first time build need help I have been screwed long enough

[y2kdos]

So im building a new pc for the first time as pc world have fucked me by selling me a piece of shit that has broken down and will cost me €400 to fix and guess what the warranty ran out 3 months ago coincidence I think not.And now im gonna build my own pc to stop this happening again Im from Ireland and have €1000 to spend I have a monitor and speakers so just need a new pc unit.Im buying from here http://www.komplett.ie/k/k.asp as its the cheapest and most reliable so can someone please help as I dont know much and any help would be appreciated.So far im planning on getting this kit which I will use for gaming,Internet,and general use

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=307201 cpu amd300
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=312220 mobo
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=318626 video card 7600gt
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=123472 memory
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=314089 dvd dive
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=316693 hard drive
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309270 case
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=312300 psu
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=315135 windows os
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=120787 Ethernet card

If I have missed something or these parts are not any good please tell me also what cables will I need or will they come with the stuff above?
Oh yeah im not using any parts from my old pc as I dont trust them if im honest about it and im going to sell it separately it is a Advent p4 pc specs here http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/advent/pc/t9202.htm it is the biggest heap of shit pc I have ever used it is so loud and feels like its gonna catch on fire at anytime.The 2 hard drives have broke down and motherboard and im not going to replace them as something else will go wrong again so there would be no point anyone have any ideas what to do with this sell seperately,use some parts or throw in the bin thanks

 

[Kholonar]

Here would be my shopping list for close to that budget (I went over because if I were you I'd buy a better graphics card). ATi and nvidia cards are both good so don't worry about that.

By the way, this shop lacks quite a few options, I had a real problem getting good video cards at reasonable prices - perhaps shop elsewhere for the vc?

Intel Pentium D 805 2.66GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan 140euros

NEC DVD±RW burner, ND-3550A, 16x, Dual, Silver OEM 39euros

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM 115euros

Cooler Master Centurion 5 Black/Silver (Without PSU) 77euros

Cooler Master Real Power 550W w/Power indicator, SLI, ATX/EPS, 20/24pin 118euros

OCZ Value Pro PC4200 DDR2 2048MB Kit, w/two matched 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 DIMMs 177euros

EPoX EP-5NVA+ SLI, nForce4, Socket-775, SATA, GbLAN, DDR2, Firewire, PCI-Ex16 136euros

Gainward GeForce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, "BP7900GT-256-TV-DD" 345euros

Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 Software English OEM 87euros

Total 1234euros

This is an intel system which seems to be a bit contradictory to what you were gonna buy. My advice is, whether you go with AMD or intel, make sure you get a dual core processor. It really is the future and you'll notice it everytime you want to switch tasks or run 2 or more things at once.
I only picked the intel because it's a cheap.

I don't know whether you're into overclocking but if you are, this chip is really best for if you plan on overclocking it.

You can also get a cheaper hard drive, a seagate 7200.9 250gb harddrive goes for under 90 euroes but go for seagate, the performance is normal but the 5 year warranty is very useful, I've had a hard drive (maxtor) fail after 3 years.

If you could, I'd recommend adding more to your budget and opting for a 3800x2 or waiting for conroe/AM2?

 

[Kholonar]

I'm an nvidia fan and use a 7800gt but ATi cards are fine and each pulls its punches As long as you get one of the middle high end graphics cards - I'd be looking for a 7800gt/7900gt/x1800xt/x1800xl for under 300euros.

I suggested the pentium d 805 dual core because, it's cheap, it's dual core, it overclocks well and also, the conroe is apparantly socket 775 so you can upgrade to a conroe when the time comes (if it is indeed 30% faster than the fx-60).

 

[y2kdos]

Thanks guys for the help its been really usefull just a few questions
1.So the Intel D805 seems great value whats its perfromance like compared to equivalent amd chip and is it Quiet
2.I cant really afford more than $1000 so do I really need 2gb of ram.What would be better 1gb ram 7900gt or 2gb ram 7600gt
3.Thanks kholonar for checking the website Im buying off http://www.komplett.ie/k/k.asp and picking out the parts they look great and I will model my new rig around them.If you could help me knock it down to €1000 without losing too much I would really appreciate it.

