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Micro stuttering and Global Max Texture Size

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Anonymous
August 23, 2005 2:35:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi guys,

Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
menu in FS2004?

I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
*WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.

Does the Global Max Texture Size setting in FS2004 affect you in any
way? if you want to know if you have stutters or not simply take a fast
aircraft and do a 30 degree turn. Fly in circles and do two full 360's.
Watch closely the smoothness of the sim as you do this, it should be
completely fluid if your frame rates are constant (SHIFT-Z) to check
Frame rates.

My setup:
FX-53 (FSB overclocked 10%, 6800 Ultra Extreme 450/1200, 2GB RAM, WD
7200RPM Disk RAID 0 configuration)

Take care,

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 23, 2005 8:12:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jose

Global Max Texture Size controls the quality of the textures. An easy way
to check what it does is to select a default aircraft like Learjet and go to
virtual cockpit. You will see that with size set to small the quality is
very poor and max, quality is sharp. I found this setting rather confusing
at first because you would think with a texture size set to max the texture
tile would be enlarged resulting in a blocky appearance. Thats the way it
works when rendering within Autocad. Confused how your getting stutters yet
you say your fps is still good, does it not drop when the stutters ocurr. I
would assume then that there is a problem with your graphics card output to
your monitor if FS is still generating a fluid flight but your not seeing
it. I'm sure we all get some form of pausing (microsecond though) when
turning through built up areas in a jet as textures load.

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
> Hi guys,
>
> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
> menu in FS2004?
>
> I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
> since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
> *WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
> yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
> failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
> the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
> Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
> Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
> effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
> do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
> 25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.
>
> Does the Global Max Texture Size setting in FS2004 affect you in any
> way? if you want to know if you have stutters or not simply take a fast
> aircraft and do a 30 degree turn. Fly in circles and do two full 360's.
> Watch closely the smoothness of the sim as you do this, it should be
> completely fluid if your frame rates are constant (SHIFT-Z) to check
> Frame rates.
>
> My setup:
> FX-53 (FSB overclocked 10%, 6800 Ultra Extreme 450/1200, 2GB RAM, WD
> 7200RPM Disk RAID 0 configuration)
>
> Take care,
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 23, 2005 8:12:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

< I'm sure we all get some form of pausing (microsecond though) when
< turning through built up areas in a jet as textures load.

Chris, my point is that moving the Global texture size slider to Very
Small or Small COMPLETELY eliminates the microsecond pauses (not even
one!!!). For me, after moving the slider, there is no microsecond pause
no matter what I do or how dense is the area I'm flying over. I know is
not big deal, but for me a microsecond pause is a distraction. The less
distractions you have in a sim, the more you immerse in it.

What I'm trying to determine here is why using Massive size textures
creates so many short pauses (micro stutters) for me. I do have a RAID
0 configuration on disks (7200RPM) that bench incredibly high in
sandra. and my 6800 Ultra memory is DDR3 (very high speed memory). The
CPU is also High end.. so, there should be no pauses at all... However
I do experience them! but only, when Massive or Large textures are set
in the Global texture size slider

< Confused how your getting stutters yet
< you say your fps is still good

There's two types of stutters, the ones that occur when you experience
a sudden drop in FPS (I don't have this kind of stutters) and the ones
that occur for a milisecond and that are not directly related to FPS at
all. At least, the FPS counter in the sim stays constant while the
micro stutters occur.

> would assume then that there is a problem with your graphics card
output to
> your monitor if FS is still generating a fluid flight but your not
seeing
> it.

This is something I also considered.. however, why would changing a
setting for 'global texture size' affect peformance if my monitor were
at fault? there is a bottleneck somewhere.. I'm just trying to
determine if it is the AGP bus, The Graphic card, or the Hard drive.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:02:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jose,

I was troubled by jerks or stutters and at the suggestion of some on this NG
I moved my main Win XP page file from my main HD to my secondary HD. Since
then I have not had a noticeable jerk or stutter although in some situations
when turning at the end of a runway in a built up area (Scenery Complexity &
Autogen both set to Extremely Dense) the movement of scenery across the
screen is not fluid smooth. I have the Global Max Texture size on High. When
I have fiddled with it previously I had not noticed much effect but I'll try
it again.

