Hi! Need suggestions for CPU heat

rudiger533

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Hi guys, I need some advice for my computer. This is the story:

One morning, my computer started to freeze. It was quite sudden cuz just the night before I was playing games on it. I checked my temperature monitor and noticed that the CPU was ~10 degrees hotter than normal even on idle. My computer fan was still going and I cleaned the heat sink, but the problem persisted. I ctrl-alt-del and looked at the processes and didn't notice anything in the way of viruses that could be running the CPU. I couldn't run the anti virus, cuz the CPU would get really hot.

My guess was that something was wrong with the thermal grease/glue. Does that sound reasonable? Why the change was so sudden, I don't know, but it is the only thing I can think of. So I'm open to suggestions.

I took the CPU sink off last night. It's a stock heat sink with the carbon pad. The heat sink came off without any resistance. I read elsewhere on this forum that you need to twist a little etc, but mine came off really easily, which makes me think that it's the grease even more...

In any case, I broke the fan mount, so unless I can get a replacement, I'll need to get another fan. Any suggestions on fans? Also, what is the difference between socket 478 etc when it comes to choosing a fan?

Thanks so much!
 

rudiger533

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The system was built by a small shop. The CPU is pentium IV 2.53 GHz. It's four years old, so not dual core or anything like that. My graphics is Radeon 9000 but I'm not sure why that would help my CPU problem.
 

Jebazor

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Knowing the graphics card may help, considering you are having problems with freezing during games :( .
Pentium IV's generally run pretty hot, but having it go so far above normal is something that is odd.
 

SidVicious

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I had to do some maintenance on such a system a few weeks ago, that carbon pad is just awefull, the CPU (2.4GHz Northwood B) was reaching 70C after a few minutes of Prime95 !

I cleaned the heatsink of dust, lint and hairs then proceeded to remove the piece of foil (look closely, you'll see an indentation around it and the sheen of that foil is'nt quite like the heatsink surface) that was sandwiched in between two layers of that black soothy stuff. I thoroughly cleaned the heatsink and heat spreader surface with Isopropanol, applied some Arctic Silver 5 then rearranged the case fan, the load temp dropped to 55C !

Most if not all mid to high end cooling systems will clearly indicate their socket compatibility, some will even include an universal mounting system.

The real question should be, are you going to overclock or keep your CPU at its stock speed, no need to spend 60$ on high end cooling when a cheap HSF will do the trick.
 

avarice

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Basic trouble shooting.

Clean the CPU and the heat sink of the old material. Blow out the fins and the rest of the dust bunnies from the case - and ensure good air flow.

Buy some good thermal grease (Artic Silver 5 of course).

Remount the heat sink with the new grease, and start it up again. Make sure your CPU fan, and any other fans are working.

DO NOT put the side panel back on - this will bring for the evil spirits and ensure some additional bugs will present themselves (superstition)

Go into CMOS - Check your temps (if your board has this feature.)

My Guess, is your heat sink tipped, slipped, or suddenly decided not to make good contact with your CPU. But that is just my guess.

If all looks good, then chances are my general guess is correct.

Good luck.
 

Anoobis

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If that was the first time you've cleaned the CPU heatsink and fan, chances are your fan is dying. It is the most likely reason to explain a sudden change like that. Just because it is spinning doesn't mean it is working correctly. Dirt and dust make the fan work a lot harder and therefore decrease it's operating life. If you replace the fan you should be fine. You can opt for some AS5 like other have suggested, but most any thermal paste will work. Just make sure to clean both surfaces with 90% or better rubbing alcohol and follow the thermal paste instructions on how to apply it.
 

rudiger533

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Thanx to all for your advice!

It seems like you all agree on there being something wrong with the thermal grease. Could it be that years of gaming as changed the chemical composition of the grease, and that's why it needs to be replaced?

In any case, I'm not planning to overclock, but I DID break the fan mount, so I might have to by a new fan + heat sink anyway :p. Any good brands or models I should look out for? (I'm guessing it's arctic silver 5 for the grease!)

I don't actually know what the socket thing means. Is it just different CPU mounting? I believe mine is 478 by I don't really know.

And is HSF just heat sink fan?
 

SidVicious

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Thanx to all for your advice!

It seems like you all agree on there being something wrong with the thermal grease. Could it be that years of gaming as changed the chemical composition of the grease, and that's why it needs to be replaced?

In any case, I'm not planning to overclock, but I DID break the fan mount, so I might have to by a new fan + heat sink anyway :p. Any good brands or models I should look out for? (I'm guessing it's arctic silver 5 for the grease!)

I don't actually know what the socket thing means. Is it just different CPU mounting? I believe mine is 478 by I don't really know.

And is HSF just heat sink fan?

Right on, Heat Sink Fan, refers to the heatsink + fan assembly as a whole.

As for sockets, the numbers (370, 423, 478, 754, 775, 939, 940 and whatnot) indicate the number of pins on the CPU (or socket in the case of LGA 775).

