU1.4830@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>I believe what you say. I did read Neils article and I have also gone to
    >>Alotofthings. I do not especially like to do business on Ebay or get
    >>involved with pay pal. I hear that they are targets for hackers and
    >>security may be a problem. I write computer programs so I am especially
    >>skeptical about security. The hackers are very bright people.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >As I recall, paypal doesn't get enough information from you to do identity
    >theft. I have had two instances of credit card fraud over the 44 years I
    >have used credit cards. They were low tech cases in which a clerk copied
    >the info from my card and charged items on it. My net cost was zero,
    >although I had to spend some time working with the credit card company to
    >get the charges reversed. A nuisance, but not a disaster.
    >
    >
    >
    >>I am very careful about what e commerce sites I do business with.
    >>
    >>One thing does perplex me about 3rd party inks. The MIS ink carts do not
    >>say they are not MIS ink. I find that disturbing. I also do not know if
    >>MIS is the mfg of MIS inks. If they are not then if they change suppliers
    >>than the inks will be different.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >I called MIS tech support and they were up front on this info. They also
    >said that the prefilled cart inks performed the same as theirs, but I am so
    >pleased with their product that I wouldn't bother.
    >
    I cannot understand why your supplier for MIS does not use MIS in their
    pre-filled cartridges. Just because they say they are as good it would
    be nice to know the brand. I would like to see posts on that. I would
    also like to find a supplier for Formulabs carts other than
    Alotofthings. I find it difficult to get good information on their poor
    Ebay and incomplete corporate websites. I also do not like the fact
    that they actually say they do not want phone calls and they do not take
    orders on the phone.

    I find it difficult that as large a company as Formulabs is, they do not
    have numbers retailers selling their stuff.

    >Although I don't know
    >Niel Slade personally I believe he is right that there are inks from a few
    >high quality producers that several retailers like MIS repackage and sell.
    >
    I would like to know who those few high quality producers are and what
    retailers like MIS are selling to who. I emailed many of these
    retailers asking who their mfg/formulators were. The answers I received
    varied widely and could not be tabulated into those "few high quality
    producers" Neil talks about.

    I certainly would like to see a dozen retailers selling any one of those
    3 high quality producers. Then it would be easy to track information on
    them both positive and negative.

    >
    >Unless the producer of the MIS inks goes out of business or their quality
    >slips I would expect that they would continue to sell the same product.
    >
    >
    >
    >>I have owned my printer for 5 months and have the original OEM inks. I
    >>would probably use not more than 3 sets. Most of my business documents
    >>are done on my HP. The draft quality on my 990Cse is better than the
    >>Canon standard but slightly slower than the speed of the Canon standard.
    >>The Canon draft speed is no contest. My wife uses that to print EMail and
    >>driving directions.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >All my text printing is done on an HP5p laser printer that I have used
    >without a single glitch for 8 years. If you have a high volume of text
    >printing a laser printer is more economical to use.
    >
    I do not have a high volume of text. The computer programs I print
    require the use of a color printer. The keywords, arguments, and
    statements all print in different colors.

    I think one reason you do not have problems with MIS is the sheer volume
    you print. May others who use MIS and print infrequently have some
    problems. I do not know but I would like to hear from them.

    >If you are still
    >printing from the original carts after 5 months your color print volume may
    >not justify refilling. Considering the cost of the refill inks and
    >equiptment, however, for the cost of about 4 retail carts you would be in
    >the refill business for a very long time!
    >
    >
    >
    >>However, I am tempted to look into 3rd party. I do hear that Formulabs
    >>ink is good.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >A poster named Taliesyn has responded to several of your posts and routinely
    >gives good information and advice. He uses alotofthings carts that have
    >Formulabs inks. They are available on their ebay store. They sell two
    >different brands of carts and the one you want is the Arrow cart and not the
    >Rainbow brand. I emailed them recently and they responded that the Arrow
    >carts have Formulabs inks and the Rainbow carts do not.
    >
    >
    >
    >>The bottom line on 3rd party inks from what I glean from this newsgroups
    >>and other like this is that most people who have printer clogging can
    >>trace their problem to 3rd party inks. There are many more Epson problems
    >>than Canon and those people who use pigment colorants like those in the
    >>Epson R800 really have problems.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >I had an Epson printer (dye based inks and pre-chipped carts) that produced
    >nice looking photos, but not of the quality that my i960 does. Eventually I
    >did have banding as a result of dried ink buildup under the printhead and
    >some minor clogging. I was able to bring it back to excellent function with
    >advice from Art Entlich on this forum. I also started exploring purchase of
    >a new printer for a variety of reasons and liked Neil Slades info best. The
    >fact is that all inkjet printers will eventually clog - often from
    >underutilization.
    >
    So far I am fortunate.

