ATI or nVidia? Which should I buy?

X1900XTX no question.

Both manufacturers have their share of problems. Between the two, I think the ATI card is the better performer, but really at such high end, you probably wouldn't notice the differnce between the two.
As for drivers, I don't know what you're talking about. I have an x800 and have never had driver problems. Had a Geforce 5900 before that and rarely had driver problems their, either.

What are you going to be using your video card for, games, video editing...?
ATI, I would say, has better image quality.
Nvidia plays opengl games better.
ATI has a more efficient sm3.
Nvidia cards are sli ready so if you own one than you can always add another card later.
ATI can enable fsaa + hdr at the same time.


As far as ATI drivers go, speaking on my own behalf I would say yes they are still crap, but, only with the older cards. The newer cards seem to work ok. Also ATI are improving the performance for some games. Whoknows though, maybe they're sacrificing image quality to do it.

ATI as for the drivers i dont htink there crap if anything i think nVida's drivers are crap, they only release em like once in a blue moon and always full of bugs and u have to track down beta drivers, at least ati comes out with new drivers once a month

I think you'd notice a difference of being able to use antialiasing with OpenEXR HDR, vs. not being able to with a Nvidia card.

Ditto.

Well, yes, HDR + AA is a good thing and currently only available with ATI. But won't Nvidia implement it soon, too, or am I confused?
If not, then go with the ATI all the way!

geez your all wrong, XGI is the clear winner 8O

No, they wont. If you want HDR + AA with Nvidia, you're going to have to wait until thier next generation card. It's a hardware issue, not a driver issue. Go with ATI.

Both win their share of test and benchmarks. X1900 can do HDR and AA which nVidia can't, so that's an advantage for ATI. Also, ATI has more features.

Next gen nVidia cards will be able to HDR + AA, current gens can't.

So, who is the best vendor to buy ATI cards from? For example, PowerColor, Sapphire, etc. Who has a reputation for high quality ATI cards?

Thanks

I have the Powercooler X1900XTX Retail and it has worked great. I mostly play BF2 and with my opty 170 I average about 90 frames with everything turned all the way up at 1600 X 1200. Most of the ATI cards seem like there made in the same place if you look at them so go with the one that has the best warranty. Powercooler has a lifetime warranty so thats why I choose them, good luck!!

There are actually quite a few titles now that can use HDR and antialiasing on Nvidia cards, but they must use some sort of workaround. (No I'm not referring to Source based games)

Cool, thanks man, I think you've helped me make my final decision, PowerColor X1900XTX, here I come!

Dont listen to these ATi fagz....it's nVidia all the way for the best cheating driver support, and the biggest payoff to developers to code games especially catered to them.

Join the Hive, and buy an nVidia card(I sure as hell did :tongue: ).

Resistance is futile.....

No seriously.....I hate ATi's crappy fucking drivers, and the fact that they try and make you use their shittty catalyst control centre to adjust settings.

I'll fukcing sprout maggots by the time that stupid CCC app loads for me to make adjustments....and when I'm ready to game...I dont want to deal with ATi's fag bullshiiit.

fucking faggot ass fuck fucking crap :roll:

Dont you just love playing an OpenGL game knowing that your running about 7 FPS slower than what you should be?....thanx ATi....you fucking Shit for brains asshole dipsticks :roll:

Since you've decided to opt for an ATi card, hopefully you wont have an issue with one of their drivers working incorrectly with a current game that your playing, because they'll make you fill out a ticket to submit a problem, apon which reciept, they'll probably laugh at, because their driver team is so swamped with fixing games from 2004 that they could never focus their attention on the problem you've submitted in the first place.

You'd better hope the ATi driver team get's it right the first time, because once it's written into driver code, it wont get changed unless some major organization(like 3D Nature) goes public about how bad ATi suck's ass.

And to those who know me, I've only been drinking a little tonight so go fuck your fucking selves.. :roll:

Also....I've personally had to flash a couple of brand spankin' new ATi cards to enable overcklocking, or unlock pipes on....and I fukcing hate flashing video cards when they're brand new....it's fukcing lame :roll:
At least with nvidia cards....you can change the pipe settings or overclock adjustment through a software tool like Rivatuner. I wont ever have to flash a video cards again untill I buy another piece of shit ATi card(which I will soon enough...fuck you Paul)...

If any of you have a permanent prescription for crabs, you can make some money off me also, I just thought I'd throw that in there right at the end...

Peace out.

