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Upgrading System - Have questions regaurding Dual-Core.

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May 17, 2006 2:44:01 AM

I want to upgrade for as little money as possible, while having the ability to expand in the future.
Here's what I've found:

Graphics Card:
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/nx7600gst2d256.html

Motherboard:
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/a8n32slideluxe1.html

Processor:
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/ada4200bvbox.html (Duel-Core)
or
http://store.yahoo.com/directron/ada4000bnbox.html (Single-Core)

This will get me away with about $700 -not too too bad. All my memory and other stuff I can move over no problem.

My question, is what is the difference between the processors? They cost the same, and the duel core is 2.2ghz, where the single core is 2.4ghz. Thats the only difference I can see, but there MUST be something else!

Also, what is the performance difference between duel and single core? Ie/ if I buy a game in the future that requires a 2.4ghz processor, am I better off with the 2.2 duel, or 2.4 single?

So confused!

Also, the Pentium D 805 was written up as the best Duel Core chip for the price (~$130), but I've read it isn't too good at games. Any feedback on this chip?

I wish to upgrade for Neverwinter Nights 2, as well as other next-gen type games like Oblivion and Star Trek Legacies as well.

Any feedback is much appreciated.
May 17, 2006 4:04:10 AM

If your more into games then the amd is at this time still on top.
but the money saved on the 805 dual core will afford you the better graphics card. say 7900gtx or 7900 gt ko
overclocking this chip should be a breeze on air with a quallity mobo with decent ram. for upgrade futures its a crapshoot for core 2 cpus.
if your not going to oc that chip then opt for amd or D950.
a c 473 à CPUs
May 17, 2006 4:31:26 AM

Quote:

My question, is what is the difference between the processors? They cost the same, and the duel core is 2.2ghz, where the single core is 2.4ghz. Thats the only difference I can see, but there MUST be something else!

Also, what is the performance difference between duel and single core? Ie/ if I buy a game in the future that requires a 2.4ghz processor, am I better off with the 2.2 duel, or 2.4 single?

So confused!



The difference between the two processors is that one is single core and the other is dual core inside the chip itself. The X2 4200+ will split the load onto each core so that you can do two intensive CPU processes at the same time. Say you want to play a game, but you also want to convert a DVD to a DivX file. If you had just one core you would have to choose which one you wanted to do first. With a dual core you can do both at the same time.

Regarding games, if you play a game that does not take advantage of dual core then the X2 will act as just one single core CPU running at 2.2GHz. Therefore, it is possible that games will run faster on the Athlon 64 4000+. But dual core games are out and more will come out. Oblivion takes advantage of the dual core, but that doesn't mean it will run twice as fast. Other games are FarCry, Doom 3, Quake 4. There is at least 15 games that are dual core. Just do a Google search on "Dual Core Games".

If you want the fastest gaming option for today then get the single core. If you want as fast gaming option for today and faster for tomorrow, then get the X2 4200+ dual core CPU.

The Asus A8N SLI Premium is a good motherboard. That was my chosen mobo before I decided to wait for Conroe to come out. But let me ask you a question. Why are you buying it?

1. If you want it because of the "cool" heatpipes for a silent motherboard, then you are spending a lot of money for that feature you can probably save yourself about $50 for a less expensive board and slap on a Zalman ZM-NB47J Northbridge Chipset Heatsink
which is quite effect at cooling the chipset.

2. If you are thinking SLI then all I can say is that SLI for a weak card doesn't make any sense. You can simply buy a faster card in the future and sell the older card. SLI makes more sense for the 7900GT or GTX because at that performance level, there isn't really much of an option to buy a faster card since you already have the top dog. The only way to increase performance is to add another card.

The 7600GS you selected is weak. Get the XFX GeForce 7600GT PCI-E instead using the money you saved on a cheaper non-SLI motherboard. The 7600GT is currently on sale for $178. By the time you want to upgrade your GPU the next generation will be out and you will get better bang for your buck.

Similar to dual core CPUs, having an SLI GPU set will not double the performance. It's more like 0% - 40% depending on the game, and depending on which versions of the cards you are using.

Why use www.Directron.com when www.Newegg.com offers better prices if you are up for putting your rig together. For example, Newegg sells the X2 4200+ for $357 shipped, while Directron sell it for $366 + shipping charges. That will be a savings of at least $12 right there. A 7600GT is cheaper at Newegg.com, this card is $155 shipped after a 420 mail-in rebate. Compare that to the least expensive 7600GT at Directron for $178 + shipping. Right there is another savings of at least $25.
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May 17, 2006 1:11:53 PM

Quote:

If you want the fastest gaming option for today then get the single core. If you want as fast gaming option for today and faster for tomorrow, then get the X2 4200+ dual core CPU.

