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Upgraded Cell Processor

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May 24, 2006 9:22:55 AM

In an interview with Ken Kutaragi he says that thay will migrate the
Cell Processor to 45nm , 32 nm process to cosume less power and can reach an astonishing 4.6 upto 5+ GHz wow thats awesome I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team
May 24, 2006 9:26:41 AM

Quote:
I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team


Nothing because you can't change clock speeds once you've released a console.
May 24, 2006 9:41:51 AM

Quote:
I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team


Nothing because you can't change clock speeds once you've released a console.

and for sure it won't be overclockable! :) 
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May 24, 2006 9:44:12 AM

Hopefully it will allow them to release a PS3 normal-size-edition for $400 or less.
May 24, 2006 9:57:18 AM

Wow...those Cell processor are promising. It could outperform the mid range and some of the best cpu today!

I'm going to buy one for an entertainment center.

Anyways the price is $499 USD.
May 24, 2006 10:11:40 AM

Quote:
Wow...those Cell processor are promising. It could outperform the mid range and some of the best cpu today!

I'm going to buy one for an entertainment center.

Anyways the price is $499 USD.

I'm hoping that K10 is what Cell could have been.
May 24, 2006 10:11:40 AM

Quote:
Wow...those Cell processor are promising. It could outperform the mid range and some of the best cpu today!

I'm going to buy one for an entertainment center.

Anyways the price is $499 USD.

where can you buy cell processors with the corresponding ram/motherboard7... . I thought they were only inside the ps3
May 24, 2006 10:12:28 AM

Quote:
Wow...those Cell processor are promising. It could outperform the mid range and some of the best cpu today!

I'm going to buy one for an entertainment center.

Anyways the price is $499 USD.

where can you buy cell processors with the corresponding ram/motherboard7... . I thought they were only inside the ps3
You can pick up a dev kit for 20G
May 24, 2006 10:26:04 AM

No, what I mean is buy a PS3 for an entertainment setup since my older dvd player is started to be crappy.

Im sure this Cell processors will be out for pc use and alike sometime in the near future, bringing new competition to Intel and AMD.

Can you say Cell fanboi!!!
May 24, 2006 10:49:13 AM

Quote:
Wow...those Cell processor are promising. It could outperform the mid range and some of the best cpu today!

I'm going to buy one for an entertainment center.

Anyways the price is $499 USD.

where can you buy cell processors with the corresponding ram/motherboard7... . I thought they were only inside the ps3
You can pick up a dev kit for 20G
it just kinda busts my budget; but still- thanks
May 24, 2006 11:01:43 AM

It sounds good but best to wait and see. If Intel and amd had another CPU agenst Amd and Intel it will Lower Prices. And bring in better stuff for us. A battle between cpus. Amd, Intel and Cell.

But we can only hope.
May 24, 2006 8:15:28 PM

Wait and see for what? Cell will never be released for desktop. It'd be slower and more expensive, woot!
May 29, 2006 7:40:32 PM

Quote:
Cell will never be released for desktop. It'd be slower and more expensive, woot!


You're right, the Cell probably won't be desktop CPU. However, it wouldn't be a stretch to turn the PS3 into a PC-like computer for those less computer-saavy. It runs Linux already - has networking - USB/Firewire are simple to add - HD is built in. PS3 laptop anybody?

Regardless, the Cell kicks ass in scientific computing. Itanium - blah. Opteron - blah. Even Cray - blah.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32006
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~samw/projects/cell/CF06.pdf
May 29, 2006 8:13:55 PM

Please, if Intel doesn't have 45nm available for retail sale, there's no way IBM will anytime soon.
May 29, 2006 8:54:28 PM

I can think of one company that aren’t averse to dumping an old CPU architecture or even O/S for that matter. Maybe Apple could to a two for the price of one deal next time and shift O/S and CPU architecture simultaneously. iCell & iLux :D 
May 29, 2006 8:59:01 PM

hmmm psp is "overclockable". It has a soft-lock, locking it at 222, if you unlock it runs at 333. It's not a true overclock, but possible...
May 29, 2006 9:55:30 PM

Quote:
Im sure this Cell processors will be out for pc use and alike sometime in the near future, bringing new competition to Intel and AMD.


Never going to happen. Even if you get one, it will only ever run Linux so its not like you'll be able to play games with one). You could emulate Windows but it still won't be able to run fast enough. They'll probably get to 45nm about the same time as Intel will.

And the SPEs are not cores. They can not schedule their own tasks. They can only be told what to do and return the result.