    >Generally they can be unclogged. both Neil Slade and Art
    >Entlich have excellent advice for unclogging printers. What I have
    >understood from most of the posts that relate third party inks to clogging
    >is that the filling technique and/or condition of a cart that has been
    >filled several times have a lot to do with what might be perceived as a
    >clogged jet. Overfilling, not fully sealing the fill hole, and blockage of
    >the vent hole are some of the causes that give the appearance of a clog.
    >None of these conditions is usually fatal to the printer or the print head.
    >
    >Bottom line - we throw caution to the wind every time we drive a car, walk
    >across the street or step into a bathtub! Mechanical devices don't last
    >forever. Some people are more cautious than others and are extremely risk
    >aversive. Others may take extreme risks where caution would be a better
    >approach. I'm not a sky diver or motorcycle rider, but I do drive and will
    >fly with a bush pilot in a single engine plane to go fly fishing in a remote
    >area. You've certainly gathered enough information to decide, yea or nay,
    >about third party inks and/or refilling.
    >
    >
    The information I would like are some kind of official results that
    would prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either
    under their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own
    brand they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you
    need to know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in
    your brand of printer and against you printer OEM inks.

    >
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

    > The information I would like are some kind of official results that would
    > prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either under
    > their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own brand
    > they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you need to
    > know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in your brand
    > of printer and against you printer OEM inks.

    Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example look at
    the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands of the same
    appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some cheaper ones from the
    same mfgr may be low end, but some are essentially the same with different
    trim features. Sears appliances (for the most part, good quality) are all
    made by major mfgrs. GM and Ford manufacture cars that are essentially
    twins with different trim features, and the lowest priced Lexus is a
    actually a Toyota Camry with more luxurious trim. The country in which some
    of these cars are manufactured may vary as well. It is, unfortunately, up
    to the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of commerce to be better
    informed. Ecommerce pulls another veil over the consumers' eyes. There are
    individual web sites and forum posts that I have seen that have evaluated
    color balance and fade resistance for several of the major sellers' inks. I
    have not kept the addresses or I would pass them on to you. The one I liked
    best compared half a dozen mfgs inks side by side. The color swatches were
    remarkably similar with some minor differences that would probably not be
    apparent in photos unless shown side by side. With glossy photo paper the
    fade resistance was reasonably similar, but the Canon inks were the best in
    that area. Before I embarked on using MIS inks I did side by side
    comparisons of photos printed with MIS and OEM inks. Really hard to tell
    the difference! With many things there is no sure thing or guarantee.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:
    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>The information I would like are some kind of official results that would
    >>prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either under
    >>their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own brand
    >>they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you need to
    >>know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in your brand
    >>of printer and against you printer OEM inks.
    >
    >
    > Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example look at
    > the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands of the same
    > appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some cheaper ones from the
    > same mfgr may be low end, but some are essentially the same with different
    > trim features. Sears appliances (for the most part, good quality) are all
    > made by major mfgrs. GM and Ford manufacture cars that are essentially
    > twins with different trim features, and the lowest priced Lexus is a
    > actually a Toyota Camry with more luxurious trim. The country in which some
    > of these cars are manufactured may vary as well. It is, unfortunately, up
    > to the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of commerce to be better
    > informed. Ecommerce pulls another veil over the consumers' eyes. There are
    > individual web sites and forum posts that I have seen that have evaluated
    > color balance and fade resistance for several of the major sellers' inks. I
    > have not kept the addresses or I would pass them on to you. The one I liked
    > best compared half a dozen mfgs inks side by side. The color swatches were
    > remarkably similar with some minor differences that would probably not be
    > apparent in photos unless shown side by side. With glossy photo paper the
    > fade resistance was reasonably similar, but the Canon inks were the best in
    > that area. Before I embarked on using MIS inks I did side by side
    > comparisons of photos printed with MIS and OEM inks. Really hard to tell
    > the difference! With many things there is no sure thing or guarantee.
    >


    This past week I printed a color photo for my father using my iP5000,
    fueled with a brand called Vivi Color (Chinese made, filled with US
    Formulabs ink). I then ran off a copy of the same shot with my secondary
    printer, an i860. It's loaded with a new blank set of cartridges I
    filled with ink from Hobbi-Colors. The photos were lovely and I couldn't
    really discern any differences in color. I never bothered hauling out
    the OEM Canon cartridges for a third opinion. I'm pretty well through
    comparing. It wastes a lot of ink, machine and paper needlessly. The
    differences I have seen between brands is mostly negligible. I think
    it's time for more creativity and less comparativity. Did I just invent
    a new word? Yeah, according to my spell checker in my emailer, I did.
    But it rhymes, so consider it creativity!


