Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

buy an EPSON printer = daylight robbery?

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
Share
March 13, 2005 1:15:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
in Taiwan.
After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.

Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
changing the black cartridge!!!

Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
without background)!!!!

If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?

Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 1:15:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
other 39 if it's all B&W text?

--
M.Stepelton
http://MStepelton.freeservers.com

"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
> in Taiwan.
> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>
> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
> changing the black cartridge!!!
>
> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
> without background)!!!!
>
> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>
> Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 1:15:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...

> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
> in Taiwan.
> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.

Since the printer is still under warranty your
solution seems obvious.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Related resources
March 13, 2005 3:21:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

>Since the printer is still under warranty your
>solution seems obvious.

I wonder what options I would have? Materials for consumption like
paper and ink are not covered usually...

Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 3:21:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:21:34 +0800, peterp <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
><d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
>
>>Since the printer is still under warranty your
>>solution seems obvious.
>
>I wonder what options I would have? Materials for consumption like
>paper and ink are not covered usually...
>
>Peter

Sounds like you were sold a used printer as new or a defective
printer that leaks ink badly.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 3:56:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:41:46 GMT, "M.Stepelton" <MStepelton@NoWay.net> wrote:

>Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
>other 39 if it's all B&W text?



You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
March 13, 2005 3:56:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>
>You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
>
Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
heard of Brother printers, laser or other.

I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...

Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
same as all together in the old one.

Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
money-grabber.
A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.

I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
cost have become such big business.

Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 3:56:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You should be able to purchase a basic laser printer for about $225. The
fact that ink jet printers cost $80 and a set of cartridges for them costs
$50 is old news. This has been going on for many years. With only a couple
of exceptions, everyone I know uses their ink jet printers for photos and a
laser printer for documents.

Epson is not the only company doing business in Japan that is a "money
grabber". The huge Matsushita conglomerate controls just about every aspect
of the technology market in Japan and beyond. With their incredibly complex
web of deals and arrangements with companies like Sony, Mitsubishi,
Panasonic, Hitachi and many others, they are on the verge of a global
monopoly in the tech industry.

"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:tvf731l0eu0idjlk0q434m33rcmsob8jcv@4ax.com...
> >
> >You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
laser..
> >
> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
>
> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
>
> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
> same as all together in the old one.
>
> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
> money-grabber.
> A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
>
> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
> cost have become such big business.
>
> Peter
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 3:57:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

>"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
>
>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>> in Taiwan.
>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>
>Since the printer is still under warranty your
>solution seems obvious.



Just refit the ink tanks..
March 13, 2005 3:57:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:57:25 +1300, BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
><d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
>
>>"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
>>
>>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>>> in Taiwan.
>>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>>
>>Since the printer is still under warranty your
>>solution seems obvious.
>
>
>
>Just refit the ink tanks..
>

Thanks for the suggestion. Will try.

Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 4:19:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"PJx" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:cpn7315icfv5vc2qvqm994oqe2o6k645cv@4ax.com...

> Sounds like you were sold a used printer as new or a defective
> printer that leaks ink badly.

or perhaps that model comes with "light duty" carts that look similar to
regular carts but are actually lower capacity and a very bad buy in terms of
ink per $.
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:12:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
a difference.

However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.

Art



peterp wrote:
> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
> in Taiwan.
> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>
> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
> changing the black cartridge!!!
>
> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
> without background)!!!!
>
> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>
> Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:15:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I don't think he was implying the "copies" were all the same. He was
likely using the term copy, in the sense of printouts. It still doesn't
matter, he should be getting more than 40 pages yield, even if they were
nearly 100% coverage.

Art

Art

M.Stepelton wrote:

> Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
> other 39 if it's all B&W text?
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 6:35:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh cartridges
included. It's a horrible business model creating major waste of
perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because it costs
very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace the whole
printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.

By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name products,
not just Epson.

