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Ok so should i stick with my Athlon 64 X2 (T) 3800+ 2.0 GHz?

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May 28, 2006 5:50:21 AM

Ok so im hearing lots of stuff about this new AM2 and Conroe, but i really dont think i need that since all i'm doing is playing some good PC games (Half Life 2, Doom 3, etc) and i dont think i will need things like those. I personally don't think that there are any programs right now to really take advantage of that stuff.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=1843642&lang=en&docname=c00607960

I am getting that PC on June 4th, i am just wondering, will this PC last me a good 4 Years? i figure that since it uses Socket 939, when the current processor gets really bad, the AMD FX 62 will be cheap by then and i can just pop out the old one and pop that one in. (and by then it should be pretty cheap) so im just asking, should i buy this computer now? I think its a really good value, since im getting it for roughly 700

PS: I have another question, What budget video card would i need to get to turn this pc into a moderate/high level gaming machine? thanks in advanced. Also, im new to the forumz here so be nice!

More about : stick athlon 3800 ghz

a c 473 à CPUs
May 28, 2006 6:31:46 AM

The FX-62 is for AM2 only. The fastest S939 Athlon you can get is the FX-60. Once S939 production ends this year, you can expect AMD to raise the prices of all S939 Athlons to encourage people to transistion to socket AM2. They have done this with the Athlon XP, raising prices to encourage people to switch to the socket S754 Athlon 64.

If you expect to upgrade to the FX-60 in 3 or 4 years expect to pay more then, if any are available. If you can afford a better CPU then get something faster than the 3800+. The Asus A8N-LA is most likely a custom board for HP so don't expect any overclocking capabilities.

As for the GPU, get the nVidia 7600GT for $155 after a mail-in rebate.

If you can afford $265, then get the 7900GT.
That is also after a rebate.

Since the power supply is not listed I will not recommend a highend ATI card since they consume a lot of power.
May 28, 2006 7:54:20 AM

Build your own computer, get some decent cooling equipement and overclock, that'll keep you busy for some time :D 

jaguarskz is right on, you'll need a real GPU if you're into gaming, that lousy intergated video won't cut it.
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May 28, 2006 9:11:11 AM

if you want something to last it may be an idea to jump on the conroe bandwagon, it will offer most likely more performance and thus durability for newer games.

bad thing about conroe is probably limited cpu drop-in upgradeability as intel is not often backwards compatible with newer cpu's and older mainboards...

good thing is that is will be available in less then 2 months and will drive the prices down on both amd/intel cpu's so I'd suggest getting the HP 3800+ system after the conroe launch which should drop it's (amd's) price.

second option I'd recommend you is AM2 as on that socket you can just drop in the 65nm amd cpu's end this year/2007 plug&play style... these should be a bit better then the current 90nm 3800+es as in the system you're buying.


bottom line wait till end july if possible by any means as it should/could be a lot cheaper.

if not go ahead and that system should do fine.
May 28, 2006 10:32:50 AM

You will ALWAYS get better and more powerfull computers the longer u wait. If it aint conroe its somting else.

As others has said if u can wait till after the summer u will prob get more bang for the buck (no u will never "miss" that oportunity on the good deal - there will get new ones cheaper and better).

The integrated solution one the PC u picked lets u to play older games (3-4y old) pretty ok. Dont even think starting oblivion or some new state of the art game on that.

New GPU?
as suggested the 6600GT is good but -7600GT- is what u want now or if u got the gold the 7900GT (all nvidia). Ati's 1800 GTO should also be a good choice parhaps even the x1600XT(?).
May 28, 2006 10:40:07 AM

I agree build your own :-D

You'll get a much better system that way.

