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AMD Athlon 64 3500+ vs. AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Help Please?

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June 3, 2006 9:37:39 PM

Hi,

I am currently in the process of making a new computer for myself. Here's the specs:

-Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Aluminium Tower with Window - Black

-Abit AT8-32X ATI RD580 Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard

-1GB Ram PC3200

-Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 10 NCQ 250GB 6V250F0 SATA-II 16MB Cache

-Pioneer DVR-111DBK 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter

-Hiper HPU-4B580 Type R 580W Modular ATX2.2 PSU

-Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)


The problem is that i need to know what ram to buy and which cpu. I can't decide between an Athlon 64 3500+ (Venice Core) or an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Manchester Core)

Can i have ideas and help please, Much Appreciated, Thanks.
June 3, 2006 10:10:57 PM

No,right now it's not the time to build a socket 939 based system.
Either go for an AM2 chip(here i recommend a X2,but they aren't in stock yet at most stores) or wait for Conroe.
June 3, 2006 10:15:33 PM

Thanks for the info.

However, i have been looking through the cpu interactive chart and compared both the cpu's, and the 64 3500+ comes out on top in most of the benchmark tests. Any comments?

Which AM2 mobo would you recommend for crossfire?
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June 3, 2006 10:24:32 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the info.

However, i have been looking through the cpu interactive chart and compared both the cpu's, and the 64 3500+ comes out on top in most of the benchmark tests. Any comments?

Which AM2 mobo would you recommend for crossfire?


It would be a bad idea to be an early AM2 adopter as you will pay a premium for possibly unpolished products. While S939 will eventually be outpaced by AM2 as it matures, you can get a lot of value for your money by going S939.

As far as single vs dual cores go, you need to keep in mind that dual cores really shine in multithreaded apps and multitasking. As far as I am concerned, I really enjoy having two cores to work with for the use I make of my computer.

It is up to you to evaluate if you plan on exploiting that kind of processing power.
June 3, 2006 10:33:37 PM

OK, then how long would you think that it would take for the s939 mobo's to become outdated, ie outpaced by AM2 Crossfire (not available yet) and i will mainly be playing games and high graphics programs.

So based on those criteria, would you say that it would be a good idea to go with the specs i listed above, because i won't really need to upgrade my computer within the next year or two to go any faster i.e. with cpu or mobo.

p.s. i am a newbie at all this, ideas would be much appreciated, thanks.
June 3, 2006 10:56:23 PM

I had a AMD 64 3500 with a Asus A8v. It was replaced by insurance with a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum. Same cpu, ram, but an inferior PSU.

New PC is so much faster with this motherboard. If your unsure of which mobo to use I can recomend this one.
June 3, 2006 10:57:27 PM

As far as gaming is concerned, the GPU has a bigger impact on gaming performances than the CPU, as such, your best bet would be to get the best video card you can afford (but no need to get a factory overclocked one), a decent motherboard and a sufficient CPU. Chances are that S939 CPUs will still be available well into 2007.

Just look at my sig, that Radeon 9700 held out until now, it's almost 3 years old and I kept it through 3 platform upgrades (Asus A7V333 & 2.2GHz Tbred-B 1800+, Abit NF7-S & 2.6GHz Mobile Barton 2500+ then my current 'rig).

Then again, I mostly play MMOs which tend to lag behind single player games in terms of 3D engines. I'm now considering getting a 7800GS to replace it as it is likely that the next MMO I'm interested in will be based on a Dx9.0c engine but I'm in no hurry as it's not yet in Open Beta.

It may seem pointless to get an AGP video card but upgrading to PCI-E would mean getting a new mobo as well, which implies having to dismount my watercooling 'rig, possibly replacing a few tubes since the socket won't be located in the same area and familiarising myself with a new mobo which won't necessarly overclock as seemlessly as my current one allows me to.
June 3, 2006 11:14:54 PM

Why not save up a little and then get an X2 4200? That's the equivalent of 2 * 3500s.