Art

peterp wrote:

>>You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
>>
>
> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
>
> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
>
> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
> same as all together in the old one.
>
> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
> money-grabber.
> A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
>
> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
> cost have become such big business.
>
> Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 8:24:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:12:50 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
>slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
>flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
>a difference.
>
>However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
>cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
>cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
>to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
>empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
>will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.

It is possible that there is nothing wrong with the printer. There is
no statement in the original post that the colour ink cartridges are
nearly full. It merely states that they contain ink.

>
>peterp wrote:
>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>> in Taiwan.
>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>>
>> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
>> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
>> changing the black cartridge!!!
>>
>> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
>> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
>> without background)!!!!
>>
>> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>>
>> Peter
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:22:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
> slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle
> to flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that
> great a difference.
>
> However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual
> color cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the
> other cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in
> ink losses to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full
> cartridges going to empty, so that implies something is wrong with
> your printer, but there will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume
> each time a cartridge is changed.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> peterp wrote:
>
>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>> in Taiwan.
>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
>> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
>> changing the black cartridge!!!
>>
>> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
>> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
>> without background)!!!!
>>
>> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>>
>> Peter
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 10:29:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
$150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
people take a chance with 3rd party inks.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
> printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh
> cartridges included. It's a horrible business model creating major
> waste of perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because
> it costs very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace
> the whole printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.
>
> By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name
> products, not just Epson.
>
> Art
>
> peterp wrote:
>
>>> You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
>>> laser..
>>>
>>
>> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
>> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
>> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
>>
>> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
>> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
>> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
>>
>> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
>> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
>> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
>> same as all together in the old one.
>>
>> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
>> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
>> money-grabber. A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a
>> new machine.
>>
>> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
>> cost have become such big business.
>>
>> Peter
>
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 11:55:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

peterp (weip@bigfoot.com) writes:
>>
>>You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
>>

I subscribe to this theouy but bought a cheap Samsung after being told by
more than one Office Max clerks that Brother machines don't hold up as
well.

Brendan

> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
>
> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
>
> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
> same as all together in the old one.
>
> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
> money-grabber.
> A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
>
> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
> cost have become such big business.
>
> Peter


--
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 2:45:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
>some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
>I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
>you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
>
Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 6:07:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks
do not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary
and I do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.

Hecate wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
>>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
>>some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
>>I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
>>you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
>>
>>
>>
>Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
>customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
>
> --
>
>Hecate - The Real One
>Hecate@newsguy.com
>veni, vidi, reliqui
>
>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 1:49:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0e7Zd.18466$Pz7.16922@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

> Hecate wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
>>>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have some
>>>kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer. I
>>>cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If you
>>>need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
>>>
>>>
>>Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
>>customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
>>
>> --
>>
>>Hecate - The Real One
>>Hecate@newsguy.com veni, vidi, reliqui
>>
> Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
> not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
> do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
>

Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
which the older pigment inks suffered from.

Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
printer one of these days....
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 1:49:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:49:32 +1100, "Caitlin"
<caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote:


>> Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
>> not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
>> do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
>>
>
>Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
>their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
>have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
>which the older pigment inks suffered from.

Precisely. And a recent comparative test in PC Pro showed that the
Canon inks lasted less well than any others (including the newest
Lexmark inks - though you'd have to be braindead to buy one of their
printers <g>).

>Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
>printer one of these days....
>
The Canons give a nice output and do so quickly, but they're no use
for any long-lasting print.

As for ink costs, that's why Lyson, Permajet and MSI produce
continuous ink systems. :) 

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 8:13:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hecate wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:49:32 +1100, "Caitlin"
><caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>>Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
>>>not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
>>>do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
>>their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
>>have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
>>which the older pigment inks suffered from.
>>
>>
>
>Precisely. And a recent comparative test in PC Pro showed that the
>Canon inks lasted less well than any others (including the newest
>Lexmark inks - though you'd have to be braindead to buy one of their
>printers <g>).
>
>
We can at least agree on that. :-)

>
>
>>Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
>>
>>

Is A3 wide carriage?

