Air crash Investigations - the show

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

For those of you who have seen this, what are your thoughts?

While in general I feel there is a degree of scare mongering for ratings, ti
actually comforts me to know the lengths the investigators go to when
investigating.

In the context of the recent spate of air crashes, I think it also
highlights the need for thorough procedures and maintenance schedules which
many of these smaller airlines simply can't maintain... or don't wish to.

Several of the episodes also draw attention to the need for ongoing training
in the human element... good communication in the cockpit

thoughts?

kosh
14 answers Last reply
More about crash investigations show
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I think that kosh may be referring to "Air Emergency" or "Seconds from
    Disaster", both broadcast on the National Geographic Channel is the US.
    -Greg
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Marcel,
    You are probably right. I rarely watch the Discovery Channel as it
    alway seems to be showing guys building "chopper" motocycles. Frankly
    those shows bore me. I'll keep an eye out for "Aircrash
    Investigations" though.
    -Greg
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Often these air disasters are a chain of events where all the actions,
    or lack of actions add up to catastrophe. In one of these recent shows
    an aircraft engine was on fire and the cockpit crew was not aware of
    it, yet the passingers and cabin crew all saw the flaming engine and
    nobody told the pilot, assuming, I guess that he knew about this. The
    fact that this information wasn't passed to the cockpit was a major
    contributor to the crash. In this case the cabin crew and possibly
    passingers were largely at fault.

    -Greg
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I only say this because I can't 100% remember if the cabin crew saw the
    flames, but I know a number of passingers looked out the window and saw
    them. It's possible that the passingers assumed the cabin crew saw the
    flames when they didn't because they were distracted by the emergency.
    Maybe someone else who saw the show can clarify this. At any rate, it
    is possible for the passingers to unwittingly be a factor in air
    disasters.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 27 Aug 2005 08:46:38 -0700, aakermit wrote:

    > I think that kosh may be referring to "Air Emergency" or "Seconds from
    > Disaster", both broadcast on the National Geographic Channel is the US.

    Not just in the US, Greg.
    We get it in Europe too.

    But I believe "Aircrash Investigations" is a show on Discovery.

    --

    Marcel (SAG-21)
    (Mmmmmm.....beer and doughnuts. - Homer Simpson)
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense shown
    by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be highly
    trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
    losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
    attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
    knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.

    Barry
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
    news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
    > In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
    shown
    > by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be
    highly
    > trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
    > losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
    > attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
    > knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.
    >
    > Barry
    >

    actually I believe it is a National Geographic channel show, but extremely
    similar to Seconds From Disaster.

    I find the pilot communication the scariest part of it all. When things go
    wrong mechanically, FAA seem to be very thorough... find the problem, and
    make relevant changes to reflect their findings.... therfore making hte air
    safer.

    There have been severalincident however which could have been avoided. There
    was a flight from South America to JFK Where it appeared 2 human elements
    led to the crash. 1. Critical information was not passed on by the ATC about
    their fuel status (they were on fumes and were being re-routedway way out
    after a missed approach in bad weather), and secondly a language problem.

    The pilot did not speak english and was instructing the co-pilot to pass on
    messages to ACT. His frustration with this language barrier appeared to be a
    contributing factor and added to an already flusterd co-pilots stress. I
    believe it all caim down to the use of the phrase "We need PRIORITY"....
    rather than Emergency being used....

    When things break, I can deal with that.... but these sort of situations are
    quite sensless.... and show the OTHER advantage of full scale simulations...
    they are not just to learn to fly, but communicate!

    kosh
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 05:52:02 +1000, Barry Ward wrote:

    > In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense shown
    > by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed to be highly
    > trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out of fuel as it was
    > losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not realise this and did not
    > attempt to work out where the fuel was being lost from even - though they
    > knew they were losing it. Quite frightening really.

    Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
    missing!

    "A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
    five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.
    The Irish pilot told investigators he thought he had been "struck by a
    little bird" on takeoff in his five-seater Cessna 210.

    But despite two of the three passengers being top flight engineers on their
    way to fix a Boeing 767, no one noticed that half the left wing, containing
    one fuel tank, was missing. The unnamed pilot was forced to make an
    emergency landing at Jersey International Airport two hours later after he
    finally spotted the fuel gauge plummeting towards empty."

    http://www.avweb.com/newswire/11_34a/briefs/190422-1.html

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466902/posts

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1741385,00.html

    Bill Leaming
    n4gix@comcast.net
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Bill Leaming" <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1ah4op96bv54p$.1e8zj8zi3qjst$.dlg@40tude.net...
    > Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
    > missing!
    >
    > "A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
    > five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.


