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Attn: Canon PIXMA & i Series Users

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Anonymous
March 20, 2005 9:25:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
(Ilford?) paper.

*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*

If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
the talk has been from non Canon users.
Anonymous
March 20, 2005 11:38:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
> (Ilford?) paper.
>
> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>
> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers
> like is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So
> far all of the talk has been from non Canon users.

I printed a few photos on some cheap photo glossy(it came with a set of inks
for Epson which i bought for a friend) and after more than 6-8 months they
are same as new. And at the time i used refill ink (local, not some widely
known one, but supposely of a good quality.
But i must admit that a photo on canon Photo Paper Pro looks WAAAY
better...but i can't judge since they are only 3-4 months old. Now i use
cheappy only for occasional prints for showing stuff at the work. I still
have original inks, but still not sure if i should refill or not...
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 12:55:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SleeperMan wrote:
> measekite wrote:
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few
>> from Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the
>> Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers
>> like is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So
>> far all of the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
> I printed a few photos on some cheap photo glossy(it came with a set
> of inks for Epson which i bought for a friend) and after more than
> 6-8 months they are same as new. And at the time i used refill ink
> (local, not some widely known one, but supposely of a good quality.
> But i must admit that a photo on canon Photo Paper Pro looks WAAAY
> better...but i can't judge since they are only 3-4 months old. Now i
> use cheappy only for occasional prints for showing stuff at the work.
> I still have original inks, but still not sure if i should refill or
> not...

forgot to tell thos old pics were made with i550...new ones with ip4000
Related resources
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 10:22:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I may not be a Canon printer owner, but I sure have seen the results of
the fading of Canon inks on Canon paper.

But, I agree, let's hear from some owners of Canon printers using Canon
inks and papers.

Art

measekite wrote:

> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
> (Ilford?) paper.
>
> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
> the talk has been from non Canon users.
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 11:30:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
> ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
> many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
> by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
> been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
> have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>
> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
> said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
> talk has been from non Canon users.

I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read studies,
and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than 5 months
old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted here many times,
also see here a Canon users real life experiences using an S9000 (same inks
as IP series) : http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...

These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but this,
and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what will happen
more slowly in normal conditions.

It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems, as
fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers have not
been around anything like that long.

This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It just
happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the market
today, and Epson the best pigment based printers. And the hard fact is that
pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing about - it's a fact.

This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated choice
in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for them. I
was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000, which I have been very happy
with overall. However as I frequently print photos from family members and
wish them to still be there for future generations, just like the photos I
am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I will eventually be buying a
pigment based printer as well.
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 11:30:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Caitlin wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
>>ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
>>many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
>>by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
>>been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
>>have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>>*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
>>said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
>>talk has been from non Canon users.
>>
>>
>
>I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read studies,
>and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than 5 months
>old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted here many times,
>also see here a Canon users real life experiences using an S9000 (same inks
>as IP series) : http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
>
>These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
>have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but this,
>and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what will happen
>more slowly in normal conditions.
>
>It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems, as
>fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers have not
>been around anything like that long.
>
>This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It just
>happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the market
>today, and Epson the best pigment based printers.
>
*Amen!*

>And the hard fact is that
>pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing about - it's a fact.
>
>
Agreed!

>This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated choice
>in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for them. I
>was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000,
>

I was. I still bought the Canon. I am hoping for 20 years worth of
prints. I can then print the ones I want to hang or look at frequently.

>which I have been very happy
>
>

Me Too.

>with overall. However as I frequently print photos from family members and
>wish them to still be there for future generations, just like the photos I
>am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I will eventually be buying a
>pigment based printer as well.
>
>

Consider spraying them with a glossy lacquer type substance that artists
use. It dulls down some of the vibrancy but pigmented prints are also
less vibrant. Save the cost of another printer and inks. Once sprayed,
the chemical elements cannot get to the ink.

>
>
>
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 11:37:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I am trying to gain information about Canon produced prints using either
Canon OEM or 3rd party Canon compatible inks used on Canon and other
brands of paper. Canon compatible inks are designed to print in Canon
printers and are claimed to be equalivent to the OEM inks. In that case
we can see if they fade as well. I am not as yet convinced weather all
of these ink paper combinations fade. That is why I ask for information
from Canon owners and users.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> I may not be a Canon printer owner, but I sure have seen the results
> of the fading of Canon inks on Canon paper.
>
> But, I agree, let's hear from some owners of Canon printers using
> Canon inks and papers.
>
> Art
>
> measekite wrote:
>
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few
>> from Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the
>> Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers
>> like is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So
>> far all of the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 4:26:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

How about laminating them ???

