Sad part of AM2....

[oenomel]

I've been an AMD 'fanboy' for years.

I always pull for the underdog....and besides that I knew enough to know that Intel was putting out crap. the crap part became even clearer when a good friend of mine got into the chip design world (Carnegie Mellon...adv masters etc...) worked for DEC, NEC, Compaq, then started into the IPO world, just as the bubble started bursting. During this time he had Intel headhunters pursuing him......The main part of the conversation that I remember is when I asked him if he was going to Intel.......

He said...

"I should..........but they make crap."

He refused the beast....and has done fine for himself...

Shame is...

AMD is high on crack with the pricing....

They HAD a dedicatd user base. Then they market the AM2 socket at a higher price point for less performance (I'm sorry, but having to buy the BEST DDR2 to get equal....that's LESS than 939 for the price). Especially when they know the Conroe truck is headed their way....

As a faithful AMD'r I just wish they remembered how they got where they are.....price vs performance.

They finally start making the share holder happy....then turn into Intel.

Fanboy or Not......

I will not pay more for less.

That's esactly what AM2 is at this point.

 

[Atolsammeek]

Intel had the same problem when they frist change to ddr2. So both companys had the same problem. Besides when conroe comes out. Hopefully it will drop Amd prices.

 

[1Tanker]

Intel had the same problem when they frist change to ddr2. So both companys had the same problem. Besides when conroe comes out. Hopefully it will drop Amd prices.

AMD can't afford to drop prices enough to compete with Intel. Everyone

seems to think, these big price cuts are imminent. AMD doesn't WANT to

loose market share back to INTEL, but if they try to compete with INTEL,

they will get buried. Intel, would love AMD to "try" and compete. INTEL

has alot of wiggle room, don't think they've gone as low as they can. If they

have to, they can lower more, AMD can't. INTEL fans, are looking at

true "bargain" prices, AMD fans won't be.

 

[Pippero]

Guys, company pricing strategies are dictated by strict marketing rules, not by ethics or traditions or desire to please a fan base.
AMD has the performance lead and has established its branding, so it charges a premium for its CPUs (especially the fastest ones).
Sure they'll lose the crown right round the corner.. and then it's when their prices will plummet.
But until then, they'll try to get as much cash as they can with their current CPU.
Cause the only people who'll delay the purchase of a computer based on benchmarks of a product which is yet to come, are tech enthusiasts which make only a tiny portion of the market.
If an enterprise needs to buy 1000 PCs today, they wont wait 2 months for Conroe or for AM2 price drop.

 

[Pippero]

I agree with you, and find it kinda scary.
AMD has enjoyed a leading or competitive position for many years, but couldn't take full advantage of it, for lack of reputation / branding, production facilities, and to a lesser degree, stability in the partner platform solutions (mobos and chipsets).
Now it was finally the point when AMD was seriously worrying Intel and starting to hit them where it hurts, they had the product and the market acceptance, but Intel is gonna go all out on them on performance AND price..
And with IBM completely out of the PC hw business, i dont really see who could possibly save them.

 

[1Tanker]

I agree with you, and find it kinda scary.
AMD has enjoyed a leading or competitive position for many years, but couldn't take full advantage of it, for lack of reputation / branding, production facilities, and to a lesser degree, stability in the partner platform solutions (mobos and chipsets).
Now it was finally the point when AMD was seriously worrying Intel and starting to hit them where it hurts, they had the product and the market acceptance, but Intel is gonna go all out on them on performance AND price..
And with IBM completely out of the PC hw business, i dont really see who could possibly save them.

Maybe they should start kissing Bill Gates butt. M$ would be a nice ally
to have. They could agree to incorporate every DRM, and anti-piracy
type function into every chip. Gates would love it.

 

[hashv2f16]

AM2 is just setting up a broader foundation on which to base their next generation. performance decrease during the transition? - sit out a few months!
why they are taking up their pricing? i guess its: because they can. either that or they are running out of money. i guess it's not cheap to design, reinvent and perfect a whole set of processors and the things that go with them (e.g heatsinks, retention mechanisms, chipsets, dealing w/ manufacturers etc.)