Don't get confused about the frame rate displayed. Shift + Z only gives you
an average reading. I once did a tweak (I can't remember what) to get the
Min, Average and Max displayed. Trouble is that the Min figure went so low
it was depressing on the lower spec machine that I used to have so I got
rid! :0))

Iain

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
> Hi guys,
>
> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
> menu in FS2004?
>
> I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
> since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
> *WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
> yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
> failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
> the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
> Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
> Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
> effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
> do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
> 25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.
Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:07:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Maybe your microstutters are so small that the fps reading isn't registering
them because in less than a blink of the eye they are back to normal.
Katy may be able to help with the bottleneck / hardware conflicts.

Ibby

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124816411.16193@forums.simradar.com...
>< I'm sure we all get some form of pausing (microsecond though) when
> < turning through built up areas in a jet as textures load.
>
> Chris, my point is that moving the Global texture size slider to Very
> Small or Small COMPLETELY eliminates the microsecond pauses (not even
> one!!!). For me, after moving the slider, there is no microsecond pause
> no matter what I do or how dense is the area I'm flying over. I know is
> not big deal, but for me a microsecond pause is a distraction. The less
> distractions you have in a sim, the more you immerse in it.
>
> What I'm trying to determine here is why using Massive size textures
> creates so many short pauses (micro stutters) for me. I do have a RAID
> 0 configuration on disks (7200RPM) that bench incredibly high in
> sandra. and my 6800 Ultra memory is DDR3 (very high speed memory). The
> CPU is also High end.. so, there should be no pauses at all... However
> I do experience them! but only, when Massive or Large textures are set
> in the Global texture size slider
>
> < Confused how your getting stutters yet
> < you say your fps is still good
>
> There's two types of stutters, the ones that occur when you experience
> a sudden drop in FPS (I don't have this kind of stutters) and the ones
> that occur for a milisecond and that are not directly related to FPS at
> all. At least, the FPS counter in the sim stays constant while the
> micro stutters occur.
>
>> would assume then that there is a problem with your graphics card
> output to
>> your monitor if FS is still generating a fluid flight but your not
> seeing
>> it.
>
> This is something I also considered.. however, why would changing a
> setting for 'global texture size' affect peformance if my monitor were
> at fault? there is a bottleneck somewhere.. I'm just trying to
> determine if it is the AGP bus, The Graphic card, or the Hard drive.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:07:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

True, but how can it be that by simply moving a slider you can
COMPLETELY eliminate micro stutters and make the sim 100% fluid?

This is what I have found so far with each of the available positions
for the Global Texture Size slider:

Very Small -> Perfect! not a single microstutter
Small -> Perfect too
Medium -> Near Perfect (almost unnoticeable)
Large -> Very subtle microstuttering (0.5 secs)
Massive -> Same as above, but more frequent

Again, this may or may not be a big deal to some, because we are not
talking about a terrible stuttering problem happening. It's very, very
subtle. But when it comes to immersion it does have an effect, at least
for me, maybe for others too.

My conclusion, based on what I have found so far is that there is a
bottle neck in the internal buses/bridges/AGP or I/O subsystem of my
computer when running the sim with massive/high textures.

Massive and High equals bigger files. So, there could only be three
possible explanations for the microstutters:

1) Video card is receiving more data that what it can actually handle
How to fix? Upgrade card

2) Video card is wasting GPU cycles because is waiting for textures not
transferred quick enough to render on screen.
How to Fix? Get a faster disk with very low access time (I Think access
time is crucial here) or Create a RAM Drive with frequently used
textures.

Now, if you have the fastest disk and Graphic card and still have this
problem where would you look? BUS LATENCY! So, I took the PCI Latency
Tool and tried 32, 64, for all devices, then tried giving the RAID
controller more time in the PCI bus, then the card.. same.. no effect.
So where to look now?

the only thing I know is that this is a problem related to either the
sim sending the textures to the card too fast or too slow. I can answer
this question if I'm able to setup a 1GB RAM Drive and get the textures
from memory, instead of getting them from the harddisk. But, I don't
know of any RAM Drive utilities for XP (free of course)

The point I'm trying to make here is that there IS a bottleneck
somewhere and I just want to make sure where it is. I would love to run
with full massive textures. Besides, considering I'm using a High end
system and I'm experiencing this problems is an indication of a
'problem' in the way the sim manages texture loading. Maybe FS2006
should focus on memory optimizations to make predictive prefetching a
priority to make better use of available system memory.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:10:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Iain, surely if he has a very high spec machine windows shouldnt need to
access the pagefile. Jose said he had 2Gb ram.