That makes it better or worse ?




On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:33:45 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Caitlin wrote:
>
>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>>>It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
>>>ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
>>>many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
>>>by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
>>>been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
>>>have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>>
>>>*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>>brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>>If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
>>>said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
>>>talk has been from non Canon users.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read studies,
>>and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than 5 months
>>old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted here many times,
>>also see here a Canon users real life experiences using an S9000 (same inks
>>as IP series) : http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
>>
>>These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
>>have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but this,
>>and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what will happen
>>more slowly in normal conditions.
>>
>>It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems, as
>>fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers have not
>>been around anything like that long.
>>
>>This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It just
>>happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the market
>>today, and Epson the best pigment based printers.
>>
>*Amen!*
>
>>And the hard fact is that
>>pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing about - it's a fact.
>>
>>
>Agreed!
>
>>This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated choice
>>in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for them. I
>>was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000,
>>
>
>I was. I still bought the Canon. I am hoping for 20 years worth of
>prints. I can then print the ones I want to hang or look at frequently.
>
>>which I have been very happy
>>
>>
>
>Me Too.
>
>>with overall. However as I frequently print photos from family members and
>>wish them to still be there for future generations, just like the photos I
>>am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I will eventually be buying a
>>pigment based printer as well.
>>
>>
>
>Consider spraying them with a glossy lacquer type substance that artists
>use. It dulls down some of the vibrancy but pigmented prints are also
>less vibrant. Save the cost of another printer and inks. Once sprayed,
>the chemical elements cannot get to the ink.
>
>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 4:26:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

That also would extend the life of the prints.

Digital Sheep wrote:

>How about laminating them ???
>
>That makes it better or worse ?
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:33:45 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>Caitlin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
>>>>ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
>>>>many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
>>>>by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
>>>>been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
>>>>have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>>>
>>>>*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>>>brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>>>If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
>>>>said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
>>>>talk has been from non Canon users.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read studies,
>>>and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than 5 months
>>>old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted here many times,
>>>also see here a Canon users real life experiences using an S9000 (same inks
>>>as IP series) : http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
>>>
>>>These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
>>>have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but this,
>>>and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what will happen
>>>more slowly in normal conditions.
>>>
>>>It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems, as
>>>fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers have not
>>>been around anything like that long.
>>>
>>>This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It just
>>>happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the market
>>>today, and Epson the best pigment based printers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>*Amen!*
>>
>>
>>
>>>And the hard fact is that
>>>pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing about - it's a fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Agreed!
>>
>>
>>
>>>This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated choice
>>>in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for them. I
>>>was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I was. I still bought the Canon. I am hoping for 20 years worth of
>>prints. I can then print the ones I want to hang or look at frequently.
>>
>>
>>
>>>which I have been very happy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Me Too.
>>
>>
>>
>>>with overall. However as I frequently print photos from family members and
>>>wish them to still be there for future generations, just like the photos I
>>>am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I will eventually be buying a
>>>pigment based printer as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Consider spraying them with a glossy lacquer type substance that artists
>>use. It dulls down some of the vibrancy but pigmented prints are also
>>less vibrant. Save the cost of another printer and inks. Once sprayed,
>>the chemical elements cannot get to the ink.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 8:42:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Caitlin wrote:
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most
>> of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few
>> from Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the
>> Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper. *What has been your experience with
>> faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers
>> like is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So
>> far all of the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
> I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read
> studies, and take note of other people's experiences (that are more
> than 5 months old). Apart from several test studies that have been
> posted here many times, also see here a Canon users real life
> experiences using an S9000 (same inks as IP series) :
> http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
> These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so
> undoubtedly have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable
> conditions - but this, and the accelerated deterioration studies
> simply highlight what will happen more slowly in normal conditions.
>
> It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading
> problems, as fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and
> such printers have not been around anything like that long.
>
> This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It
> just happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on
> the market today, and Epson the best pigment based printers. And the
> hard fact is that pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth
> arguing about - it's a fact.
> This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated
> choice in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue
> for them. I was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000, which I
> have been very happy with overall. However as I frequently print
> photos from family members and wish them to still be there for future
> generations, just like the photos I am currently restoring of my
> grandparents are, I will eventually be buying a pigment based printer
> as well.

