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Air crash Investigations - the show

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Anonymous
August 27, 2005 12:35:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

For those of you who have seen this, what are your thoughts?

While in general I feel there is a degree of scare mongering for ratings, ti
actually comforts me to know the lengths the investigators go to when
investigating.

In the context of the recent spate of air crashes, I think it also
highlights the need for thorough procedures and maintenance schedules which
many of these smaller airlines simply can't maintain... or don't wish to.

Several of the episodes also draw attention to the need for ongoing training
in the human element... good communication in the cockpit

thoughts?

kosh
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 12:46:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I think that kosh may be referring to "Air Emergency" or "Seconds from
Disaster", both broadcast on the National Geographic Channel is the US.
-Greg
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 7:24:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Marcel,
You are probably right. I rarely watch the Discovery Channel as it
alway seems to be showing guys building "chopper" motocycles. Frankly
those shows bore me. I'll keep an eye out for "Aircrash
Investigations" though.
-Greg
Related resources
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:39:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Often these air disasters are a chain of events where all the actions,
or lack of actions add up to catastrophe. In one of these recent shows
an aircraft engine was on fire and the cockpit crew was not aware of
it, yet the passingers and cabin crew all saw the flaming engine and
nobody told the pilot, assuming, I guess that he knew about this. The
fact that this information wasn't passed to the cockpit was a major
contributor to the crash. In this case the cabin crew and possibly
passingers were largely at fault.

-Greg
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 10:32:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I only say this because I can't 100% remember if the cabin crew saw the
flames, but I know a number of passingers looked out the window and saw
them. It's possible that the passingers assumed the cabin crew saw the
flames when they didn't because they were distracted by the emergency.
Maybe someone else who saw the show can clarify this. At any rate, it
is possible for the passingers to unwittingly be a factor in air
disasters.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 1:13:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 27 Aug 2005 08:46:38 -0700, aakermit wrote:

> I think that kosh may be referring to "Air Emergency" or "Seconds from
> Disaster", both broadcast on the National Geographic Channel is the US.

Not just in the US, Greg.
We get it in Europe too.

But I believe "Aircrash Investigations" is a show on Discovery.

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(Mmmmmm.....beer and doughnuts. - Homer Simpson)
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:52:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense shown
by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be highly
trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.

Barry
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:52:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
shown
> by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be
highly
> trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
> losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
> attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
> knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.
>
> Barry
>

actually I believe it is a National Geographic channel show, but extremely
similar to Seconds From Disaster.

I find the pilot communication the scariest part of it all. When things go
wrong mechanically, FAA seem to be very thorough... find the problem, and
make relevant changes to reflect their findings.... therfore making hte air
safer.

There have been severalincident however which could have been avoided. There
was a flight from South America to JFK Where it appeared 2 human elements
led to the crash. 1. Critical information was not passed on by the ATC about
their fuel status (they were on fumes and were being re-routedway way out
after a missed approach in bad weather), and secondly a language problem.

The pilot did not speak english and was instructing the co-pilot to pass on
messages to ACT. His frustration with this language barrier appeared to be a
contributing factor and added to an already flusterd co-pilots stress. I
believe it all caim down to the use of the phrase "We need PRIORITY"....
rather than Emergency being used....

When things break, I can deal with that.... but these sort of situations are
quite sensless.... and show the OTHER advantage of full scale simulations...
they are not just to learn to fly, but communicate!

kosh
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:52:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 05:52:02 +1000, Barry Ward wrote:

> In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense shown
> by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be highly
> trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
> losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
> attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
> knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.

Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
missing!

"A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.
The Irish pilot told investigators he thought he had been "struck by a
little bird" on takeoff in his five-seater Cessna 210.

But despite two of the three passengers being top flight engineers on their
way to fix a Boeing 767, no one noticed that half the left wing, containing
one fuel tank, was missing. The unnamed pilot was forced to make an
emergency landing at Jersey International Airport two hours later after he
finally spotted the fuel gauge plummeting towards empty."