And so what if it can hit 5GHz. So can Netburst but its still sucks at those frequencies compared to a much lower clocked AMD64. And the PowerPC core of the Cell is a much crappier processor than anything Intel or AMD has.
May 29, 2006 9:55:55 PM

Quote:
In an interview with Ken Kutaragi he says that thay will migrate the
Cell Processor to 45nm , 32 nm process to cosume less power and can reach an astonishing 4.6 upto 5+ GHz wow thats awesome I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team


Additionally it should be noted that the PS3 is vaporware, most noticeably was the pictures shot at this last E3 showing the Wii was nothing more than a Game Cube running the Wii API, and the PS3 is being emulated off an unknown PC configuration.

So yaa for Sony and their little baby that puts out a bit too much heat for the PS3 form factor and like the Emotion Engine is very task specific, code sensitive, compiler dependant POS that is pure hype and frankly another Sony pipedream.
May 29, 2006 10:04:02 PM

Keep in mind that the instruction set for the cell processor is tailored for gaming. I'm not even sure if the cell supports SSE3.

Also, it's an 'untested' architecture. It's promising, yes, but until applied to real-word applications, we won't know the true benefits and pitfalls.

Like the Conroe, it's really best to just give it a real-wold review before boasting about its superiority.
May 29, 2006 10:05:02 PM

Quote:
In an interview with Ken Kutaragi he says that thay will migrate the
Cell Processor to 45nm , 32 nm process to cosume less power and can reach an astonishing 4.6 upto 5+ GHz wow thats awesome I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team


Additionally it should be noted that the PS3 is vaporware, most noticeably was the pictures shot at this last E3 showing the Wii was nothing more than a Game Cube running the Wii API, and the PS3 is being emulated off an unknown PC configuration.

So yaa for Sony and their little baby that puts out a bit too much heat for the PS3 form factor and like the Emotion Engine is very task specific, code sensitive, compiler dependant POS that is pure hype and frankly another Sony pipedream.

Actualy the Wii was inside the game cube case but that story DID get printed and later retracted :(  lol
May 29, 2006 10:06:34 PM

Quote:
In an interview with Ken Kutaragi he says that thay will migrate the
Cell Processor to 45nm , 32 nm process to cosume less power and can reach an astonishing 4.6 upto 5+ GHz

Lol, notice he doesn't say when they'll be doing that?

They can't even get good yields on Cell at 90nm, and if you thought prescott was hot... hehe.

Every manufacturer plans to go to 45 and 32 nm, that is nature of the industry.
May 29, 2006 10:26:57 PM

I remember reading an article on Gizmodo about seeing a Cell CPU simultaneously decoding 48 HD signals. Can anyone tell me if that's true?
May 29, 2006 10:38:02 PM

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Lol, notice he doesn't say when they'll be doing that?
Whenever it is, it'll definitely be after Intel has their 45nm and 32nm process.
May 29, 2006 10:47:50 PM

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Regardless, the Cell kicks ass in scientific computing. Itanium - blah. Opteron - blah. Even Cray - blah.


No it doesn't. Its DP performance is average, xenon/waternoose has the same DP performance and its much cheaper to make. It has good SP FP but who uses that for scientific work?
May 29, 2006 11:07:31 PM

i saw something that Cell couldnt do mathimatical calculations to fast and was only really a graphical prossesing powerhouse. Like its mathmatical power (doing calculations like physics and what not) is only equal to a Pentium 3
ill try to find the article but it is kinda old..i think it was actually on Toms..
May 29, 2006 11:09:18 PM

Thank you.... finally someone who agrees with me. The cell isnt a magical wonder, our dual cores of today would rip it to shreads and then some. The only reason why this cell is getting so much light shed on it is because sony is hyping it up, just like they hyped the "emmotion engine"....
May 30, 2006 1:26:09 AM

Quote:
Im sure this Cell processors will be out for pc use and alike sometime in the near future, bringing new competition to Intel and AMD.


Never going to happen. Even if you get one, it will only ever run Linux so its not like you'll be able to play games with one). You could emulate Windows but it still won't be able to run fast enough. They'll probably get to 45nm about the same time as Intel will.

And the SPEs are not cores. They can not schedule their own tasks. They can only be told what to do and return the result.