All agreed, just you forgot to mention that pigment ink doesn't shine...no
matter what gloss optimizer you use, they doesn't look even similar to dye
ones...
Anonymous
March 21, 2005 10:14:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
> ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
> many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
> by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
> been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
> have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>
> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*

I have a bunch of photos that have been hanging in my office for more than a
year with no fading whatsoever. Photopaper Pro, Canon BCI6 ink on an i9100
printer.


>
> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
> said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
> talk has been from non Canon users.
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 6:18:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Keep reporting. Thanks!

PTRAVEL wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
>>ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
>>many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
>>by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
>>been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
>>have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>>*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>
>>
>
>I have a bunch of photos that have been hanging in my office for more than a
>year with no fading whatsoever. Photopaper Pro, Canon BCI6 ink on an i9100
>printer.
>
>
>
>
>>If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like is
>>said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of the
>>talk has been from non Canon users.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 9:45:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Have a Canon i560, iP3000 and S520 now and have had others in the past and
no fade issues here.
I have several photos of the grand-daughter from when she was born (she's 2
now) and look just as good as the day I printed them.



"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:3Du%d.78431$gJ3.34174@clgrps13...
>I may not be a Canon printer owner, but I sure have seen the results of the
>fading of Canon inks on Canon paper.
>
> But, I agree, let's hear from some owners of Canon printers using Canon
> inks and papers.
>
> Art
>
> measekite wrote:
>
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye based
>> ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks fade and
>> many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5 months old made
>> by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded. Most of them have
>> been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from Surething glossy. I
>> have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
>> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
>> the talk has been from non Canon users.
Anonymous
March 22, 2005 2:42:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kir%d.20671$Pz7.968@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> That also would extend the life of the prints.

You could also store them on CD and print out later at your leisure.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 12:32:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
>
> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
> (Ilford?) paper.
>
> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>
> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
> the talk has been from non Canon users.

I have just bought a Canon i9950 (i9900 with the CD printing option),
and it's too early to say whether the fading will be an issue in my
situation.

However, I have just decommissioned a 7-year-old Epson 740, the print
heads being practically stuffed. But early on, prints from that printer
faded badly, magenta disappearing in a few months even behind glass.

I have a dry-mounting press and materials left from my chemical days, so
I tried dry-mounting and texturizing some 740 prints, and those have
lasted literally years on the wall without glass and with little if any
fading. Also, the heat appeared to do nothing to the dyes.

Texturizing film acts as a sealer and UV filter on the print, but, I
have realized belatedly that the act of dry-mounting - 10 minutes at
190F - really dries out the print paper, and with the tex film on the
front and the dry-mounting tissue on the back, the print is effectively
hermetically sealed in a very dry state. I am beginning to believe that
the amount of water in the paper or the dye-holding layer plays a
definite part in accelerating the fading process.

This means that laminating or lacquer coating a print might or might not
arrest fading depending on moisture trapped in the print when laminated
or coated. Perhaps thoroughly drying the print with heat beforehand
might be a good idea.

I wonder if anyone else has tried dry-mounting, and what the results
were?

Colin
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 12:32:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Colin D" <ColinD@killspam.127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:423FE643.8AD31011@killspam.127.0.0.1...
>
>
> measekite wrote:
>>
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
>> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
>> (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
>> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
>> the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
> I have just bought a Canon i9950 (i9900 with the CD printing option),
> and it's too early to say whether the fading will be an issue in my
> situation.
>
> However, I have just decommissioned a 7-year-old Epson 740, the print
> heads being practically stuffed. But early on, prints from that printer
> faded badly, magenta disappearing in a few months even behind glass.
>
> I have a dry-mounting press and materials left from my chemical days, so
> I tried dry-mounting and texturizing some 740 prints, and those have
> lasted literally years on the wall without glass and with little if any
> fading. Also, the heat appeared to do nothing to the dyes.
>
> Texturizing film acts as a sealer and UV filter on the print, but, I
> have realized belatedly that the act of dry-mounting - 10 minutes at
> 190F - really dries out the print paper, and with the tex film on the
> front and the dry-mounting tissue on the back, the print is effectively
> hermetically sealed in a very dry state. I am beginning to believe that
> the amount of water in the paper or the dye-holding layer plays a
> definite part in accelerating the fading process.
>
> This means that laminating or lacquer coating a print might or might not
> arrest fading depending on moisture trapped in the print when laminated
> or coated. Perhaps thoroughly drying the print with heat beforehand
> might be a good idea.
>
> I wonder if anyone else has tried dry-mounting, and what the results
> were?
>
> Colin

