buy an EPSON printer = daylight robbery?

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
in Taiwan.
After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.

Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
changing the black cartridge!!!

Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
without background)!!!!

If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?

Peter
32 answers Last reply
More about epson printer daylight robbery
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
    other 39 if it's all B&W text?

    --
    M.Stepelton
    http://MStepelton.freeservers.com

    "peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
    > Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    > in Taiwan.
    > After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    > black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    > that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >
    > Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    > three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    > changing the black cartridge!!!
    >
    > Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    > thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    > without background)!!!!
    >
    > If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >
    > Peter
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...

    > Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    > in Taiwan.
    > After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    > black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    > that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.

    Since the printer is still under warranty your
    solution seems obvious.

    --
    Don Phillipson
    Carlsbad Springs
    (Ottawa, Canada)
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
    <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

    >Since the printer is still under warranty your
    >solution seems obvious.

    I wonder what options I would have? Materials for consumption like
    paper and ink are not covered usually...

    Peter
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:21:34 +0800, peterp <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
    ><d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Since the printer is still under warranty your
    >>solution seems obvious.
    >
    >I wonder what options I would have? Materials for consumption like
    >paper and ink are not covered usually...
    >
    >Peter

    Sounds like you were sold a used printer as new or a defective
    printer that leaks ink badly.
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:41:46 GMT, "M.Stepelton" <MStepelton@NoWay.net> wrote:

    >Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
    >other 39 if it's all B&W text?


    You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    >
    >You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
    >
    Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    heard of Brother printers, laser or other.

    I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...

    Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    same as all together in the old one.

    Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    money-grabber.
    A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.

    I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    cost have become such big business.

    Peter
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    You should be able to purchase a basic laser printer for about $225. The
    fact that ink jet printers cost $80 and a set of cartridges for them costs
    $50 is old news. This has been going on for many years. With only a couple
    of exceptions, everyone I know uses their ink jet printers for photos and a
    laser printer for documents.

    Epson is not the only company doing business in Japan that is a "money
    grabber". The huge Matsushita conglomerate controls just about every aspect
    of the technology market in Japan and beyond. With their incredibly complex
    web of deals and arrangements with companies like Sony, Mitsubishi,
    Panasonic, Hitachi and many others, they are on the verge of a global
    monopoly in the tech industry.

    "peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:tvf731l0eu0idjlk0q434m33rcmsob8jcv@4ax.com...
    > >
    > >You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
    laser..
    > >
    > Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    > market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    > heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
    >
    > I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    > wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    > cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
    >
    > Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    > including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    > cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    > same as all together in the old one.
    >
    > Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    > untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    > money-grabber.
    > A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
    >
    > I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    > cost have become such big business.
    >
    > Peter
    >
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
    <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

    >"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    >news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
    >
    >> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >> in Taiwan.
    >> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >
    >Since the printer is still under warranty your
    >solution seems obvious.


    Just refit the ink tanks..
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:57:25 +1300, BILL bs.xxxxxxxxxx.corn wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:10:11 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
    ><d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
    >
    >>"peterp" <weip@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    >>news:gqt5319cbrartsohbuma1r5o3otkilf320@4ax.com...
    >>
    >>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >>> in Taiwan.
    >>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >>
    >>Since the printer is still under warranty your
    >>solution seems obvious.
    >
    >
    >
    >Just refit the ink tanks..
    >

    Thanks for the suggestion. Will try.

    Peter
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "PJx" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    news:cpn7315icfv5vc2qvqm994oqe2o6k645cv@4ax.com...

    > Sounds like you were sold a used printer as new or a defective
    > printer that leaks ink badly.

    or perhaps that model comes with "light duty" carts that look similar to
    regular carts but are actually lower capacity and a very bad buy in terms of
    ink per $.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
    slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
    flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
    a difference.

    However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
    cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
    cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
    to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
    empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
    will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.

    Art


    peterp wrote:
    > Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    > in Taiwan.
    > After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    > black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    > that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >
    > Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    > three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    > changing the black cartridge!!!
    >
    > Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    > thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    > without background)!!!!
    >
    > If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >
    > Peter
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I don't think he was implying the "copies" were all the same. He was
    likely using the term copy, in the sense of printouts. It still doesn't
    matter, he should be getting more than 40 pages yield, even if they were
    nearly 100% coverage.