2. If you are thinking SLI then all I can say is that SLI for a weak card doesn't make any sense. You can simply buy a faster card in the future and sell the older card. SLI makes more sense for the 7900GT or GTX because at that performance level, there isn't really much of an option to buy a faster card since you already have the top dog. The only way to increase performance is to add another card.

The 7600GS you selected is weak. Get the XFX GeForce 7600GT PCI-E instead using the money you saved on a cheaper non-SLI motherboard. The 7600GT is currently on sale for $178. By the time you want to upgrade your GPU the next generation will be out and you will get better bang for your buck.

Why use www.Directron.com when www.Newegg.com offers better prices if you are up for putting your rig together. For example, Newegg sells the X2 4200+ for $357 shipped, while Directron sell it for $366 + shipping charges. That will be a savings of at least $12 right there. A 7600GT is cheaper at Newegg.com, this card is $155 shipped after a 420 mail-in rebate. Compare that to the least expensive 7600GT at Directron for $178 + shipping. Right there is another savings of at least $25.


You were so helpful, thank you!

Here's what I'm looking for. I want the most affordable gaming I can get for today, with the option of upgrading to dual-core and SLI down the road. So the motherboard is key, then I can just fit the most affordable pieces currently into the motherboard, and a year down the line, I can have the option of buying 2 sli cards, and a dual-core chip. I'm definatly going to check out the motherboard you reccomended (Asus A8N SLI Premium, was it?), I've had Asus, A-bit, Intel, and MSI motherboards in the past, and of them I've liked the MSI and Asus best.

The 7600GS I selected is weak, but it beats my current Radeon 9600, and as I was saying, I'm just looking for an affordable upgrade right now. I'll check out your reccomendation (XFX GeForce 7600GT PCI-E).

I chose Directron for a few reasons. First is cause I've used them a lot in the past and have saved up coupons for them, and with those the final price came out a bit cheaper than newegg. Second, loyalty. I've been using Directron for years, though, I have ordered from newegg in the past and do appreciate them, I simply have more coupons for Directron :) 

Again, thanks for your reccomendations, I appreciate it.

Edit:
I'm still having trouble deciding between a Dual-Core or Single-Core to start with. NWN2 does support Dual-Core CPUs, but will my other games be lacking if they do not support Dual-Core? I think I am going to go with your reccomendation on the Motherboard, and I did find an OEM version at newegg for less than $100. I'm comfortable buying it because I know what I'm doing, but I'm still deciding on the video card and processor. I am liking this proccessor so far: AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 2000mhz
May 17, 2006 1:55:10 PM

Dual core is the future. The P'D 805 is a piece of crap unless you overclock, by the way. If you want to get a good deal, there's your best bet. The 3800/4000 etc single cores are plenty powerful, but will lack punch for Vista when it comes around. Also, most games have really pathetic dual core support to answer your question.
a c 473 à CPUs
May 17, 2006 3:17:36 PM

Quote:
I'm still having trouble deciding between a Dual-Core or Single-Core to start with. NWN2 does support Dual-Core CPUs, but will my other games be lacking if they do not support Dual-Core?


Since NWN2 does support dual core CPUs the X2 4200+ should run it faster than the single core 4000+. However, the improvement in performance will depend on how optimized it is for dual cores, therefore you may see a 0% - 40% increase in performance.

Your other games that do not take advantage of dual core will run slower on the X2 4200+. compared to the 4000+, but not by too much. As I stated before, there are currently at least 15 games that takes advantage of dual core, and more will be coming out. More importantly you can do more than one intensive task at the same time. It's better to go for a dual core CPU.

Quote:
I think I am going to go with your reccomendation on the Motherboard, and I did find an OEM version at newegg for less than $100. I'm comfortable buying it because I know what I'm doing, but I'm still deciding on the video card and processor.


Actually I made a mistake, I thought you were going to buy the A8N-SLI Premium, not the A8N32-SLI Deluxe. While the A8N-SLI Premium is cheaper, I was actually arguing against going an SLI motherboard because in my opinion it is simply not worth going with such a setup unless you will be buying a very power GeForce 7900GT or GTX. Getting a SLI setup for lesser cards doesn't really make much sense because by the time you want add another card, newer cards will be coming out that is more powerful at nearly the same price. Remember SLI will not double your performance, it's more like 10% - 40% depending on the game. But since you found an OEM version for cheaper then that's okay.