Ibby

"Iain Smith" <iainsmith.rugby@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:D eg2sf$rhl$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Jose,
>
> I was troubled by jerks or stutters and at the suggestion of some on this
> NG I moved my main Win XP page file from my main HD to my secondary HD.
> Since then I have not had a noticeable jerk or stutter although in some
> situations when turning at the end of a runway in a built up area (Scenery
> Complexity & Autogen both set to Extremely Dense) the movement of scenery
> across the screen is not fluid smooth. I have the Global Max Texture size
> on High. When I have fiddled with it previously I had not noticed much
> effect but I'll try it again.
>
> Don't get confused about the frame rate displayed. Shift + Z only gives
> you an average reading. I once did a tweak (I can't remember what) to get
> the Min, Average and Max displayed. Trouble is that the Min figure went so
> low it was depressing on the lower spec machine that I used to have so I
> got rid! :0))
>
> Iain
>
> "Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in
> message news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
>> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
>> menu in FS2004?
>>
>> I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
>> since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
>> *WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
>> yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
>> failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
>> the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
>> Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
>> Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
>> effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
>> do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
>> 25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.
> Search Engine!
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:19:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Ibby, I'm not too sure of this but I think Windows uses the page file no
matter how much memory you have. From what I have read, you set the page
file size depending on how much memory you have and the more you have the
bigger it gets. Anyway, all I can say (only having 1Gb of RAM!) is that it
worked for me. Could be worth a try as it is not difficult to do and you
don't even have to change it back if it doesn't help! :0))

Iain

"Ibby (The Artist formally known as Chris)" <cj.ibbotson@ntlworld.com> wrote
in message news:9hMOe.39$o4.4@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
> Iain, surely if he has a very high spec machine windows shouldnt need to
> access the pagefile. Jose said he had 2Gb ram.
>
> Ibby
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:19:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I don't even have a pagefile ;)  disabled it long time ago, as Chris
said is not needed. If I have the resources available, and also specify
a page file then I'm shooting myself in the foot because windows
'eventually' could make use of that file (making things slower).
However, with 2GBs I've yet to see an error for not having one.
Remember, pagefiles are NOT a resource available for the machine to use
in normal circumstances, they are an extreme measure, so don't even
make it available as a resource if you have the memory to spare.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:19:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>I don't even have a pagefile ;)  disabled it long time ago, as Chris
>said is not needed. If I have the resources available, and also specify
>a page file then I'm shooting myself in the foot because windows
>'eventually' could make use of that file (making things slower).
>However, with 2GBs I've yet to see an error for not having one.
>Remember, pagefiles are NOT a resource available for the machine to use
>in normal circumstances, they are an extreme measure, so don't even
>make it available as a resource if you have the memory to spare.

Well, you should have on :-) Without it the programs lock up all the
physical memory, with 2Gb you are still far from ending up short but I
would not recommend disabling the page file with anything less...

XP is not W95, leave that setting alone as well as most services (I
only disable two or three for security purposes only), days of
scrounging for EMM386 are gone by <G>

See this page for an authoritative description of the virtual memory
in Windows:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alistair.nichol/articles/x...

===
All the best!
Katy Pluta
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 2:03:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I thought a page file was a virtual swap file, an allocated amount of hard
disk space for windows to swap information when inadequate ram is available
resulting in a slow down in instructions and HD light flashing.

Ibby

"Iain Smith" <iainsmith.rugby@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:D eg3sg$1p5$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Ibby, I'm not too sure of this but I think Windows uses the page file no
> matter how much memory you have. From what I have read, you set the page
> file size depending on how much memory you have and the more you have the
> bigger it gets. Anyway, all I can say (only having 1Gb of RAM!) is that it
> worked for me. Could be worth a try as it is not difficult to do and you
> don't even have to change it back if it doesn't help! :0))
>
> Iain
>
> "Ibby (The Artist formally known as Chris)" <cj.ibbotson@ntlworld.com>
> wrote in message news:9hMOe.39$o4.4@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>> Iain, surely if he has a very high spec machine windows shouldnt need to
>> access the pagefile. Jose said he had 2Gb ram.
>>
>> Ibby
>
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 2:28:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jose,

I have now experimented with the setting and you're right - setting it to
"very small" does smooth out turns noticeably but it also degrades the
quality of some graphics, notably the liveries on AI aircraft. Even when set
to "small" as opposed to "very small" airline titles such as "British
Airways" become blurred and unreadable. This was not so noticeable on my own
aircraft but Ultimate Traffic's AI planes were definitely affected.