    Art

    Art

    M.Stepelton wrote:

    > Did you ever try printing 1 copy, then take it to a copy machine for the
    > other 39 if it's all B&W text?
    >
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
    printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh cartridges
    included. It's a horrible business model creating major waste of
    perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because it costs
    very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace the whole
    printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.

    By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name products,
    not just Epson.

    Art

    peterp wrote:

    >>You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
    >>
    >
    > Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    > market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    > heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
    >
    > I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    > wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    > cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
    >
    > Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    > including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    > cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    > same as all together in the old one.
    >
    > Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    > untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    > money-grabber.
    > A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
    >
    > I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    > cost have become such big business.
    >
    > Peter
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:12:50 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    wrote:

    >This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
    >slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
    >flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
    >a difference.
    >
    >However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
    >cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
    >cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
    >to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
    >empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
    >will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.

    It is possible that there is nothing wrong with the printer. There is
    no statement in the original post that the colour ink cartridges are
    nearly full. It merely states that they contain ink.

    >
    >peterp wrote:
    >> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >> in Taiwan.
    >> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >>
    >> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    >> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    >> changing the black cartridge!!!
    >>
    >> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    >> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    >> without background)!!!!
    >>
    >> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >>
    >> Peter
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
    some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
    I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
    you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
    > slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle
    > to flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that
    > great a difference.
    >
    > However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual
    > color cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the
    > other cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in
    > ink losses to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full
    > cartridges going to empty, so that implies something is wrong with
    > your printer, but there will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume
    > each time a cartridge is changed.
    >
    > Art
    >
    >
    >
    > peterp wrote:
    >
    >> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >> in Taiwan.
    >> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    >> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    >> changing the black cartridge!!!
    >>
    >> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    >> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    >> without background)!!!!
    >>
    >> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >>
    >> Peter
    >
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
    $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
    the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
    people take a chance with 3rd party inks.

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
    > printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh
    > cartridges included. It's a horrible business model creating major
    > waste of perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because
    > it costs very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace
    > the whole printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.
    >
    > By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name
    > products, not just Epson.
    >
    > Art
    >
    > peterp wrote:
    >
    >>> You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
    >>> laser..
    >>>
    >>
    >> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    >> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    >> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
    >>
    >> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    >> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    >> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
    >>
    >> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    >> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    >> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    >> same as all together in the old one.
    >>
    >> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    >> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    >> money-grabber. A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a
    >> new machine.
    >>
    >> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    >> cost have become such big business.
    >>
    >> Peter
    >
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    peterp (weip@bigfoot.com) writes:
    >>
    >>You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother laser..
    >>

    I subscribe to this theouy but bought a cheap Samsung after being told by
    more than one Office Max clerks that Brother machines don't hold up as
    well.

    Brendan

    > Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    > market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    > heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
    >
    > I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    > wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    > cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
    >
    > Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    > including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    > cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    > same as all together in the old one.
    >
    > Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    > untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    > money-grabber.
    > A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a new machine.
    >
    > I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    > cost have become such big business.
    >
    > Peter


    --
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    > From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    >you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
    >some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
    >I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
    >you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
    >
    Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
    customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.

    --

    Hecate - The Real One
    Hecate@newsguy.com
    veni, vidi, reliqui
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks
    do not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary
    and I do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.

    Hecate wrote:

    >On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
    >wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    >>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
    >>some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
    >>I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
    >>you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
    >customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
    >
    > --
    >
    >Hecate - The Real One
    >Hecate@newsguy.com
    >veni, vidi, reliqui
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:0e7Zd.18466$Pz7.16922@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

    > Hecate wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    >>>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have some
    >>>kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer. I
    >>>cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If you
    >>>need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
    >>customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >>Hecate - The Real One
    >>Hecate@newsguy.com veni, vidi, reliqui
    >>
    > Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
    > not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
    > do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
    >

    Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
    their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
    have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
    which the older pigment inks suffered from.

    Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
    printer one of these days....
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:49:32 +1100, "Caitlin"
    <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote:


    >> Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
    >> not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
    >> do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
    >>
    >
    >Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
    >their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
    >have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
    >which the older pigment inks suffered from.

    Precisely. And a recent comparative test in PC Pro showed that the
    Canon inks lasted less well than any others (including the newest
    Lexmark inks - though you'd have to be braindead to buy one of their
    printers <g>).

    >Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
    >printer one of these days....
    >
    The Canons give a nice output and do so quickly, but they're no use
    for any long-lasting print.

    As for ink costs, that's why Lyson, Permajet and MSI produce
    continuous ink systems. :)

    --

    Hecate - The Real One
    Hecate@newsguy.com
    veni, vidi, reliqui
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hecate wrote:

    >On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:49:32 +1100, "Caitlin"
    ><caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>>Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
    >>>not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and I
    >>>do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be reprinting
    >>their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest Epson inks
    >>have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no colour shift
    >>which the older pigment inks suffered from.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Precisely. And a recent comparative test in PC Pro showed that the
    >Canon inks lasted less well than any others (including the newest
    >Lexmark inks - though you'd have to be braindead to buy one of their
    >printers <g>).
    >
    >
    We can at least agree on that. :-)

    >
    >
    >>Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
    >>
    >>

    Is A3 wide carriage?

    >>printer one of these days....
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >The Canons give a nice output and do so quickly, but they're no use
    >for any long-lasting print.
    >
    >As for ink costs, that's why Lyson, Permajet and MSI produce
    >continuous ink systems. :)
    >
    > --
    >
    >Hecate - The Real One
    >Hecate@newsguy.com
    >veni, vidi, reliqui
    >
    >
    >
    >
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I don't know why I'm even responding to this.

    But the faulty logic is just to extreme to ignore. Many documents are
    transferred to other people and need to have permanence. People share
    photos and may not have access to the original or source file. Some
    people have better things to do with life than reprint all their files
    regularly.

    Cost of ink may not be an issue for some people, Epson has many Nome
    paper types available for fine art use.

    Everyone has different criterion for determining what is the best inkjet
    printer for their needs.


    Art

    measekite wrote:

    > From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    > you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
    > some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
    > I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
    > you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
    >> slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle
    >> to flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that
    >> great a difference.
    >>
    >> However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual
    >> color cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the
    >> other cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in
    >> ink losses to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full
    >> cartridges going to empty, so that implies something is wrong with
    >> your printer, but there will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume
    >> each time a cartridge is changed.
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> peterp wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >>> in Taiwan.
    >>> After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >>> black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >>> that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >>> Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    >>> three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    >>> changing the black cartridge!!!
    >>>
    >>> Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    >>> thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    >>> without background)!!!!
    >>>
    >>> If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >>>
    >>> Peter
    >>
    >>
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the IP4000,
    however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the cost of
    the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a new printer
    with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.

    Art

    measekite wrote:

    > Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
    > $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
    > the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
    > people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> Here in Canada, the cost of a set of replacement cartridges for most
    >> printers runs about 75-90% the cost of the printer with fresh
    >> cartridges included. It's a horrible business model creating major
    >> waste of perfectly good inkjet printers going to the landfill, because
    >> it costs very nearly the same to replace the ink set as to replace
    >> the whole printer with another one, if you use OEM inks.
    >>
    >> By the way, this is pretty much true of most of the brand name
    >> products, not just Epson.
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >> peterp wrote:
    >>
    >>>> You do not use a Ink Jet to print Black Text, go get a cheap Brother
    >>>> laser..
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Thanks. That is under consideration, although it appears that the
    >>> market here is monopolized by EPSON, Canon, HP and Lexmark. Never
    >>> heard of Brother printers, laser or other.
    >>>
    >>> I must add that the old Epson with multi-color cartridge was not that
    >>> wasteful at all, but single color cartridges and quadrupled cartridge
    >>> cost seems to mean progress for EPSON...
    >>>
    >>> Also, I guess total production cost of a single color cartridge,
    >>> including ink, is only about 30-40% maximum of the multi-color
    >>> cartridge of the old Epson printer, but one single color costs the
    >>> same as all together in the old one.
    >>>
    >>> Having lived in Japan for many years, I think it is shameful and quite
    >>> untypical that a Japanese company like EPSON is becoming such a
    >>> money-grabber. A set of cartridges of the new machine costs 25% of a
    >>> new machine.
    >>>
    >>> I now understand why refills and non-brand cartridges at a far lower
    >>> cost have become such big business.
    >>>
    >>> Peter
    >>
    >>
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:
    > I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the IP4000,
    > however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the cost of
    > the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a new printer
    > with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.
    >
    > Art
    >