    Anyone use shadow box frames to display their photos? These are
    natural wood frames with the glass about an inch in front of the photo.
    Literally a glass box! It gives you a kind of 3D look, sort of. I think
    they really add something to the image, much more than a normal frame
    ever could. Hard to explain. It's something you have to see for
    yourselves. The ones I use come from my dollar store. I have expensive
    tastes. The wood is soft and natural finish, so it's dull looking and
    "not suitable for framing". I sand them a bit and stain them, and they
    suddenly look expensive. There's even room for a custom name plate at
    the bottom identifying the photo subject, date and camera used. Photo
    size is about 4.5" x 6". I'll have to look around for some larger ones
    in a real store. :-)

    -Taliesyn
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >
    >>The information I would like are some kind of official results that would
    >>prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either under
    >>their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own brand
    >>they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you need to
    >>know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in your brand
    >>of printer and against you printer OEM inks.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example look at
    >the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands of the same
    >appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some cheaper ones from the
    >same mfgr may be low end, but some are essentially the same with different
    >trim features.
    >
    >Sears appliances (for the most part, good quality) are all
    >made by major mfgrs.
    >
    Yes but in this case information is readily available as to who makes it
    and what the basic differences are.

    >GM and Ford manufacture cars that are essentially
    >twins with different trim features, and the lowest priced Lexus is a
    >actually a Toyota Camry with more luxurious trim.
    >
    Same platform but more than different Trim. A Honda Accord is not the
    same as the Acura TL even though they share the same platform. I have
    both. The TL has a different engine, transmission, suspension, turning
    radius, seat, and many other differences. They do share similar knobs,
    switches and glass. But you know who the manufacture is and who the
    seller is. All are brand names.

    >The country in which some
    >of these cars are manufactured may vary as well. It is, unfortunately, up
    >to the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of commerce to be better
    >informed.
    >

    In the case of cars you do not have a bunch of (not all of them) sleazy
    web retailers hiding behind the Internet trying to hid what they are
    selling and provide the minimum amount of information they can get away
    with. Plus in the case of cars there is a half dozen reputable magazine
    and other agencies that continually review and disclose information to
    the public. One does not have to hunt for it.

    > Ecommerce pulls another veil over the consumers' eyes. There are
    >individual web sites and forum posts that I have seen that have evaluated
    >color balance and fade resistance for several of the major sellers' inks. I
    >have not kept the addresses or I would pass them on to you. The one I liked
    >best compared half a dozen mfgs inks side by side. The color swatches were
    >remarkably similar with some minor differences that would probably not be
    >apparent in photos unless shown side by side. With glossy photo paper the
    >fade resistance was reasonably similar, but the Canon inks were the best in
    >that area. Before I embarked on using MIS inks I did side by side
    >comparisons of photos printed with MIS and OEM inks. Really hard to tell
    >the difference! With many things there is no sure thing or guarantee.
    >
    >
    Does anyone sell prefilled carts using MIS ink. I would also like to
    know the same for Formulabs except for Alotofthings. These are two I
    hear some good things about but I sure would welcome a professional
    comparative review.

    >
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    > Does anyone sell prefilled carts using MIS ink. I would also like to
    > know the same for Formulabs except for Alotofthings. These are two I
    > hear some good things about but I sure would welcome a professional
    > comparative review.
    >

    A "professional comparative review"? ....

    Good grief, Charlie Brown! Why don't you just buy some for yourself and
    test them yourself to see which ones you prefer, and then tell us your
    wise and always thoughtful experiences with them. We appreciate people
    around here who have some hands-on experience. We can't do all your
    thinking for you, and you can't figure out inks using logic alone. Is
    buying an ink cartridge really a major decision in your life?

    Measekite, you're never going to buy a cartridge that isn't made by
    Canon, and you know it.