 

[y2kdos]

the d 805 is a killer overclocker IF!!!!!! you have a great psu great memory,anawesome motherboard,and a topnotch psu.Toms overclocked the 805 to 4.1ghz on a 258 dollar motherboard with an above 100 dollar psu and great memory.while the cpu is $128,the mb is$258,and the psu was $100 plus.for $1000 id go with a 939 game set up just the mb,cpu,mem,and psu for the 805 is over half that .if you want to overclock,not to mention the watercooling youll need to get 4ghz.(@200+dollars)

What do you think I could get out of it without watercoolong and using only fan with the cpu

 

[Kholonar]

I doubt 4.1GHz would be the overclock to aim for, if nothing else, this proc is a power hog and that would cost alot of money. However, I can see it getting to 3.5GHz with a memory divider (i never realised ddr2 ram was so expensive, so on my shopping list i went with 4-4-14 533MHz).
The coolermaster psu is a good one, infact I think thwg reviewed it (it is effecient, reliable and got lots of amps).

But all this might be a moot point, the guy might not want to overclock it. I would always suggest people to get dual core from now on, waiting half a minute to alt tab is just not on anymore. Unfortunately, to meet that 1000euro budget he'll have to go with an intel solution until the x2s drop in price. As you say, it isn't much of a sacrifice if you are willing to overclock it, in which case, it's actually a bargin.

 

[Kholonar]

Watercooling and *gasp* phase change cooling is very effective at getting that extra 300mhz overclock but I personally don't think it's worth it. They are incredibly expensive, difficult to set up and can stuff up your computer (if not careful). There's also nothing that can beat the transportability of air cooling - exotic cooling is often recommended to be unistalled if you wish to move a computer.

 

[Kholonar]

Y2kdos,

1. It's difficult to find reviews of the pentium d 805 against the fx-60 (the fastest processor buyable today but I can get one against the 3800 x2)

For FEAR game at low 1024*768 the 3800x2=87 frames per second and 805d=74 frames per second. So a 17% difference but the 3800 x2 goes for £200 while the 805d is £80. Just for reference, the amd 3000 goes at 85 frames per second so you will still get 6 frames more for your original processor.
However, that is with the 805d at 2.66GHz, if you can get it to even 3GHz you will close the gap by alot.
How quiet the processor is depends entirely on what fan you have on the heatsink. I have no idea how loud the stock fan is but you can always replace it. However, how much cooling you will need depends on how much heat you generate and the 805d definately generates more heat that the amd 3000.
2. If I were going to drop some money out of the system I'd look to another shop for a cheaper graphics card. I'd also do a bit of research on
some non-sli motherboards, they are usually cheaper.
Yes, I would recommend you get 2gb of ram.
3. There's always gonna be a place in the budget where you're gonna have to make sacrifices but I don't recommend you do it with the graphics card (if you are a heavy game player). Although, saying that, there is something else to think about - when windows vista comes (sometime next year) it will introduce a new format of graphics card conforming to DX10. It may therefore be more cost effective to live with a mid range graphics card now and get a DX10 card once the DX10 standard becomes entrenched. It's totally up to you - your problem, lol!

 

[y2kdos]

So guys I cant thank you enough for the help you have given me so I have a decision to make
Intel P D SYSTEM

Intel Pentium D 805 2.66GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan 140euros
OCZ Value Pro PC4200 DDR2 2048MB Kit, w/two matched 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 DIMMs 177euros
EPoX EP-5NVA+ SLI, nForce4, Socket-775, SATA, GbLAN, DDR2, Firewire, PCI-Ex16 136euros
Cooler Master Centurion 5 Black/Silver (Without PSU) 77euros
XFX 7900GT i can get for €300 at otherwebsite

Amd 64 system
Amd 64 3000 socket 939 €116
Msi k8n moterboard
2gb crucial memory €178
Cooler Master Centurion 5 Black/Silver (Without PSU) 77euros
7900gt €300

AMD 64X2 SYSTEM
Amd 64x2 3800x2 €320
and same mobo ram video card and psu as above

What do you guys thinks is better value system for gaming and encrypting dvds and other media things.I dont Think I will be able to do the watercooling and other cooling methods as they seem very complicated as just putting the pc together will be tough enough on me. But I will overclock with the stock equipment and check as far as I can go

 

[Kholonar]

In my opinion, overclocking is a perfectly safe thing to do but be aware it will invalidate your processor's warranty (although I think you won't care so much about a warranty on a 140 euro processor as much as a 320euro one).

