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AMD in Dell - does it matter?

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May 19, 2006 6:17:41 PM

Finally. No more speculations and more fuzzy marketing phrases. It's official, Dell is using Opteron processors for it's servers. For now, it's a very limited exposure for AMD, since Dell will only be building Opterons into high-end servers, not into the mass-market, mainstream systems.

But does that really matter? What do you think? Will Dell really profit from that? Will prices of systems in which AMD and Intel compete really go down, as AMD claims? And would you expect the pace of innovation in the space to increase with the largest systems builder now using both firms in its products?

We are looking forward to your opinions on how this deal will impact the industry and the processor landscape.

More about : amd dell matter

May 19, 2006 6:23:33 PM

Already been posted please look before you post.
May 19, 2006 6:24:48 PM

If dell wwas smart they'd adopt amd for all systems immediately...maybe the success left with Michael Dell. The stock always went up...now if they don't adopt amd, it will be vice versa.
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May 19, 2006 6:56:22 PM

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Should AMD have the best part for gaming systems, I think in the future, there's a chance that they may offer AMD boxes that are targeted at gaming.


What's that dude smoking? XPS's with Athlon 64's, or opty's, I'd almost start recommending them, almost.
May 19, 2006 7:04:02 PM

Just like anything in business, it will just take some time. After dealing with the chips, they'll start expanding into the other lines. But the main thing is with Dell's broad appeal, it will only increase the market share for AMD in the server arena and push them further into the standard user's minds...... Before you knew all you did, who did you ask for knowledge on Proccessors? The local IT guy, and when he can finally recommend a Dell that has AMD, hes gunna do it. Just going to take time thats all. Just put in the effort and bam they finally got Dell, so I'm not worried about whats going to happen to AMD, its only going to go up....
May 19, 2006 7:14:03 PM

Quote:
Already been posted please look before you post.
This is the 'discuss this article' link from the article. Please look before you flame a TG employee.

Mike.
May 19, 2006 7:23:29 PM

I aint you know what read this
May 19, 2006 7:35:27 PM

Dell does not need to use AMD chips in their desktops. Those who buy servers are typically much more computer savvy than those who are buying desktops. Most people buying Dell desktops and laptops don't know Intel from AMD, even they have perhaps at least heard of Intel. As long as Dell keeps pumping out those $400-700 machines for the masses, it won't matter whose chip is in there. I would venture to say as long as Dell keeps those lines Intel only, they will continue to benefit from very good pricing from Intel. From a business standpoint, I don't see that they need AMD in those lines, and why jeopardize what appears to be a very good association with Intel. Dell doesn't care about what the small percentage of computer enthusiasts want, they care about making money. Besides, most computer enthusiasts wouldn't buy a Dell even with an AMD processor. It's all about money.
May 19, 2006 7:48:24 PM

Quote:
Just like anything in business, it will just take some time. After dealing with the chips, they'll start expanding into the other lines. But the main thing is with Dell's broad appeal, it will only increase the market share for AMD in the server arena and push them further into the standard user's minds...... Before you knew all you did, who did you ask for knowledge on Proccessors? The local IT guy, and when he can finally recommend a Dell that has AMD, hes gunna do it. Just going to take time thats all. Just put in the effort and bam they finally got Dell, so I'm not worried about whats going to happen to AMD, its only going to go up....



Dell is using AMD in desktops. Alienware specializes in AMD systems for gaming. I'd buy Alienware before Optiplex or XPS.
May 19, 2006 8:08:36 PM

You are forgetting that Alienware is not the household name that dell is. How many uninformed people come up to you and say "I got this Alienware flyer and am thinking of buying a computer, what should I get?". I get that all the time with Dell. Hell, even the bartender at the local Bar pulled that one on me.

If AMD gets that level of penetration into Dell (they probably won't, they are focusing their efforts into the server space where they are killing Intel, and Dell's current deals with Intel are too sweet), then it will definitely help their CPU Sales.

It's like getting a product you make in your garage sold at Wal-Mart. It can't help but boost sales.
May 19, 2006 8:12:25 PM

Hergie where the heck were you?
May 19, 2006 8:54:02 PM

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Besides, most computer enthusiasts wouldn't buy a Dell even with an AMD processor.