    -Taliesyn
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Taliesyn - good to hear about the hobicolor inks. I did buy a starter kit
    from them to use their carts. Now I feel comfortable using the ink that
    came in the kit. I bought some frames a few weeks ago from a store in San
    Francisco called Cheap Petes. fI also bought some (more expensive) from
    Aaron Brothers in the SF Bay Area. I believe they both had shadow frames.
    Interesting look. After I finish the two print-and-frame projects I have on
    my desk I think I will buy a few. By the way, your phrase, "it's time for
    more creativity and less comparativity" - Sounds like something from a Cole
    Porter tune!
    "Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:391v6pF55dsntU1@individual.net...
    > Burt wrote:
    >> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>>The information I would like are some kind of official results that would
    >>>prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either under
    >>>their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own brand
    >>>they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you need to
    >>>know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in your brand
    >>>of printer and against you printer OEM inks.
    >>
    >>
    >> Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example look
    >> at the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands of the
    >> same appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some cheaper ones
    >> from the same mfgr may be low end, but some are essentially the same with
    >> different trim features. Sears appliances (for the most part, good
    >> quality) are all made by major mfgrs. GM and Ford manufacture cars that
    >> are essentially twins with different trim features, and the lowest priced
    >> Lexus is a actually a Toyota Camry with more luxurious trim. The country
    >> in which some of these cars are manufactured may vary as well. It is,
    >> unfortunately, up to the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of
    >> commerce to be better informed. Ecommerce pulls another veil over the
    >> consumers' eyes. There are individual web sites and forum posts that I
    >> have seen that have evaluated color balance and fade resistance for
    >> several of the major sellers' inks. I have not kept the addresses or I
    >> would pass them on to you. The one I liked best compared half a dozen
    >> mfgs inks side by side. The color swatches were remarkably similar with
    >> some minor differences that would probably not be apparent in photos
    >> unless shown side by side. With glossy photo paper the fade resistance
    >> was reasonably similar, but the Canon inks were the best in that area.
    >> Before I embarked on using MIS inks I did side by side comparisons of
    >> photos printed with MIS and OEM inks. Really hard to tell the
    >> difference! With many things there is no sure thing or guarantee.
    >
    >
    > This past week I printed a color photo for my father using my iP5000,
    > fueled with a brand called Vivi Color (Chinese made, filled with US
    > Formulabs ink). I then ran off a copy of the same shot with my secondary
    > printer, an i860. It's loaded with a new blank set of cartridges I
    > filled with ink from Hobbi-Colors. The photos were lovely and I couldn't
    > really discern any differences in color. I never bothered hauling out
    > the OEM Canon cartridges for a third opinion. I'm pretty well through
    > comparing. It wastes a lot of ink, machine and paper needlessly. The
    > differences I have seen between brands is mostly negligible. I think
    > it's time for more creativity and less comparativity. Did I just invent
    > a new word? Yeah, according to my spell checker in my emailer, I did. But
    > it rhymes, so consider it creativity!
    >
    >
    > Anyone use shadow box frames to display their photos? These are
    > natural wood frames with the glass about an inch in front of the photo.
    > Literally a glass box! It gives you a kind of 3D look, sort of. I think
    > they really add something to the image, much more than a normal frame
    > ever could. Hard to explain. It's something you have to see for
    > yourselves. The ones I use come from my dollar store. I have expensive
    > tastes. The wood is soft and natural finish, so it's dull looking and
    > "not suitable for framing". I sand them a bit and stain them, and they
    > suddenly look expensive. There's even room for a custom name plate at
    > the bottom identifying the photo subject, date and camera used. Photo
    > size is about 4.5" x 6". I'll have to look around for some larger ones
    > in a real store. :-)
    >
    > -Taliesyn
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    What does this have to do with my question? Good luck on the SAT exam.

    Taliesyn wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >> Does anyone sell prefilled carts using MIS ink. I would also like to
    >> know the same for Formulabs except for Alotofthings. These are two I
    >> hear some good things about but I sure would welcome a professional
    >> comparative review.
    >>
    >
    > A "professional comparative review"? ....
    >
    > Good grief, Charlie Brown! Why don't you just buy some for yourself and
    > test them yourself to see which ones you prefer, and then tell us your
    > wise and always thoughtful experiences with them. We appreciate people
    > around here who have some hands-on experience. We can't do all your
    > thinking for you, and you can't figure out inks using logic alone. Is
    > buying an ink cartridge really a major decision in your life?
    >
    > Measekite, you're never going to buy a cartridge that isn't made by
    > Canon, and you know it.
    >
    > -Taliesyn
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:urMWd.4643$C47.2276@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>>The information I would like are some kind of official results that would
    >>>prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z, either under
    >>>their own brand or with the factory name. If they use their own brand
    >>>they should disclose the factory since this is the criteria you need to
    >>>know, based on market reputation, how the ink will perform in your brand
    >>>of printer and against you printer OEM inks.
    >>>
    >>
    >>Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example look
    >>at the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands of the
    >>same appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some cheaper ones from
    >>the same mfgr may be low end, but some are essentially the same with
    >>different trim features.
    >>Sears appliances (for the most part, good quality) are all made by major
    >>mfgrs.
    > Yes but in this case information is readily available as to who makes it
    > and what the basic differences are.