Actually, either the 3500 or the 3800 would do very nicely though the dual core 3800 is much smoother and could pretty easily overclock from 2.0 to 2.2 GHz. Each of my sons have a 3500 in their boxes. I'm writing this on a Linux only X2 3800, which I like a lot. If prices do start to fall some in the near future, I'll probably upgrade them to X2 3800s. Very nice procs.
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June 3, 2006 11:44:55 PM

I agree wait for conroe

MSI - hell NO

Crossfire? what bout SLI? open your options to both.
June 4, 2006 12:11:29 AM

Well, it depends on when you want it and how much you want to pay.
I have an X2 OCed to 2.3...will go to 2.5 once I get a better cooler.
It runs games fine, and they're only limited by my 6800GS. I also enjoy being able to have like 10 things open with minimal lag. It's worth it in my opinion to buy the X2 than the 3500. But if you want to wait for Conroe and check that out too, I wouldn't blame you. Again, depends on when you want it and how much you're willing to pay.
June 4, 2006 12:24:25 AM

Dual core processors is always a good idea... in near future all aplications will become multithreaded, but now a single core 3500+ runs at 2200Mhz and is easy to overclock it to 2500MHz with no extra coolers or special memory and 3500+ is cheaper. Here in Brazil a dual core is realy expensive, more than $500 for a 3800+ X2. Toms hardware recently tested expensive memories against cheap ones and the conclusion is.... the best and expensive one brings no more than 3% of overall performance to the computer. Choose a good one but not expensive, for exemple a Kingston Value Edition DDR400 CAS 3.0.

I tried two configurations from a friend of mine, a X2 4200 and a overclocked 3500+ at 2420MHz(10% overclocked), when rendering a 1Hour video using sony vegas 6.0 the overclocked one was almost as fast as the X2
June 4, 2006 12:34:33 AM

x2 3800...got mines to 2.65 with 1 volt more..runs cool as whatever...and nothing can stress it period...application or game wise...the better choice for now and the future is dual core period
June 4, 2006 12:37:17 AM

You mean 0.1Volts not 1Volt.... 1 Volt more is almost double the default value...
June 4, 2006 1:00:10 AM

Quote:
Hi,

I am currently in the process of making a new computer for myself. Here's the specs:

-Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Aluminium Tower with Window - Black

-Abit AT8-32X ATI RD580 Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard

-1GB Ram PC3200

-Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 10 NCQ 250GB 6V250F0 SATA-II 16MB Cache

-Pioneer DVR-111DBK 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter

-Hiper HPU-4B580 Type R 580W Modular ATX2.2 PSU

-Connect3D ATI Radeon X1800 XT 256MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express)


The problem is that i need to know what ram to buy and which cpu. I can't decide between an Athlon 64 3500+ (Venice Core) or an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Manchester Core)

Can i have ideas and help please, Much Appreciated, Thanks.


Go with the dual core. The benefits of doing that over a single core will be more and more apparent as time goes on. I have the 3800 X2 and it has yet to break a sweat in my system. As for your benchmarks question, the X2 is the one that comes out on top in most benchmarks and by a large margin. Look at some aside from just the framerates on old school games. Framerate benchmarks really aren't a good benchmark of a processor. The reason the 3500 comes out on top in some of those benchmarks is likely just due to how the game makes use of the processor and graphics card, and the fact it was written before dual cores existed.

I'd recommend getting 2GB of ram. If you're only going one GB the ram I have is the ram I recommend.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

The Tsunami case is great. Only bad thing is the side fan is ridiculously noisy. I have mine currently disabled, you really don't even need it.

AM2 is a waste of money right now. 939 is going to be around and viable for a long time to come. Don't bother waiting for Conroe if you need to build a system soon. Conroe isn't going to be so revolutionary that it's going to make anything built now obsolete anytime soon.

Get the X2, you'll be happy you did.

Cheers,
Eric
June 4, 2006 2:25:12 AM

I'd say go for the X2 or the cheapest S939 you can get and upgrade later (3000+ @109).

I would strongly recommend 2GB (2 1GB stix) of Corsair XMS, OCZ or Crucial.

I would advise against SLI or Crossfire, a single top of the line card like the 7900GT/GTX or X1900XT/XTX will have better price/performance.

Good luck! :-D
June 4, 2006 6:48:30 AM

Quote:
I had a AMD 64 3500 with a Asus A8v. It was replaced by insurance with a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum. Same cpu, ram, but an inferior PSU.

New PC is so much faster with this motherboard. If your unsure of which mobo to use I can recomend this one.


Exactly the same setup and upgrade path here, and exactly the same improved results. Moving from Asus VIA xchipset to MSI's nForce4 made a huge difference.

