AMD 4x4 is a long term solution to pin down Intel at 50%

Two dual core CPUs in desktop, 4x4 computing (quad cpu cores, quad graphics cores). There will be two banks of memory, two CPUs connect via ccHT gluelessly as in a 2P Opteron server, but at much lower system cost. 25.6GB/s memory bandwidth + 16GB/s I/O bandwidth.

I hope it can mixed CPUs, say one dual core and one quad-core, or a dual-core and an FPGA co-processor. Or, you can have one 4GHZ single core CPU for single threaded games, and one dual core for multithreaded ones. I also wonder about the rumored inverse threading.

4x4 is a long term strategic ccHT solution to pin down Intel permanently at 50% of AMD's performance. As Intel moves to quadcore, so does AMD, 4x4 will have 8 cores. AMD can keep this 2x desktop performance advantage until Intel develops something similar to ccHT and IMC to reduce system cost. Right now, Intel needs a Woodcrest server to compete against 4x4.

AMD is so smart.

I can hear Intel folks crying about AMD changing the rules, "unfair" they complain.

Intel's thinking is outdated. While the whole computing industry is looking to increase throughput, Intel is trying to increase complexity and squeeze last bit of single thread performance -- just like they did for GHZ. The AMD 4x4 technology will give AMD 80% higher performance on 80% of the benchmarks.

Do you want to buy an Intel Extreme processor for $999, or two 35 watt Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2s for $600? Do you want 100% performance improvment or alleged 20%? I think the choice is clear.

AMD should introduce a "4x4 capable" label for its boxed AM2 CPUs, much like the "HDTV capable" sticker on TVs. When people see the sticker, they know the 4x4 potential of the processor. The rest is all low end.

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Hey who says amd doesn't have a marketing department.....That guy should get hired by amd. Seriously this 2p is thing sounds really desperate and how come amd doesn't have one already built that can clober a conroe??? Sounds like amd will have to wait till next year to get an answer to intel......geee I sure hope the market shares gained and stock price don't take a dump.

Reply to qurious69ss

Quote :

Do you want to buy an Intel Extreme processor for $999, or two 35 watt Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2s for $600? Do you want 100% performance improvment or alleged 20%? I think the choice is clear.

Neither. If I were buying today an Opty 165 for $310 that would out perform anything you listed which only one of is available. In 2 months a E6600 for $320ish that would out perform all of the above.

How's the air up in your ivory tower?

Reply to xombie2000

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Hey who says amd doesn't have a marketing department.....

They do, read his/her blog.

Reply to xombie2000

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Neither. If I were buying today an Opty 165 for $310 that would out perform anything you listed which only one of is available. In 2 months a E6600 for $320ish that would out perform all of the above.

How's the air up in your ivory tower?

Well. Since there is a budget contraint, isn't it better to buy a AM2 X2 3800+ (OC) and a 4x4 MB, then when needed, buy another X2 3800+ to fill the empty socket?

Reply to sharikou

Quote :

Hey who says amd doesn't have a marketing department.....That guy should get hired by amd. Seriously this 2p is thing sounds really desperate and how come amd doesn't have one already built that can clober a conroe??? Sounds like amd will have to wait till next year to get an answer to intel......geee I sure hope the market shares gained and stock price don't take a dump.

Conroe is pretty much an Intel fraud, dude. Who has seen a Conroe? Anand hadn't seen one when he wrote his paid pumping.

Intel is resorting to all sort of fraud. I understand they have 103K people to feed and Conroe is still 2 months away and their people are starving. But, that is no excuse for cheating:

Reply to sharikou

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Well. Since there is a budget contraint

There isnt.

Reply to xombie2000

I really don't see the relevance of a 2-socket dual core setup in the gaming market that the FX series is being marketed toward. I would say this would make a great "economical", comparatively, workstation though.

Quote :

Do you want to buy an Intel Extreme processor for $999, or two 35 watt Athlon 64 X2 3800+ AM2s for $600? Do you want 100% performance improvment or alleged 20%? I think the choice is clear.