Yeah, TWIMTBP is a huge benefit :roll: ; look at Oblivion. :wink:  

I try not to...I hate that F'ing game :roll:

Too slow paced for ya? Grape said it was hit or miss; some love it some hate it. I bought it without knowing if I'd like it or not. Used to play PC RPG's ages ago but never tried any of the ES's games until Oblivion. I'm hooked. That is the only game I play besides goofing around playing NFSMW over the LAN with the kiddies. I do need to take a 5-10 hour break and play through HL2 episode 1 someday soon. And all my buddies blew by me in BF2 and have doubled my points now; I stopped playing that when NFSMW came out.

Enjoy your Sunday GW.

Thank you for the unbiased opinion. Good thing this didn't turn into a flame war.

I am Paul...you do the same :wink:

Yeah, It would have been so LAME if someone had decided to use this as a soapbox to tout their loutish opinions on some friendly stranger asking for unbiased helpfull suggestions on what card they should plump a small fortune on. ;-)

Nice to see we are all adults and behave accordingly...Oh wait a minute, I think I'm in the wrong forum ;-) LMAO!!!!!!

JKay6969

If you werent a n00b here....you'd know that my post wasnt serious.













....well.....not that serious :roll:

And if you knew me, you'd realise that neither was mine ;-)

JKay6969

Ok, please tell me it was the post about Oblivion that wasn't serious, cause I understand where you're coming from on the driver side. :mrgreen:

Anywhoo, it's funny I did tell Paul just that, it's usually a love or hate thing with Morrowind/Oblivion.

I have found a few tweaks to improve CCC, but agree it still needs to be faster. If you ever do get another ATi card or if your wife uses the CCC for the X800GTO, then try using the 'Use Manual Detection Only' in the display properties, reduces initial boot time immensely from my experience (BTW the direct Cat 6.4 Mobile drivers shipped with CP from some strange reason, I had a chance to ply with them and they still boot a bit faster that's for sure, but the delay is nolonger anywhere near what it used to be. I just hope Vista makes all the load times better, but I'm skeptical of that based on past trends and what 'more secure' usually means.

Anywhoo, like Paul said, have a good Sunday, eh! 8)

[quote="GeneticWeapon"]
If you werent a n00b here....you'd know that my post wasnt serious.


so why post it???


5 ATI cards in 3 years due to upgrades,updated drivers every month and NEVER A PROBLEM!!!with ATI drivers!
9600 PRO,9800 PRO,x800xl,X850XT AND NOW x1900xtx...all are still working great!..go with what You feel best suits your needs>

I've never heard of that :?

You too Bro!  

I guess you really put me in my place by listing all those ATi cards you've owned  

I've owned at least double that ammount n00b, and I understand each of their architectures better then you'll ever learn in your very short stay here.

By the way, kinda an unrelated question, but I thought I'd ask. I'm probably going to purchase an X1900XTX thanks to all your guys' advice, that seems like the best card at the moment.

Assuming I buy this card, am I gonna be regretting it in a few months when a DX10 card is released? What's the approximate "shelf-life" of my X1900XTX going to be before I need to upgrade? And what will DX10 bring to the table that will make me want to upgrade the day it comes out?

Thanks again.

ROFL....short stay ..u kill me..iI was listing my own personal ones,not the other 30 or so rigs i've built for others in the last 3 years..

and Ya ya ,I've heard it all before..I've owned double this and I know more than u..blah blah...and the noob calling,,WOW!..original..

my comment was straight to the point..that i've used numerous ATI cards with absolutely no problems!which is a direct answer to his topic.

How long is a piece of string? ;-)

The benefit of being able to upgrade you GPU is also it's biggest weakness if you want bleeding edge performance...

I know that there are definately new cards on the horizon from both camps due to the fact, as you rightly put it, DX10 is on it's way...

The fact that nVidia and ATI like to refresh their line up every 6 months or so makes me feel that these new cards could be out in a matter of months. I have not heard anyhting concrete regarding the specs or expected release dates so anyones guess is as good as the next.

If you keep in mind that DX10 itself will not be released till January at the earliest, and more likely March due to VISTA being the only OS that will support it and it's slipping more often than a heard of dhiarretic camels ;-) you can take some solice in the fact that even if these cards are released shorthly after you make your purchase, it'll be 6 months or more before any games are released that can actually utilise them fully.

I just bought a lovely 7900GT because I don't want to take the risk of buying too high before a new wave of 'Next Gen' cards are released and am entirely happy with it. I don't care if these new cards come out tomorrow as I spent my money on a card that I wanted and I feel that it'll do me until VISTA launches at the very least. This allows me to start saving my pennies until VISTA launches and if I need to get a new card, I'll buy the best I can justify then.

