On Anand's Conroe XE vs FX62 benchmark

sharikou

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http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/our-coverage-of-anand.html


On June 5, I published the SysMark 2004 comparison between Con E6300 and Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Many visitors from intel.com read that page. On June 6, Anand showed SysMark 2004 comparison between Conroe XE and FX62.

Some people keep quoting Anand's stuff as gospel truth. I have proven that Anand is a paid Intel pumper. So please stop quoting Anand as reliable source here, except for critical examination.

* Dempsey vs Opteron benchmark: Why did AnandTech handicap the Opteron? The responses I quoted in the comments were from Anand himself. We know now, Dempsey is no match to Opteron in 64 bit performance.
* Anand's benchmark on Yonah: X2 3800+ won by 16:6, yet Anand initially gave X2 a negative conclusion. After seeing those big Centrino ads on the same review page, it became all too clear. Anand's primary source of income is ad money.
* IDF: Was Anand duped by INTEL? Anand pushed the Intel arranged buttons, instantly wrote that "Intel Regains the Performance Crown". After the BIOS issue, Intel called Anand back and had the machine BIOS flashed and tests redone. No one else got such VIP treatment from Intel. I suggested to AMD that it should subpoena Anand for information regarding the IDF test as part of the discovery process in the anti-trust lawsuit.
* One month later, Intel quoted Anand's words and showed them to Wall Street analysts and investors. Intel market cap increased about $100 million that day. You notice that Hexus.net was also quoted by Intel (see page 51 of this Intel presentation to Wall Street).
* Today, Anand published what he claimed to be an independent Conroe benchmark, while others could only push Intel arranged buttons. How could Intel trust Anand so much more than others? Anand claimed that he gathered the Intel parts. How? The Taiwanese were suddenly not afraid of Intel any more and just gave Anand the Conroe CPU?

Let's make some quick comparisons. In this test by PCStats, an Athlon FX62 got a SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall score of 261 . In Anand Lal Shimpi's test, FX62 (2.8GHZ, 2x1MB) only got 210, Conroe XE (2.93GHZ) got 266. This result for a slower Athlon 64 X2 5000+ agreed with PCStats' results quite well. There, the X2 5000+ with a 7200RPM HD got 230 points in SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall. Look at the FX62 sub scores from PCStats, they were 263 for communications, 297 for document creation, and 214 for data analysis. However, in AnandTech's results for FX62, the sub scores were respectively 178, 280, 185.

Let's look at PCStats.com result on Business Winstone 2004, the FX62 got a score of 36.4 there. However, at AnandTech, FX62 only got 27.9, while the Conroe XE got 32.8.

Why were AnandTech's scores on FX62 substantially lower than the scores obtained by others?

Anand is not dumb. He knew that AMD64's main advantage is low memory latency due to the integrated memory controller (IMC). AMD64 doesn't need huge cache in general because it can access memory quickly. AMD estimated that IMC's low latency gave its CPUs 20% performance edge. Intel Conroe's solution is to use large cache to compensate the lack of IMC. With this knowledge, Anand decided to use high latency 5-5-5-12 DDR2 memory for his test. As a result, FX62's low latency IMC advantage was almost eliminated.

As you can see from this newegg.com memory shopping page, most DDR2-800 memory in the market today has 4-4-4-12 or lower latency. In fact, on newegg.com, out of 59 DDR2-800 memory products, only 15 models have CAS latency of 5, the other 44 products have CAS latency of 4 or lower. 4-4-4-12 memory is 25% quicker than the 5-5-5-12 used by Anand.

AnandTech's results on FX62 should therefore be considered invalid if not fraudulent. Based on AnandTech's SysMark 2004 results on Conroe XE (2.93 GHZ) and PCStats' results on Athlon 64 FX 62:

SysMark 2004 Office Overall: Conroe XE scored 266, Athlon 64 FX 62 scored 261
Business Winstone 2004: Conroe XE scored 32.8, Athlon 64 FX62 scored 36.4

This agrees with our previous findings.