>>printer one of these days....
>>
>>
>>
>The Canons give a nice output and do so quickly, but they're no use
>for any long-lasting print.
>
>As for ink costs, that's why Lyson, Permajet and MSI produce
>continuous ink systems. :) 
>
> --
>
>Hecate - The Real One
>Hecate@newsguy.com
>veni, vidi, reliqui
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 3:59:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I don't know why I'm even responding to this.

But the faulty logic is just to extreme to ignore. Many documents are
transferred to other people and need to have permanence. People share
photos and may not have access to the original or source file. Some
people have better things to do with life than reprint all their files
regularly.

Cost of ink may not be an issue for some people, Epson has many Nome
paper types available for fine art use.

Everyone has different criterion for determining what is the best inkjet
printer for their needs.


Art

measekite wrote:

> From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
> you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
> some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
> I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
> you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
>> slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle
>> to flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that
>> great a difference.
>>
>> However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual
>> color cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the
>> other cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in
>> ink losses to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full
>> cartridges going to empty, so that implies something is wrong with
>> your printer, but there will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume
>> each time a cartridge is changed.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> peterp wrote:
>>
>>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>>> in Taiwan.
>>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>>> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
>>> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
>>> changing the black cartridge!!!
>>>
>>> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
>>> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
>>> without background)!!!!
>>>
>>> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>
>>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:03:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the IP4000,
however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the cost of
the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a new printer
with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.

Art

measekite wrote:

> Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
> $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
> the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
> people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
>> printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh
>> cartridges included. It's a horrible business model creating major
>> waste of perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because
>> it costs very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace
>> the whole printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.
>>
>> By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name
>> products, not just Epson.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> peterp wrote:
>>
>>>> You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
>>>> laser..
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
>>> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
>>> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
>>>
>>> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
>>> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
>>> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
>>>
>>> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
>>> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
>>> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
>>> same as all together in the old one.
>>>
>>> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
>>> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
>>> money-grabber. A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a
>>> new machine.
>>>
>>> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
>>> cost have become such big business.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>
>>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:03:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the IP4000,
> however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the cost of
> the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a new printer
> with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.
>
> Art
>

I have an iP5000 and an i860 (predecessor to the iP4000). The cost of
OEM cartridges, bought at Staples in Canada, comes to $104 (with taxes).
The cost of the printer, the iP5000 was $274 (with taxes). The iP4000
sells for about $206 (in Canada) with taxes. As you can see, the OEM
cartridge to printer (iP5000) cost is between 37% and 50%, depending on
which model you bought. That's pretty disgusting, I'd say. Bring on the
3rd party cartridges, no questions asked.

-Taliesyn

> measekite wrote:
>
>> Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
>> $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
>> the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
>> people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
>>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 4:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.

Art

Ototin wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:12:50 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
>>slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
>>flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
>>a difference.
>>
>>However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
>>cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
>>cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
>>to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
>>empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
>>will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.
>
>
> It is possible that there is nothing wrong with the printer. There is
> no statement in the original post that the colour ink cartridges are
> nearly full. It merely states that they contain ink.
>
>
>>peterp wrote:
>>
>>>Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
>>>in Taiwan.
>>>After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
>>>black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
>>>that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
>>>
>>>Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
>>>three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
>>>changing the black cartridge!!!
>>>
>>>Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
>>>thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
>>>without background)!!!!
>>>
>>>If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
>>>
>>>Peter
>
>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 6:02:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Canon probably has the most reasonable printer to ink cartridge ratios
of all the brands. However, it may also have the most fugitive inks in
the field, as well.

I read some months ago about a new ink set released in Japan by Canon.
Has anyone heard of it being exported yet?

