Maximum rate of descent?

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
handle in an unpressurized aircraft?

Dallas
53 answers Last reply
More about maximum rate descent
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas

    Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops. The thing
    that springs to mind is the recent tragedy in Greece. If the plane
    depressurises and the crew are still in control (Not in that case)they will
    come down very fast, but you would definitely spill some gin. The big stuff
    like the 747 will stand some amazing forces when diving.

    Don't have the figures to hand at the minute unfortunately.

    Geoff


    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    > handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "GeoffC"
    > Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.

    Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in the
    mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down pretty fast,
    but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually speaking :-).


    Dallas
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    > "GeoffC"
    >> Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.
    >
    > Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in
    > the mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down
    > pretty fast, but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually
    > speaking :-).
    >
    >


    I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin the
    blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it does. I
    was on a 727 the night Tricky Dicky resigned, leaving Indianapolis we were
    on board at the gate at the terminal, the captain put his "goodbye" speech
    on the intercom, the passengers applauded afterwards, and we were off to
    Kansas City. Somewhere in between over FL 030, about the time the stew was
    by our seat with the drink cart, everyones ears started popping, etc., the
    oxygen masks dropped from the overhead, women & girlie boys started
    screeming, the captain put it into a emergencey dive to FL010, and I
    observed the following: the seats in front of me were empty - the seats in
    front of that had a middle aged man going out of his mind because the masks
    in that row hadn't dropped, even though there was NO sign of any actual
    oxygen diprivation to anyone
    so I stood up on my seat and reached over to poke him on his sweaty head
    that there were three masks hanging in the row behind him, unused - he
    didn't go around the passegeway, but rather leaped over the seat backs to
    get one of the masks, totally un-needed, behind him. In the meantime, my
    seat mate, and I, helped ourselves to a six pack of beer on the cart
    abandented by the stew to help the other panicking passengers. When she
    returned a little later, after we had reached a "safe" altitude, she noticed
    the half dozen empty beer bottles, and declined our offer to pay for our
    indulgance while plummenting to our death.......... Of course we might have
    actually plummented to our death, but............... Actual problem was the
    crew lost automatic cabin pressure and had to resort to manual, which was a
    very finicky process according to my CFI, who was then a TWA 1st officer...
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Beech45Whiskey wrote:
    >
    > FL030 is 3,000 feet and FL010 is 1,000 feet (at standard pressure).

    opps, what a difference a 0 makes.............
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Great story, CRaSH......you slay me sometimes : )

    Arthur

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:GauPe.125013$E95.24770@fed1read01...
    > Dallas wrote:
    >> "GeoffC"
    >>> Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.
    >>
    >> Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in
    >> the mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down
    >> pretty fast, but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually
    >> speaking :-).
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin
    > the blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it
    > does. I was on a 727 the night Tricky Dicky resigned, leaving
    > Indianapolis we were on board at the gate at the terminal, the captain put
    > his "goodbye" speech on the intercom, the passengers applauded afterwards,
    > and we were off to Kansas City. Somewhere in between over FL 030, about
    > the time the stew was by our seat with the drink cart, everyones ears
    > started popping, etc., the oxygen masks dropped from the overhead, women &
    > girlie boys started screeming, the captain put it into a emergencey dive
    > to FL010, and I observed the following: the seats in front of me were
    > empty - the seats in front of that had a middle aged man going out of his
    > mind because the masks in that row hadn't dropped, even though there was
    > NO sign of any actual oxygen diprivation to anyone
    > so I stood up on my seat and reached over to poke him on his sweaty head
    > that there were three masks hanging in the row behind him, unused - he
    > didn't go around the passegeway, but rather leaped over the seat backs to
    > get one of the masks, totally un-needed, behind him. In the meantime, my
    > seat mate, and I, helped ourselves to a six pack of beer on the cart
    > abandented by the stew to help the other panicking passengers. When she
    > returned a little later, after we had reached a "safe" altitude, she
    > noticed the half dozen empty beer bottles, and declined our offer to pay
    > for our indulgance while plummenting to our death.......... Of course we
    > might have actually plummented to our death, but............... Actual
    > problem was the crew lost automatic cabin pressure and had to resort to
    > manual, which was a very finicky process according to my CFI, who was then
    > a TWA 1st officer...
    >
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    CRaSH wrote:

    > oxygen masks dropped from the overhead, women & girlie boys started
    > screeming, the captain put it into a emergencey dive to FL010, and I

    I can't believe you screamed, Don! I thought you had some cojones?
    <g>


    Marcel
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    > handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >

    I just wanted to restate that the question involves an unpressurized
    aircraft, which likely would be flying below FL200. I say this because
    there are many comments about what happens at high altitudes and pressurized
    aircraft and that kind of confuses things.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Gary L. wrote:
    >
    > I just wanted to restate that the question involves an unpressurized
    > aircraft, which likely would be flying below FL200.

    Oh I donno, the unpressurized M/S Bell 206 can whiplash you up to FL600 in
    nothing flat!!
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Couldn't agree more - CRaSH is a true Classic!

    JW
    "Arthur" <simmeronlo@rogers.com> wrote in message
    news:N8qdnf9kzYXCC5PeRVn-oA@rogers.com...
    > Great story, CRaSH......you slay me sometimes : )
    >
    > Arthur
    >
    > "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:GauPe.125013$E95.24770@fed1read01...
    >> Dallas wrote:
    >>> "GeoffC"
    >>>> Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.
    >>>
    >>> Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in
    >>> the mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down
    >>> pretty fast, but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually
    >>> speaking :-).
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin
    >> the blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it
    >> does. I was on a 727 the night Tricky Dicky resigned, leaving
    >> Indianapolis we were on board at the gate at the terminal, the captain
    >> put his "goodbye" speech on the intercom, the passengers applauded
    >> afterwards, and we were off to Kansas City. Somewhere in between over FL
    >> 030, about the time the stew was by our seat with the drink cart,
    >> everyones ears started popping, etc., the oxygen masks dropped from the
    >> overhead, women & girlie boys started screeming, the captain put it into
    >> a emergencey dive to FL010, and I observed the following: the seats in
    >> front of me were empty - the seats in front of that had a middle aged man
    >> going out of his mind because the masks in that row hadn't dropped, even
    >> though there was NO sign of any actual oxygen diprivation to anyone
    >> so I stood up on my seat and reached over to poke him on his sweaty head
    >> that there were three masks hanging in the row behind him, unused - he
    >> didn't go around the passegeway, but rather leaped over the seat backs to
    >> get one of the masks, totally un-needed, behind him. In the meantime, my
    >> seat mate, and I, helped ourselves to a six pack of beer on the cart
    >> abandented by the stew to help the other panicking passengers. When she
    >> returned a little later, after we had reached a "safe" altitude, she
    >> noticed the half dozen empty beer bottles, and declined our offer to pay
    >> for our indulgance while plummenting to our death.......... Of course we
    >> might have actually plummented to our death, but............... Actual
    >> problem was the crew lost automatic cabin pressure and had to resort to
    >> manual, which was a very finicky process according to my CFI, who was
    >> then a TWA 1st officer...
    >>
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Great story Crash but we all have to ask....................did you enjoy
    the beer?