    NOT from a Sears salesman! Also manufacturers of Sears brand products are
    not shown in their catalogs or ads. You have to read Consumers to see what
    products across brand names are twins. If you have a working relationship
    with an appliance repair person he can tell you, from personal experience,
    which ones are twins and which ones work best and cause the least problems.
    The same can be said for the ink and carts we are discussing - People who
    have had experience using these products are the people I would listen to.
    >
    >>GM and Ford manufacture cars that are essentially twins with different
    >>trim features, and the lowest priced Lexus is a actually a Toyota Camry
    >>with more luxurious trim.
    > Same platform but more than different Trim. A Honda Accord is not the
    > same as the Acura TL even though they share the same platform. I have
    > both. The TL has a different engine, transmission, suspension, turning
    > radius, seat, and many other differences. They do share similar knobs,
    > switches and glass. But you know who the manufacture is and who the
    > seller is. All are brand names.

    I repeat - the Camry and the least expensive Lexus full size sedan were (and
    still may be) twins with very little difference other than a more luxurious
    trimout. Virtually the same engine and transmission. If the suspension was
    different, I actually liked the ride and control of the Camry better! No
    one at the Lexus showroom would tell you that they were virtually the same
    car. Granted, not so with the more expensive Lexus models, but that was
    not the comparison I was making. I had a 1961 vw bug at the same time as I
    was driving a Porsche roadster. Both had air cooled rear engines. End of
    Comparison.

    >>The country in which some of these cars are manufactured may vary as well.
    >>It is, unfortunately, up to the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of
    >>commerce to be better informed.
    >
    > In the case of cars you do not have a bunch of (not all of them) sleazy
    > web retailers hiding behind the Internet trying to hid what they are
    > selling and provide the minimum amount of information they can get away
    > with. Plus in the case of cars there is a half dozen reputable magazine
    > and other agencies that continually review and disclose information to the
    > public. One does not have to hunt for it.

    HAVEN'T you ever met a Sleazy car salesman who would sell you anything on
    wheels? I have also seen conflicting reports in mags that I have a lot of
    faith in with regard to car evaluations. Car and Driver has completely
    different criteria for their evaluations than Consumers, both of which I
    enjoy reading and consider honest magazines. One also has to hunt for the
    info on inks and carts. You have done that. If you had looked at all the
    spec on cars with the intensity that you have with aftermarket inks and
    still been as indecisive with cars as you currently are regarding inks you
    would still be walking and taking public transportation instead of sitting
    behind the wheel of the TL! Nice car, by th way.
    >
    >> Ecommerce pulls another veil over the consumers' eyes. There are
    >> individual web sites and forum posts that I have seen that have evaluated
    >> color balance and fade resistance for several of the major sellers' inks.
    >> I have not kept the addresses or I would pass them on to you. The one I
    >> liked best compared half a dozen mfgs inks side by side. The color
    >> swatches were remarkably similar with some minor differences that would
    >> probably not be apparent in photos unless shown side by side. With
    >> glossy photo paper the fade resistance was reasonably similar, but the
    >> Canon inks were the best in that area. Before I embarked on using MIS
    >> inks I did side by side comparisons of photos printed with MIS and OEM
    >> inks. Really hard to tell the difference! With many things there is
    >> no sure thing or guarantee.
    > Does anyone sell prefilled carts using MIS ink. I would also like to know
    > the same for Formulabs except for Alotofthings. These are two I hear some
    > good things about but I sure would welcome a professional comparative
    > review.