Some things to watch out for when overclocking:
- Keep all the voltages for all your equipment within stock ranges, putting up your processor speeds will cause more heat to be generated but it is a change in Vcore which will really make a difference.
- Use a temperature sensing software like "motherboard monitor" or "speedfan" and make sure the temperature doesn't get within 5'C of the max operating temp, intels should turn off if it is getting too hot but it's always good to be careful. It looks like pentium Ds have around 65'C as max operating temp so to be safe keep it below 60'C perhaps even 55'C.

Also, I forgot to say that tom has some boards that he has tested for the 805 d, you might want to check the prices on them and the spec they have (whether you want onboard sound, x no of usb, GB lan and such like).
Asus P5WD2-E Premium (Intel 975x)
Asus P5WD2-WS Premium (Intel 975x)
Asus P5WD2 Premium (Intel 955X)
Gigabyte G1975X Turbo (Intel 975X)
Gigabyte 8I955X Royal (Intel 955X)L/li>
I'd definately recommend trying these, the board I chose is certainly not the cheapest and there's nothing like getting a mobo that you know will work with your processor.

 

[y2kdos]

Im gonna go for the Intel P D805 System its great value and I can overclock like you said to a high level my only worry is the heating what fan/heatsink would you recommend

 

[Kholonar]

I've been having a look at the komplett website and they don't show many heatsink fans. Many people like the Zalman 9500cnps, it's expensive, and not THE coolest heatsink/fan but it is a solid buy.

One heatsink/fan I did find on the komplett site that is quite good is the vapochill micro. It comes in 3 configurations:
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310134 35.01euros
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310149 55.01euros
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=310145 42euros

There's not really a whole lot of difference in them. Whether you think 1'C and a slight drop in sound is worth the extra then go for it. I have a feeling though that you wouldn't notice the difference and the basic no frills version is one of the coolest heatsinks out there.

 

[y2kdos]

Thanks man for looking through komplett for me your a real gent I will go for Vapochill Micro High End Cooler, 92mm fan, Socket 775 €35 like you said I wouldnt even notice the sound.I will be buying the lot on tuesday as the Intel P D805 is back in stock then I'll let you know how I get on just check this topic.Again thanks for all the help you've spared me alot of cash

 

[y2kdos]

Here is the whole pc in full

Intel Pentium D 805 2.66GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan 140euros
Asus P5ND2-SLI nForce4 €103 review here http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=137&type=expert&pid=6
XFX 7900gt €300
NEC DVD±RW burner, ND-3550A, 16x, Dual, Silver OEM 39euros
OCZ Value Pro PC4200 DDR2 2048MB Kit, w/two matched 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 DIMMs 177euros
Cooler Master Real Power 550W w/Power indicator, SLI, ATX/EPS, 20/24pin 118euros
Cooler Master Centurion 5 Black/Silver (Without PSU) 77euros
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM 115euros
Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 Software English OEM 87euros
Vapochill Micro High End Cooler, 92mm fan, Socket 775 €35

All for €1200 including shipping

 

[y2kdos]

Thanks for the link man and for all your help if I can get it to 3.2ghz I will be very happy

 

[Kholonar]

That's a very nice looking board, it's passively cooled aswell. However, looking at the epox board I suggested and the P5ND2 board there is a problem with compatibility - EEK. Looks like being socket 775 aint good enough.

This is a quote from the asus knowledge base:

Q: Can Asus 915/925 series motherboard support Intel new 8xx series Pentium D processors?

Due to specification of Intel 915/925 chipsets, these motherboard will not support Pentium D Processor. But those motherboards like Asus P5WD2 Premium of Intel 945/955 series chipsets will.

So, I'd also be cautious of the epox board as it lists the pentium 6xx series as the highest it can support.

My advice, go for the ASUS P5WD2 as they say. I'm sorry, I know it's near 200 euros and it doesn't support SLI but it's better safe than sorry with these things. Besides, I'm using an asus board myself and I know it's a solid brand.