The thing about the "choice" being offered is that the processors being targeted toward that platform are not your low end X2s, but your high-end FXs.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2638

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The new motherboards will be AM2 based, and take new AM2 FX-62 and higher -- all AM2 Athlon FX processors will have at least two cores

I may not be a hardcore gamer, but I would think that even they would be hard pressed to justify spending $2000 on 2 FXs. It also wouldn't make sense for AMD to allow the use of low-end processors since if the performance speed up is 100% as you claim, that would completely canabolize the sales of their higher end processors.

Quote :

I can hear Intel folks crying about AMD changing the rules, "unfair" they complain.

The thing about changing the rules is that people actually need to follow them. My concern is that we're just beginning to see games being optimized for 2 cores, doubling them again so soon won't yield noticable benefits until programs catch up.

If AMD really wanted to increase the performance of their product quickly, they don't need to release a new core or even a new platform. All they really need to do is fix their Crossbar issue.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/c [...] sis_4.html

Quote :

So, I have to state that I can’t find any indication of direct data transfers from one execution core to another in the Athlon 64 X2 processor. According to my tests, the most recent copy of data is always read from system RAM. This must be a limitation of the MOESI protocol implementation. The following seems to happen when data are accessed: on receiving a read request probe read that the second core puts on the system bus, the first core performs a write-back of the modified cache line into memory. After this write or at the same time with it, the requested line is transferred to the second core. If the data in the first core’s cache haven’t been modified, they are read from system RAM. Why is there no direct transfer between the cores via the crossbar switch? Ask AMD’s engineers about that!

Reply to ltcommander_data

Quote :

Hey who says amd doesn't have a marketing department.....That guy should get hired by amd. Seriously this 2p is thing sounds really desperate and how come amd doesn't have one already built that can clober a conroe??? Sounds like amd will have to wait till next year to get an answer to intel......geee I sure hope the market shares gained and stock price don't take a dump.

Conroe is pretty much an Intel fraud, dude. Who has seen a Conroe? Anand hadn't seen one when he wrote his paid pumping.

Intel is resorting to all sort of fraud. I understand they have 103K people to feed and Conroe is still 2 months away and their people are starving. But, that is no excuse for cheating

You must be joking man...you must be the last amd fanboy in the world who believes that crap, well except for madmodmike....HEY!!! is that you MMM???? I just love how you are using a blog to make your claim. :wink:

Reply to qurious69ss

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You must be joking man...you must be the last amd fanboy in the world who believes that crap, well except for madmodmike....HEY!!! is that you MMM???? I just love how you are using a blog to make your claim. :wink:

Did that Pentium 4 fry your core logic?

Reply to sharikou

Quote :

trying to do 4 cores so soon is just a deperation bid to take media attention away from conroe. they announced it in responce to the intel announced benchmarks against the amd 62 proc. besides amd says that they arent going to comeout with it untill the end of next year and intel is releasing one in Jan of next year.

and besides if you say conroe is a fraud then you have to say this new amd solution is a fraud because who has seen this?
amd is resorting to all sort of fraud as you akwardly put it

Dude, face it. 4x4 will outperform any Intel desktop system by 80% or more in majority of benchmarks, including modern multthreaded games such as Quake4, call of duty 2, oblivion etc. Intel simply doesn't have the technology to compete.

Reply to sharikou

Quote :

You must be joking man...you must be the last amd fanboy in the world who believes that crap, well except for madmodmike....HEY!!! is that you MMM???? I just love how you are using a blog to make your claim. :wink:

Did that Pentium 4 fry your core logic?

And what logic are you using that explains why a 2p system will be 100% efficient than a 1p?? Again this is just a PR stunt by Amd that will make it appear that they have an answer to intel's core2, they could of at least had one setup to show us how great it was going to be.