Very true

diy or die :!:
May 19, 2006 8:56:28 PM

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Besides, most computer enthusiasts wouldn't buy a Dell even with an AMD processor.

Very true

diy or die :!: :lol:  THAT SHOULD BE YOUR CATCH PHRASE MAN PUT IT INTO YOUR SIG QUICK BEFORE SOMEONE STEALS IT!
May 19, 2006 9:09:09 PM

I think that everyone is underestimating the potential impact this move will have for both companies.

First consider Dell's enterprise dominance. Dell has the largest piece of enterprise market share. Speaking from experience, enterprise level customers generally don't give a crap about processor name brand. They want the best pricing their OEM's can provide. HUGE companies are exclusive to Dell for all their PC needs. AMD just got a (potentially) enourmous foothold in enterprise customers. So even if this deal doesn't pan out like everyone thinks, at the very least AMD will Opterons in <some> servers that they didn't have before.

Second. There are plenty of IT geeks (though a small minority) out there who just LOVE AMD. Many of them are decision makers for these "enterprise" customers. We've already established that Dell has the majority of market share. If said geeks have a choice between Intel and AMD- they'll choose AMD. This is beneficial for both companies. AMD ships more Opterons (which are inherently high margin) and Dell sees growth. Even if Dell ships 5% of its servers with Opterons in 2007, it's going to a windfall for AMD. 5% is a LOT when you're dealing with a monster like Dell.

Now with all that said, I don't really have any clue as to how big all this will be in reality. I do know for a fact that eventually at least 25% of all Dell systems shipped will have AMD processors. Just when that will happen is anyone's guess right now.

So my answer is yes, AMD in Dell it does matter. For both companies.
May 19, 2006 9:13:03 PM

I dont know what the heck Dell is thinking when a whole new line of processor is coming out in few months from Intel for Desktop, laptops and Servers. Unless Dells wants to improve their sales in short period of time with AMD by claming fastest PC on the market with fastest CPU on the market, and 6 months later ditch AMD for Intel. Then i would understand.

But if AMD won’t come out with anything new after Conroe line of CPU comes to market, then AMD will be dead in the water and Dell will be pissed, because they won’t be selling fastest PC's anymore, and sales will go down. Instead some one else will use Intel and claim fastest servers and Desktops, thus boosting their sales, HP for example.

In a way its a bad move for Dell unless they are out to use AMD and then toss them a side like a week old used socks and go with Intel instead.

Just doesnt make sence to make such drastic change now.
May 19, 2006 9:16:14 PM

I think i know dell's plan get amd for now wait till conroe use this to pressure intel for better prices and boom kick amd out into the street like an orphan!
May 19, 2006 9:27:01 PM

Quote:
I think that everyone is underestimating the potential impact this move will have for both companies.


Not everyone. :wink:

good post there, mp.
May 19, 2006 9:30:02 PM

What you think your some kind of wise guy?
May 19, 2006 9:33:37 PM

No, that (my first post in this thread) states my opinion on the subject, which is in agreement with mpjesse.
May 19, 2006 9:39:16 PM

Words to big for you?
May 19, 2006 9:42:10 PM

Piddy, I've been around there just hasn't been much worth discussing on here lately and I've been pretty busy with work.

As for this topic, please people don't turn this into a Conroe vs. AMD discussion, because Conroe has very little to do with this issue at all for two reasons:

1)Dell is going to be putting AMD's in their high end servers in late 2006 after Conroe is released, and will initially be putting them in high-end 4 and 8 way plus servers. Intel's next server chip will at best be about even with opterons in that segment, and they will likely be more expensive given Intel's enterprise pricing models in the past.

2)Even if it were an issue, do you think that Dell would sign an agreement like this with AMD after all these years if they didn't have at least some indication that AMD processor's will be able compete either pricewise or performance wise.

Remember this is the Enterprise market, which is a whole different world than the home desktop/enthusiast market.
May 19, 2006 9:44:53 PM

A more balanced market share between Intel and AMD can only be good for the consumer/enterprise. Even with recent gains made by AMD almost ALL businesses would kill for Intel's market share. I imagine that when a company temporarily moves ahead in technology the other company will try to negate that advantage as much as possible with price.