    You may try to find the comparative evaluation that I mentioned in a
    previous post. Not by professional evaluators, but by someone who uses
    these materials . their methodology was unusual - they used a swab to apply
    swatches of color with, as I recall, six products side by side. Not the
    most scientific, controlled study, buy pretty good for a non-professional
    comparison. I think that even a skeptical person such as you would
    appreciate the information this study conveys.
    >>
    >>
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Those are observations; not tests. You need to print with an ink brand
    for about a month or two and not more frequent than once every 7 days.
    At the end of the test let the printer sit for about a month and then
    print again. When a couple of hundred people do the same thing and have
    not trouble then one can discern it has no negative effects on the printer.

    Since the observation PORTION of the test was good, the only thing that
    is left is longevity. Then you need to do the same with the other inks
    in your sample universe.

    I do not expect you to do that. You did just what you should. Take
    your chances and what ever happens happens (to your printer) My
    interest in 3rd party inks is similar to Burts. I just do not want to
    afford Canon inks if I feel comfortable with a good alternative. Right
    now I do not print enough to justify other than OEM inks but that may
    change and I want to be ready.

    Taliesyn wrote:

    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:EiKWd.4599$C47.3591@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>> The information I would like are some kind of official results that
    >>> would prove that sellers A<B<C<D<E<etc sell producer X, Y and Z,
    >>> either under their own brand or with the factory name. If they use
    >>> their own brand they should disclose the factory since this is the
    >>> criteria you need to know, based on market reputation, how the ink
    >>> will perform in your brand of printer and against you printer OEM inks.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Unfortunately the marketplace doesn't work that way! For an example
    >> look at the kitchen appliance market. Some mfgrs make several brands
    >> of the same appliance with different brand labels afixed. Some
    >> cheaper ones from the same mfgr may be low end, but some are
    >> essentially the same with different trim features. Sears appliances
    >> (for the most part, good quality) are all made by major mfgrs. GM
    >> and Ford manufacture cars that are essentially twins with different
    >> trim features, and the lowest priced Lexus is a actually a Toyota
    >> Camry with more luxurious trim. The country in which some of these
    >> cars are manufactured may vary as well. It is, unfortunately, up to
    >> the consumer to "look behind the curtain" of commerce to be better
    >> informed. Ecommerce pulls another veil over the consumers' eyes.
    >> There are individual web sites and forum posts that I have seen that
    >> have evaluated color balance and fade resistance for several of the
    >> major sellers' inks. I have not kept the addresses or I would pass
    >> them on to you. The one I liked best compared half a dozen mfgs inks
    >> side by side. The color swatches were remarkably similar with some
    >> minor differences that would probably not be apparent in photos
    >> unless shown side by side. With glossy photo paper the fade
    >> resistance was reasonably similar, but the Canon inks were the best
    >> in that area. Before I embarked on using MIS inks I did side by side
    >> comparisons of photos printed with MIS and OEM inks. Really hard to
    >> tell the difference! With many things there is no sure thing or
    >> guarantee.
    >
    >
    >
    > This past week I printed a color photo for my father using my iP5000,
    > fueled with a brand called Vivi Color (Chinese made, filled with US
    > Formulabs ink). I then ran off a copy of the same shot with my secondary
    > printer, an i860. It's loaded with a new blank set of cartridges I
    > filled with ink from Hobbi-Colors. The photos were lovely and I couldn't
    > really discern any differences in color. I never bothered hauling out
    > the OEM Canon cartridges for a third opinion. I'm pretty well through
    > comparing. It wastes a lot of ink, machine and paper needlessly. The
    > differences I have seen between brands is mostly negligible. I think
    > it's time for more creativity and less comparativity. Did I just invent
    > a new word? Yeah, according to my spell checker in my emailer, I did.
    > But it rhymes, so consider it creativity!
    >
    >
    > Anyone use shadow box frames to display their photos? These are
    > natural wood frames with the glass about an inch in front of the photo.
    > Literally a glass box! It gives you a kind of 3D look, sort of. I think
    > they really add something to the image, much more than a normal frame
    > ever could. Hard to explain. It's something you have to see for
    > yourselves. The ones I use come from my dollar store. I have expensive
    > tastes. The wood is soft and natural finish, so it's dull looking and
    > "not suitable for framing". I sand them a bit and stain them, and they
    > suddenly look expensive. There's even room for a custom name plate at
    > the bottom identifying the photo subject, date and camera used. Photo
    > size is about 4.5" x 6". I'll have to look around for some larger ones
    > in a real store. :-)
    >
    > -Taliesyn
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >
    > You may try to find the comparative evaluation that I mentioned in a
    > previous post. Not by professional evaluators, but by someone who uses
    > these materials . their methodology was unusual - they used a swab to apply
    > swatches of color with, as I recall, six products side by side. Not the
    > most scientific, controlled study, buy pretty good for a non-professional
    > comparison. I think that even a skeptical person such as you would
    > appreciate the information this study conveys.
    >

    I've seen those same "swab tests". They were interesting but I can't
    accept them, as you indicated they're not scientific. A swab is not not
    a print. There's no way to control how much ink you apply. Had they been
    printed boxes of colors they'd have some merit. Interesting that
    Formulabs wasn't one that was tested.