Some sockets will share a compatible mounting system (754, 939 and 940 or 423 and 478), others feature a completely different assembly and specifications depending on how the CPU manufacturer decided to design their reference cooling system.

Since you won't be overclocking, just go for the cheapest Socket 478 heatsink that will support your CPU and grab a tube of Arctic Silver while you're at it !
 

avarice

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Thanx to all for your advice!

It seems like you all agree on there being something wrong with the thermal grease. Could it be that years of gaming as changed the chemical composition of the grease, and that's why it needs to be replaced?

In any case, I'm not planning to overclock, but I DID break the fan mount, so I might have to by a new fan + heat sink anyway :p. Any good brands or models I should look out for? (I'm guessing it's arctic silver 5 for the grease!)

I don't actually know what the socket thing means. Is it just different CPU mounting? I believe mine is 478 by I don't really know.

And is HSF just heat sink fan?

I agree that any old HS/Fan combination should work, but I also think that you get what you pay for. If I were to make any brand suggestion it would be Zalman - good reputation, generally quiet, but also a bit on the high end of costs. But most any reputable brand should do.

If you will not be over clocking, do some shopping on newegg - find something that will meet your socket needs, has a good positive review, and a reasonable cost. Copper or copper/aluminum solutions are generally quite efficient.

Even if you don't buy from newegg - it's a good place to find a nice variety of solutions. I would even suggest looking for large quiet fans - say 92mm or 120mm - they generally bring better airflow and quieter noise levels (but that is just me.) Just be sure that your board/case is compatible - 120mm is a lot of fan to put on top of a CPU.

Good luck.
 

rudiger533

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it turned out that I was able to find a replacement fan mount, so no need for a new fan. The comp store didn't have arctic silver 5, but rather mx-1. Dunno if it meets your standards, but I'm going to give it a whirl later today. If there are any problems, I'll be sure to post :p

Thanks!
 

SidVicious

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Make sure that you carefully clean up both the CPU and the HSF surface, including the removal of that metal foil that I mentionned in my previous post, otherwise, even the very best thermal interface out there will be just as bad as a blob of mayonnaise.
 

rudiger533

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hm, I just saw that someone suggested getting a new fan. I might, if this doesn't work.

@Sid: yes, I saw that silverish foil. I'll get rid of that. So just the thermal compound between the chip and sink.

What is this "northwood" thing? And "prescott"? I thought the later was a code name for some intel processor.... been a while since I did computer shopping, so I've been outta the loop.

EDIT: looking at the arctic cooling website, I'm not supposed to spread the compound on the chip?? it says to dab it on, put on the sink, then twist. Hm...
 

avarice

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hm, I just saw that someone suggested getting a new fan. I might, if this doesn't work.

@Sid: yes, I saw that silverish foil. I'll get rid of that. So just the thermal compound between the chip and sink.

What is this "northwood" thing? And "prescott"? I thought the later was a code name for some intel processor.... been a while since I did computer shopping, so I've been outta the loop.

Sounds like you are on your way. The AS5 is a favorite of many - and considered the best thermal grease out there - however your choice will work just fine - do not sweat it. as for the instructions - yes just a dab will do ya. follow the instructions on the site and you will be just fine.

As for the "Northwood" thing and "Prescott" - yes, you are correct that they are code names for intel processor families. I have a Prescott 3.2 P4 and I find it exceptionally useful for keeping hot dishes hot when I am entertaining. I have had problems with food scortching after a while, but if you are careful you too can have good results.

This gets into the whole issue of heat/price/performance which have been debated in multiple forums at multiple times - both Intel and AMD have fanatics. In terms of CPU Heat and Heat Sinks, some brands are intended to handle the high heat given off by Prescotts and Northwood processors. You will probably see mention of these on the packaging. You should try to make sure that if you replace the heat sink and fan that it is designed to handle the type of processor that you own.

Regardless - you seem to be on the road to recovery. If you find yourself stumbling - have a couple pints of Guiness and things will begin to feel better.

Good Luck.
 

SidVicious

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hm, I just saw that someone suggested getting a new fan. I might, if this doesn't work.

@Sid: yes, I saw that silverish foil. I'll get rid of that. So just the thermal compound between the chip and sink.

What is this "northwood" thing? And "prescott"? I thought the later was a code name for some intel processor.... been a while since I did computer shopping, so I've been outta the loop.

You're right, both Northwood and Prescott are codenames for Intel's Pentium 4 CPUs.

The Northwood feature a 20 stages pipeline and 130nm gate lenght while the Prescott has a 33 stages pipeline and 90nm gate lenght. Due to some design flaws, Prescott CPUs run hotter and are somewhat more sluggish (in some tasks) than the older Northwoods.

According to the reviews I glanced at, the MX-1 thermal compound you got seems to be about as good as Arctic Silver 5. Provided that you did a good job cleaning the icky carbon based gunk, the dust build-up between the heatsink fins and mount your HSF properly, you should see much lower idle and load temps.