Take an economics course and you might discover the concept of "supply and demand."
Yo! The only person around here who gets to swing the Economics e.P3ni$ is ME!
Perhaps YOU should learn about the concept of SUPPLY first, and focus on things like single line production costs, and economies of scale, and then the adoption curve and variable costs versus variable pricing, and especially something strongly related to the adoption curve and this situation allocation pricing.
For nV and ATi both would PREFER that there only be PCIe, however the reality is that there are still alot of AGP owners out there with limited PCIe upgrade paths (especially AthlonXP owners who have no path), so the reality is that there is still some demand out there for top end card for some of those people. But for some if the price (or overall cost depend on how you consider the factors) of the AGP variant is more than that of a PCIe equipped Mobo (for their CPU socket) and the equivalent or better PCIe card, then the motivation to remain with AGP is not an economic one but a psychological one.
When the GF7800GS initially launched, anyone still on an AMD64 platform thinking of buying one would be doing so for purely psychological reasons since there were S754 and S939 and S940 MoBo out there for less than the price difference between a GF7800GS and a TRUE GF7800GT, so the better move was to change both at the same time for less money.
Anywhoo, AGP is in it's dying days, and while most of us expected no new AGP cards (as was stated by both ATi and nV) this addition of the GF7800GS series was not something that even nV seemed to have on the radar for quite some time.
AGP as a high end option is pretty much dead, and for more than just economic reasons, but for bridge speed reasons. The GF7900GT based GS is extremely expensive, and probably by the next generation people will be considering whether it makes much sense to spend even that level of money for an AGP card when they'll be comparing their rigs to Conroe and AM2 rigs.
Anywhoo, the history of PCIe graphics is marked by 2 significant moments, A) the collosal failure of prescott B) the resulting lack of PCIe MoBos in the market making ATi and nV launch second generation AGP cards after their planned withdrawl from that market space. Both of those things greatly impacted the longevity of AGP and the feeling that there's still legs left in it. If Prescott had been the hit that Conroe appears to be I'm certain things would be much different and far closer to ATi and nV's original plans of abandoning AGP alltogether.
For a pure economic perspective PCIe-only makes more sense. But the market realities show that it's not just about the economics in this situation far too many other factors got involved along the way, but the only one that still remains is pretty much psychological on both the consumer side and the producers side.
I never said the AGP market was growing cleeve. I said it was still quite large. You might learn if you read a response carefully.
Read the reply carefully too. What your argument will hing on in that case is the semantics of the a 'quite large' market. How big is that? Compared to a PPU market? PCI graphics market? Or compared to the much MUCH larger PCIe market. The AGP market is quite small in comparison and what you seem to be neglecting is that AGP owner =/= future AGP buyer. Many current AGP owner will simply be upgrading everything and while proponents of AGP like to continue the myth that they're all looking for another AGP card, the reality is that more and more are moving to PCIe. There are still many people who have and will buy AGP, but that market is no only shrinking it's already pretty small in comparsion.
You forgot to add the cost of a new motherboard and CPU with that 7600GT.
You forgot that in many cases you don't need a new CPU, just a new MoBo. So like my previous Caveat said, it depends on the situation (pretty much left with AXP [and P3 and first gen P4 :roll: ] users for the 'must upgrade MoBo+CPU').
I said any card over $300 is overpriced, but to have it available for consumers is the market reacting to demand.
Overpriced is not for you to decide, you should know that if you know your economics, it simply doesn't mean your price point. But it is the market reacting to demand, but if that's also the case, then it's price reacting to their costs, and showing the fragility of the curve for such a product in an ever decreasing market. If they made a $2,000 G80 it may be a reaction to demand, but the sales may be a factor of the reaction to that price. It's existance does not prove that production or pricing are justified, only if they sell enough to balance equilibrium is that proven.
I can tell you're all into the Sysmark and test numbers that all the websites conduct. It doesn't really matter. Real world user experience is what counts
I can tell that's a BS defence of someone who has no facts to support their statement.
Subjective opinions do not hold the weight of objective results in an exploration of facts and a debate of hardware. If I say my 'experience' is that the FX5200 plays Oblivion amazingly well that doesn't mean much when it's not put into some kind of objective context. If by amazingly well I mean, after the patch I can see the game, and I'm interested in the gameplay more than IQ and FPS, then that's of little importance when comparing graphics solutions that are focused on just that.
Review sites are far more important to most objective consumers than subjective opinions of a handful of people who may be influenced by personal bias. You can argue your feelings 'til your blue in the face, but without something objective to back it up you've got not basis to suppor your hypothesis.
Being a slave to fashion (or in this case the leading edge) is just wasting money.
Far better to be on the leading edge than to waste your money on the trailing edge. You're a slave to the past in the same sense that any early adopter may be a slave to the upgrade bug. However his choice will likely cost him less over the long run as his options in 1 years time are far greater than yours, and the resale value of the purchase is likely more too (although there's always a sucker out there for everything so who knows
).
Fact of the matter is, that the upgrade path on the AGP card is far more limited than the upgrade pathon the PCIe card. GW's got the best option available to AGP owners IMO, whereas the PCIe owner will have the opportunity for Conroe that doesn't appear to have AGP in it's future, not to mention the generations after these.
For anyone buying now I'd never recommend AGP. But for anyone who's already purchased a card there's no need to upgrade just for the slot. It's all about the options and the wise use of the money you have. For some people that was the AGP route, but the further we get into the future the less that will be true.
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