    Ibby

    "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    news:430eb8d6$0$25984$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > Couldn't agree more - CRaSH is a true Classic!
    >
    > JW
    > "Arthur" <simmeronlo@rogers.com> wrote in message
    > news:N8qdnf9kzYXCC5PeRVn-oA@rogers.com...
    >> Great story, CRaSH......you slay me sometimes : )
    >>
    >> Arthur
    >>
    >> "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    >> news:GauPe.125013$E95.24770@fed1read01...
    >>> Dallas wrote:
    >>>> "GeoffC"
    >>>>> Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.
    >>>>
    >>>> Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in
    >>>> the mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down
    >>>> pretty fast, but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually
    >>>> speaking :-).
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin
    >>> the blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it
    >>> does. I was on a 727 the night Tricky Dicky resigned, leaving
    >>> Indianapolis we were on board at the gate at the terminal, the captain
    >>> put his "goodbye" speech on the intercom, the passengers applauded
    >>> afterwards, and we were off to Kansas City. Somewhere in between over
    >>> FL 030, about the time the stew was by our seat with the drink cart,
    >>> everyones ears started popping, etc., the oxygen masks dropped from the
    >>> overhead, women & girlie boys started screeming, the captain put it into
    >>> a emergencey dive to FL010, and I observed the following: the seats in
    >>> front of me were empty - the seats in front of that had a middle aged
    >>> man going out of his mind because the masks in that row hadn't dropped,
    >>> even though there was NO sign of any actual oxygen diprivation to anyone
    >>> so I stood up on my seat and reached over to poke him on his sweaty head
    >>> that there were three masks hanging in the row behind him, unused - he
    >>> didn't go around the passegeway, but rather leaped over the seat backs
    >>> to get one of the masks, totally un-needed, behind him. In the
    >>> meantime, my seat mate, and I, helped ourselves to a six pack of beer on
    >>> the cart abandented by the stew to help the other panicking passengers.
    >>> When she returned a little later, after we had reached a "safe"
    >>> altitude, she noticed the half dozen empty beer bottles, and declined
    >>> our offer to pay for our indulgance while plummenting to our
    >>> death.......... Of course we might have actually plummented to our
    >>> death, but............... Actual problem was the crew lost automatic
    >>> cabin pressure and had to resort to manual, which was a very finicky
    >>> process according to my CFI, who was then a TWA 1st officer...
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    > Great story Crash but we all have to ask....................did you
    > enjoy the beer?
    >


    Always - even Fosters!
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    They always advertise Fosters as 'The Amber Nectar' in UK and depict it as
    the favourite national beer for Australia but from what I have heard from my
    wife's family from OZ and other sources its not well liked down under.

    What does John Ward think of this brand of 'dizzy water'

    Ibby

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:ZJEPe.126707$E95.74022@fed1read01...
    > Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    >> Great story Crash but we all have to ask....................did you
    >> enjoy the beer?
    >>
    >
    >
    > Always - even Fosters!
    >
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    >
    > What does John Ward think of this brand of 'dizzy water'
    >


    I believe he says it has great medicinal properties - for soaking your
    feet...
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    John Ward wrote:
    >
    > Always look on the bright side. :-)
    >


    You're right JW.. I tell myself "things could be worse" - and sur-nuff,
    they get worse...

    (naw, just kidding - I've had a marvelous time on this planet [not perfect
    by any stretch], especially when you look at the nearly indescribable,
    horrific, alternatives I could have been born into, or just have the pure
    bad luck so many do endure, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion)
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > Thus, I watch the time to the approach waypoint with the GPS
    > and when the time nears this calculated value,

    Maybe momma will get you a Garmin GNS430 for Christmas? <g>


    Dallas
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > Sorry, but the <g> ain't doing it for me. What's the joke?

    Oh, I was referencing the 430's VNAV feature to keep you from having to
    manually make all those calculations and flash a message to you.

    The <g> was under the assumption that a 430 is a pretty expensive piece of
    gear that most GA pilots can't cost justify and wouldn't it be nice if
    someone gave one to you as a present.

    Yeah, kinda obscure humor...

    Now you're going to tell me you have one, right?

    Dallas
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In article <wqpsqjkkicpw.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
    pjricc@gmail.com says...
    > I would much prefer to hear it
    > over the headsets rather than having to acknowledge a flashing message
    > light on the GPS. For some reason the FAA didn't allow this feature when
    > they were certifying these GPS's for IFR flight.

    The FAA has some conservative ideas on what is good and what might
    overload pilots. One would think that anything that kept eyes outside
    the cockpit instead of on the instruments was good. It's particularly
    hard to understand when one can plug just about anything (CD player,
    cell phone, ...) into one's intercom panel.