    Nah-- that just goes to show that these a/c are over-engineered and could
    easily be trimmed down a little !! :)

    Barry
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:32:27 +1000, Barry Ward wrote:

    > "Bill Leaming" <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote in message
    > news:1ah4op96bv54p$.1e8zj8zi3qjst$.dlg@40tude.net...
    >> Here are some links about the plane which flew with half of its wing
    >> missing!
    >>
    >> "A Dozy pilot flew his plane for two hours before he noticed that
    >> five-and-a-half feet of one wing had been torn off by a tree on take-off.
    >
    > Nah-- that just goes to show that these a/c are over-engineered and could
    > easily be trimmed down a little !! :)

    Well, his port fuel tank was found just past the end of the runway. I
    don't understand how he could have NOT noticed that he had assymetrical
    roll authority due to the missing port aileron???

    What WAS he smoking? ;)

    Bill
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Bill Leaming"
    > What WAS he smoking? ;)

    Irish Whiskey?


    Dallas
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in
    news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au:

    > In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
    > shown by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed
    > to be highly trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out
    > of fuel as it was losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not
    > realise this and did not attempt to work out where the fuel was being
    > lost from even - though they knew they were losing it. Quite
    > frightening really.
    >
    > Barry
    >
    >

    This was Air Transat...Canada's own "Air Tran". The crew landed in the
    Azore's with no power. The pilot was hailed as a hero. There is a Québec
    sim site (I'll look for the site if I can and post the address) that had
    this guy testing and evaluate their YUL scenery. He is somewhat of a
    Québecois hero. During the interview's after, the co-pilot receive very
    little praise and media attention. If you saw his face, and the
    Captain's face during the press conference, it all seemed suspicious.
    Some how, I think the co-pilot has something to do with it all and the
    Captain, being ultimately responsible had to deal with it and land an A-
    330 with no engines. This is my opinion and based on my gut (large as it
    may be) feelings.

    --
    e v e n S k y

    Athalon XP2800
    1 G Ram
    GeForce FX5900XT
    160G H-D
    80G H-D
    XP, FS9
    Wingman Strike force 3D
    CH yoke n' pedals
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I appreicate my reply is a bit dated, but that fuel leak began with the
    wrong part being installed.

    Cheers,
    John


    "evenSky" <evensky1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns96C096FF52463Myemailhome@216.196.97.131...
    > "Barry Ward" <wardb3@tpg.com.au> wrote in
    > news:4310c3f8@dnews.tpgi.com.au:
    >
    >> In some of the emergencies, I am scared by the apparent lack of sense
    >> shown by the airline pilots ( bearing in mind that these are supposed
    >> to be highly trained). I remember one crash where the plane ran out
    >> of fuel as it was losing fuel from one tank and the pilots did not
    >> realise this and did not attempt to work out where the fuel was being
    >> lost from even - though they knew they were losing it. Quite
    >> frightening really.
    >>
    >> Barry
    >>
    >>
    >
    > This was Air Transat...Canada's own "Air Tran". The crew landed in the
    > Azore's with no power. The pilot was hailed as a hero. There is a Québec
    > sim site (I'll look for the site if I can and post the address) that had
    > this guy testing and evaluate their YUL scenery. He is somewhat of a
    > Québecois hero. During the interview's after, the co-pilot receive very
    > little praise and media attention. If you saw his face, and the
    > Captain's face during the press conference, it all seemed suspicious.
    > Some how, I think the co-pilot has something to do with it all and the
    > Captain, being ultimately responsible had to deal with it and land an A-
    > 330 with no engines. This is my opinion and based on my gut (large as it
    > may be) feelings.
    >
    > --
    > e v e n S k y
    >
    > Athalon XP2800
    > 1 G Ram
    > GeForce FX5900XT
    > 160G H-D
    > 80G H-D
    > XP, FS9
    > Wingman Strike force 3D
    > CH yoke n' pedals
    >
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "kosh" <spam@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
    news:e54Re.15628$FA3.6646@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
    > I seem to remember the origianl bolts were the wrong size (can't remember
    > why) but if it was checked as per procedure (and the recommendation of the
    > person who kept the parts) the window wouldn ot have blown out....

    Yes that's right. The bolts that he took out (that had been in for 4 years)
    were undersized by a fraction themselves. He then measured them by eye
    against what he thought was the correct one (even after being told he was
    wrong) and again put in an even smaller size, which just couldn't cope.

    Si
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