If you can wait a few months you will be able to get a much better system for less! :-D

I would advise you to wait for the 65nm AMDs and the new Intels releasing in 2-6 months, especially if you plan to keep your system for 4 years.
May 28, 2006 3:37:50 PM

But, barely any applications take advantage of 64 Bit, and none take advantage of dual core (except games), and im on a tight budget and i cant wait? I'm asking if this + 1 gig more ram + a good GPU would make a good system that would last for 4 years. If not explain how it will not. because from what i have seen this will easily last 4 years.
May 28, 2006 3:44:42 PM

That's a nice system you linked to. Toss a 7900GT in that puppy and you're set. maybe another gig of ram too.

If you're gonna go the distance 4+ years, may as well wait a couple months and get a Core2. It will get ya there.
May 28, 2006 3:51:36 PM

But it's going to be... really... expensive. I think i will just take your other advice and add 1 gig more ram and 7900GT, and lucky for me this takes up to 4 gigs of ram so thats upgradable as well, and socket 939, i can always add the AMD FX 60 yay..!
May 28, 2006 3:53:26 PM

you wont need to upgrade to a fx from that. it would be a waste of cash. spend it on games. Core2 isnt going to be expensive either. half of what an FX chip would run ya.
May 28, 2006 3:56:52 PM

bah, this is why i gate shopping for computers, updated the minute you buy it, but anyway i think this system will last, coupled with some more ram and a good video card. and since this already has the latest tech's like Dual Core and 64 Bit, this should last very long!
May 28, 2006 4:01:02 PM

Go for it. That's a badass system.
May 29, 2006 3:47:11 AM

Quote:
But, barely any applications take advantage of 64 Bit, and none take advantage of dual core (except games), and im on a tight budget and i cant wait? I'm asking if this + 1 gig more ram + a good GPU would make a good system that would last for 4 years. If not explain how it will not. because from what i have seen this will easily last 4 years.



I would say this would be a nice system as OEM systems go :-D

I would be a bit concerned about the PSU.

That system + 1GB RAM + 7900GT would make a nice system but anyone that tells you it is guaranteed to last you 4 years would be lying.

The good news is, it will be upgradeable to an FX-60 or better and you can always upgrade the VGA card :-D

The X2 3800 is a very good choice and it is attractively priced.
May 29, 2006 3:51:03 AM

Thats what i have been saying all this time. This system is extremely upgradable, i can either upgrade to an AMD X2: 4800+ for better application running, or an AMDFX:60 for better game running. either way its a good deal!
May 29, 2006 4:00:47 AM

Quote:
Thats what i have been saying all this time. This system is extremely upgradable, i can either upgrade to an AMD X2: 4800+ for better application running, or an AMDFX:60 for better game running. either way its a good deal!


Not quite a good deal, overclocking can easely bridge the gap between an X2 3800+ and an FX60 (obviously, you can't add cache to a core but it's easy to compensate with a few hundred MHz), unfortunately, I doubt an OEM mobo, crappy PSU and RAM would allow you that kind of headroom.
May 29, 2006 4:04:54 AM

Quote:
Thats what i have been saying all this time. This system is extremely upgradable, i can either upgrade to an AMD X2: 4800+ for better application running, or an AMDFX:60 for better game running. either way its a good deal!


Not quite a good deal, overclocking can easely bridge the gap between an X2 3800+ and an FX60 (obviously, you can't add cache to a core but it's easy to compensate with a few hundred MHz), unfortunately, I doubt an OEM mobo, crappy PSU and RAM would allow you that kind of headroom.
i already reasearched that you can only overclock it to 2.4, compared to the standard 2.0, and if you just download the latest bios update you can overclock, since this is a modified version of the Asus board.
May 29, 2006 4:14:24 AM

Quote:
Thats what i have been saying all this time. This system is extremely upgradable, i can either upgrade to an AMD X2: 4800+ for better application running, or an AMDFX:60 for better game running. either way its a good deal!


Not quite a good deal, overclocking can easely bridge the gap between an X2 3800+ and an FX60 (obviously, you can't add cache to a core but it's easy to compensate with a few hundred MHz), unfortunately, I doubt an OEM mobo, crappy PSU and RAM would allow you that kind of headroom.
i already reasearched that you can only overclock it to 2.4, compared to the standard 2.0, and if you just download the latest bios update you can overclock, since this is a modified version of the Asus board.