    /Chris T
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    skydivers freefall with no pressurisation systems and they dont seem to be
    bothered to much,

    David


    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    > handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    True, but they dont skydive from 35000 ft where there is no/little air
    pressure

    Ibby

    "David" <drdavid32@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:430eefbf$0$5455$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
    > skydivers freefall with no pressurisation systems and they dont seem to be
    > bothered to much,
    >
    > David
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    >> handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >>
    >> Dallas
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>> In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    >>> handle in an unpressurized aircraft?

    "David" <drdavid32@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:430eefbf$0$5455$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
    >> skydivers freefall with no pressurisation systems and they dont seem to
    >> be bothered to much,

    "Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)"
    <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:demrl4$p6u$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com
    > True, but they dont skydive from 35000 ft where there is no/little air
    > pressure

    Don't forget about military HALO jumpers, they jump from FL300 with oxygen
    bottles, but I assume no pressure to the ears.

    I understand a civilian skydiver in freefall typically falls at up to 130
    MPH, which is 11,440 FPM!
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote:

    >I understand a civilian skydiver in freefall typically falls at up to 130
    >MPH, which is 11,440 FPM!
    >

    He, he - are you implying no-civilian skydivers fall at different
    speeds? ;-)

    The generally accepted average 'terminal velocity' is around 124mph or
    200 kph - so you're close.

    <http://hypertextbook.com/facts/JianHuang.shtml>

    -=tom=-
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "David"
    > >> skydivers freefall with no pressurisation systems and they dont seem to
    > >> be bothered to much,

    Good point.


    Dallas
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:

    > They always advertise Fosters as 'The Amber Nectar' in UK and depict it as
    > the favourite national beer for Australia but from what I have heard from my
    > wife's family from OZ and other sources its not well liked down under.
    >
    > What does John Ward think of this brand of 'dizzy water'
    >
    > Ibby


    Here are the commercials in the USA. Fosters, Australian for "BEER"


    http://flightsims.vze.com/adverts

    --

    boB,
    SAG 70

    U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
    Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    > Yes, it came with the airplane. You and I have had this discussion
    > before. Maybe I should change my moniker back to the original one to
    > prevent all of this identity confusion as of late. Anyway, here is a
    > picture of my V35 panel somewhere above south central Kansas, USA:
    >
    > http://thericcs.net/aviation/misc/BE35panel.JPG


    Wow! That looks as good as a real one :-)


    --
    Sincerely,
    Quilljar
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:
    >
    > Wow! That looks as good as a real one :-)

    ROFLMAO!!!

    sigh.....

    Peter,
    A discription of "very nice" would be a gross understatement!!
    Excuse me while I find a faded photo of my favorite 1967 150's panel, with
    the only extravagance being a factory POS nav/com radio...
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:26:22 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    >handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >
    >Dallas
    >
    Ears popping, and potential painful reactions in some people are just
    one reason good IRL pilots plan for a gradual descent. Another good
    reason is to prevent "shock cooling", which happens when you pull the
    throttle and dive with an air-cooled engine. The rapid cooling of the
    outer parts, heads, mainfolds, etc. can cause cracking and pre-mature
    engine failures.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > Yes, it came with the airplane. You and I have had this discussion
    before.
    > http://thericcs.net/aviation/misc/BE35panel.JPG

    I don't recall the GNS430 discussion.. and remember, I'm the guy who
    remembers the fly backflip landings.

    PS. I had the same reaction as Quilly, "Hey that's a good VC, I wonder if
    it's a Dreamfleet". :-)

    Nice cockpit. Serious question, what is that display above the 430? And
    what's the little gizmo with all the connectors that looks like an MP3
    player? .... an MP3 player?

    Even more serious question, why did Beech build that "swing arm yoke"... I
    don't get why that's of any benefit.

    Dallas
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "S Herman"
    > Another good reason is to prevent "shock cooling",

    Hey, how'd you learn so much about aviation on a tuna boat? :-)


    Dallas
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > downloaded NEXRAD
    > and other weather via WSI satellite weather.

    I learn something from this group everyday... I didn't know that
    technology was even available.