    -Taliesyn
  31. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    > Those are observations; not tests.

    It was a test to me to see if the colors were close.

    > You need to print with an ink brand for about a month or two and not more frequent than once every 7 days.
    > At the end of the test let the printer sit for about a month and then
    > print again.

    What am I going to use to print for the next month, a typewriter?
    The thought of it petrifies me :-)

    > When a couple of hundred people do the same thing and have
    > not trouble then one can discern it has no negative effects on the printer.

    So after we test it for you on our printers, you'll figure it's safe
    enough to finally take the big plunge?

    >
    > Since the observation PORTION of the test was good, the only thing that
    > is left is longevity. Then you need to do the same with the other inks
    > in your sample universe.
    >
    > I do not expect you to do that. You did just what you should. Take
    > your chances and what ever happens happens (to your printer)
    >

    Exactly. I'm not PC-TEST INC..... I've got a life to get on with. I buy
    a printer, or two. I think it's very prudent to have two printers
    around, they tend to go with little warning (I had a head go, a feed
    mechanism go, etc.). And they're pretty dirt cheap these days. And
    another bonus, I found I can print photos simultaneously on both
    printers! I buy inks, sometimes run the printers hard, printing hundreds
    of pages at the very highest resolution non-stop (for my special
    projects). If a printhead goes I buy a new one. That's life. There's no
    way for me to know if I killed the printhead with heavy printing, the
    ink did me in, or there was some manufacturing defect in the print head.
    You can get a new printhead for your printer for $55 US on eBay. A set
    of Canon cartridges will set you back more. The money I save with the
    inks I use will pay for a new printhead many times over. And I don't
    care for 100% color match (you can adjust color) or longevity. I won't
    be around forever, and from what I've seen, color differences are only
    minimal. Lighten up, loosen up; you're getting yourself in a tizzy for
    nothing. It's a damn appliance, not a Lexus. Get yourself some ink and
    stop bustin' your balls about it and print somethin', already. I've
    been buying 3rd party cartridges and refilling since about 1997. I
    really do have a bit of knowledge about the inks out there. They're
    safer than you fear.

    -Taliesyn
  32. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Taliesyn wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >> Those are observations; not tests.
    >
    >
    > It was a test to me to see if the colors were close.

    Nothing was measured but just observered.

    >
    >
    >> You need to print with an ink brand for about a month or two and not
    >> more frequent than once every 7 days. At the end of the test let the
    >> printer sit for about a month and then print again.
    >
    >
    > What am I going to use to print for the next month, a typewriter?
    > The thought of it petrifies me :-)
    >
    I did not ask you do test,. I think there is a case for fair
    independent comparative evaluations done my various magazines.

    >> When a couple of hundred people do the same thing and have not
    >> trouble then one can discern it has no negative effects on the printer.
    >
    >
    > So after we test it for you on our printers, you'll figure it's safe
    > enough to finally take the big plunge?

    Read above

    >
    >>
    >> Since the observation PORTION of the test was good, the only thing
    >> that is left is longevity. Then you need to do the same with the
    >> other inks in your sample universe.
    >>
    >> I do not expect you to do that. You did just what you should. Take
    >> your chances and what ever happens happens (to your printer)
    >>
    >
    > Exactly. I'm not PC-TEST INC..... I've got a life to get on with. I buy
    > a printer, or two. I think it's very prudent to have two printers
    > around, they tend to go with little warning (I had a head go, a feed
    > mechanism go, etc.). And they're pretty dirt cheap these days. And
    > another bonus, I found I can print photos simultaneously on both
    > printers! I buy inks, sometimes run the printers hard, printing hundreds
    > of pages at the very highest resolution non-stop (for my special
    > projects). If a printhead goes I buy a new one.

    Sometimes that is 75% the cost of a new printer. A head for an IP4000
    is $75.00. I saw ut at Frys for a net of $100 after a $30 instant
    rebate and a $20 rebate from Canon. Since a head is $75.00 and a set of
    cartridges is $55.00 totaling $130.00, that means that your were paid
    $30.00 to take the remainder of a new printer. A new print head should
    not be taken lightly.

