FS2004 - GPS/APP

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Newb here...

NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the glide
slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular to the
NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use APP, it
throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.

Any ideas or am I stuck with altitude (glide slope) manually? I kinda like
how easy FS98 was in that respect.
12 answers Last reply
More about fs2004
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    news:Xns96B0BAF9E3CD3wpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    >
    >
    > Newb here...
    >
    > NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the
    > glide
    > slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular to the
    > NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use APP, it
    > throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.

    The glide slope can only be flown by the autopilot in NAV mode, not GPS
    mode. Set the Nav1 frequency to the ILS frequency, press the APP button and
    it is ready for glideslope intercept. The GPS is only intended as a
    secondary reference when flying an ILS.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote in
    news:JNudnXEo5YFmwGDfRVn-jg@comcast.com:

    >
    > "W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    > news:Xns96B0BAF9E3CD3wpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    >>
    >>
    >> Newb here...
    >>
    >> NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the
    >> glide
    >> slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular
    >> to the NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use
    >> APP, it throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.
    >
    > The glide slope can only be flown by the autopilot in NAV mode, not
    > GPS mode. Set the Nav1 frequency to the ILS frequency, press the APP
    > button and it is ready for glideslope intercept. The GPS is only
    > intended as a secondary reference when flying an ILS.
    >
    >
    >

    You know, I did all that and made sure that NAV was selected. Even made
    sure to aquire the glide slope from beneath. Pfft.

    It just wants to take a nose dive everytime! I know I must be doing
    something wrong but I just can't figure it out.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    news:Xns96B1875BADBBEwpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    > "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote in
    > news:JNudnXEo5YFmwGDfRVn-jg@comcast.com:
    >
    >>
    >> "W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns96B0BAF9E3CD3wpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Newb here...
    >>>
    >>> NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the
    >>> glide
    >>> slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular
    >>> to the NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use
    >>> APP, it throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.
    >>
    >> The glide slope can only be flown by the autopilot in NAV mode, not
    >> GPS mode. Set the Nav1 frequency to the ILS frequency, press the APP
    >> button and it is ready for glideslope intercept. The GPS is only
    >> intended as a secondary reference when flying an ILS.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    > You know, I did all that and made sure that NAV was selected. Even made
    > sure to aquire the glide slope from beneath. Pfft.
    >
    > It just wants to take a nose dive everytime! I know I must be doing
    > something wrong but I just can't figure it out.
    >
    >

    OK, try this, having NAV selected in Autopilot is possibly your problem.

    So-----

    NAV/GPS switch to NAV. Autopilot has HDG and ALT selected (AP NAV is NOT
    selected). Be sure the AP altitude you are flying is below GS--you did say
    you were doing this, but always double check.

    Select APP in the autopilot panel when on the ILS intercept heading

    When intercepting the LOC, the HDG light should go out automatically

    When intercepting the GS, ALT light should go out. Be sure aircraft is in
    approach configuration. Aircraft may oscillate some when attempting to
    capture the GS--be sure you are stabilized at approach airspeed and are not
    too heavy.

    HTH,
    Paul
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    W Pepper wrote:
    > "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote in
    > news:JNudnXEo5YFmwGDfRVn-jg@comcast.com:
    >
    >
    >>"W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    >>news:Xns96B0BAF9E3CD3wpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    >>
    >>>
    >>>Newb here...
    >>>
    >>>NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the
    >>>glide
    >>>slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular
    >>>to the NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use
    >>>APP, it throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.
    >>
    >>The glide slope can only be flown by the autopilot in NAV mode, not
    >>GPS mode. Set the Nav1 frequency to the ILS frequency, press the APP
    >>button and it is ready for glideslope intercept. The GPS is only
    >>intended as a secondary reference when flying an ILS.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > You know, I did all that and made sure that NAV was selected. Even made
    > sure to aquire the glide slope from beneath. Pfft.
    >
    > It just wants to take a nose dive everytime! I know I must be doing
    > something wrong but I just can't figure it out.
    >
    >
    I'm not an expert on this, but I have had similar problems. Could it be
    caused by lack of disabling the ALT button? I dont know wether it is
    needed to switch it off...
    Cheers
    Klaus
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    No, not at all. Try the following setup: Fly on a 30° intercept angle to hit
    the LOC approx. 10 NM out at 2500 ft. AGL (Above Ground Level). Do this in
    HDG and ALT mode (both lights illuminating) at a reasonable speed. For a
    B737 I would recommend flaps set to 5 and speed around 190 KTS. When at the
    intercept heading arm the APPR button and check light is illuminating. As
    soon as LOC is intercepted you will notice the HDG light to go out and when
    intercepting the GP the ALT light will go out. That's the moment where you
    are in full ILS mode. (Uhmm, be sure you select an RWY with full ILS, not
    LOC only!!). Drop now the gear and select flaps stepwise until full reducing
    the approach speed accordingly to around 135 KTS (for mid weights). When
    nicely established at speed and attitude switch the A/P off and continue on
    the Flight Director (Keep the bars always centered, that's exactly what the
    A/P does....) and land your ship on that piece of concrete straight
    ahead......
    It does sound easy, doesn't it? ;-))))
    --
    Oskar Wagner
    (retired Captain)

    Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

    "Klaus" <klaus@anywhere.righthere> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:42fe4000$0$61495$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk...
    >
    >
    > W Pepper wrote:
    >> "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote in
    >> news:JNudnXEo5YFmwGDfRVn-jg@comcast.com:
    >>>"W Pepper" <wpepper@daytonairplanecorp> wrote in message
    >>>news:Xns96B0BAF9E3CD3wpepperdaytonairplan@216.196.97.131...
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Newb here...
    >>>>
    >>>>NAV seems to be a-ok after setting NAV1 freq., but I kinda wanted the
    >>>>glide
    >>>>slope to pull me in as well... I thought the APP switch was simular
    >>>>to the NAV switch but included glide slope as well. Each time I use
    >>>>APP, it throws me into a nose dive when my gps finally aquires.
    >>>
    >>>The glide slope can only be flown by the autopilot in NAV mode, not
    >>>GPS mode. Set the Nav1 frequency to the ILS frequency, press the APP
    >>>button and it is ready for glideslope intercept. The GPS is only
    >>>intended as a secondary reference when flying an ILS.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> You know, I did all that and made sure that NAV was selected. Even made
    >> sure to aquire the glide slope from beneath. Pfft.
    >>
    >> It just wants to take a nose dive everytime! I know I must be doing
    >> something wrong but I just can't figure it out.
    >>
    >>
    > I'm not an expert on this, but I have had similar problems. Could it be
    > caused by lack of disabling the ALT button? I dont know wether it is
    > needed to switch it off...
    > Cheers
    > Klaus
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi there.

    There is an important missing feature on the EFIS Panels of FS 2004.

    In APP mode, when the ILS captures Localizer and/or Glide Slope it
    shoud be shown on the top of attitude indicator by LOC and GS sign in
    the green color.

    Also in the 737 Aircraft, does'nt work properly the APP function
    regarding Glide Slope system.

    Ciao ;)
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Thank you for your right explanetion.
    Also thank you for link Eaglesoft: very interesting for more aircraft.

    Regarding B737 autopilot I will try (with my bad english) to be more
    specific about abnormal functionality: when we are going to establish
    on ILS, APP autopilot captures LOC signal so the A/P HEADING light it
    switched off. The GS indicator on the attidude instrument start in then
    central position so APP A/P captures the GS signal too, but is not
    effectively true: in effect after few seconds the GS indicator go up
    (indicating we are in the correct altitude UNDER glide slope to be
    captured). So result that ALT light is OFF (as the correct GS is
    captured) but in effect we are not in right glide. So I must set on
    then ALT A/P and wait then second capture.

    For two time I risked crash ... just the cross control from altitude
    and distance from airport lead me to understand I was under the MDA.

    ;) Ciao e grazie for everithing.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Thank you Oskar for your precious councils and for the very interesting
    links on the A/C web sites.

    See you soon.

    Marco
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ciao Zio Marco
    It is a well known fact that the default A/C have a very basic autopilot
    system. Also the panel layouts are very simple and not reflecting the "true"
    panel of the selected A/C. But don't forget that MSFS is a GAME which should
    make it as easy as possible for all non-flyiers to handle an A/C within a
    reasonable time inorder to have as much fun as possible... ;-)
    If you are looking for realisting A/C with regard to panel layout AND flight
    dynamics I can recomment you the following: (however payware...but be sure
    you will get the most out of your money)

    Citation X by Eaglesoft http://www.eaglesoftdg1.com/
    B737 by PMDG. Sorry I don't have the link at present but I'm sure someone
    else can provide you this.
    These two A/C represent the state-of-the-art when it comes to accuracy for
    panel layout and general realism.