    I have an iP5000 and an i860 (predecessor to the iP4000). The cost of
    OEM cartridges, bought at Staples in Canada, comes to $104 (with taxes).
    The cost of the printer, the iP5000 was $274 (with taxes). The iP4000
    sells for about $206 (in Canada) with taxes. As you can see, the OEM
    cartridge to printer (iP5000) cost is between 37% and 50%, depending on
    which model you bought. That's pretty disgusting, I'd say. Bring on the
    3rd party cartridges, no questions asked.

    -Taliesyn

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >> Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
    >> $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to replace
    >> the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I understand why
    >> people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
    >>
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
    cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
    only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.

    Art

    Ototin wrote:

    > On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:12:50 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>This is not normal. Although the first set of cartridges will get a
    >>slightly lower yield than the next, due to a much longer purge cycle to
    >>flush the heads of the preservative in them, it doesn't make that great
    >>a difference.
    >>
    >>However, as I have tried to explain to those who think individual color
    >>cartridges save ink, each time a cartridge is changed, all the other
    >>cartridges are purged together with the new one, resulting in ink losses
    >>to each cartridge. That doesn't equate nearly full cartridges going to
    >>empty, so that implies something is wrong with your printer, but there
    >>will be a loss of 8-10% of the full volume each time a cartridge is changed.
    >
    >
    > It is possible that there is nothing wrong with the printer. There is
    > no statement in the original post that the colour ink cartridges are
    > nearly full. It merely states that they contain ink.
    >
    >
    >>peterp wrote:
    >>
    >>>Bought one of the newest models of printer available from Epson here
    >>>in Taiwan.
    >>>After only about 40 copies, about 80% of which was only in black, the
    >>>black ink cartridge was empty, while the software (driver?) showed
    >>>that the other color cartridges all three still contained ink.
    >>>
    >>>Installed new black ink cartridge -- now the software displayed all
    >>>three remaining cartridges as empty, so the ink was not used since
    >>>changing the black cartridge!!!
    >>>
    >>>Calculating the cost of Epson cartridges against 40 copies:
    >>>thus, cost is about USD 1.30 or Yen 132 per copy (mostly only text
    >>>without background)!!!!
    >>>
    >>>If that is not robbery in broad daylight, then what is it?
    >>>
    >>>Peter
    >
    >
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Canon probably has the most reasonable printer to ink cartridge ratios
    of all the brands. However, it may also have the most fugitive inks in
    the field, as well.

    I read some months ago about a new ink set released in Japan by Canon.
    Has anyone heard of it being exported yet?

    Art

    Taliesyn wrote:

    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> I don't know current pricing on the Canon OEM cartridges for the
    >> IP4000, however, for most lower end Epson, Lexmark and HP printers the
    >> cost of the replacement cartridges is within 20-30% of the cost of a
    >> new printer with new cartridges included. I imagine Canon is similar.
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >
    > I have an iP5000 and an i860 (predecessor to the iP4000). The cost of
    > OEM cartridges, bought at Staples in Canada, comes to $104 (with taxes).
    > The cost of the printer, the iP5000 was $274 (with taxes). The iP4000
    > sells for about $206 (in Canada) with taxes. As you can see, the OEM
    > cartridge to printer (iP5000) cost is between 37% and 50%, depending on
    > which model you bought. That's pretty disgusting, I'd say. Bring on the
    > 3rd party cartridges, no questions asked.
    >
    > -Taliesyn
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>> Are you saying that a printer like an IP4000 that has a list price of
    >>> $150 and usually sells for about $135 would cost about $100 to
    >>> replace the ink carts with OEM. If that is the case then I
    >>> understand why people take a chance with 3rd party inks.
    >>>
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:w9uZd.10842$C47.6778@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    *snip*