Reply to qurious69ss

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have you been living in a cave?
read this then shut it
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/har [...] e-Extreme-

if intel wanted to they could desperatly slap processors together on a board. if amd wants to compete that way they will get slap down clowned intel can produce in way more volume

I think single threaded SuperPI will be the only app that Conroe can outperform 4x4. It is so funny to see a bunch of script kiddies comparing superpi numbers....

Reply to sharikou

Quote :

trying to do 4 cores so soon is just a deperation bid to take media attention away from conroe. they announced it in responce to the intel announced benchmarks against the amd 62 proc. besides amd says that they arent going to comeout with it untill the end of next year and intel is releasing one in Jan of next year.

and besides if you say conroe is a fraud then you have to say this new amd solution is a fraud because who has seen this?
amd is resorting to all sort of fraud as you akwardly put it

Dude, face it. 4x4 will outperform any Intel desktop system by 80% or more in majority of benchmarks, including modern multthreaded games such as Quake4, call of duty 2, oblivion etc. Intel simply doesn't have the technology to compete.

WTF are you talking about?? Where are you getting this 80% number???

Reply to qurious69ss

Quote :

And what logic are you using that explains why a 2p system will be 100% efficient than a 1p?? Again this is just a PR stunt by Amd that will make it appear that they have an answer to intel's core2, they could of at least had one setup to show us how great it was going to be.

Unlike Intel's shared FSB based architecture, AMD's DCA with ccHT allows almost linear scaling. It's not 100% increase with the addition of a core, but it's close.

Reply to sharikou

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WTF are you talking about?? Where are you getting this 80% number???

The same place as the rest of his data....

Reply to xombie2000

Take this trash else where you stupid AMD fanboy.

Reply to Action_Man

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Take this trash else where you stupid AMD fanboy.

dude, there is no honor defending Intel the fraud. defending a fraud make yourself a fraud

Reply to sharikou

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i didnt know you have data showing how a amd 4x4 beats a conroe in some bench marks. please post the data for us to review.

Good luck with that.

Reply to xombie2000

Quote :

And what logic are you using that explains why a 2p system will be 100% efficient than a 1p?? Again this is just a PR stunt by Amd that will make it appear that they have an answer to intel's core2, they could of at least had one setup to show us how great it was going to be.

Unlike Intel's shared FSB based architecture, AMD's DCA with ccHT allows almost linear scaling. It's not 100% increase with the addition of a core, but it's close.

Ok so if this is true than a 2p opteron server should perform 100% better than a 1p opteron server right??? Do you have any proof? :?

Reply to qurious69ss

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Intel simply doesn't have the technology to compete.

ARGH man... those AMD fanboys make me seek
what about xeon dual-socket motherboards ??
if Intel want it.. they can produce a dual-socket Mb for conroe too
if they do that... what AMD can do ?? launch a 4-socket platform??
AMD admited defeat with that sad move to dual-socket platform

Reply to pentz0r

STFU fanboy. No-one wants you here so do everyone a favour and fock off.

Reply to Action_Man

If I recall correctly, at the IDF they had a 2 socket clovertown (4 core per socket) set up going.

Reply to xombie2000

People still have doubts about the real benefit of a dual core cpu for a gaming system, mostly because there aren't many game tittles for dual cores yet. How could you buy into the "AMD 4 cores or more" crap. If you come back and post the same post about 2 years from now, then it may be a good post. But as of right now, no hard core gamers with the right mind will go out and buy that piece of junk 4 cores from AMD when it is released next year ( if AMD is dumb enough to release it).

Also, I believe Intel was the first to release dual core cpu for consumer desktop, not AMD.

Reply to noblekitty

The fact is that Core 2 simply destroy current FX processors to the ground
and the fact is that Conroe will have the performance crown
a dual-socket platform can't take it
they will probably get the platform performance crown.. but not the processor performance crown

take that sad AMD fanboys

Reply to pentz0r

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yep clovertown has been on the map for a couple of years. I think intel has a 4 proc coming out in q1 of 06 and clovertown in q3 of 06 but ill have to double check that

I think clovertown is now Q1 '07.