It is certainly the case that protection from the air will have a
significant impact on dye stability - simply because any deterioration
involves a chemical reaction, and without air and moisture(or any other
external substance) to react to such reactions will be limited.

I'm not familiar with the process of dry mounting, but obviously some of the
questions would be - the impact of the board (is it acid free?), how do you
separate the image from the mounting if the mount itself deteriorates with
time? These questions are more related to archival prints that you will be
keeping for 50-100 year at which point issues of conservation will come into
play and which adhesion to other media may complicate.

There is a school of thought in my profession (film conservation) that sees
acetate film vacuum sealed before being stored at low temperature - this
thereby removing issues of humidity. However it also lessens accessibility,
ability to examine film on a regular basis, and is resource intensive.

Sealing a photo, just like framing it or putting it in an acid free album,
will see a drastic improvement in print stability. You simply need to ensure
that whatever steps you take do not rule out any future options (for
instance restoring a photo that has been laminated could prove very
difficult)
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 9:29:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have been using canon printers for the last two years (i250, i350, i865 &
mp370), and use this to produce prints from the Photo papers I sell in the
shop I run, Cartridge World (Oxford). The paper is Cartridge World's own and
is mounted within polypockets so that customers may see the quality of our
papers. In two years I have seen no fading at all.
Hope this helps.
Dave
"PC Medic" <NOT@home.net> wrote in message
news:WAT%d.3968$%d7.3890@lakeread03...
> Have a Canon i560, iP3000 and S520 now and have had others in the past and
> no fade issues here.
> I have several photos of the grand-daughter from when she was born (she's
> 2 now) and look just as good as the day I printed them.
>
>
>
> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:3Du%d.78431$gJ3.34174@clgrps13...
>>I may not be a Canon printer owner, but I sure have seen the results of
>>the fading of Canon inks on Canon paper.
>>
>> But, I agree, let's hear from some owners of Canon printers using Canon
>> inks and papers.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>>> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
>>> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
>>> (Ilford?) paper.
>>>
>>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
>>> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all of
>>> the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 3:55:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Caitlin" <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com>
wrotenews:423deb68$0$27866$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.
com.au:

>
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>> based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>> fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>> months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>> Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
>> Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
>> (Ilford?) paper.
>>
>> *What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>> brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>> If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
>> is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all
>> of the talk has been from non Canon users.
>
> I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read
> studies, and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than
> 5 months old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted
> here many times, also see here a Canon users real life experiences using
> an S9000 (same inks as IP series) :
> http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
>
> These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
> have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but
> this, and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what
> will happen more slowly in normal conditions.
>
> It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems,
> as fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers
> have not been around anything like that long.
>
> This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It
> just happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the
> market today, and Epson the best pigment based printers. And the hard
> fact is that pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing
> about - it's a fact.
>
> This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated
> choice in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for
> them. I was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000, which I have been
> very happy with overall. However as I frequently print photos from
> family members and wish them to still be there for future generations,
> just like the photos I am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I
> will eventually be buying a pigment based printer as well.
>
>
>


You can install a pigment based black cart in the iP3000 or a dye based
black one.

Wonder why you couldn't refill the carts with pigment type ink if the
nozzles seem to handle the black just as well?
--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:55:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The Print head is composed of different types of nozzles to handle the
ink that goes through them.