    >>
    >>>Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
    >
    > Is A3 wide carriage?
    >

    It's double A4 size. So in US terms, yes you probably call that wide
    carriage.
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I am glad you got a cannon if that is what you want
    I have been using epsons since the old ribbon type
    Have has excellent luck with them
    I use a 3rd party ink with NO problems
    Its great that people can choose a ford or chevy...
    Good luck


    "Caitlin" <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:42357a52$0$27618$61c65585@un-2park-reader-02.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
    >
    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:0e7Zd.18466$Pz7.16922@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >> Hecate wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:22:20 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>From what I am reading about Epson printers, they are designed to screw
    >>>>you out of ink that you could use for printing even though they have
    >>>>some kind of a justification for it. I am glad I got a Canon printer.
    >>>>I cannot understand why anyone would choose an Epson over a Canon. If
    >>>>you need to, just reprint and you have longevity.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Because Epson prints use pigment inks. They last. Canon don't. And
    >>>customers don't like prints that fade after a few months.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>>
    >>>Hecate - The Real One
    >>>Hecate@newsguy.com veni, vidi, reliqui
    >>>
    >> Mine are over 6 months old and just sitting on a desk. Pigmented inks do
    >> not produce as vibrant a print. I can reprint when and if necessary and
    >> I do not get *AS :-( *screwed :-( by the OEM.
    >>
    >
    > Can you just accept that some people DON'T want to constantly be
    > reprinting their photos? And 6 months isn't much of a test... The latest
    > Epson inks have been rated very well for vibrancy & more importantly no
    > colour shift which the older pigment inks suffered from.
    >
    > Disclosure: I own and like my Canon IP4000 - but will get an A3 pigment
    > printer one of these days....
    >
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    >You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
    >cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
    >only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.
    >

    They were mostly no more than may be 30 or so lines per page. The
    invoices were mostly white!

    Anyway, I found 3rd party refillable cartridges which were just newly
    developed for this model. Judging from the message displayed when I
    tried the first print, the machine or software detected that the
    cartridges weren't from Epson, but it works without a problem. The
    best with the cartridges is that I can leave the refill opening
    plugged if I don't want to use that specific color.

    Peter
  31. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Epson indicates that up to 1/5th of the ink may be used up on the first
    cartridge installation process. That still doesn't explain the usage
    numbers you got.

    There are a few considerations in using third party inks. If you are
    using a Durabrite ink printer you may find the new inks are not pigment
    colorant (may tend to fade) and also may not be waterproof, or they may
    tend to clog more easily.

    I don't quite understand the part about keeping the color cartridges
    plugged. If you have been using this printer with ink in it, leaving
    the color heads without ink feeding in them may lead to some difficult
    if not impossible clogs to resolve.

    Further, do these cartridges have "permanently full" chips, or do you
    need to reset them every so often, as they read empty?

    Art

    peterp wrote:

    >>You are correct that I misread the posting regarding the color
    >>cartridges. However, it would still not be normal to get a yield of
    >>only 40 pages unless the pages were very dense with black content.
    >>
    >
    >
    > They were mostly no more than may be 30 or so lines per page. The
    > invoices were mostly white!
    >
    > Anyway, I found 3rd party refillable cartridges which were just newly
    > developed for this model. Judging from the message displayed when I
    > tried the first print, the machine or software detected that the
    > cartridges weren't from Epson, but it works without a problem. The
    > best with the cartridges is that I can leave the refill opening
    > plugged if I don't want to use that specific color.
    >
    > Peter
  32. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    >Epson indicates that up to 1/5th of the ink may be used up on the first
    >cartridge installation process. That still doesn't explain the usage
    >numbers you got.

    Well, all I can say that after printing to black text copies the
    software shows 1/5th less ink for black. Too much for my taste.

    >Further, do these cartridges have "permanently full" chips, or do you
    >need to reset them every so often, as they read empty?

    I don't know yet, as I have been using only the black cartridge, until
    now, but as far as I understood when I bought them, nothing needs to
    be done at all.

    Peter
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