    Dallas
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In practice I have no idea :p In theory, however, your passengers should be
    able to "handle" 32 feet/ second/ second until they reach terminal velocity
    of around 10,500 feet per minute! They won't like this decent profile, but
    they could handle it at least until the ground interferes *VEG*.

    How do I know they can handle it? Think skydiving!

    Regards,
    Rand


    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    > handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Jeez, I really should read the entire thread before I post!
    Dave and some others already made the point about skydivers.

    Rand (going back into lurk mode )


    "Rand Smedley" <rand_smedley@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:4bTPe.3035$eQ.844@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
    > In practice I have no idea :p In theory, however, your passengers should
    > be able to "handle" 32 feet/ second/ second until they reach terminal
    > velocity of around 10,500 feet per minute! They won't like this decent
    > profile, but they could handle it at least until the ground interferes
    > *VEG*.
    >
    > How do I know they can handle it? Think skydiving!
    >
    > Regards,
    > Rand
    >
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    >> handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >>
    >> Dallas
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Ibby,

    Not bad, mate, if there's NOTHING else available, but Panther Piss is
    better! :-)

    Regards,
    John Ward
    "Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)"
    <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:den6lf$g0n$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    > They always advertise Fosters as 'The Amber Nectar' in UK and depict it as
    > the favourite national beer for Australia but from what I have heard from
    > my wife's family from OZ and other sources its not well liked down under.
    >
    > What does John Ward think of this brand of 'dizzy water'
    >
    > Ibby
    >
    > "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:ZJEPe.126707$E95.74022@fed1read01...
    >> Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    >>> Great story Crash but we all have to ask....................did you
    >>> enjoy the beer?
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> Always - even Fosters!
    >>
    >
    >
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Tom Orle" <xspam.torle@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:bcnug112e7hchblemmm9giea8ibcl99unj@4ax.com...
    > "Gary L." <noone@123.net> wrote:
    >
    >>I understand a civilian skydiver in freefall typically falls at up to 130
    >>MPH, which is 11,440 FPM!
    >>
    >
    > He, he - are you implying no-civilian skydivers fall at different
    > speeds? ;-)

    As a matter of fact, yes! Terminal velocity depends on wind resistance.
    Wind resistance varies by the shape a skydiver makes, so the "belly flop"
    position that most civilian skydivers use gives the most resistance, but if
    you fall feet first your more aero-dynamic shape will decrease wind
    resistance (thus increasing terminal velocity). I'm not saying military
    jumpers use this position, just that terminal velocity is affected by
    variables.

    And, at high altitudes the thin air produces less resistance, so your
    terminal velocity (in true airspeed) will be higher at higher elevations and
    slows down as you descend (but I guess in KIAS it would be the same).
    That's why I say a civilian skydiver would fall at different speed since a
    military HALO jumper would be falling through thinner air. There was even
    an Air Force Airman who was the first person to break the sound barrier
    without being inside a vehicle when he jumped from a balloon. Don't
    remember the details but he jumped from something like 60,000 or 80,000 ft.
    wearing a pressure suit.
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:GauPe.125013$E95.24770@fed1read01...
    > I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin
    the
    > blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it does.

    The pressure differences between 0 - 10k, and 10k - 30k feet aren't that
    much different considering the pressure lapse rate lessens with altitude.
    Pressure at sea level (ISA) is 1013 mb, 10k' is 700 mb and 30k' is 300 mb.
    The greatest changes in pressure for a given altitude change occur at lower
    altitudes. Which is why it's not safe to fly with blocked sinuses in an
    unpressurised ac thinking "I wont go very high anyway".

    Having said that, the risk of hypoxia and temperature effects are great at
    high altitude.