I am nearly 100% positive you wont be able to OC OR flash the BIOS with anything other then the HP BIOS for that mobo... I have two Compaq's here with Asus mobo's (amazingly close to the ones you link....) and I tried for a few weeks with modbin and some other BIOS hacking tools... all for nothing.
May 29, 2006 4:21:11 AM

Quote:

Not quite a good deal, overclocking can easely bridge the gap between an X2 3800+ and an FX60 (obviously, you can't add cache to a core but it's easy to compensate with a few hundred MHz), unfortunately, I doubt an OEM mobo, crappy PSU and RAM would allow you that kind of headroom.

i already reasearched that you can only overclock it to 2.4, compared to the standard 2.0, and if you just download the latest bios update you can overclock, since this is a modified version of the Asus board.

Seems like you are trying to justify a bad buy despite all odds, why settle with a mere 20% OC when '06 Manchester cores got a whole lot more untapped potential than that ?
May 29, 2006 6:37:21 AM

because it costs less? if money weren't a issue then i would just buy all of the latest stuff, however im not bill gates so i cant do that..
May 29, 2006 11:27:47 AM

Quote:
because it costs less? if money weren't a issue then i would just buy all of the latest stuff, however im not bill gates so i cant do that..


Here's a very similar config for about $1028 delivered from newegg.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWis...

http://spare2.com/05292006_1k.html

This is just for the hardware. With better hardware I might add.

For about $100 more you can add an Opteron 165 an OC'ing motherboard and Corsair XMS.

Nice 'rig for such a low price, it's a great deal compared to the HP system.
May 29, 2006 11:53:02 AM

Quote:
because it costs less? if money weren't a issue then i would just buy all of the latest stuff, however im not bill gates so i cant do that..


Here's a very similar config for about $1028 delivered from newegg.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWis...

http://spare2.com/05292006_1k.html

This is just for the hardware. With better hardware I might add.

For about $100 more you can add an Opteron 165 an OC'ing motherboard and Corsair XMS.

Nice 'rig for such a low price, it's a great deal compared to the HP system.


Oh ya, I almost forgot..... You need an OS too.....

Linux + BSD + FreeDOS = $0

Never having to deal with M$ = priceless :-D
May 29, 2006 11:57:43 AM

Quote:

Oh ya, I almost forgot..... You need an OS too.....

Linux + BSD + FreeDOS = $0

Never having to deal with M$ = priceless :-D


Hehe ! I saw that one coming ! :lol: 
May 29, 2006 12:23:58 PM

Quote:

Oh ya, I almost forgot..... You need an OS too.....

Linux + BSD + FreeDOS = $0

Never having to deal with M$ = priceless :-D


Hehe ! I saw that one coming ! :lol: 


Hehe :-D :-D

The OP is of course free to choose any OS.

M$ however is anti-choice.
May 29, 2006 1:13:55 PM

Quote:
But, barely any applications take advantage of 64 Bit, and none take advantage of dual core (except games), and im on a tight budget and i cant wait? I'm asking if this + 1 gig more ram + a good GPU would make a good system that would last for 4 years. If not explain how it will not. because from what i have seen this will easily last 4 years.

Since you want it to last longer and do not see any advantage right now of going dual core. Just go with a single core AM2 setup then when you have the cash you can throw in a faster dual core without having to worry about anything else. Anyway here is an idea maybe you could do. After rebates it comes out to about $1025 and will give you a better upgrade path than a 939 system.AM2 pc


That's a great config :-D

But why did you put in an FDD?