Opterons have been grabbing large chunks of the server market and Dell couldn't stand idly by any longer watching sales go to other companies like HP. Servers are where the large margin, big bucks is made. Hopefully there will be a trickle down effect with AMD getting into Dell desktops.
May 19, 2006 9:58:56 PM

Quote:
Words to big for you?
No just kidding with you.

Quote:
Piddy, I've been around there just hasn't been much worth discussing on here lately and I've been pretty busy with work.

As for this topic, please people don't turn this into a Conroe vs. AMD discussion, because Conroe has very little to do with this issue at all for two reasons:

1)Dell is going to be putting AMD's in their high end servers in late 2006 after Conroe is released, and will initially be putting them in high-end 4 and 8 way plus servers. Intel's next server chip will at best be about even with opterons in that segment, and they will likely be more expensive given Intel's enterprise pricing models in the past.

2)Even if it were an issue, do you think that Dell would sign an agreement like this with AMD after all these years if they didn't have at least some indication that AMD processor's will be able compete either pricewise or performance wise.

Remember this is the Enterprise market, which is a whole different world than the home desktop/enthusiast market.
I know hergie it's just that alot of people are M.I.A. cause of this whole am2/conroe war i wonder when it is going to be over i pray for peace on these forumz.
May 19, 2006 10:16:11 PM

Well said, I was thinking the same thing. Did he not read the article, Stop thinking small time son. This ain't your home desktop computer. AMD leads in 4p to 8p servers, as the articles states and even conroe won't change that.

Why limit yourself to only one vendor when u can have both. Makes alot more sense to me then just sticking to intel. Product diversity is key. The more products you have to offer your customers the better it is for them, hence increasing your chance for profit.

Start thinking out of the box, and not the intel box u seem to be sitting in.

This is good for everyone!
May 19, 2006 10:16:39 PM

Quote:


Now with all that said, I don't really have any clue as to how big all this will be in reality. I do know for a fact that eventually at least 25% of all Dell systems shipped will have AMD processors. Just when that will happen is anyone's guess right now.


25% for a fact? Thats a bit aggresive considering we don't know the full marketshare impact of the intel core 2 yet. Don't see it happening myself. But I have been wrong in the past.
May 19, 2006 10:19:09 PM

This deal is even good for intel. They will have a harder time bringing anti-trust charges against intel now.
May 19, 2006 10:19:14 PM

WHAT??

Someone on this forum has been wrong about something? I didn't think that was possible.

J/K :twisted:
May 19, 2006 10:22:01 PM

Yes, its true, I have been wrong in the past, and unlike so many others here, I have no problem admitting it. I think a little humility now and then builds character.

I just try to have fun speculating what will happen.
May 19, 2006 10:23:11 PM

I know, I wasn't directing that at you specifically, that was just too good of an oppurtunity to pass up.
May 19, 2006 10:25:03 PM

Hergie he is right that with this move intel will have an easier time with the lawsuit.
May 19, 2006 10:28:13 PM

I wouldn't be so sure. The lawsuit will focus more on moves and actions prior to the start of the suit. I don't think something like this would have that great of an effect on it.
May 19, 2006 10:31:34 PM

Damn your right.
May 19, 2006 11:24:36 PM

You're absolutley correct, it doesn't matter to regular folks. They bring dead Dells to me all of the time, if it needs a motherboard, I give them the price of the repair and they tell me they can get another for $399 or something.I'll ask what's it got and they can't answer, because it's only $399 they could care less what it has.
The Server and Gamer/Do It Yourself Better market is so outnumbered by the regular "I call my whole computer a Hard Drive or Modem " crowd that Dell really can't lose with the prices they offer. I swear if the computer had a Bagel with wires connected to the motherboard and it was $299- $399 from Dell they'd be flying off of the shelves.
May 19, 2006 11:31:30 PM

What has happened now has NO bearing on what was done back then.
Look at it this way..........if you took a life, then the next day saved one, you will still have to pay for the one you took regardless.
A bit extreme with the analogy, but it's what I had at the time.
May 20, 2006 1:12:18 AM

I think It going to help dell for it been losing alot of money in the last few years and also help Amd. I also think intel will hurt from this but. You also have to look at this. If both company are the same where both Intel and Amd Had about the same Imcome give or take a few million. Computers will lower in price and speed will go up faster.
May 20, 2006 1:25:18 AM