And so what if it can hit 5GHz. So can Netburst but its still sucks at those frequencies compared to a much lower clocked AMD64. And the PowerPC core of the Cell is a much crappier processor than anything Intel or AMD has.

well, if nobody told you before, linux IS an operating system and it can do a lot of things, did you know? This forum you're posting could be running on linux. The e-mail you check or your bank account, whatever. Also, on linux you can browse the web, listen to mp3, watch and encode dvd's/mp3, like i do, and a hell lot of other stuff, so...... it would be awesome if it could reach a pc or something, running a database with a cell @5ghz or whatever.

life is not only about gaming... at least not mine.
May 30, 2006 1:36:30 AM

I really doubt they would have looked at cell, theres way you could put that thing in a laptop.
May 30, 2006 1:39:17 AM

i doubt it would ever reach desktop market... but i've seen some blade servers using a multi-cell setup
May 30, 2006 2:09:43 AM

Quote:
I wonder what will be the counter of Microsoft Xbox360 team


Nothing because you can't change clock speeds once you've released a console. If I'm not mistaken Microsoft plans to "upgrade," their 360 console with a smaller process (65nm or something) and increase the clock speed slightly.
May 30, 2006 2:30:16 AM

The cell is AMAZING if the console wars were only about proc. power then PS3 would win...BUT the cell is way to powerful for the pityful NV71 bottleneck. Xbox wins because of a lack of bottle necks and a more advanced graphics card (DX10, SM 4.0, Raw power).
May 30, 2006 2:38:54 AM

so, id like to see a link to where it says xb360 uses sm4? also on ps3 using the nv71?

and consoles arent gonna upgrade the clock speeds, smaller process definatly

apparently xb360 wins even before ps3 comes out, well unless u have proof that ps3s best gfx are some how inferior to the xb360 then ur statement is bs

im not being an ass, but id like to see u back up ur statements
May 30, 2006 2:54:35 AM

I never heard they planned on increasing the clockspeed, and I seriously doubt they will; they're reasoning behind the die shrink will probably include, lower manufacturing cost, heat, lower power consumption.
May 30, 2006 3:01:27 AM

sigh im gonna try to find that article on Cell Processors basicly being graphical power house yet only having the power of a PentiumIII when it comes to calculating physics/mathimatical problems, also the fact that all that power is just going to be bottlenecked not by the graphics but because of how Cell runs and how it accesses the memory its just going to cascade/collapse on its ownself (prob 1 of the reasons its been delayed for so long, to fix all the bugs and find an equalibrium)


"Our new PS2 system will have hardware that can run Toy Story Quality graphics with no trouble." -Sony

Remeber when they said that? so yea guys lets just wait and see what it really looks like, i dont belive the demos at E3 espeically with last year fiasco of PS3/Xbox 360 running on Apple G5s....
May 30, 2006 3:19:14 AM

uh... i never saw toy story, but the gran turismo series have damn good graphics
May 30, 2006 3:39:40 AM

I must have misinterperated what I read, so I checked again. And sure enough, I was wrong. What it really said was that the smaller process and manufacturing style might increase the speed in which it performs. Same speed, different architecture. Unless, I'm wrong again. If I am, anyone care to spill the real deal?
May 30, 2006 3:41:35 AM

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If I'm not mistaken Microsoft plans to "upgrade," their 360 console with a smaller process (65nm or something) and increase the clock speed slightly.


Somewhat correct, they're moving to 65nm so they can make big cost savings and have a much cooler cpu, they have no intention of raising the clock. Sony did an excellent job of this with the PS2.

Link.
May 30, 2006 3:43:12 AM

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Remeber when they said that? so yea guys lets just wait and see what it really looks like, i dont belive the demos at E3 espeically with last year fiasco of PS3/Xbox 360 running on Apple G5s....


Yeah because they didn't have final hardware. Did you check out THIS years E3?
May 30, 2006 3:46:29 AM

Quote:
The cell is AMAZING if the console wars were only about proc. power then PS3 would win...BUT the cell is way to powerful for the pityful NV71 bottleneck. Xbox wins because of a lack of bottle necks and a more advanced graphics card (DX10, SM 4.0, Raw power).


FFS the xbox 360 isnt DX 10 and it isnt SM4. Its DX 9 and SM3+. The PS3 has a G71 @ 550mhz.
May 30, 2006 3:55:51 AM

IBM and Apple were heading in different directions. They'd consider the POWER 6 before the cell but it (power 6) seems more like a server and workstation cpu then anything else.
May 30, 2006 5:32:04 AM

Actually the cell has been thoroughly tested, it's not good for much outside of PS3, is a RISC architecture, and hence won't be coming to PCs, as it will NEVER, EVER support Windows. you can however, run Linux on it.
May 30, 2006 6:59:19 AM

Cell isn't really all it's made out to be. I've had some hands on time with the hardware, and it's just the "emotion effect" all over again. It's nice to see american made hardware prevail :D 
May 30, 2006 11:04:33 AM

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It's nice to see american made hardware prevail

what you mean by that? now toshiba and sony are american companies, maybe?
May 30, 2006 12:34:36 PM

Quote:
well, if nobody told you before, linux IS an operating system and it can do a lot of things, did you know? This forum you're posting could be running on linux. The e-mail you check or your bank account, whatever. Also, on linux you can browse the web, listen to mp3, watch and encode dvd's/mp3, like i do, and a hell lot of other stuff, so...... it would be awesome if it could reach a pc or something, running a database with a cell @5ghz or whatever.

life is not only about gaming... at least not mine.