To the original poster, if you're just gaming and will take another bigger upgrade in a year or so, I'd take the 3500+ and save my pennies for later on.
June 4, 2006 7:20:45 AM

Quote:
I had a AMD 64 3500 with a Asus A8v. It was replaced by insurance with a MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum. Same cpu, ram, but an inferior PSU.

New PC is so much faster with this motherboard. If your unsure of which mobo to use I can recomend this one.


Exactly the same setup and upgrade path here, and exactly the same improved results. Moving from Asus VIA xchipset to MSI's nForce4 made a huge difference.

To the original poster, if you're just gaming and will take another bigger upgrade in a year or so, I'd take the 3500+ and save my pennies for later on.



Indeed :-D nF4 is the best platform for S939.
June 4, 2006 9:11:43 AM

ok then, well then on your recommendations, what if i go for a s939 mobo with a 3700+ single core now, and later when the price drops for the X2 cpu's, i buy one of them, because the mobo i'm going to buy supports X2 cpu's as well. Or should i just buy an AM2 mobo now and wait.
June 4, 2006 11:05:41 AM

Quote:
ok then, well then on your recommendations, what if i go for a s939 mobo with a 3700+ single core now, and later when the price drops for the X2 cpu's, i buy one of them, because the mobo i'm going to buy supports X2 cpu's as well. Or should i just buy an AM2 mobo now and wait.


Well, If you're already going to spend over $200 I really think you should go a little higher and get the 3800 X2. Else do what someone else suggests and get a really inexpensive single core. An expensive single core (3700) is a not the best purchase.

Buying an AM2 right now unless you've money to burn or already have DDR2 ram from an intel board is a waste. DDR2 is not that great a jump right now. good 3200 ram can hold it's own against all but the most expensive DDR2. 939 is a matured platform that will still be viable for quite some time, AM2 is in it's infancy.

Seriously, buy the X2, 2GB of good 3200 ram on a 939 socket MB. It'll last you the next couple years (you may need more ram in time), and is the best price/performace purchase you can make in the price range you're talking. And as someone else said, unless you've got money to burn SLI is a waste as well. Just buy a good single vid card. Also, buying 2 of any vid card right now is nuts when directx 10 is coming out in less than a year.
June 4, 2006 5:29:58 PM

thanks for the info people, i will definately take all your comments into consideration.

People placing links to products on this forum, can you please send links that i can have deliveries to in the UK please, thank you.
June 4, 2006 5:36:22 PM

thanks for the info people, i will definately take all your comments into consideration.

People placing links to products on this forum, can you please send links that i can have deliveries to in the UK please, thank you.

p.s. Can people give me good places where i can buy good ram from please, thanks.
June 5, 2006 1:21:30 AM

Quote:


People placing links to products on this forum, can you please send links that i can have deliveries to in the UK please, thank you.

p.s. Can people give me good places where i can buy good ram from please, thanks.


As I live in the US, I really have no idea what places are good places to buy things from in the UK. I can only recommend the product. Crucial, OCZ, or Corsair are all good companies. You want low latency timing ram. The ram I recommend is about the best there is for 2x512MB, I don't have a specific recommendation for 2x1MB as I've not yet done alot of research on that capacity yet (will soon though as I need more ram myself), but the lower the numbers the better. You definately want a cas latency of 2.

Check out the company sites for the companies I recommend, they should have a list of vendors in the UK, or ask some friends over there where the best places to shop are.
June 5, 2006 11:56:57 AM

Best UK prices I've seen: scan.co.uk. There's also dabs.co.uk.
June 5, 2006 6:59:06 PM

Thanks ppl for the advice, i have decided to go for the "Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Retail)"

It will cost me about £190 inc. vat which is about $356

If anyone knows of anywhere where i can buy it from that sells it cheaper or will ship to the UK for cheaper than the price i found, then please reply back ASAP, thanks.
June 13, 2006 1:12:04 PM

I usually buy my comp stuff from Ebuyer, uk based site and really speedy on deliverys : www.ebuyer.com

192.26 inc VAT
AMD Athlon 64 (ADA3800BVBOX) X2 3800+ Socket 939 Dual Core 2.0ghz 512Kb and 512K
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/94640

Interestingly, or annoyingly if you see it that way, you could go AM2 for about the same price! (just the CPU mind you, the AM2 mobo will negate this saving)

£191.98 inc VAT
Athlon 64 3800 Dual Core 2.0GHz L2 cache AM2 940 pin
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/111288
!