Quote:

I am liking this proccessor so far: AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 2000mhz


It's good, but if you can afford to spend more then buying a X2 3800+ or X2 4200+ is better for the future.
May 17, 2006 3:52:52 PM

The A8N-Premium as well as Vanilla are crap. Only the A8N32 is good, which is insanely expensive.
May 17, 2006 4:17:44 PM

So, which are the good motherboards?

A9N32 SLI Deluxe
and
A8N SLI Premium

?
May 17, 2006 4:19:26 PM

A8N32 is ok, as is the premium, although I personally wouldn't recommend either because they are retardedly expensive and the performance you get is less than stellar.
May 19, 2006 3:56:44 PM

What would you reccomend then?
May 19, 2006 4:07:41 PM

Dual-core may be the future, but that's the only thing they are. Presently, the best deals are really single-cores which perform just as good in almost every task, especially video games.

And don't forget that in the future, there will be much better dual-cores and you'll want to upgrade that X2 anyway (say to a Conroe).

Don't pay for hypothetical future performance.

As a matter of fact, the best bang/buck deal would be to save as much as possible on the processor, say take a 3500+ instead of 4000+, and put the extra money on the graphic card. The processor is secondary in video performance terms, which is basically what you are looking for. Sacrificing the GPU for a stupid dual-core cpu is one of the worst mistakes you can do.
May 19, 2006 9:00:09 PM

It all boils down to each individual’s preference.
If you just use that computer for email. Your needs are few.
As for the future of dual core processors,
The future is now.
In the windows environment at any given time you are running multiple tasks.
Most of them you are unaware of and don’t need to be concerned with such.
Playing your CPU intensive video game and having your firewall up with the antivirus actively scanning your files and folders is enough to crash any computer.
I can attest to the fact that multi core processors make your user interface fun again.
That’s what it’s all about.
Every one of us has different experiences and all points should be taken into consideration.
May 20, 2006 1:35:52 AM

I'm not saying dual-cores are not faster. They are. But for a user on a budget who tries to put up the best gaming computer for as little money as possible, the processor speed comes far down the list, far behind the video card; and dual-core technology, in particular, seems like unecessary icing on the cake. See this post. Personally, I would get Logitech Z2300 speakers before dual-core technology. At least you'll feel the difference, right into your guts! :p 
May 20, 2006 12:57:13 PM

Quote:
I'm not saying dual-cores are not faster. They are. But for a user on a budget who tries to put up the best gaming computer for as little money as possible, the processor speed comes far down the list, far behind the video card; and dual-core technology, in particular, seems like unecessary icing on the cake. See this post. Personally, I would get Logitech Z2300 speakers before dual-core technology. At least you'll feel the difference, right into your guts! :p 


LOL I was looking at those speakers! Mostly now, I use headphones cause the other people I live with can't stand the noise, though, I'll probably be moving soon here, and THEN I'll look into a monster sound system :D 

Thanks to everyone, you've all been very helpful and I believe that I can actually get the parts I want now for under $500 total, which was my goal. Thanks to everyone :) 

Edit:

One last question, do I need a special PSU to run SLI?
May 20, 2006 3:22:19 PM

Quote:
One last question, do I need a special PSU to run SLI?
A very good PSU for a single video card solution costs 40$ (FSP 400PN); SLI, since it doubles the amount of power needed for the video card, requires a much more powerful PSU; here are some very good reccomendations:

(1) The PC P&C 510SLI: $219 (reccomended for Crossfire X1900XT)

(2) The OCZ PowerStream 520W: $116

(3) The Enermax 535W: $79

See http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showpost.php?p=16... for more details on SLI PSUs or http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... for PSUs in general. Automatic bookmark! :wink:

I tend to doubt that next year you'll want to buy a second identical card. Dual-GPUs fail as a valuable upgrade path because you would be much better off with a brand new GPU that supports new technology such as DX10 and is more optimized with the games of tomorrow. As for any very budget-limited system, I would never reccomend SLI as it'll double the money invested on video card and on the PSU, while in return you might get a 0-30% increase in framerate, but mostly at uber-high resolution.
May 21, 2006 1:08:49 PM

Ah I'm actually using that Enermax PSU right now :)  Lucked out on that one.
!