I would have suggested Corsair, OCZ or Crucial over G.Skill but hey :-D

:-D :-D
a c 99 à CPUs
May 29, 2006 1:35:32 PM

That computer should last you a around 4 years, unless you game a huge amount- then expect it to last half that I do a lot of very heavy work on my computer and I expect my X2 4200+ machine to last me 3-4 years with minimal upgrades. I used the snot out of my old 2.2 GHz P4-M laptop and it lasted me almost 4 years. I upgraded it pretty much because the dual-core CPUs were getting to reasonable price levels and some of the parts on it were starting to wear out (and are darned expensive to replace- stupid proprietary laptop crap!)

Gaming is one of the toughest things you can do on a computer as it not only requires a fast CPU, RAM, and HDD but also expensive graphics cards that have a shelf-life equivalent to a gallon of milk. I generally do office work and development-type work on my computer, and while compiling is work for the computer, it basically only needs a CPU with decent RAM bandwidth and good FPU performance. Office apps just need a decent monitor and enough RAM to keep a lot of them open of you do that. I also run VMware on my computer and that does give the CPU and HDD a workout and needs a bit of RAM, but it is not as tough as gaming by any means.
a c 99 à CPUs
May 29, 2006 1:45:36 PM

You sound an AWFUL lot like one of my professors- he said the exact same thing about choice: "Linux is about choice- Microsoft is anti-choice." Do you happen to work for or have attended the University of Missouri by chance?
May 29, 2006 2:17:41 PM

Oh ya, I almost forgot..... You need an OS too.....

Not to knock Linux, but you guys are like the old Dos guys, especially after Win2.0 came out. Ya'll have a superiority attitude that isn't deserved. Yes Linux is good. Yes it can be fast. But most of us don't want to have to work to get programs running.
I have good memories of command-line processing. There was the cool-factor of being able to do what other's couldn't, but that was twenty years ago. Today I want the comfort of xp. Stable, fast, and easy. And as for Linux being free, true, But...... How many people on these forums don't have several copies of xp laying around? And how many of these guys can't get it running?

Not to diss you Linux guys, but don't diss us either.
May 29, 2006 2:24:50 PM

Quote:
did floppy cause usually you need it to load your sata drivers. that and it had media card reader as an added bonus.



I pretty much stopped using FDDs years ago.

I've been using CDs, DVDs and other storage devices instead.
May 29, 2006 2:27:59 PM

Quote:
You sound an AWFUL lot like one of my professors- he said the exact same thing about choice: "Linux is about choice- Microsoft is anti-choice." Do you happen to work for or have attended the University of Missouri by chance?



I just cannot say :-D
a c 99 à CPUs
May 29, 2006 2:29:14 PM

Even if we do have copies of XP lying around, unless they are the $199 or $299 full-install-versions, OEM and pirate versions are a pain to try to install on more than one computer as Microsoft has gone to "the user will do as it is told and buy a new copy of XP for every computer it owns or Steve Ballmer will hit it with a chair and sic the BSA on it" with WGA, activation, etc. W2K was a different story, but XP is a PITA to try and share.

Not to mention against the F8 EULA too. Now the EULA might or might not have a chance of standing up in court if you do something that's legal but against the MS EULA like decommission an old PC and migrate the paid OEM version of XP from the old to the new computer, but you'll spend a FORTUNE with the case in court. MSFT has a boatload of money and will simply win that by attrition. If they lost a case and had their EULA terms above and beyond the DMCA and Electronic Software Act of 1976 invalidated, that would pretty much shoot a lot of their forced-purchase revenue stream in the foot. So they can't afford to (and thus won't) lose the case and you and I would have to abide with the restrictions in the EULA.
May 29, 2006 2:37:23 PM

Quote:
Oh ya, I almost forgot..... You need an OS too.....

Not to knock Linux, but you guys are like the old Dos guys, especially after Win2.0 came out. Ya'll have a superiority attitude that isn't deserved. Yes Linux is good. Yes it can be fast. But most of us don't want to have to work to get programs running.
I have good memories of command-line processing. There was the cool-factor of being able to do what other's couldn't, but that was twenty years ago. Today I want the comfort of xp. Stable, fast, and easy. And as for Linux being free, true, But...... How many people on these forums don't have several copies of xp laying around? And how many of these guys can't get it running?