Reply to xombie2000

Quote :

i like how sharikou=loser votes for his own post and gets a star
lol

Umm... Actually, that's me.

I'm smacking him down 'cause he is simply spamming. So any of his posts that I see of his will get an automatic 1 star.

All his posts are baseless since he is not providing any data to his claims. On his blog he lists "Ph.D" after his name. I suppose it is possible that he has a Ph.D considering that a rockpile has a higher IQ than George W. Bush, yet he is the president.

***Off Topic***

Speaking about Bush, I am encouraging all of my friends to unilaterially vote against all Republicans come election day since the Bush Administration decided to cut NYC's terrorism budget by 40%. That a cut of over $100 million. That's dispite the fact that there have been two successful attacks in NYC. Also since NYC is the US financial capital, there will be national reprocussions if the financial market is hit.

Also, the terrorism budget for Washington D.C. has been cut as well. While I think many politicians will be serve this country better when they are buried 6 feet under, there are some politicians who really are helping this nation while in office.

Reply to jaguarskx

Hehe Sharikou, you are rather entertaining. Unfortunately, you are also a huge embarressment to anyone who enjoys AMD. I have used AMD almost exclusively for about 15 years now, and I really like supporting the underdog in my small way.

The landscape looks like it is changing. If Conroe is everything it is purported to be, and AMD do not react on its' release with some pretty funky footwork, then any person building a new system is going to have to be a pretty staunch supporter to continue with AMD.

I, for one, hope that AMD can pull something out the bag, because I would love to be able to continue using their product. However, making outrageous and entirely unsubstantiated claims supporting a technology announcement which has hardly even left the lips of the marketing department of a company who are clearly feeling the pressure, is ridiculous and juvenile.

In a nutshell, please carry on with your blog if it makes you happy. Just maybe keep it on your local network.

Reply to anton

This is all well and good for rich (or stupid ) foke, I mean this will amount for mabey 5% of amd sales .What is of intrest to me and most other people is the low end and is seems that sharikou has just admited that the pentium d 805 is the better by over the same priced amd single cores. After all more cores is better right?

Also if i do win the lottery, what would make a better buy a woodcrest system or a dual amdfx system

Reply to gallag

sharikou Ph.D. - Piled Higher and Deeper

Reply to Action_Man

In defense of the technology, there are some things that an Intel dual core, with HT does very well.
If this type of arrangement were available at conroe release, it could match the 6700 fairly well (might even win by a percent or two).
You do have to wonder if there is anyone willing to pay 4X as much for 1 or 2 %. Then there is the question of heat and power.
Of course, if it does only beat the 6700 by a % or two, how will it fair against the EE6800?

Reply to endyen

maybe it was only a typo error..

ahh, let me see.. did you mean this:

4X4 = 50% - 100% more power consumption over Core 2 Extreme

4X4 = 50% - 100% more expensive over Core 2 Extreme

4X4 = 50% - 100% more heat generated over Core 2 Extreme

or

4X4 - sharikou's blog = 50% 100% more Fanboism Posting?

hehehehe... peace o_O

Reply to ivan_lee05

I can see this Dual-CPU thing being pretty useful for people interested in price/performance. Get a decent CPU now, add a second one later. But still, the fact that AMD is touting the fact that they can use two CPUs seems to indicate that they don't have much in the way of confidence in their CPUs. IMO this is something of a knee-jerk reaction.
And come on sharikou. Some of your arguments hold logic, but you're citing yourselfto back your arguments. That leads me to the conclusion that you're the only one saying these things.

Reply to shinigamiX

OK guys, I think I might refresh you guys on what everyone thought about Nvidia putting dual video cards in a system. It was essentially the same thing as what I'm seeing here.

There were tons of comments like:
"I'm not going to buy a second video card!",
"Damn Nvidia, why do we need a second card, it won't even be any better."

We'll we all know what happened once these SLI motherboards were made, everyone wanted one and Nvidia sold craploads of their top of the line video cards! And you are telling me that you will not want a 4X4 (Opteron Quad core) sitting in your room to play multithreaded Battlefield 2 on!???