    Regarding your remark on the B737 autopilot you should be a bit more
    specific to explain the deficiency you noted. The FSMS autopilot has full
    ILS capabilities (no autoland however) but it might be necessary to use a
    specific procedure to have it working properly.
    --
    Oskar Wagner
    (retired Captain)

    Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

    "Zio Marco" <marcoparpaglioni@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1124016079.356459.236490@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Hi there.
    >
    > There is an important missing feature on the EFIS Panels of FS 2004.
    >
    > In APP mode, when the ILS captures Localizer and/or Glide Slope it
    > shoud be shown on the top of attitude indicator by LOC and GS sign in
    > the green color.
    >
    > Also in the 737 Aircraft, does'nt work properly the APP function
    > regarding Glide Slope system.
    >
    > Ciao ;)
    >
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:53:25 +0200, "Oskar Wagner"
    <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

    >Ciao Zio Marco
    >It is a well known fact that the default A/C have a very basic autopilot
    >system. Also the panel layouts are very simple and not reflecting the "true"
    >panel of the selected A/C. But don't forget that MSFS is a GAME which should
    >make it as easy as possible for all non-flyiers to handle an A/C within a
    >reasonable time inorder to have as much fun as possible... ;-)
    >If you are looking for realisting A/C with regard to panel layout AND flight
    >dynamics I can recomment you the following: (however payware...but be sure
    >you will get the most out of your money)
    >
    >Citation X by Eaglesoft http://www.eaglesoftdg1.com/
    >B737 by PMDG. Sorry I don't have the link at present but I'm sure someone
    >else can provide you this.
    >These two A/C represent the state-of-the-art when it comes to accuracy for
    >panel layout and general realism.
    >
    >Regarding your remark on the B737 autopilot you should be a bit more
    >specific to explain the deficiency you noted. The FSMS autopilot has full
    >ILS capabilities (no autoland however) but it might be necessary to use a
    >specific procedure to have it working properly.

    In addition,the Flight 1 ATR-72 is used by many ATPs that fly that
    aircraft for a living.


    http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=atr1


    Another aircraft that is flown by Pro Pilots is the Aeroworx B-200
    King Air.


    http://www.aeroworx.com/b200.html

    Bob
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Marco
    Yes, this is a common mistake in MSFS. If you are established on LOC and the
    GS signal is not yet valid, it results in the GS indicator to be centered
    and thus - as you observed correctly - a capture will occur although not
    actually established on GS. I can't tell you where this error comes from as
    a) it doesn't happen on all airports and b) according to AFCAD files there's
    no difference in range for LOC and GP (in Real Life it is...). But it
    happened to me also a few times, mostly when establishing far out. So as the
    only remedy I would propose to aim for an intercept point 9-10 NM out at
    2500 ft AGL (Above Ground Level). That usually works fine.
    Happy flying.. :-))
    Btw: Here's the link for a PMDG 737 purchase
    http://www.pcaviator.com/shop/viewCategory.php?s=0&c=16
    I can also recommend the A330/340 package as far as it concerns
    functionality of panels and FMGC. The fly-by-wire simulation is
    unfortunately no as it could and should be but still very nice to fly. The
    handling of FMGC vs. Flight Guidance on Airbuses is much simpler than on
    Boeing's but that's a philosophical question that has been discussed here
    many, many times........;-)) (and almost everyone here knows that I did
    several thousand flying hours on Airbuses .. :-D )

    Oskar Wagner
    (retired Captain)

    Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

    "Zio Marco" <marcoparpaglioni@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:1124032454.326404.87230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    > Thank you for your right explanetion.
    > Also thank you for link Eaglesoft: very interesting for more aircraft.
    >
    > Regarding B737 autopilot I will try (with my bad english) to be more
    > specific about abnormal functionality: when we are going to establish
    > on ILS, APP autopilot captures LOC signal so the A/P HEADING light it
    > switched off. The GS indicator on the attidude instrument start in then
    > central position so APP A/P captures the GS signal too, but is not
    > effectively true: in effect after few seconds the GS indicator go up
    > (indicating we are in the correct altitude UNDER glide slope to be
    > captured). So result that ALT light is OFF (as the correct GS is
    > captured) but in effect we are not in right glide. So I must set on
    > then ALT A/P and wait then second capture.
    >
    > For two time I risked crash ... just the cross control from altitude
    > and distance from airport lead me to understand I was under the MDA.
    >
    > ;) Ciao e grazie for everithing.
    >
  12. You must program in the course. Try this: as you turn onto the last heading given by ATC, make sure you near the target alt and make sure heading is on. Set the ILS frequency for the runway in nav1 and make sure nav1 bubble is checked. Youll hear the morse. Now make sure nav/gps and set to nav and make sure you enter the course of the runway (listed where you found the ILS freq) in the course box, NOT the heading. Click app with the heading and alt buttons lit and the heading will turn off as it turns to intercept the app course and then the alt will pop off as you hit the outer matker and the plane will land itself.
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