Art

Taliesyn wrote:

> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the
>> IP4000, however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the
>> cost of the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a
>> new printer with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.
>>
>> Art
>>
>
> I have an iP5000 and an i860 (predecessor to the iP4000). The cost of
> OEM cartridges, bought at Staples in Canada, comes to $104 (with taxes).
> The cost of the printer, the iP5000 was $274 (with taxes). The iP4000
> sells for about $206 (in Canada) with taxes. As you can see, the OEM
> cartridge to printer (iP5000) cost is between 37% and 50%, depending on
> which model you bought. That's pretty disgusting, I'd say. Bring on the
> 3rd party cartridges, no questions asked.
>
> -Taliesyn
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>> Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
>>> $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to
>>> replace the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I
>>> understand why people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
>>>
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 10:26:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:w9uZd.10842$C47.6778@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
*snip*

>>
>>>Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
>
> Is A3 wide carriage?
>

It's double A4 size. So in US terms, yes you probably call that wide
carriage.
Anonymous
March 16, 2005 5:27:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I am glad you got a cannon if that is what you want
I have been using epsons since the old ribbon type
Have has excellent luck with them
I use a 3rd party ink with NO problems
Its great that people can choose a ford or chevy...
Good luck


"Caitlin" <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42357a52$0$27618$61c65585@un-2park-reader-02.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0e7Zd.18466$Pz7.16922@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>> Hecate wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
>>>>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
>>>>some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
>>>>I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
>>>>you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
>>>customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>Hecate - The Real One
>>>Hecate@newsguy.com veni, vidi, reliqui
>>>
>> Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
>> not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and
>> I do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
>>
>
> Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be
> reprinting their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest
> Epson inks have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no
> colour shift which the older pigment inks suffered from.
>
> Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
> printer one of these days....
>
March 18, 2005 1:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
>cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
>only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.
>

They were mostly no more than may be 30 or so lines per page. The
invoices were mostly white!

Anyway, I found 3rd party refillable cartridges which were just newly
developed for this model. Judging from the message displayed when I
tried the first print, the machine or software detected that the
cartridges weren't from Epson, but it works without a problem. The
best with the cartridges is that I can leave the refill opening
plugged if I don't want to use that specific color.

Peter
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 2:52:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Epson indicates that up to 1/5th of the ink may be used up on the first
cartridge installation process. That still doesn't explain the usage
numbers you got.

There are a few considerations in using third party inks. If you are
using a Durabrite ink printer you may find the new inks are not pigment
colorant (may tend to fade) and also may not be waterproof, or they may
tend to clog more easily.

I don't quite understand the part about keeping the color cartridges
plugged. If you have been using this printer with ink in it, leaving
the color heads without ink feeding in them may lead to some difficult
if not impossible clogs to resolve.

Further, do these cartridges have "permanently full" chips, or do you
need to reset them every so often, as they read empty?

Art

peterp wrote:

>>You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
>>cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
>>only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.
>>
>
>
> They were mostly no more than may be 30 or so lines per page. The
> invoices were mostly white!
>
> Anyway, I found 3rd party refillable cartridges which were just newly
> developed for this model. Judging from the message displayed when I
> tried the first print, the machine or software detected that the
> cartridges weren't from Epson, but it works without a problem. The
> best with the cartridges is that I can leave the refill opening
> plugged if I don't want to use that specific color.
>
> Peter
March 29, 2005 10:34:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>Epson indicates that up to 1/5th of the ink may be used up on the first
>cartridge installation process. That still doesn't explain the usage
>numbers you got.

Well, all I can say that after printing to black text copies the
software shows 1/5th less ink for black. Too much for my taste.

>Further, do these cartridges have "permanently full" chips, or do you
>need to reset them every so often, as they read empty?

I don't know yet, as I have been using only the black cartridge, until
now, but as far as I understood when I bought them, nothing needs to
be done at all.

Peter
!