 

[MasterLee]

I guess it's difficult for them to see the "BIG PICTURE", to remember what has happened in the past, the NForce-NForce 2, or 754 to 939, back to back releases that did nothing but screw things up and confuse the already confused.
With things the way they are, not knowing what motherboards will really work with the new Intel CPUs is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.
AMD said there would be little boost in performance with the 1st release of AM2 so why all of the crying ? Are you guys complete morons ? Evidently you are, and just like some women too, you just want what you want, you don't care what it takes to get it.

 

[1Tanker]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

 

[jkflipflop98]

I can personally guarantee you AMD will never, ever go totally out of business. Ever.

 

[frostys]

if they were to, i'm sure all the fanboys would rally together to buy them out

If Intel Fanboy whant to have low price for long, they should run for it too. Getting a player out of the game won<t be good for the customer. Monopolistic marketing would bring high price fo sure no matter the performance

 

[rodney_ws]

Doesn't the law of supply and demand dictate this stuff to a large degree?

Think about the FX60/62 that none of us will pay $1000+ for... well, guess what... AMD sells that chip at that price because obviously some of us ARE willing to pay that price. Does it cost that much to make that CPU? Certainly not. Is AMD making mad money of it? Bet on it. A better product will almost always carry a higher price once the market has accepted it as the superior product.

Yes, Intel does have the luxury of being the larger manufacturer... and its large volume does help it lower costs (think about Wal-Mart!!!) For this reason, Intel can adjust its pricing up OR down depending on how competitive its products are... in times when Intel has inferior products it can lower its prices without killing its bottom line... when it has superior products (think 1995-1999) it doesn't have to compete on a price point. AMD, although I'm sure it has some room to go up or down, doesn't have as much ability to lower prices... if a price war breaks out, AMD loses. Look at the 800/900 series of processors... man, those are some seriously cheap processors... dual core for $130?!? That's crazy... but for that round Intel had the inferior product. My main concern is that demand for Conroe will cause Intel to raise prices across the board because they know we're all willing to pay for a superior product. The initial pricing listed for Conroe says it's going to be a killer value. And in case anyone forgot... value = features & performance / price. For a chip to have a higher value, it's either gotta add more features and performance or has to have a lower price.

That's just the way the world works right? Why complain about it?

 

[MasterLee]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

See, that's what I mean.......MORON Tanker, Chipset/Motherboard is for the new one coming.
Still not reading damn, the new one is coming, try retaining some information.
Half reading, memory leaking guys like you put a damper on these forums.

 

[cubicleslave]

As a faithful AMD'r I just wish they remembered how they got where they are.....price vs performance.

If they have to, they can lower more, AMD can't. INTEL fans, are looking at true "bargain" prices, AMD fans won't be.

Bang on. Those were what made AMD so great back in the days(and why I bought a Barton) and now Intel is using that against them.

This all really goes to show, both AMD and Intel are in business to make money, not to provide a public service or serve some other noble purpose. AMD is playing the underdog card, and they have milked that for all it's worth for many years. Now that they (perhaps temporarily) have the superior product, they show their true colors. Just out for money! If you are a fanboy of either company, you're doing yourself a huge disservice. Just vote with your wallet for whoever provides the best product. Don't know if anyone remembers, but how did Microsoft start out? Bill Gates was the media darling. Microsoft was David, and IBM was Goliath. Microsoft was good, and IBM was big, bureaucratic, and EVIL. Everyone rooted for little Wonder Boy Bill with his boyish grin. Gates shrewdly played the underdog card, and look what we have today? Who is the monster, and who has completely exited the PC business? AMD is angling for the same trajectory. They want to become the next Intel, and they owe it to themselves and their shareholders to do that. All I'm saying is, don't be a fanboy. Just look out for numero uno. With all that said, I would say that anyone who buys an FX-60 or a pentium EE for a thousand bucks today will probably find themselves left "holding the bag" in a couple of months, after Conroe has come out, assuming the projected pricing and the benchmarks are true.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Don't ever piss off the man.

 

[clue69less]

They way Intel is going, this agressively, the pricing on Core 2 as it comes out, it looks to me they are going after AMD to drive them out of business. This is just my opinion, but wow... prices, performance, etc. this is gonna put some pressure on AMD don't think it will not.