Not to diss you Linux guys, but don't diss us either.



I wasn't dissing anyone, I was expressing an opinion supported by facts.

If you disagree with me please start and new thread and let's have a civilized discussion about it.
May 29, 2006 2:45:56 PM

Quote:
Even if we do have copies of XP lying around, unless they are the $199 or $299 full-install-versions, OEM and pirate versions are a pain to try to install on more than one computer as Microsoft has gone to "the user will do as it is told and buy a new copy of XP for every computer it owns or Steve Ballmer will hit it with a chair and sic the BSA on it" with WGA, activation, etc. W2K was a different story, but XP is a PITA to try and share.

Not to mention against the F8 EULA too. Now the EULA might or might not have a chance of standing up in court if you do something that's legal but against the MS EULA like decommission an old PC and migrate the paid OEM version of XP from the old to the new computer, but you'll spend a FORTUNE with the case in court. MSFT has a boatload of money and will simply win that by attrition. If they lost a case and had their EULA terms above and beyond the DMCA and Electronic Software Act of 1976 invalidated, that would pretty much shoot a lot of their forced-purchase revenue stream in the foot. So they can't afford to (and thus won't) lose the case and you and I would have to abide with the restrictions in the EULA.



No wonder some people compare microsoft to the borg.... :?
a c 99 à CPUs
May 29, 2006 2:51:36 PM

Hmm. I doubt you're that professor as he's not a native-born American and probably doesn't have feelings one way or the other towards the U.S. military, which you certainly seem to be in support of, judging from the branch flags in your signature. I bet that he does not have time to post >1000 posts on TG Forumz either :D 

(I learned the hard way about politics in class when my freshman English teacher asked us to write a paper about our opinions on the Iraq War- I think I would have gotten negative points from him if he could give them out. So I never, but NEVER bring up politics in front of a professor and thus do not know this professor's views on the military. Oh, that and the U.S. military invaded his country and overthrew its government a little while back. I would assume that because of the nature of that government and the fact that their views and slogans are now illegal in that country would say that he would not be upset about that war, but it is a national embarrassment and I would be smart not to bring up the U.S. military in front of him. So I do not know his views.)

But you could be one of his former students, IATS staff, or an MLUG member- somebody who has met him and heard "the speech.: However, I won't out you if you don't want to be outed. I understand the importance of being anonymous on the Net.
May 29, 2006 2:51:47 PM

W2K was a different story, but XP is a PITA to try and share. javascript:emoticon(':?:')
Question

After 120 days xp will activate again without any problems. As for oem copies, I've used Dell xp discs on homebuilts, and even a couple of HP's. I've built or repaired dozens of different computers in the last few years, and there just aren't the problems I keep hearing other people talking about. Windows XP works.
Linux, on the other hand, is a serious pain in the buttocks to get running. Even with a store-bought copy of redhat I had problems. I had less problems back in the seventies using machine code on a DEC8. Finding drivers for my existing stuff was lots of fun. Although I eventually got everything purring along, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, except maybe gearheads with something to prove. If you like it, enjoy. I'm old and lazy, and don't want to have to think about the OS.
May 29, 2006 4:59:24 PM

Quote:
because it costs less? if money weren't a issue then i would just buy all of the latest stuff, however im not bill gates so i cant do that..



Here's a very similar config for about $1028 delivered from newegg.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWis...

http://spare2.com/05292006_1k.html

This is just for the hardware. With better hardware I might add.