    > That's life. There's no
    > way for me to know if I killed the printhead with heavy printing, the
    > ink did me in, or there was some manufacturing defect in the print head.
    > You can get a new printhead for your printer for $55 US on eBay.

    Do not like eBay. How about other sources?

    > A set
    > of Canon cartridges will set you back more. The money I save with the
    > inks I use will pay for a new printhead many times over.

    If you print that much it is justifiable.

    > And I don't care for 100% color match (you can adjust color) or
    > longevity. I won't be around forever, and from what I've seen, color
    > differences are only minimal. Lighten up, loosen up; you're getting
    > yourself in a tizzy for
    > nothing. It's a damn appliance, not a Lexus. Get yourself some ink and
    > stop bustin' your balls about it and print somethin', already. I've
    > been buying 3rd party cartridges and refilling since about 1997. I
    > really do have a bit of knowledge about the inks out there. They're
    > safer than you fear.

    Why are many many more people have many many more problems with them
    than with OEM carts? I THINK the explanation is that there is a
    divergent difference in quality and compatability between them and
    currently them marketplace does not lend itself to sorting out the
    information. The industry needs branded 2nd tier manufacturers or at
    the least refillers just like there were in the PC industry.

    >
    > -Taliesyn
  33. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    > Taliesyn wrote:
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Taliesyn wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> measekite wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Those are observations; not tests.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> It was a test to me to see if the colors were close.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Nothing was measured but just observered.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Do you measure color or compare it? I observed with my eyes that they
    >> were "identical" (couldn't tell the difference) in color variation. How
    >> close do I need them - 100%, or will 99% do?
    >>
    >> Do you honestly expect any 3rd party cartridge to be 100%. Get a
    >> life!
    >>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> You need to print with an ink brand for about a month or two and
    >>>>> not more frequent than once every 7 days. At the end of the test
    >>>>> let the printer sit for about a month and then print again.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> What am I going to use to print for the next month, a typewriter?
    >>>> The thought of it petrifies me :-)
    >>>>
    >>> I did not ask you do test,. I think there is a case for fair
    >>> independent comparative evaluations done my various magazines.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It's just too huge an undertaking for any magazine. Lab tests and
    >> analysis alone will cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    >> Resign yourself to the fact that you will have to test them yourself.
    >
    >
    > They are already testing Printers. They could easily expand that to
    > include branded and non-branded inks.
    >

    Printers you and I can test at home, no skill required. Inks need
    to be sent for chemical analyses to see how close they come to Canon.
    There are more chemical test involved, longevity issues... and just
    the whole complexity of the problem is way more trouble than its
    worth to any magazine. They already test printers, he says. You and I
    could satisfactorily test any printer and the result wouldn't be
    much different from those very basic, elementary magazine reviews
    you used to buy your printer.

    -Taliesyn
  34. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Just out of curiosity, what is the reason you don't want to order from
    alotofthings.com? I've used them for over two years and have been totally
    satisfied. The prices and service are excellent. Their web site has
    excellent support information although they don't have an online ordering
    function at this point, but why is that a problem? Their eBay store works
    fine. I've spoken with Joe and discussed some of the complaints I've read
    here about him not shipping outside the US. He has encountered too many
    problems with delayed deliveries due to customs that he didn't feel he could
    provide the level of customer service that his US customers have come to
    expect. Since there already suppliers outside the US selling Formulabs ink,
    he felt that it would be better to concentrate on serving this market. A
    set of cartridges or bulk ink from them is quite inexpensive so why is it
    such a problem for you? I don't know if you use eBay that much, but if you
    are familiar with the feedback function take a look at what the users are
    saying. If that doesn't reassure you, then I don't think anything will.
    --
    Ron Cohen

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7y5Xd.12309$Pz7.5496@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

    ><snipped>

    Currently, I do not want to refill cartridges but I am open to using 3rd
    > party prefilled cartridges from (if I could find a supplier other than
    > Alotofthings) Formulabs or Dyson when I print enough to justify saving
    > $4.00 per cartridge. My cost for Canon carts at Costco is $9.00 and I
    > shop there on a regular basis. Unfortunately, the prefilled at MSI is not
    > MSI ink at per Burt. I also do not know who the manufacturer of MSI ink
    > really is. I also would like to find out if Hobbi Color using a specific
    > brand of ink.
    >
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