In football, they say: "That's why they play the game." And I expect it will be similar here and don't think of AMD as being in a last-gasp situation just yet. Look at how long Apple survived in spite of all the huge bad decisions made along the way. Besides, I'm not at all certain that the 65nm AMD CPUs won't be able to compete. It's a wait and see sitch.

edit: I forgot to say: Talking about pressure, think of life in the RAM industry right now. I was talking to a memory engineer the other day and he said the scramble is approaching fury pace. New demands, new test rigs, new tweaks to existing QC parameters. It's no slam dunk.

 

[1Tanker]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

See, that's what I mean.......MORON Tanker, Chipset/Motherboard is for the new one coming.
Still not reading damn, the new one is coming, try retaining some information.
Half reading, memory leaking guys like you put a damper on these forums.
Are you, by chance, related to Mad Mod Mike? Calling me names, doesn't

make you RIGHT, or mean you WIN. JEEZ. Some people. I think the

damper comes from guys like you. I bet you're the kind of person, that

if you get caught speeding, and the cop shows you his RADAR gun, you'd

say...."BUT I SAID" my speedo says i wasn't....then rips up the ticket in a

rage and throws it at the cops feet. No People Skills. Nada ,Zip,Zilch,Nil.

Silly me....Judging by your maturity level, you're not old enough to drive.

:roll:

 

[MasterLee]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

See, that's what I mean.......MORON Tanker, Chipset/Motherboard is for the new one coming.
Still not reading damn, the new one is coming, try retaining some information.
Half reading, memory leaking guys like you put a damper on these forums.
Are you, by chance, related to Mad Mod Mike? Calling me names, doesn't

make you RIGHT, or mean you WIN. JEEZ. Some people. I think the

damper comes from guys like you. I bet you're the kind of person, that

if you get caught speeding, and the cop shows you his RADAR gun, you'd

say...."BUT I SAID" my speedo says i wasn't....then rips up the ticket in a

rage and throws it at the cops feet. No People Skills. Nada ,Zip,Zilch,Nil.

Silly me....Judging by your maturity level, you're not old enough to drive.

:roll:

LOL, now that's comedy, I must've stuck a nerve, at least you read FULLY this time.
Whether I called you something or not you still didn't read........and....
I don't speed on the street, I'm a motorcycle drag racer and I've been at speeds in the quarter that would make you cry......
And I'm probably old enough to be your father........
And you deserved it for coming back at me and not reading what I wrote.
Bet you'll read things twice from now on before you reply.

 

[Caboose-1]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

See, that's what I mean.......MORON Tanker, Chipset/Motherboard is for the new one coming.
Still not reading damn, the new one is coming, try retaining some information.
Half reading, memory leaking guys like you put a damper on these forums.
Are you, by chance, related to Mad Mod Mike? Calling me names, doesn't

make you RIGHT, or mean you WIN. JEEZ. Some people. I think the

damper comes from guys like you. I bet you're the kind of person, that

if you get caught speeding, and the cop shows you his RADAR gun, you'd

say...."BUT I SAID" my speedo says i wasn't....then rips up the ticket in a

rage and throws it at the cops feet. No People Skills. Nada ,Zip,Zilch,Nil.

Silly me....Judging by your maturity level, you're not old enough to drive.

:roll:

LOL, now that's comedy, I must've stuck a nerve, at least you read FULLY this time.
Whether I called you something or not you still didn't read........and....
I don't speed on the street, I'm a motorcycle drag racer and I've been at speeds in the quarter that would make you cry......
And I'm probably old enough to be your father........
And you deserved it for coming back at me and not reading what I wrote.
Bet you'll read things twice from now on before you reply. Hey, if we are going to have a war over the internet, at least do it in style, like the pimp Ronald McDonald, he pwns you in the face: http://warwarlol.ytmnd.com/

 

[TheMaster]

I can personally guarantee you AMD will never, ever go totally out of business. Ever.

Yea that's what i thought when i bought my Voodoo card... ahh the days of glide and Wicked GL. D3D and Opengl got nothing on glide. 8)

Anyways, the moral of the story is, nothing lasts forever and one dumbass can bring down an entire company.

 

[1Tanker]

is it not best to have a mature Chipset/Motherboard for a new processor ? AMD thinks so and based on what has happened in the past, I believe they are on the right track.