Mapanari wrote:

>"Caitlin" <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com>
>wrotenews:423deb68$0$27866$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.
>com.au:
>
>
>
>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:qej%d.13715$C47.5549@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>>>It has been said that Epson Pigmented inks last longer than any Dye
>>>based ink. I agree with that. They also say that Canon BCI 6? inks
>>>fade and many times fade rapidly. The prints, many of which are 5
>>>months old made by my Canon IP4000 have not appeared to have faded.
>>>Most of them have been printed on Canon Photo Paper Pro and a few from
>>>Surething glossy. I have not printed at yet with the Costco/Kirkland
>>>(Ilford?) paper.
>>>
>>>*What has been your experience with faded prints? Please state the
>>>brand/source of ink, the printer model, and the paper used.*
>>>If Canon OEM inks or Canon 3rd party inks fade with certain papers like
>>>is said all over this NG, I certainly would like to know. So far all
>>>of the talk has been from non Canon users.
>>>
>>>
>>I am a Canon IP4000 owner, and a happy one at that. However I read
>>studies, and take note of other people's experiences (that are more than
>>5 months old). Apart from several test studies that have been posted
>>here many times, also see here a Canon users real life experiences using
>>an S9000 (same inks as IP series) :
>>http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fad...
>>
>>These prints were kept in a rather 'hostile' environment, so undoubtedly
>>have suffered more than a print kept in more suitable conditions - but
>>this, and the accelerated deterioration studies simply highlight what
>>will happen more slowly in normal conditions.
>>
>>It's unrealistic to expect to find a host of users with fading problems,
>>as fading in good conditions will take 5-10+ years, and such printers
>>have not been around anything like that long.
>>
>>This is not a Canon vs. Epson issue. It's a dye vs. pigment issue. It
>>just happens that Canon make the best dye based consumer printers on the
>>market today, and Epson the best pigment based printers. And the hard
>>fact is that pigment inks last much longer. This isn't worth arguing
>>about - it's a fact.
>>
>>This fact needs to be known by users when they are making an educated
>>choice in printers, so they can decide if this is an important issue for
>>them. I was not aware of this when I bought my IP4000, which I have been
>>very happy with overall. However as I frequently print photos from
>>family members and wish them to still be there for future generations,
>>just like the photos I am currently restoring of my grandparents are, I
>>will eventually be buying a pigment based printer as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>You can install a pigment based black cart in the iP3000 or a dye based
>black one.
>
>Wonder why you couldn't refill the carts with pigment type ink if the
>nozzles seem to handle the black just as well?
>
>
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>
> You can install a pigment based black cart in the iP3000 or a dye based
> black one.
>
> Wonder why you couldn't refill the carts with pigment type ink if the
> nozzles seem to handle the black just as well?
> --
> ---Mapanari---

The above statement is incorrect. The iP3000 only has a pigmented black
BCI-3ebk and does not use a BCI-6 photo black cartridge. It only has four
tanks installed - BCI-6c/m/y and BCI-3ebk. The iP4000 has five tanks BCI-6
c/m/y/k and BCI-3ebk. You would damage the printhead by putting pigmented
black in a dye based cartridge. Putting dye based black in a pigmented
cartridge might not cause damage, but why risk it when the correct ink is
available at low cost?
--
Ron Cohen
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 10:51:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
better photos with enhanced contrast.

Ron Cohen wrote:

>>You can install a pigment based black cart in the iP3000 or a dye based
>>black one.
>>
>>Wonder why you couldn't refill the carts with pigment type ink if the
>>nozzles seem to handle the black just as well?
>>--
>>---Mapanari---
>>
>>
>
>The above statement is incorrect. The iP3000 only has a pigmented black
>BCI-3ebk and does not use a BCI-6 photo black cartridge. It only has four
>tanks installed - BCI-6c/m/y and BCI-3ebk. The iP4000 has five tanks BCI-6
>c/m/y/k and BCI-3ebk. You would damage the printhead by putting pigmented
>black in a dye based cartridge. Putting dye based black in a pigmented
>cartridge might not cause damage, but why risk it when the correct ink is
>available at low cost?
>
>
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:21:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:xS13e.5385$FN4.4093
@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

> The Print head is composed of different types of nozzles to handle the
> ink that goes through them.
>

Ok, that makes sense.


--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:26:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:fLg3e.11343$zl.7216
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

> He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
> printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
> better photos with enhanced contrast.
>
> Ron Cohen wrote:
>


The black dye ink (bci 3e bk)in the iP3000 must be used only then for text I
guess.

I just printed out a 4x color photo on my iP3000 and it's better than you can
get at Ritz Camera.

What I need now is a home kit to devlop my 35mm color film negative stock, so
I can slide scan it and do ALL my photo and printing at home now!