For about $100 more you can add an Opteron 165 an OC'ing motherboard and Corsair XMS.

your just proving my point, this computer im getting for 600-700 dollars, where this is 1000 dollars, + i haveto buy Windows XP Media Center edition which is another 200 dollars. tjats 1200 dollars right there when i can get roughly the same computer for 875 dollars.

also you guys are seeming the forget the fact that this is just a normal home computer, that will also play games somwhat. this is not a gaming computer. So is this other stuff isn't needed. in 4 Years i will build the best computer i can with all the latest stuff because by then i will want a computer like that. biut right now i dont so i just have a pretty decent computer.
May 29, 2006 7:12:07 PM

Quote:
Hmm. I doubt you're that professor as he's not a native-born American and probably doesn't have feelings one way or the other towards the U.S. military, which you certainly seem to be in support of, judging from the branch flags in your signature. I bet that he does not have time to post >1000 posts on TG Forumz either :D 

(I learned the hard way about politics in class when my freshman English teacher asked us to write a paper about our opinions on the Iraq War- I think I would have gotten negative points from him if he could give them out. So I never, but NEVER bring up politics in front of a professor and thus do not know this professor's views on the military. Oh, that and the U.S. military invaded his country and overthrew its government a little while back. I would assume that because of the nature of that government and the fact that their views and slogans are now illegal in that country would say that he would not be upset about that war, but it is a national embarrassment and I would be smart not to bring up the U.S. military in front of him. So I do not know his views.)

But you could be one of his former students, IATS staff, or an MLUG member- somebody who has met him and heard "the speech.: However, I won't out you if you don't want to be outed. I understand the importance of being anonymous on the Net.



:?

$me->hate->politics();
May 29, 2006 7:16:57 PM

Quote:
because it costs less? if money weren't a issue then i would just buy all of the latest stuff, however im not bill gates so i cant do that..



Here's a very similar config for about $1028 delivered from newegg.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWis...

http://spare2.com/05292006_1k.html

This is just for the hardware. With better hardware I might add.


For about $100 more you can add an Opteron 165 an OC'ing motherboard and Corsair XMS.

your just proving my point, this computer im getting for 600-700 dollars, where this is 1000 dollars, + i haveto buy Windows XP Media Center edition which is another 200 dollars. tjats 1200 dollars right there when i can get roughly the same computer for 875 dollars.

also you guys are seeming the forget the fact that this is just a normal home computer, that will also play games somwhat. this is not a gaming computer. So is this other stuff isn't needed. in 4 Years i will build the best computer i can with all the latest stuff because by then i will want a computer like that. biut right now i dont so i just have a pretty decent computer.



That includes better hardware than the HP and also includes a nice 7900GT.

There is nothing special about media center.
May 30, 2006 1:49:10 AM

but it costs more, so its pointless....? Of course its going to have better hardware if it costs more.
May 30, 2006 2:07:04 AM

Quote:
but it costs more, so its pointless....? Of course its going to have better hardware if it costs more.


Considering that you'll need a real GPU in order to game, the price difference will be insignificant between the two.

Feel free to go against everyone's advices, after all, you're already convinced that this HP box is the best thing since sliced bread...
May 30, 2006 2:15:26 AM

You Now have an option of Upgrading to a FX-62 or a Athlon64 X2 5000+ on Socket939. yayy!!
May 30, 2006 2:19:25 AM

why is everyone assuming that this will be a gaming pc, i will game on it, but not the day i get it. Since the onboard graphics are decent for now. But yes i will be gaming eventually but its mostly for HTPC, home/office stuff.
May 30, 2006 2:40:41 AM

Quote:
why is everyone assuming that this will be a gaming pc, i will game on it, but not the day i get it. Since the onboard graphics are decent for now. But yes i will be gaming eventually but its mostly for HTPC, home/office stuff.


Well, what were you expecting ? You posted on an hardware enthusiast forum asking for help about your next buy stating "i need to get to turn this pc into a moderate/high level gaming machine", obviously, the best way to go is to build your own.

If the components patrons link to are too expensive for your taste, feel free to switch some parts around, I'm sure that you could get a SFF box for much less than that HP comp you're focused on...
!