Thank you for that groundbreaking news. My point is why would anyone pay a premium for a Cell chip to run Linux on a personal machine when they could get an Intel or AMD processor at way cheaper of a price. You don't need a ton of computational power to run an email server, browse the web, or listen to mp3s. Sure encoding DVDs would benefit, but at what price point.

Cell is a pointless chip to have inside of a personal computer other than to say, "I've got a Cell."
May 30, 2006 12:43:54 PM

Quote:
Cell is a pointless chip to have inside of a personal computer other than to say, "I've got a Cell."

well, a FX-62, a pair of X1900 are pointless chip/cards to have inside a computer, but there seem to have some people that buy them just to say: "i have a FX-62 or a pair of X1900"

also, i was trying to say that this processor could have some uses outside the ps3, as you were saying it was useless as it couldnt run windows, just linux.

if you're interest, you can search google for: cell processor blade server

also, the way you said, sounded like linux is useless in a home computer, but that's not what happens, as i use linux at home for 6 years.
May 30, 2006 1:59:14 PM

I don't think Linux is useless, just useless to me. I play games on my home computer and you can't do that in Linux. Then theres the added aggravation of dealing with Linux since the support is non-existent. Plus the fact that a lot of the different versions of Linux each use their own commands, interfaces, etc. It's really annoying to have to learn 3-4 different ways of doing things. They need to standardize the shit if they ever expect it to become mainstream.
May 30, 2006 2:08:08 PM

Quote:
The cell is AMAZING if the console wars were only about proc. power then PS3 would win...BUT the cell is way to powerful for the pityful NV71 bottleneck. Xbox wins because of a lack of bottle necks and a more advanced graphics card (DX10, SM 4.0, Raw power).


FFS the xbox 360 isnt DX 10 and it isnt SM4. Its DX 9 and SM3+. The PS3 has a G71 @ 550mhz.

Yeah I'm gonna call BS on that statement... DX9 is dependant upon Windows Binaries, so no, the 360 doesn't support or use DX9. A subset of D3D, probably, with some features borrowed from the DX architecture. You're talking apples and oranges, though. DX9 is built for x86. XBOX 360 uses a PPC platform. It's not to say it's not possible to build for PPC, but I doubt they did.

Also, there are reasons why cell processors haven't come out yet. Think about it for a second, from a server-standpoint where multi-threaded performance has been a concern for YEARS, where the desktop market is just starting to look at this seriously.

For starters, there's a great deal of overhead in managing and distributing tasks to individual cells. This means a really fat bus, and shared registers. You're talking managing hardware thread affinity, thread-safety, and delegation. The cell processor is a GREAT candidate for games, where each cell can, say, handle the AI and rendering of a single plane in a fleet, but the application needs to be designed with the cell in mind. For example, loading MS word would probably be handled by a single cell, maybe 2 (one for IO). Now that cell is going to be running at a FRACTION of a "Core" as we've grown to know them.

So as GPU's have seen, single-instruction SIMD engines are good for applications where you can easily partition the work, but even IF the cell came to the desktop, you couldn't even re-compile the app, you'd have to basically re-write it and how it handles threads.
May 30, 2006 2:13:58 PM

oh, okay, but there's this big problem when generalizing your case... you can use your computer primarily for games, but that i's not everyone else's case. You cant assume other people are like you.

Quote:
Plus the fact that a lot of the different versions of Linux each use their own commands, interfaces, etc. It's really annoying to have to learn 3-4 different ways of doing things. They need to standardize the **** if they ever expect it to become mainstream.

hmmm that is absolutely wrong. The great majority of linux commands are the same across distributions. The difference between the distributions are the programs each one chooses to ship with, the packaging system, things like that.

The problem with linux reaching mainstream are the people... People are used to use windows, they started using a computer with windows... it's pretty hard to convice people to change their habits.
and there's the game niche, of course.
May 30, 2006 2:23:23 PM

Quote:
It has good SP FP but who uses that for scientific work?


Nobody, but that's why the paper suggested a DP version of the Cell. The current die size of the CPU is about the same as a Penitum D, but adding double precision could jack that up.

Using the x86 architecture is not a good idea for scientific computing (hence the Itanium/SSE/AltiVec). The Cell CPU at least has fast vector/matrix friendly operations.
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