    Si
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    yeah but you are not going to be going much above 10,000 in an unpresurrised
    aircraft without O2 and jets that cruise at FL300 pressurise the cabin
    equivalent to about 8000 feet

    so when jets descend you in the cabin are really only going from about 8000
    to airfield height which is going to be a lot slower than freefall

    I made the mistake of trying to open a bottle of coke in a glider which took
    off at about 1000 feet field elevation and tried to open it at 9000 feet :)
    reminds me of watching my mates face when i put that empty bottle of coke
    that i filled with air at 30 metres under water on the back of his scuba
    tank, and as he neared the surface you can guess what the sound effects
    were like, i dont think he got that brown stain out of his wet suit :) :)

    "Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)"
    <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:demrl4$p6u$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    > True, but they dont skydive from 35000 ft where there is no/little air
    > pressure
    >
    > Ibby
    >
    > "David" <drdavid32@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:430eefbf$0$5455$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
    >> skydivers freefall with no pressurisation systems and they dont seem to
    >> be bothered to much,
    >>
    >> David
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    >> news:2IqPe.1670$Wd7.1296@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>> In practice, what's the maximum rate of descent that your passengers can
    >>> handle in an unpressurized aircraft?
    >>>
    >>> Dallas
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Varmit,

    Speaks volumes for the addon folks, I reckon, mate - I had the same
    first impression!

    Can't wait to support Bill Leaming, and get the Eaglesoft Cirrus on
    Monday.

    The only thing that bothers me about PR's cockpit is that there are so
    many switches, dials, and knobs for his wife +/or son to tangle with
    inadvertently, in such a confined space.....

    You know how it can be - wives will be wives, and kids will be kids, and
    both for so many years!!

    Having said that, I can't imagine any greater thrill, for both the Dad
    and the son, than for them to have flights together in Dad's
    plane......WOW!!!

    Combine that eventually with a camera, for the son to get familiar with,
    and we may eventually have another regular contributor to this group, if
    we're lucky!

    Regards,
    John Ward
    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:BxRPe.2607$z2.481@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Beech45Whiskey"
    >> Yes, it came with the airplane. You and I have had this discussion
    > before.
    >> http://thericcs.net/aviation/misc/BE35panel.JPG
    >
    > I don't recall the GNS430 discussion.. and remember, I'm the guy who
    > remembers the fly backflip landings.
    >
    > PS. I had the same reaction as Quilly, "Hey that's a good VC, I wonder if
    > it's a Dreamfleet". :-)
    >
    > Nice cockpit. Serious question, what is that display above the 430? And
    > what's the little gizmo with all the connectors that looks like an MP3
    > player? .... an MP3 player?
    >
    > Even more serious question, why did Beech build that "swing arm yoke"...
    > I
    > don't get why that's of any benefit.
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    >> Even more serious question, why did Beech build that "swing arm
    >> yoke"... I
    >> don't get why that's of any benefit.
    >>
    >> Dallas

    I would guess it is meant as a compromise between a yoke and stick? The lack
    of a right hand part gives a lot more room in that part of the cockpit to
    use your right arm for the knobs. Do they offer a left handed version?


    --
    Sincerely,
    Quilljar
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Actually, its what's called a "throw-over yoke".

    You can switch it between the left seat and the right seat by pivoting it
    around the tube which goes into the center of the panel...


    "Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:depfen$fkv$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    > >> Even more serious question, why did Beech build that "swing arm
    > >> yoke"... I
    > >> don't get why that's of any benefit.
    > >>
    > >> Dallas
    >
    > I would guess it is meant as a compromise between a yoke and stick? The
    lack
    > of a right hand part gives a lot more room in that part of the cockpit to
    > use your right arm for the knobs. Do they offer a left handed version?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Sincerely,
    > Quilljar
    >
    >
    >
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    And, additionally, what are the implications re such WWII radial engine
    planes as the Fw 190, and P-47 Thunderbolt?

    JW
    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:vARPe.2609$z2.1301@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "S Herman"
    >> Another good reason is to prevent "shock cooling",
    >
    > Hey, how'd you learn so much about aviation on a tuna boat? :-)
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > My children are NOT the types that adults dread to sit near on a
    commercial
    > flight or in a restaurant.

    Bless you dear Peter for not raising a set of millennium brats.

    In our day (sounding like a codger) most children sat quietly without
    bothering anybody. And, nobody had to hit us to make us behave, the parents
    just had to give you "that look".