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/11_34a/briefs/190422-1.ht...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466902/posts

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1741385,00.ht...

Bill Leaming
n4gix@comcast.net
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:32:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bill Leaming" <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1ah4op96bv54p$.1e8zj8zi3qjst$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
> missing!
>
> "A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
> five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.


Nah-- that just goes to show that these a/c are over-engineered and could
easily be trimmed down a little !! :) 

Barry
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:32:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:32:27 +1000, Barry Ward wrote:

> "Bill Leaming" <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1ah4op96bv54p$.1e8zj8zi3qjst$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
>> missing!
>>
>> "A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
>> five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.
>
> Nah-- that just goes to show that these a/c are over-engineered and could
> easily be trimmed down a little !! :) 

Well, his port fuel tank was found just past the end of the runway. I
don't understand how he could have NOT noticed that he had assymetrical
roll authority due to the missing port aileron???

What WAS he smoking? ;) 

Bill
August 28, 2005 4:32:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bill Leaming"
> What WAS he smoking? ;) 

Irish Whiskey?



Dallas
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 5:51:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in
news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au:

> In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
> shown by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed
> to be highly trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out
> of fuel as it was losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not
> realise this and did not attempt to work out where the fuel was being
> lost from even - though they knew they were losing it. Quite
> frightening really.
>
> Barry
>
>

This was Air Transat...Canada's own "Air Tran". The crew landed in the
Azore's with no power. The pilot was hailed as a hero. There is a Québec
sim site (I'll look for the site if I can and post the address) that had
this guy testing and evaluate their YUL scenery. He is somewhat of a
Québecois hero. During the interview's after, the co-pilot receive very
little praise and media attention. If you saw his face, and the
Captain's face during the press conference, it all seemed suspicious.
Some how, I think the co-pilot has something to do with it all and the
Captain, being ultimately responsible had to deal with it and land an A-
330 with no engines. This is my opinion and based on my gut (large as it
may be) feelings.

--
e v e n S k y

Athalon XP2800
1 G Ram
GeForce FX5900XT
160G H-D
80G H-D
XP, FS9
Wingman Strike force 3D
CH yoke n' pedals
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 3:31:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I appreicate my reply is a bit dated, but that fuel leak began with the
wrong part being installed.

Cheers,
John


"evenSky" <evensky1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96C096FF52463Myemailhome@216.196.97.131...
> "Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in
> news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au:
>
>> In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
>> shown by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed
>> to be highly trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out
>> of fuel as it was losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not
>> realise this and did not attempt to work out where the fuel was being
>> lost from even - though they knew they were losing it. Quite
>> frightening really.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>
> This was Air Transat...Canada's own "Air Tran". The crew landed in the
> Azore's with no power. The pilot was hailed as a hero. There is a Québec
> sim site (I'll look for the site if I can and post the address) that had
> this guy testing and evaluate their YUL scenery. He is somewhat of a
> Québecois hero. During the interview's after, the co-pilot receive very
> little praise and media attention. If you saw his face, and the
> Captain's face during the press conference, it all seemed suspicious.
> Some how, I think the co-pilot has something to do with it all and the
> Captain, being ultimately responsible had to deal with it and land an A-
> 330 with no engines. This is my opinion and based on my gut (large as it
> may be) feelings.
>
> --
> e v e n S k y
>
> Athalon XP2800
> 1 G Ram
> GeForce FX5900XT
> 160G H-D
> 80G H-D
> XP, FS9
> Wingman Strike force 3D
> CH yoke n' pedals
>
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 10:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"kosh" <spam@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:e54Re.15628$FA3.6646@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I seem to remember the origianl bolts were the wrong size (can't remember
> why) but if it was checked as per procedure (and the recommendation of the
> person who kept the parts) the window wouldn ot have blown out....

Yes that's right. The bolts that he took out (that had been in for 4 years)
were undersized by a fraction themselves. He then measured them by eye
against what he thought was the correct one (even after being told he was
wrong) and again put in an even smaller size, which just couldn't cope.

Si
!