If you are happy with what the 1900XTX will give you today, then why worry about tomorrow, cause if you worry too much about tomorrow, you will never be able to buy anything.

The questions you should ask yourself are...

Do I really need to upgrade?
What card fits my needs now?
Can I justify buying it?

If you cannot convince yourself to make the purchase, then hold off until the new cards inevitably come out and buy relatively quickly, that way you know you will get the longest period before the next wave.

Buying Top end GPU's is always a risky business as they are the most likely to be toppled first in the next gen as they are the driving force in the GPU war between ATI and nVidia.

I currently prefer nVidia cards as I really don't like the ATI CCC. It looks nice but is too sluggish to load for my liking. I have got an ATI in my second PC at the moment and if ATI decide to sort out their driver interface then I won't mind buying an ATI for that machine.

Go with what is right for you, cost, performance, drivers or whatever else makes you happy. Just be wary of taking advice from fanboys from either side, weigh up your options and decide what suits your needs best.

Good Luck

JKay6969

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your statements are either pure B.S., sweeping generalizations, or are based on outdated comparisons. Get your facts straight and stop trying to stereotype ATi and nVidia.

What part of his statement was pure B.S. ? :?
Most of it was pretty true besides the last line.

ATi & nVidia's image quality is about equal these days...and reviews across the web will support my statement.

As for ATi having more efficient SM3.0....it's simply not true. I welcome proof if it's out there.

im personaly a little bit of a fan boy for Nvidea or its just that i've only used Nvidea's
but right now the x1900xtx is the best video card out there and as for the drivers
i personaly like the Ati drivers more than the nvideas

I agree with you RandalFlagg...

I believe the image quality between the 79xx and 19xx are very close, so much so that you would be hard pushed to tell them apart in most games these days excluding games with specific issues with either.

As for ATI having a more efficient SM3 implementation how does anyone figure that? The plain fact that there are only a few FPS between the 1900XTX and the 7900GTX with the GTX having only 24 Pixel Shaders against the XTX's 48...surely that means that the nVidia solution is more efficient. Half as many Pixel Shaders for similar performance. Don't get me wrong the XTX beats the GTX on many benchmarks but the GTX beats the XTX on some too. I guess it comes down to what games are important to you that should help you decide what card is right for you.

I will say that due to the XTX's ability to render HDR and AA is a big hit against the GTX, although there are not many titles out that fully support HDR.

As for the statement about nVidia supporting SLI, the XTX supports Crossfire, so your point would be?

If you have an nVidia SLI ready mobo, I would advise getting a GTX or buying a Crossfire mobo and an XTX if dual GPU's is your thang. If not, I am not able to comment on compatibility of ATI cards running on nForce platforms or vice versa. I personally would only run an ATI card on an ATI chipset and vice versa...but that's just me ;-)

One thing that no-one seems to have mentioned is noise. I know that the GTX HSF is generally quieter than the XTX's although if you are willing to spend that sort of cash on a GPU, I'm sure if noise was an issue you'd be able to purchase an aftermarket solution such as the Zalman VF900 Cu which I have no doubt would solve this problem easily. Incidently the GTX is a cool running GPU compared to the XTX. I guess nVidia have to take their victories where they can ;-)

I hope my comments help you in your buying descision.

JKay6969

Yeah; the ATI drivers are totally fukc3d.

Funny thing Earnies, he has, and he's posted them here too, and OC'ed them here, and moded them here, and even sent me one he burnt, and he's owned nV and ATi so really, you can talk about the "I've built..." side of the fence, but he's actually proven it over time, you're still a noob who could say he owned PowerVR for all the difference it would make.



"Absolutely no problem" sounds more like 'never really done anything'. Because I've owned a bunch of cards from a bunch of makers and EVERY SINGLE ONE has had some limitation. Of course some of us are more demanding than others. If you think there's no problem, then you don't know enough about the cards. Whether they're big problems is a different story (I prefer my current card more than my previous one, but there still alot of things I'd fix).

Main thing is GW got valid points, and anyone who's used both knows that, they also know when it's a little hot sauce added for flava! :twisted:

Speaking of which just bought some "Blair's Jersey Death" hotsauce for work tomorrow. MMmmm! Sphincter-ific! :twisted:

LOL! RD, ain't seen you in a while. 8)

Well there are still minor differences, the key word being 'minor'. Even all things being equal, the AF quality will always be slightly better (at somewhat of a price) by enabling ATi's HQ AF because it goes to the old NV30 style of non-angular-bias AF, which of course is better, but at a bit of a penalty (sometimes still being tops depending on the game).