    Today, a large percentage of American children are raised with some sort of
    relaxed discipline method as if the parents are afraid their kids won't like
    them if they are strict.

    "Stop that Derek, or I'll give you a time out."

    :-(

    [end rant mode]

    Dallas
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > XM radio and WSI are the two leading providers of satellite-sourced
    > aviation weather these days.

    We've come a long way... In the 80s my friend with the Baron used to call
    me, sometimes long distance, and ask me to turn on cable TV to give him a
    radar report. He used to bitch that the FSS operators would reply,
    "Thunderstorms?...I donno..", and he'd say to them "Why don't you guys just
    get cable TV?"

    Does on-board radar have any unique advantages over satellite-sourced
    weather or can these units replace them?

    Dallas
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey"
    > I had the composite NEXRAD site open in a browser to really grasp the
    > complete weather.

    What site is that? Is it part of WSI?

    Dallas
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Beech45Whiskey wrote:

    > Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Today, a large percentage of American children are raised with some sort of
    >>relaxed discipline method as if the parents are afraid their kids won't like
    >>them if they are strict.
    >
    >
    > Sadly, we are the strictest parents of any of our friends and relatives at
    > our age. The negotiations, repeated threats without follow-up, and blatant
    > disregard for their children's misbehaving is sickening.
    >
    > This is a sore subject with me, too, and I promise to stop now.
    >

    My long term memory seems fairly intact. Enough so that I can remember
    each of the paddles that reddened my butt in school each time I deserved
    it. I never had to get counseling because of the *abuse*. But I did
    learn to NOT do whatever it was that got me into trouble in the first
    place. I think I turned out OK. :)

    (PS. I won't go into the times my Mom corrected me)

    --

    boB,
    SAG 70

    U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
    Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "boB"
    > My long term memory seems fairly intact. Enough so that I can remember
    > each of the paddles that reddened my butt in school each time I deserved
    > it.

    Yeah, I got the paddle one time. Breathtakingly painful... and very
    effective at the point across. I can't believe they can't do that in
    today's schools.

    Dallas
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    And I would add Attention to detail, Attention to detail, Attention to
    detail. :-)

    JW
    "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1165weoajby14$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
    > John Ward <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    >
    >> The only thing that bothers me about PR's cockpit is that there are
    >> so
    >> many switches, dials, and knobs for his wife +/or son to tangle with
    >> inadvertently, in such a confined space.....
    >
    > Discipline, discipline, discipline, dear John. :)
    >
    > My children are NOT the types that adults dread to sit near on a
    > commercial
    > flight or in a restaurant.
    >
    > --
    > Peter
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
    > News==----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
    > Newsgroups
    > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
    > =----
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 04:01:31 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >
    >"S Herman"
    >> Another good reason is to prevent "shock cooling",
    >
    >Hey, how'd you learn so much about aviation on a tuna boat? :-)
    >
    >
    >Dallas
    >
    I'm a 150hr Private Pilot Single Engine Land, Instrument Student :-).
    I read a lot and BS whenever I can at the airport every chance I get!
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:09:34 +1000, "John Ward"
    <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

    >And, additionally, what are the implications re such WWII radial engine
    >planes as the Fw 190, and P-47 Thunderbolt?
    >
    >JW

    Don't know for sure, but the principle remains true.
  48. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi,

    You can definitely shock cool them. They use (among other engines) the
    R-2800 which is the same as in the DC-6. My DC-6 flight manual says not
    to reduce the MAP on descent more than 3" per minute.

    Now I assume that the WWII fighters were a lot tougher on their engines
    than that, but if you shock cool an engine really badly, you are risking
    a blown cylinder or worse.