Taking another costing of this whole thing

we get

Intel Pentium D 805 2.66GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB, BOXED w/fan 140euros

NEC DVD±RW burner, ND-3550A, 16x, Dual, Silver OEM 39euros

Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 250GB SATA2 8MB 7200RPM 85euros

Cooler Master Centurion 5 Black/Silver (Without PSU) 77euros

Cooler Master Real Power 550W w/Power indicator, SLI, ATX/EPS, 20/24pin 118euros

OCZ Value Pro PC4200 DDR2 2048MB Kit, w/two matched 1024MB PC4200 DDR2 DIMMs 177euros

Asus P5WD2 Premium, I955X, Socket-775 SATAII, ATX, Dual-GbLAN, DDR2, PCI-Ex16 194euros

Gainward GeForce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, "BP7900GT-256-TV-DD" 345euros

Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2 Software English OEM 87euros

Vapochill Micro High End Cooler, 92mm fan, Socket 775 €35

total of €1297

It's quite a bit over your €1000 budget now even with the drop down to the seagate 7200.9 250gb. This isn't even taking into account shipping which can cost £50. It's completely up to the graphics card and whether you are willing to take the risk with the motherboard. You will notice the difference if you knock down to a lesser graphics card but as I said before, it's up to you.

 

[Pissdrunk]

I'm a system builder and designer for a software company in Lenexa, KS. One thing that is for sure, is that all system builders have their biases, and swear by certain manufacturers and hardware.

If this is your first system build, you want to focus on stability primarily. Its nice to have all the bells and whistles, but its important in your first system build to keep it simple.

Cases are subjective, like your cars exterior, it will be a reflection of your personality. Purchase one you can stand looking at every day for years to come. Most PSUs that come with cases are of low quality, this has been the case for years, but it seems to be improving. I like the classic series by NZXT. Both cases in this series (Lexa, and Trinity) are lightweight aluminum, this is condusive to cooling, and toting your PC around for lan parties.

I'm an AMD guy. I dont see the allure of the Intel. The AMD runs cooler, and faster. The popularity of the dual core processor comes from the hardware enthusiast's perpetual drive for "more", "bigger", and "faster". Truth be told though, unless you find yourself multitasking in a serious fashion, a single core will be fine for you. In fact, most applications will not utilize the dual core aspect. The AMD Athlon 3700+ is an excellent starter chip for a gamer. The 1MB L2 cache is a great bonus.

Your motherboard choice is the most crucial in a first time system build. In order for you to truly understand what is taking place with your system, its vital that you get a stable board. Newegg.com is an excellent place to spend hours reviewing these things. ASUS makes solid boards, period. ASUS A8N-SLI is a great board to allow for further expansion in the graphics department. Its little brother the A8N5X is a great starter board, and is easy on the wallet especially if you are not too concerned with going SLI. I'll give MSI props here too if you want more features, and maintain the stability with out breaking your budget, but for first time builds, ASUS would be my choice.

SATA HDDs are the way to go. Gamers perfer to stripe their RAID for speed. I use Western Digital and Seagate drives exclusively. HDDs have a lifecycle. Both these manufacturers account for that, and give you the most out of your drives. RMA process with each is very good and expedient. Size is up to budget and preference.

The memory market is really active. Corsair XMS memory stands atop with stability and performance, but you will spend the extra $. Always go with a matched pair to ensure stability. Adata is an excellent option if you dont want to spend the $ with Corsair, this very site convinced me to try Adata memory. The Vitesta memory is excellent and very stable, not to mention the price is unbeatable. Adata is huge in Japan. The price difference is not a reflection of quality. Its Adata's attempt to permeate the American and European markets. Its working, I'm using their matched sets more and more.

Its reiterated here several times, but yes, both ATI and nVida make excellent video chipsets now, and their competition makes our lives as gamers a very good one. I lean towards nVida, they were subpar as early as 3 years ago in my opinion, but with their 6000 and 7000 series cards, they kept their price down, and out preformed the ATI counterparts in most applications. I'm a big 7800GT, fan. Its priced very well, and preforms great in every game you throw at it. Several manufactures make this card and throw in software bundles to get you to sway their way. I'm one for choosing my own software titles, and purchasing a GPU for its hardware not it's software. Warranty is very important, MSI, XFX and nVidia all carry lifetime warranties on thier products. XFX even allows you to transfer that warranty once if you sell your card later.

Most of all have fun building this thing. You are the creator, and playing computer God is a very fun and satisfing process when you press the power button for the first time and it boots with no flaws. Thats why you need to keep it simple with your first build. Good luck, and I hope this helped you a bit.