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I swear if the computer had a Bagel with wires connected to the motherboard and it was $299- $399 from Dell they'd be flying off of the shelves.
A bagel nice 8) but i think a cookie would be better.
May 20, 2006 7:05:24 AM

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But if AMD won’t come out with anything new after Conroe line of CPU comes to market, then AMD will be dead in the water and Dell will be pissed


Dell is smart. They realize "Opteron != Conroe + Merom" and that Woodcrest doesn't scale past 2-CPUs because of the shared memory bus. Opterons are expensive, but they also offer insane bus bandwidth and the ability to use 8+ CPUs on machine without performance degradation.

Conroe and Merom will own on all benchmarks sub-4 CPUs. Opteron will remain x86 king in the high-end 4+ CPU market.
May 20, 2006 7:11:32 AM

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Dell really can't lose with the prices they offer.


I disagree. Dell's margins have been rather poor as of late, mostly due to over aggressive pricing. Adding AMD is an attempt to raise sells without having to resort to as aggressive pricing, though I could easily be wrong this is just an opinion.
May 20, 2006 7:31:15 AM

I think AMD Opteron MP (4 to 8 way processors series) fulfill Dell missing product line. Currently, Dell offer 4-way PowerEdfge series but no 8-way solution. AMD Opteron MP solution is better cost effective versus Intel Xeon MP solution in term price, performance and scalability. Either way Dell give their customer choice to choose AMD or Intel rather none at all.
May 20, 2006 7:45:29 AM

My initial feeling was that AMD had done a bad deal for themselves, and thier old customers. After all, HP, SUN etc sell a lot of workstations/ desktops with those 4 way 8 way servers.
If Dell gets that marketshare, the chips that go with, will all be Intel.
You have to look at the timing of the release though. They sent it out, with the results from a really bad quarter. I suspect that the point was to avert a large devaluation.
When you look at the number of 4 way/ 8 way servers that Dell has sold, you have to wonder if they really intend to sell any opterons, over the token amount.
I suspect that Dell will be back to an Intel only situation as soon as thier numbers pick up.
May 20, 2006 8:28:37 AM

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My initial feeling was that AMD had done a bad deal for themselves, and thier old customers. After all, HP, SUN etc sell a lot of workstations/ desktops with those 4 way 8 way servers.


Hu ? Thats complete BS. Companies don't buy "a server and 5 PC's to go wih them". You buy as many servers as you need to fullfull your storage/computing needs, and only as many desktop/laptops as you have employees needing them. If anything, it would be the other way around, as you add more clients, you might need more servers to .. wel.. serve them. But I have never ever even seen adds like 'buy a server and 5 clients, and you get 10% discount", simply because it doesn't work that way.

Requirements for either type of machine, the criteria, support, etc are so vastly different, you will often see servers being bought by a different department, from a different vendor. Sun is selling around $500M worth of opteron servers, expected to breach $1B next year, but how many desktops did you think went with them ?


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You have to look at the timing of the release though. They sent it out, with the results from a really bad quarter. I suspect that the point was to avert a large devaluation.


I can agree with that, although of course, part of that bad quarter is due to its declining server sales. All Opteron proponents (HP, Sun) are posting nice gains in those markets though, with opteron growing triple digits and now having close to 40% of the 4S maket. So one is not necessarely completely unrelated to the other

Quote:
When you look at the number of 4 way/ 8 way servers that Dell has sold, you have to wonder if they really intend to sell any opterons, over the token amount.


If you look at dollar value, you will see that 4 way market is quite significant, especially if you include software and support. 8 way is something totally different, not sure why people here are putting them in one bag with 4S. Opteron currently sucks at 8S, and in general 8S x86 is a tiny niche. May change with Horus, K8L or CSI, but at this point, its safe to ignore 8S+ for x86.
May 20, 2006 9:56:21 AM

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Companies don't buy "a server and 5 PC's to go wih them".

Nor an order of fries to go with it.
However, many companies do stick with a single distributor. And yes, HP and DELL have been known to throw in a desktop or two, to "sweeten a deal." They want you to come back for all your IT needs.
May 20, 2006 10:09:29 AM

Uh, he was talking about 4 and 8 processor machines, not 4 to 8 machines with a server. Though nobody buys an 8 processor desktop, so I don't know where that came from. BTW, I have seen Dell offer exactly that Deal in the past: A Server, 5 desktop clients, and a network switch to get your network started at a discount.