I'm running at the moment with the slider set to "medium" as a compromise to
see how that goes. However, the thing that puzzles me is that this must be a
graphic card issue. You've got a top end Geforce 6800 and I have a Geforce
6600GT so is this an Nvidia issue? I wonder whether any of our ATI using
compatriots have tried this? :0))

Iain

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
> Hi guys,
>
> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
> menu in FS2004?
August 24, 2005 2:47:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Tried a software called RamDisk 7.0 (From a company called SuperSpeed)
and did the following:

From the main fs9 Scenery folder I moved the following directories to
the Ram Drive (I also updated the path in scenery.cfg accordingly):

Scenery/BASE
Scenery/Cities
Scenery/Generic
Scenery/Namw
Scenery/Props
Scenery/Vehicles
Scenery/World

Results? Same.. exactly the same thing.. so, this is NOT Disk I/O
related.

I experimented a bit and created a Page file (1.0GB) in the RAM Disk,
same effect.

Conclusion? the bottle neck in FS9 for texture loading is NOT the disk.
(at least in my case)

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:35:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

to me your micro stutters sound more like a physical failure in something.

try *UNDERclocking* various components and see if it smooths it out.
try underclocking the video card and video ram, or the cpu, cpu ram..

i've had experience with micro stutters when i've overclocked components to
the edge of their envolope

--
**********
shu

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124832472.15703@forums.simradar.com...
> I don't even have a pagefile ;)  disabled it long time ago, as Chris
> said is not needed. If I have the resources available, and also specify
> a page file then I'm shooting myself in the foot because windows
> 'eventually' could make use of that file (making things slower).
> However, with 2GBs I've yet to see an error for not having one.
> Remember, pagefiles are NOT a resource available for the machine to use
> in normal circumstances, they are an extreme measure, so don't even
> make it available as a resource if you have the memory to spare.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:46:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Well i think my Install of FS9 has gone wrong. It was working fine before,
then i had a ram failure, and only had half the ram as normal.... 512mb. FS9
Worked, but didnt really like only 512mb ram.

Ive since got my 1gig back, however FS9 STILL is acting wierd. Including the
stutter you talk about.

Looking at the FPS, i had it locked at 60. Every few seconds it would drop
to 30. causing the stutter mentioned. Where as before i didnt DO that it was
solid 60 most of the time.

So i set the fps limit to 30 and it fixed most stuttering but i lost half my
fps!

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb


"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
> Hi guys,
>
> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
> menu in FS2004?
>
> I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
> since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
> *WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
> yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
> failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
> the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
> Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
> Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
> effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
> do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
> 25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.
>
> Does the Global Max Texture Size setting in FS2004 affect you in any
> way? if you want to know if you have stutters or not simply take a fast
> aircraft and do a 30 degree turn. Fly in circles and do two full 360's.
> Watch closely the smoothness of the sim as you do this, it should be
> completely fluid if your frame rates are constant (SHIFT-Z) to check
> Frame rates.
>
> My setup:
> FX-53 (FSB overclocked 10%, 6800 Ultra Extreme 450/1200, 2GB RAM, WD
> 7200RPM Disk RAID 0 configuration)
>
> Take care,
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:46:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Considering the human eye can only register 25-30 fps what does it matter if
it drops from 60-30. Surely you are only noticing cause FS is telling you
its dropped.