--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 8:59:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You've got the ink specifications confused. The BCI-3ebk is a pigment based
black. The black ink from the BCI-3 tank is used for the plain paper setting
instead of having the photo inks mixed to make a composite black. Saying it
is for exclusively for text assumes intelligence on the part of the printer
that isn't there.
--
Ron Cohen

"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962DA73E6CB74mapi@216.168.3.64...
> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:fLg3e.11343$zl.7216
> @newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
>> printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>> better photos with enhanced contrast.
>>
>> Ron Cohen wrote:
>>
>
>
> The black dye ink (bci 3e bk)in the iP3000 must be used only then for
> text I
> guess.
>
> I just printed out a 4x color photo on my iP3000 and it's better than you
> can
> get at Ritz Camera.
>
> What I need now is a home kit to devlop my 35mm color film negative stock,
> so
> I can slide scan it and do ALL my photo and printing at home now!
>
> --
> ---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 10:52:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mapanari wrote:

>measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:fLg3e.11343$zl.7216
>@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
>
>
>>He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
>>printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>>better photos with enhanced contrast.
>>
>>Ron Cohen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>The black dye ink (bci 3e bk)in the iP3000 must be used only then for text I
>guess.
>
>
bci-3eBK is pigmented ink and is used only for text.

>I just printed out a 4x color photo on my iP3000 and it's better than you can
>get at Ritz Camera.
>
>What I need now is a home kit to devlop my 35mm color film negative stock, so
>I can slide scan it and do ALL my photo and printing at home now!
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 12:06:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962DA73E6CB74mapi@216.168.3.64...
> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:fLg3e.11343$zl.7216
> @newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
>> printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>> better photos with enhanced contrast.
>>
>> Ron Cohen wrote:
>>
>
>
> The black dye ink (bci 3e bk)in the iP3000 must be used only then for
> text I
> guess.
>
> I just printed out a 4x color photo on my iP3000 and it's better than you
> can
> get at Ritz Camera.
>
> What I need now is a home kit to devlop my 35mm color film negative stock,
> so
> I can slide scan it and do ALL my photo and printing at home now!
>
> --
> ---Mapanari---

Huh? Wouldn't buying a digital camera be a little cheaper?
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 3:58:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:51:55 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>To make the black colors are mixed by the
>printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>better photos with enhanced contrast.

I missed the start of this thread (it's off my server already).
You mean you prefer the IP4000 to the 5000? or to the 3000?

My i850 has died*, at least the text output (odd...it seems like it
handles text separately from graphics??!). The printer didn't last
long, so I'm hesitant to buy another Canon. On the other hand,
I've got ink carts for it, and they'll work in some of the IPx000-
series**.

I like the larger black cartridge, given that I can use it for
emergency backup for my B&W laser. If I go with Canon again,
I'd like to get something cheap cause I'm assuming it won't last.
Is there a good reason to go with the IP4000 rather than the IP3000?

Are there comparable Epsons with better longevity, or is this
'luck of the draw'?

_R

*I thought the i850's black nozzle was clogged, but it looks like
some of the black graphics patterns display OK. My Canon scanner
died today too after very little use. Go, Canon!

**The irony is that I paid as much for the spare set of ink carts as
the current discount prices for the IP3000. May as well just toss
the printer when the ink runs out.
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 9:49:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

IP4000 vs IP3000

When printing Photos the IP4000 has an extra dye black cartridge for
increased contrast and better mileage on colors. The IP3000 has to mix
the black from CYM and as a result it uses more color ink.

IP4000 vs IP5000

If your emphasis is on photos go for the IP4000. If your emphasis is on
business printing go for the IP5000. If you are balanced you need to
decide if you want marginally better photos (IP4000) and faster speed
or significantly better text (IP5000) with slower speed. The difference
is about $40.00. Also it is unknown if the 1pl droplet size used for
text printing will have a greater tendency for print clogging.

I opted for the IP4000. The IP5000 was not out at the time. I still
would have bought the IP4000 because I want the best photos and the
fastest speed. I plan on getting the PIXMA version of the i9900 if
Canon decides to make it.

Right now I am using Canon OEM inks at $9.00 from Costco and the best
paper I have used so far is Canon Photo Paper Pro. I have purchased but
have not used Costco/Kirkland Photo Glossy Paper. Some say it may be
Ilford Gallerie.