With Oblivion, which some people here aren't fans of and others are, there have been a few head-to-head screenies in some reviews that show better IQ, but really with the number of beta drivers floating out there trying to improve stuff, that might not be the case anymore. I'll see if I can find the review just for the info.



Depends on the idea of 'efficient' they both have their 'efficiencies' if you lookk hard enough, the GF7 is very strong in PS2.0, but ATi does have the branching advantage, not that many games exploit that (Oblivion once again being one of the potential few).

Also it should be said the OGL/DX advanatges do hold true somewhat, but depending on the situation and settings there are some obvious exceptions, which is good, because nV only being good at OGL would kinda suck considering the low number of OGL titles as a whole.

Yeah fun, nV versus ATi, now on to WesterDigital vs Seagate vs Hitachi/IBM! :twisted:

Surely it doesn't what with nV's 24 texture units to ATi's 16, and both having 16 ROPs? Or is it just pixel shaders that matter? :wink:



There ya' go, the THG mantra. Buy for the games and settings YOU play! 8)




Or better yet the Sapphire (whichis quiter than the reference design and cheaper) or the HIS ICEQ3 which is quieter, and better at cooling than the reference design, but usually as expensive or a little more. Both of those would be better than the Zlman IMO because they remove the hot waste air from the case, unlike the VF900 which bathes itself in it.



Except the GT/GTX overheating and failing is more common than the X1800/1900s, so even if the ATis are running at 90C, if they're stable that's better than a GTX running at 80C and failing;

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99895



If he goes with the best of those (the pick the games you play) it's the best advice he's gotten sofar, other than things sucking and maybe learning some new words. :twisted:

BTW, they all suck, S3 RULZ ! :tongue:

Two of the little piggies here has got my alter-ego on the verge of a banning (again )

This will be me for a bit :wink:

No disrespect FatFunkey but remember what the main purpose of a driver update is, it's to fix/resolve issues. If ATI are releasing a driver every month then it may suggest they have alot of issues.
But I can see your point. They are, at least, getting them resolved quickly.

Well, seeing as how Nvidia cards can't do openEXR & AA at the same time, I'd give the tip of the hat to Ati for top IQ.

There are a couple of other things, like the X1x00 series now uses an AF algorythm that isn't as angle-dependant as their old one (or Nvidia's current one). And Ati's AA is still recognized as prettier than Nvidias from what I've seen.

Having said that, the IQ between Nvidia & Ati has probably never been closer. Nvidia has stepped up to the plate on IQ since the 6x00 series, hopefully the trend will continue.

That's overly simplistic. Driver updates also increase performance & add new features.

It's ridiculous to assume that because Ati has made a commitment to release a driver once a month that they have more issues.
You could just as easily deduce that the reason is superior customer support.

I think it's simply a matter of philosophy:
ATI releases a new driver essentially each month. This gives the semblance that they are hard at work for their customers.
Nvidia releases their drivers whenever they feel they've made enough bug fixes and performance enhancements. This shows they're willing to work at these things, too.
I don't think they're different, just different ideas behind them with the same result: you get a driver that makes a difference to you every blue moon.

Exactly.

Your decision should consider the MB choice you made. If you get Nvidia Chipset , maybe you should stick with Nvidia solution (unless you going to single slot solution... but even with single slot, if you care so much for drivers and support, don't forget that chipset also requires update as well). If your chipset is ATI...well get ATI... if you already own a hi end MB solution... and will go for a hi end VGA solution...get the same support ...same developer...both Nvidia or ATi... maybe you should consider this before your VGA purchase....

Your decision should consider the MB choice you made. If you get Nvidia Chipset , maybe you should stick with Nvidia solution (unless you going to single slot solution... but even with single slot, if you care so much for drivers and support, don't forget that chipset also requires update as well). If your chipset is ATI...well get ATI... if you already own a hi end MB solution... and will go for a hi end VGA solution...get the same support ...same developer...both Nvidia or ATi... maybe you should consider this before your VGA purchase....

Your decision should consider the MB choice you made. If you get Nvidia Chipset , maybe you should stick with Nvidia solution (unless you going to single slot solution... but even with single slot, if you care so much for drivers and support, don't forget that chipset also requires update as well). If your chipset is ATI...well get ATI... if you already own a hi end MB solution... and will go for a hi end VGA solution...get the same support ...same developer...both Nvidia or ATi... maybe you should consider this before your VGA purchase....