Ibby

"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eoGdnZ2dnZ2VR3y4nZ2dnf3nkd6dnZ2dRVnyqJ2dnZ0@eclipse.net.uk...
> Well i think my Install of FS9 has gone wrong. It was working fine
> before, then i had a ram failure, and only had half the ram as normal....
> 512mb. FS9 Worked, but didnt really like only 512mb ram.
>
> Ive since got my 1gig back, however FS9 STILL is acting wierd. Including
> the stutter you talk about.
>
> Looking at the FPS, i had it locked at 60. Every few seconds it would drop
> to 30. causing the stutter mentioned. Where as before i didnt DO that it
> was solid 60 most of the time.
>
> So i set the fps limit to 30 and it fixed most stuttering but i lost half
> my fps!
>
> --
> From Overlag - Adam Webb
>
>
> "Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in
> message news:1124811293.15705@forums.simradar.com...
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Can anybody comment on the effect of the Global Max Texture Size slider
>> when set to very small instead of massive in the display -> hardware
>> menu in FS2004?
>>
>> I used to have stutters (short pauses) that lasted less than a second
>> since the day I got the sim. I simply accepted the fact that FS2004
>> *WILL* stutter no matter what. However, I spent the better part of
>> yesterday analyzing, benching and flying to test new tweaks. Everything
>> failed and I had no improvement by tweaking XP, so I started analyzing
>> the effect of almost every slider in the sim. Of all of them, the
>> Global Max Texture Size slider was the ONLY one that, when set to Very
>> Small, completely eliminated stutters. I simply want to check if the
>> effect is only on my setup. I do have a high end machine... note that I
>> do not have a problem with frame rates... (24 FPS average, locked at
>> 25) it is the stutters that spoil the immersion factor for me.
>>
>> Does the Global Max Texture Size setting in FS2004 affect you in any
>> way? if you want to know if you have stutters or not simply take a fast
>> aircraft and do a 30 degree turn. Fly in circles and do two full 360's.
>> Watch closely the smoothness of the sim as you do this, it should be
>> completely fluid if your frame rates are constant (SHIFT-Z) to check
>> Frame rates.
>>
>> My setup:
>> FX-53 (FSB overclocked 10%, 6800 Ultra Extreme 450/1200, 2GB RAM, WD
>> 7200RPM Disk RAID 0 configuration)
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
>> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
>
>
August 24, 2005 6:46:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:15:15 +0000 (UTC), "Ibby \(The Artist Formally
Known as Chris\)" <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> brought the
following to our attention:

>Considering the human eye can only register 25-30 fps what does it matter if
>it drops from 60-30. Surely you are only noticing cause FS is telling you
>its dropped.
>
>Ibby

Was going to mention the same thing.. 30 fps would seem just fine.
If you'd like 25 fps (for example).. then set target for 29. Some of
us have target set for 19.. so the nominal framerate is 16 fps. I can
tell you that framerates in the teens (not talking under-age here) are
usable.. have been doing it for years. Sometimes you switch to a
demanding scene.. and WOAH!! must have dipped below 10!!
But why would you obsess over and monitor fps? Wouldn't tuning NAV
radios, tracking radials, and monitoring DME be much better? What are
the physiological magic numbers? something like 16, 30, and 60?

-Gregory
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:46:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Gregory you have just opened a can of worms and started a new debate on
whats acceptable to the eye. I personally get between 20-50fps but can drop
to about 10-15 depending on where I'm at. Have all settings at max which
system can handle well with slow aircraft but jets would give me about 15
fps through the likes of manhatton.

Ibby

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8h0pg1p1s6913sr5rqa635otgir2dejgl2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:15:15 +0000 (UTC), "Ibby \(The Artist Formally
> Known as Chris\)" <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> brought the
> following to our attention:
>
>>Considering the human eye can only register 25-30 fps what does it matter
>>if
>>it drops from 60-30. Surely you are only noticing cause FS is telling you
>>its dropped.
>>
>>Ibby
>
> Was going to mention the same thing.. 30 fps would seem just fine.
> If you'd like 25 fps (for example).. then set target for 29. Some of
> us have target set for 19.. so the nominal framerate is 16 fps. I can
> tell you that framerates in the teens (not talking under-age here) are
> usable.. have been doing it for years. Sometimes you switch to a
> demanding scene.. and WOAH!! must have dipped below 10!!
> But why would you obsess over and monitor fps? Wouldn't tuning NAV
> radios, tracking radials, and monitoring DME be much better? What are
> the physiological magic numbers? something like 16, 30, and 60?
>
> -Gregory
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:51:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> my 6800 Ultra memory is DDR3 (very high speed memory). The
> CPU is also High end.. so, there should be no pauses at all...

I know theres probably loads of Nvidia users out there with no issue but my
stuttering only really started once i got my Nvidia 7800gtx

Sure, i tripled my FPS from my old ATI9700pro, however it stutters like
crazy sometimes.