Hope this has been helpful.

_R wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:51:55 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>To make the black colors are mixed by the
>>printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>>better photos with enhanced contrast.
>>
>>
>
>I missed the start of this thread (it's off my server already).
>You mean you prefer the IP4000 to the 5000? or to the 3000?
>
>My i850 has died*, at least the text output (odd...it seems like it
>handles text separately from graphics??!). The printer didn't last
>long, so I'm hesitant to buy another Canon. On the other hand,
>I've got ink carts for it, and they'll work in some of the IPx000-
>series**.
>
>I like the larger black cartridge, given that I can use it for
>emergency backup for my B&W laser. If I go with Canon again,
>I'd like to get something cheap cause I'm assuming it won't last.
>Is there a good reason to go with the IP4000 rather than the IP3000?
>
>Are there comparable Epsons with better longevity, or is this
>'luck of the draw'?
>
>_R
>
>*I thought the i850's black nozzle was clogged, but it looks like
>some of the black graphics patterns display OK. My Canon scanner
>died today too after very little use. Go, Canon!
>
>**The irony is that I paid as much for the spare set of ink carts as
>the current discount prices for the IP3000. May as well just toss
>the printer when the ink runs out.
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:53:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Caitlin" <caitlin_online_spamtrap@hotmail.com>
wrotenews:425068f1$0$27860$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.
com.au:

>
> "Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns962DA73E6CB74mapi@216.168.3.64...
>> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:fLg3e.11343$zl.7216
>> @newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>>> He is absolutely right. To make the black colors are mixed by the
>>> printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and
>>> produces better photos with enhanced contrast.
>>>
>>> Ron Cohen wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>> The black dye ink (bci 3e bk)in the iP3000 must be used only then for
>> text I
>> guess.
>>
>> I just printed out a 4x color photo on my iP3000 and it's better than
>> you can
>> get at Ritz Camera.
>>
>> What I need now is a home kit to devlop my 35mm color film negative
>> stock, so
>> I can slide scan it and do ALL my photo and printing at home now!
>>
>> --
>> ---Mapanari---
>
> Huh? Wouldn't buying a digital camera be a little cheaper?
>
>
>

Comparable prints:

Digital camera
vs
Minolta high end SLR with 28-50 lens/60-105 Zoom and 200-400 zoom with 34
cokin filter lens system, hotshoe flash with 30' of usable distance etc
etc.

No comparison.

When they make a digital camera in the 7 megapixal range with all the
above, and not made of cheap plastic and room for ony two AA batteries, for
the same price, then we'll talk.

My camera cost $400
Comprable digital camera cost $4,000.

Sorry, I'd rather devlop my own negatives for good photopgraphy, and keep
the digital camera for Ebay and Aunt Sally's horrible rugrats.

--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:58:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

_R <_R@nomail.org> wrotenews:3km651lv0tlt68fn35vjk3ibsqd9ouo3fh@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:51:55 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>To make the black colors are mixed by the
>>printer. That is why I went for the IP4000. It uses both and produces
>>better photos with enhanced contrast.
>
> I missed the start of this thread (it's off my server already).
> You mean you prefer the IP4000 to the 5000? or to the 3000?

Consumer reports rates the canon printers in exact disorder from their
price; the more expensive are rated least.
The iP4000 is the second highest rated printer of them all, including hp
etc.

For some reason they dint include the iP3000, but I think because it's very
simular to the 4000.



> Are there comparable Epsons with better longevity, or is this
> 'luck of the draw'?

I bought it because of Epinions.com, Amazon.com, Consumer reports, my own
experience, and a few other sources.

I bought it because I din't see that much more bang for my bucks in buying
the 4000 over the 3000.

This weekend in Texas the iP6000 was on sale for under $150. Plus there is
a worldwide Canon rebate.

>
> _R
>
> *I thought the i850's black nozzle was clogged, but it looks like
> some of the black graphics patterns display OK. My Canon scanner
> died today too after very little use. Go, Canon!

Canon has the highest rated scanner in the last C.R. issue.
>
> **The irony is that I paid as much for the spare set of ink carts as
> the current discount prices for the IP3000. May as well just toss
> the printer when the ink runs out.
>
>

Funny, I found a website that sells these carts for $4.99 each. Most
others are about $7.00.

--
---Mapanari---
!