Pissdrunk

 

[y2kdos]

I can shave €40 by getting a x1900gt http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=320722
And I will try the Asus P5ND2-SLI, nForce4 SLI Intel €103 if it works great but if not I can just replace it with the Asus P5WD2 Premium.Shipping is just €22 so thats not bad its looking like €1150 but if motherboard doesnt work €1250 which is good.What do you think of the x1900gt is it better value than the 7900gt

 

[Kholonar]

Ok, sure, if you're comfortable with the whole motherboard thing, that's fine. I think I'm being a bit paranoid, it's just a get a bit skittish when I see tom pointing out a few choice boards and not including others.
The x1900gt is a poorer performer than the 7900gt in some games but manages to keep up in others. Sure go for it, although, I recommend you read some reviews. It's often difficult to understand which card is "better" as some games go ati's way and others nvidia.

 

[linux_0]

I would suggest something like this:

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=1895002

Except upgrade to a 7900GT or X1900XT :-D

Wait a few days for AM2 to be released and prices to hopefully drop!

AM2 is going to be released in 3 days. Prices should fall over the next week or two.

Wait for 65nm AMDs if you can. :-D

 

[Kholonar]

I like the case, in fact, that's the one I'm using - but some might consider it a bit too outlandish and the centurion is more civilised.
Newegg has great prices but the guy is in ireland and only wants to buy from komplett.ie, which seems quite expensive. he komplett site auto include VAT but newegg is an american site so you have to add it on. Despite this, a 3800 x2 at komplett costs 320 euros = $408 and I doubt adding on tax to $300 at newegg will make the diffence.

Currencies are always confusing anyway, it depends entirely on currencies being strong and exports and imports.

The system you suggested comes out to be 1019.02euros at complet (excluding the graphics card because there are no 7800gts at komplett).

You have a point with the power supply though. The fortron source is 63euros compared to the cooler master's 118euros. If the fortron source is a good make and reliable, that would make a big difference to the price. Remember though, the pentium d is quite demanding in power and a good power supply will protect your system from damage and support upgrades. Being quite conservative you need over 389W power in your system. So in theory, the 400w supply could handle it.

 

[hashv2f16]

Thanks guys for the help its been really usefull just a few questions
1.So the Intel D805 seems great value whats its perfromance like compared to equivalent amd chip and is it Quiet
2.I cant really afford more than $1000 so do I really need 2gb of ram.What would be better 1gb ram 7900gt or 2gb ram 7600gt
3.Thanks kholonar for checking the website Im buying off http://www.komplett.ie/k/k.asp and picking out the parts they look great and I will model my new rig around them.If you could help me knock it down to €1000 without losing too much I would really appreciate it.

IF you're planning on buying AMD today: I would get 1GB of cheapo DDR400 RAM, skimp on the mobo and the CPU as much as possible. Get the 7900GT.
Because 6 weeks or so after this you are going to go back to wherever you bought that from and get a nice mobo and decent AM2 CPU, with 2GB DDR2.

 

[linux_0]

If you need a PC right now and you need it for gaming AMD64 S939 is your best bet.

If you can wait a little while you will be able to get a much better PC in a few weeks or months as AMD and Intel release their new 65nm CPUs.

I believe those CPUs and associated price drops are worth waiting for!

 

[linux_0]

you are 100% correct ,but his comp is dead.

Then AMD64 S939 is your best bet:

Something like this perhaps?

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=3284868

http://spare2.com/gaming.html

About $639 before shipping.

About $670 delivered.

It's even cheaper in Euros except for VAT and European prices but still a lot less than 1200 Euros

You could easily substitute an X1900 series card in there or use your existing AGP or PCI-E VGA card since this motherboard has both!

Good Luck :-D

PS This board can upgrade to AM2 as well :-D

 

[linux_0]

pcie support is limited to the x300,only on that board ,as listed by asrock.
Unless i found the wrong link on their site,id say that sucks azzzz wayyyyy bad.I am doing that board as a stepping stone ,unless i am mistaken about pcie support on it.
great pricing btw,id go with a better psu tho,i am getting a hiper 500w modular.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRatingReview.asp?Item=N82E16813157081

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/939Dual-SATA2

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=355&num=1

It supports virtually all AGP and PCI-E cards. You are not limited to x300 only.