What drivers have you tried? Ive tried 77.72, 77.76beta and now have 77.77.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:51:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>> my 6800 Ultra memory is DDR3 (very high speed memory). The
>> CPU is also High end.. so, there should be no pauses at all...
>
>I know theres probably loads of Nvidia users out there with no issue but my
>stuttering only really started once i got my Nvidia 7800gtx
>
>Sure, i tripled my FPS from my old ATI9700pro, however it stutters like
>crazy sometimes.
>
>What drivers have you tried? Ive tried 77.72, 77.76beta and now have 77.77.

Did you make sure you completely cleaned the ATI drivers before
installing the NVIDIA card? Did you check the PCI latency? Video
drivers are very bad in this regard, they boost it and hog the bus,
use this tool to put it back to 32 if needed (and after each driver
change):
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=951

===
All the best!
Katy Pluta
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:53:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

tweakxp has a ram drive

http://www.totalidea.com/frameset-products.htm

not free after 30 uses though :( 

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124836380.15706@forums.simradar.com...
> True, but how can it be that by simply moving a slider you can
> COMPLETELY eliminate micro stutters and make the sim 100% fluid?
>
> This is what I have found so far with each of the available positions
> for the Global Texture Size slider:
>
> Very Small -> Perfect! not a single microstutter
> Small -> Perfect too
> Medium -> Near Perfect (almost unnoticeable)
> Large -> Very subtle microstuttering (0.5 secs)
> Massive -> Same as above, but more frequent
>
> Again, this may or may not be a big deal to some, because we are not
> talking about a terrible stuttering problem happening. It's very, very
> subtle. But when it comes to immersion it does have an effect, at least
> for me, maybe for others too.
>
> My conclusion, based on what I have found so far is that there is a
> bottle neck in the internal buses/bridges/AGP or I/O subsystem of my
> computer when running the sim with massive/high textures.
>
> Massive and High equals bigger files. So, there could only be three
> possible explanations for the microstutters:
>
> 1) Video card is receiving more data that what it can actually handle
> How to fix? Upgrade card
>
> 2) Video card is wasting GPU cycles because is waiting for textures not
> transferred quick enough to render on screen.
> How to Fix? Get a faster disk with very low access time (I Think access
> time is crucial here) or Create a RAM Drive with frequently used
> textures.
>
> Now, if you have the fastest disk and Graphic card and still have this
> problem where would you look? BUS LATENCY! So, I took the PCI Latency
> Tool and tried 32, 64, for all devices, then tried giving the RAID
> controller more time in the PCI bus, then the card.. same.. no effect.
> So where to look now?
>
> the only thing I know is that this is a problem related to either the
> sim sending the textures to the card too fast or too slow. I can answer
> this question if I'm able to setup a 1GB RAM Drive and get the textures
> from memory, instead of getting them from the harddisk. But, I don't
> know of any RAM Drive utilities for XP (free of course)
>
> The point I'm trying to make here is that there IS a bottleneck
> somewhere and I just want to make sure where it is. I would love to run
> with full massive textures. Besides, considering I'm using a High end
> system and I'm experiencing this problems is an indication of a
> 'problem' in the way the sim manages texture loading. Maybe FS2006
> should focus on memory optimizations to make predictive prefetching a
> priority to make better use of available system memory.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 6:55:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Windows XP NEEDS a pagefile. ENABLE it now.

It doesnt need to be x2 the system ram like Win98 just make one thats 1024mb
or something.

Have you tried Defraggin ya FS2004 drive? (ie where its installed)
--
From Overlag - Adam Webb

"Jose L Altuve Jr." <Jose L Altuve Jr.@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124832472.15703@forums.simradar.com...
>I don't even have a pagefile ;)  disabled it long time ago, as Chris
> said is not needed. If I have the resources available, and also specify
> a page file then I'm shooting myself in the foot because windows
> 'eventually' could make use of that file (making things slower).
> However, with 2GBs I've yet to see an error for not having one.
> Remember, pagefiles are NOT a resource available for the machine to use
> in normal circumstances, they are an extreme measure, so don't even
> make it available as a resource if you have the memory to spare.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:29:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>Conclusion? the bottle neck in FS9 for texture loading is NOT the disk.
>(at least in my case)

Just throwing ideas around... What about the sound card/drivers? I
remember distinctly a previous machine stuttering with the display
when sound was on, it was a bad match of video/sound/chipset drivers.