Whatever. The poor (low money) guys are simply whining and just envious because the gamers with fundage will soon be buying the crap out of 4X4. Also, I believe AMD is going to have special FX cpus that work in 4X4 and that they will also offer a super discount for these CPU's, so it's going to be priced competitive with a top of the line single dual core chip.

Anyway you slice it this is AWESOME NEWS for gamers. What gamer is going to buy a dual core system when they can get a quad core 4X4 for about the same price. It uses regular non Ecc, unbuffered ram, just like other enthusiast boards, and the cpus will be next to each other and can actually be cooled by the single heatsink. And the board will work with a single video card and single cpu so you can always postpone purchasing the second cpu later when funds allow it. And also, when quad cores come out you can just drop in a quad core chip into each socket to effectively make an 8 core system if you are so inclined. If anything it would be a great way to upgrade your system years later when you can pick up some quad cpus real cheap.

Plus, how much do you guys want to bet that the new 4X4 dual socket motherboards will be cheaper than Intel's 975boards. Now that's unheard of. A 2P motherboard for less than a 1P motherboard!

And if there is anyone that has any doubts as to what quad core Opterons can do in terms of benchmarks, just do a search. You will be freaking amazed at how much ass they kick!!! Below is a link to benchmarks with 4 Opteron cores in action.

Keep in mind these specs are based on old Opterons, the new Rev F Opterons that 4X4 is based on will be even faster.
http://www.aceshardware.com/SPECmi [...] 00&o=0&o=1

Reply to itguy

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We'll we all know what happened once these SLI motherboards were made, everyone wanted one and Nvidia sold craploads of their top of the line video cards!

And we know that all of them are using SLI, oh wait, no they're not!

Quote :

And you are telling me that you will not want a 4X4 (Opteron Quad core) sitting in your room to play multithreaded Battlefield 2 on!???

BF2 is multithreaded?

Quote :

Anyway you slice it this is AWESOME NEWS for gamers. What gamer is going to buy a dual core system when they can get a quad core 4X4 for about the same price.

How many games take advantage of four cores?

STFU noob.

Reply to Action_Man

Quote :

How many games take advantage of four cores?
STFU noob.

There are already lot's of multi-threaded games and the better question that you should have asked is, "How many games will take advantage of multiple cores?"

The answer, almost all of the best games!

That's why Alienware's CEO said that "4X4 will bring the world much closer to having a truly immersive gaming experience". It's also why Alienware is very excited about it and will be rolling out Alienware systems based on it as soon as they can.

So yes, I'm a noob and so is Alienware, and so is Dell, since they own Alienware now.

So why don't you STFU. Idiot Asshole!

Reply to itguy

did you forget electric bills?

4X power consumption of a stock Opteron..

did you forget that, Core 2 Extreme doesnt stop @ 2.93Ghz?

well, there is 3.5Ghz as posted here @ THG.

consume only about 65w. =)

and perform like those 4 opteron cores.. =)

and oops. you might want to know that the Old 939 is better performer than the worse AM2..

Reply to ivan_lee05

Name some you stupid noob.

Reply to Action_Man

Woww! This Sharika Guy is so incredably Bias. it's not even funny. People are looknig for a Single Die, Multi-proccesser solution not exacly a Multi-die, multi-processer solution. Which will double my Processer chip costs but cut down the Energycosts

Reply to YO_KID37

You, my friend, are a total ignorant :lol:

Reply to Ycon

Quote :

have you been living in a cave?
read this then shut it
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/har [...] e-Extreme-

if intel wanted to they could desperatly slap processors together on a board. if amd wants to compete that way they will get slap down clowned intel can produce in way more volume

You mean like Prescott?

Reply to BaronMatrix

FYI, this guy is just trolling for traffic. Just let the thread die, he is contributing nothing.

Reply to iterations

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AMD 4x4 is a long term solution to pin down Intel at 50%

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