AM2 isn't really a new processor.

See, that's what I mean.......MORON Tanker, Chipset/Motherboard is for the new one coming.
Still not reading damn, the new one is coming, try retaining some information.
Half reading, memory leaking guys like you put a damper on these forums.
Are you, by chance, related to Mad Mod Mike? Calling me names, doesn't

make you RIGHT, or mean you WIN. JEEZ. Some people. I think the

damper comes from guys like you. I bet you're the kind of person, that

if you get caught speeding, and the cop shows you his RADAR gun, you'd

say...."BUT I SAID" my speedo says i wasn't....then rips up the ticket in a

rage and throws it at the cops feet. No People Skills. Nada ,Zip,Zilch,Nil.

Silly me....Judging by your maturity level, you're not old enough to drive.

:roll:

LOL, now that's comedy, I must've stuck a nerve, at least you read FULLY this time.
Whether I called you something or not you still didn't read........and....
I don't speed on the street, I'm a motorcycle drag racer and I've been at speeds in the quarter that would make you cry......
And I'm probably old enough to be your father........
And you deserved it for coming back at me and not reading what I wrote.
Bet you'll read things twice from now on before you reply.
Speed has never scared me...I used to do 150 m.p.h on my motorcycle,

almost on a daily basis...20 years ago. Same in my car..140+ almost

daily. Top on bike ~153..In car~160... On snowmobile...117m.p.h. on

RADAR, and over 100- 100's of times. I've always been a speed addict.

With the exception of the snowmobile, for obvious reasons, all speeds

were on the street. :?

 

[49ers540]

Can't match Intel burst capacity. That is the point; AMD is going to get buried.

Intel 200mm wafer are practically out the door. They are 90% 300mm with all their fabs. Lets see, Israel has one and another large Fab on the way. Ireland has 1 big Fab and another on the way. Arizona has 3 fabs, all converted to 300mm and running. New Mexico has one. Oregon has 3 fabs all at 300mm and thousands of Acres to expand. All these fabs are cranking out Woodcrest and Conroe and chipsets. All using the best equipment and yielding 99%. Yes, let’s not forget Boston Mass.

Hmmmmmmmmm, how many Fabs does AMD have.
Not enough!

I say the giant has awakened!
When Intel said they are going to win market share back, they mean business.
100,000 employees = lots of good stuff for the consumers.
18,000 employees don’t cut it.

Let me tell you a story. Just a couple of days ago when I was at best buy in Beaverton Oregon; a young lady came in looking to buy 3 computers. The sales person right away pushes AMD down her throat. She literally scream out load and said NO AMD!
Why the sales men ask?
My last AMD went puff up in smoke she replied.
Store manager came by and quickly showed her the Intel computers.
The sales man last attempt and told the lady the Pentium D 930 runs really hot.
She touches the case and said Ice cold, what you talking about Willis!

You see, I hear this type of story all the time, more and more people are shying away from AMD. My CPU fried they exclaim.
With the right heat sink that comes with the Intel processor, it works great, stays at 30C'. Yes my Prescott on 65nm 3 GHz runs that cool. Performance wise, it’s very smooth. Gaming, no issue with a great video card and plenty of ram. You know, call of duty and battlefield 2.

Hey, the King is back.

 

[Caboose-1]

Can't match Intel burst capacity. That is the point; AMD is going to get buried.

Intel 200mm wafer are practically out the door. They are 90% 300mm with all their fabs. Lets see, Israel has.... ect.

**Nods.**

 

[Atolsammeek]

Here what Most of you are forgetting. If and I say if amd went out of buissness. Intel will Jack up prices and who will it hurt? We will get hurt in price as well as preformance. The Sweet Intel prices of $500 or so. Will Sky rocket to a $700 and the high end will go up $1.5k. Then you also forget upgrades every 2 years it would be like every 4 years. Speed of a cpu will slow down and so on.

You need Amd as a balance of price and upgrades. If amd Upgrades something and it faster. Intel going to come back with a upgrade and beat amd.

But I notice Intel fanboys as well as Amd fanboys dont understand this Logic.

 

[Action_Man]

I doubt intel would jack up prices much if that were case. You can only charge people so much and it would open the gates for someone to come in.