===
All the best!
Katy Pluta
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:39:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Do you have FRAPS so that a portion of flight can be exported at highest
allowable fps (30 I think) and post it on web so we can see what the problem
is. The avi would need compressed with a codec though as fraps makes huge
files.

Ibby

"Jose" <Jose@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124898389.14898@forums.simradar.com...
> Tried a software called RamDisk 7.0 (From a company called SuperSpeed)
> and did the following:
>
> From the main fs9 Scenery folder I moved the following directories to
> the Ram Drive (I also updated the path in scenery.cfg accordingly):
>
> Scenery/BASE
> Scenery/Cities
> Scenery/Generic
> Scenery/Namw
> Scenery/Props
> Scenery/Vehicles
> Scenery/World
>
> Results? Same.. exactly the same thing.. so, this is NOT Disk I/O
> related.
>
> I experimented a bit and created a Page file (1.0GB) in the RAM Disk,
> same effect.
>
> Conclusion? the bottle neck in FS9 for texture loading is NOT the disk.
> (at least in my case)
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
August 24, 2005 8:39:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

___| reply |__________________________________________________________

Do you have FRAPS so that a portion of flight can be exported at
highest
allowable fps (30 I think) and post it on web so we can see what the
problem
is. The avi would need compressed with a codec though as fraps makes
huge

_____________________________________________________________________
I'll give it a try tonight or tomorrow. I do have a DVD Recorder
connected to my computer, so I can capture the action directly on DVD
and encode later for viewing without any loss in FPS.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
August 24, 2005 9:44:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

yeah, tried that too. Disabled sound in game, and even disabled the
device in Device manager. (I have an Audigy 2 Gamer card with latest
drivers)

The underclocking suggestion by someone here sounds like a good idea to
try.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:36:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Did you make sure you completely cleaned the ATI drivers before
> installing the NVIDIA card? Did you check the PCI latency? Video
> drivers are very bad in this regard, they boost it and hog the bus,
> use this tool to put it back to 32 if needed (and after each driver
> change):
> http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=951
>
> ===
> All the best!
> Katy Pluta

it was a new install so yes the OS was "clean" :-)

i dont think its anything to do with PCI latency either, as this is a
PCIexpress card and its seperated from the PCI bus, where as AGP/PCI use
same bus.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:40:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Considering the human eye can only register 25-30 fps what does it matter
> if it drops from 60-30. Surely you are only noticing cause FS is telling
> you its dropped.

dont you dare say the human eye can only see 25fps.... you are serously
under-estimating the human body if you think that.

just because tvs use 25fps doesnt mean the human eye can only see that
much.... When will this myth die.....

and anyway YES i do notice it 60-30 is half the fps, therefor very noticable
drop in smoothness.


--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:42:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

its the Nvidia drivers im 100% sure of that....

Is it an AGP 6800ultra or a PCI express card?

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb


"Jose" <Jose@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124898389.14898@forums.simradar.com...
> Tried a software called RamDisk 7.0 (From a company called SuperSpeed)
> and did the following:
>
> From the main fs9 Scenery folder I moved the following directories to
> the Ram Drive (I also updated the path in scenery.cfg accordingly):
>
> Scenery/BASE
> Scenery/Cities
> Scenery/Generic
> Scenery/Namw
> Scenery/Props
> Scenery/Vehicles
> Scenery/World
>
> Results? Same.. exactly the same thing.. so, this is NOT Disk I/O
> related.
>
> I experimented a bit and created a Page file (1.0GB) in the RAM Disk,
> same effect.
>
> Conclusion? the bottle neck in FS9 for texture loading is NOT the disk.
> (at least in my case)
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
August 25, 2005 3:42:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

It's AGP Adam, and Yes... it could be a driver issue too.

Maybe too much data being pumped to the card and the card/driver
ignoring/droping the data? (much like a dropped network packet)

Yes, also tried the sound acceleration slider.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:33:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

how about dropping the sound acceleration down in Dxdiag?

sometimes that helps....or totally breaks it. Its worth a try though.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
"Jose" <Jose@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1124923409.9104@forums.simradar.com...
> yeah, tried that too. Disabled sound in game, and even disabled the
> device in Device manager. (I have an Audigy 2 Gamer card with latest
> drivers)
>
> The underclocking suggestion by someone here sounds like a good idea to
> try.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
!