As far as Opterons currently sucking in 8-way, where do you get that? They currently Kill Xeons in in 8-way server apps using 4-dual core machines.

This is a high margin/low volume market where HP and Sun have been hitting Dell. This move helps Dell recover while getting AMD more exposure and customer base.
May 20, 2006 11:09:42 AM

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Uh, he was talking about 4 and 8 processor machines, not 4 to 8 machines with a server.


No kidding.

Quote:

As far as Opterons currently sucking in 8-way, where do you get that? They currently Kill Xeons in in 8-way server apps using 4-dual core machines.


"8 way" usually refers to 8 socket, not 8 cores (a "2 way" server isnt a single socket, dual core server).. Your link refers to a 4S test. Besides, beating a 4S/8C Xeon using an 8500, hardly qualifies as proof of good scaling. Fact is, cache coherency broadcast traffic hurts performance of opteron at 4S, and kills it at 8S.
May 20, 2006 12:09:15 PM

Isn't the Opteron @ 8S still better performing the Woodcrest would be @ 8S over a bus? Or are you reffering to Itanium? And how many Itanium based systems are really sold in comparison to other 8S systems? I wouldn't think that very many are.....
May 20, 2006 12:39:02 PM

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You are forgetting that Alienware is not the household name that dell is. How many uninformed people come up to you and say "I got this Alienware flyer and am thinking of buying a computer, what should I get?". I get that all the time with Dell. Hell, even the bartender at the local Bar pulled that one on me.


I see it too. I work with a guy that is an electrical engineer. He's a very capable guy WRT computers, electronics, vacuum systems, metalwork - in other words, very capable at dealing with a wide variety of modern technologies totally hands-on. He's into gaming as is his kid. He needs a new computer for home and what is he spraying his tax return bucks on? You got it, a Dell. And a low-end Dell at that. He could easily afford a more expensive box, and he could build his own easily without batting an eye. I think many people get some sort of comfort from buying a Dell. It's like drugs flow into their fingertips when they configure a machine on dell.com. Personally, I don't understand it.
May 20, 2006 2:16:34 PM

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Isn't the Opteron @ 8S still better performing the Woodcrest would be @ 8S over a bus?


Woodcrest won't go 8S for all I know, but yes, Opteron would most likely beat it there. Then again, 8S Xeon would beat 8 GSM phone's clustered through IRdA, that doesn't make it well performing though.


Quote:
Or are you reffering to Itanium? And how many Itanium based systems are really sold in comparison to other 8S systems? I wouldn't think that very many are


I have no numbers, but If you are talking 8S and up, single image servers (not clusters), I'm guessing x86 is fifth or sixth player behind:

- Power4/5 (IBM, Bull,.)
- PA Risc and Alpha (HP, and yes, they still sell, and pretty damn well too)
- Sparc (Sun, Fujitsu)
- Itanium (HP mostly, SGI,..)
- Z9 mainframes (IBM)
May 20, 2006 3:55:32 PM

Back on track here...first, Average Joe or Jane, who want a PC will buy a PC (with many still thinking MHz is all that matters), Dell has some serious name recognition though for the most part, it's whatever's on sale.

Most of those who know the real benefits of an AMD or an Intel processor, at the processor level, usually build their own boxes based on their preferred CPU.

Think back to where a corporation wouldn't consider anything but an IBM PC regardless of how good the competition was. For many large corporations, this mode of thinking still exists though the players are more like Dell & HP.

This recent announcement probably will help AMD more than Dell and in fact, is already helping AMD. AMD doesn't really advertise much. But now, with a very top tier name like Dell making huge headlines about AMD, suddenly AMD is becomming more of a household (and corporate) name.

Some of the effects will be rather immediate and will increase over time, particularly when those same blind corporations start hearing about AMD processors in their own DP Departments. "Buying daughter a PC for graduation... hearing good things at work about AMD... let's try a PC with one of those."

In the long run, even if there isn't a long run in this particular deal, both Dell & AMD will win and in fact, are already.
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