    Hope this helps,

    Tom Gibson

    Cal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.com

    Cal Classic Alco Page: http://www.calclassic.com/alco

    Freeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.com


    John Ward wrote:
    > And, additionally, what are the implications re such WWII radial engine
    > planes as the Fw 190, and P-47 Thunderbolt?
    >
    > JW
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:vARPe.2609$z2.1301@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    >>"S Herman"
    >>
    >>>Another good reason is to prevent "shock cooling",
    >>
    >>Hey, how'd you learn so much about aviation on a tuna boat? :-)
    >>
    >>
    >>Dallas
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
  49. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:38:14 +1000, "John Ward"
    <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

    >Couldn't agree more - CRaSH is a true Classic!
    >
    >JW
    >"Arthur" <simmeronlo@rogers.com> wrote in message
    >news:N8qdnf9kzYXCC5PeRVn-oA@rogers.com...
    >> Great story, CRaSH......you slay me sometimes : )
    >>
    >> Arthur
    >>
    >> "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    >> news:GauPe.125013$E95.24770@fed1read01...
    >>> Dallas wrote:
    >>>> "GeoffC"
    >>>>> Are you talking GA or commercial, and normal or emergency ops.
    >>>>
    >>>> Normal GA ops. I was at 10k feet last night with a Cessna single in
    >>>> the mountains and the airfield was at 600 feet. I *could* get down
    >>>> pretty fast, but I could also blow out my eardrums (virtually
    >>>> speaking :-).

    Descents will definately not blow your ear drums out. In maybe, but
    not out.

    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I don't think goin down from 10K is goin to hurt anyone, without rippin
    >>> the blinkin wings off the aircraft maun, but further up (altitude) it

    In an unpressurized plane about a 1000 fpm from 10,000 is about as
    fast as you will want to descend unless everyone has very good sinuses
    that are open and free. Any congestion at all and you will be in
    pain. With plugged sinuses 3,000 feet is enough to shatter bone.

    >>> does. I was on a 727 the night Tricky Dicky resigned, leaving
    >>> Indianapolis we were on board at the gate at the terminal, the captain
    >>> put his "goodbye" speech on the intercom, the passengers applauded
    >>> afterwards, and we were off to Kansas City. Somewhere in between over FL
    >>> 030, about the time the stew was by our seat with the drink cart,
    >>> everyones ears started popping, etc., the oxygen masks dropped from the
    >>> overhead, women & girlie boys started screeming, the captain put it into
    >>> a emergencey dive to FL010, and I observed the following: the seats in
    >>> front of me were empty - the seats in front of that had a middle aged man
    >>> going out of his mind because the masks in that row hadn't dropped, even
    >>> though there was NO sign of any actual oxygen diprivation to anyone

    Most people would have been in pain at that point due to the drastic
    reduction in pressure, not from the rapid descent.
    At altitude you have about 10 to 20 seconds of consciouness with a
    complete loss of pressure without supplemental Oxygen.

    The people don't notice the lack of Oxygen. The sensitive ones notice
    the drop in pressure.

    Take a ride in the altitude chamber. They take you up, check you out
    and blow the diaphram. Then you set there talking over the intercom
    and writting your name. Nealy every one thinks they are doing one
    great job until they see what they wrote and hear how they sounded.

    In general, altitude sickness, or Oxygen depravation is like losing
    your judgemental ability or getting drunk. You lose the ability to
    recognize that there is anything wrong.

    A few people suffer side effects shuch as nausia, gas (don't eat beans
    before a chamber test<LOL>) but it's not funny as it can cause
    unbelieveable pain and the equivelant of what divers call rapture of
    the deep.

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
    >>> so I stood up on my seat and reached over to poke him on his sweaty head
    >>> that there were three masks hanging in the row behind him, unused - he
    >>> didn't go around the passegeway, but rather leaped over the seat backs to
    >>> get one of the masks, totally un-needed, behind him. In the meantime, my
    >>> seat mate, and I, helped ourselves to a six pack of beer on the cart
    >>> abandented by the stew to help the other panicking passengers. When she
    >>> returned a little later, after we had reached a "safe" altitude, she
    >>> noticed the half dozen empty beer bottles, and declined our offer to pay
    >>> for our indulgance while plummenting to our death.......... Of course we
    >>> might have actually plummented to our death, but............... Actual
    >>> problem was the crew lost automatic cabin pressure and had to resort to
    >>> manual, which was a very finicky process according to my CFI, who was
    >>> then a TWA 1st officer...
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
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