Charlie at INQ commented that "t would most likely be cheaper to buy all the hardware sites out there off". I guess some company has already done that. What did Charlie know? A hardware site, a script kiddie finished reading "How to Upgrade Your PC" pushing benchmark buttons. I doubt his annual income is big. He should be cheap, as our Charlie observed.
 

306maxi

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The inquirer labelled your blog a bog and they said it stinks of AMD fanboyism. I agree. Just thought I'd bring that up.

Word

Seriously Shakira. Good for you. I hope your AMD fanboi's shower you with riches and affection. You twist everything so that it's pro-AMD/anti-Intel. The thing is that it's so obvious that anyone with half a clue who isn't in love with a particular brand notices it straight away. I would hope that you stop writing your amateur trash on your blog when Intel releases it's great range of products based on the Core architecture and they are successful. But sadly you won't. You'll probably convince your loyal readers that making a big profit is the first step to ruin for Intel.

What made me laugh most was when you posted some crap about not being able to game and play MP3's at the same time.My old 2.8C P4 Northwood with 512mb of RAM could do that quite comfortably. So what you're saying is that my old processor is better than a Conroe? Right. Funny how you also bag off a lot of benchmarks because you think that Conroe was meant to be teh 1337 benchmarking processor that doesn't actually perform well in real life. Then in 95% of your other posts you use BENCHMARKS to prove that AMD processors are better than Intel processors.

Your amateurish crap is laughable at best.

As Action Man said. If the Inquirer which is world renowned for being biased towards AMD calls your blog a "bog" I think that means something.

GO AWAY
 

djkrypplephite

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The inquirer labelled your blog a bog and they said it stinks of AMD fanboyism. I agree. Just thought I'd bring that up.

Word

Seriously Shakira. Good for you. I hope your AMD fanboi's shower you with riches and affection. You twist everything so that it's pro-AMD/anti-Intel. The thing is that it's so obvious that anyone with half a clue who isn't in love with a particular brand notices it straight away. I would hope that you stop writing your amateur trash on your blog when Intel releases it's great range of products based on the Core architecture and they are successful. But sadly you won't. You'll probably convince your loyal readers that making a big profit is the first step to ruin for Intel.

What made me laugh most was when you posted some crap about not being able to game and play MP3's at the same time.My old 2.8C P4 Northwood with 512mb of RAM could do that quite comfortably. So what you're saying is that my old processor is better than a Conroe? Right. Funny how you also bag off a lot of benchmarks because you think that Conroe was meant to be teh 1337 benchmarking processor that doesn't actually perform well in real life. Then in 95% of your other posts you use BENCHMARKS to prove that AMD processors are better than Intel processors.

Your amateurish crap is laughable at best.

As Action Man said. If the Inquirer which is world renowned for being biased towards AMD calls your blog a "bog" I think that means something.

GO AWAY

You, sir, just got owned. Seriously, I've actually been to your blog before and I was disgusted at the bias. Stop crying about losing. AMD is no longer the performance king, and if you can't live with that, then don't. Death.

And how can you say that benchmarks don't prove anything? All you AMD fanboys do is post benchmarks, nobody knows what "real-world" performance is, because in the "real world" half the people that analyze benchmarks wouldn't be able to tell the 0.000000000001 second difference in launching time for an application for an Athlon over a Pentium.

Performance only really comes in a difference at FPS levels, where you have been totally dominated. Do you honestly not believe that the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer and researcher, not to mention the largest processor maker on the planet could do this? How ignorant are you?
 

306maxi

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I noticed you said

I have proven that Anand is a paid Intel pumper.

Then you say

We have proven that Anand a paid Intel pumper here.

WTF? So do you have multiple personalities, morons working for you or what?

A little from column A. A little from column B I suspect. MMM also posts on his pog too. Maybe MMM has indesputable proof that Anand is a "pumper"

I wonder if Shakira will ever get the message that nobody that matters actually likes him or agrees with him and his opinions.
 

K8MAN

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You seriously need to get over the fact that K8 in it's current state cannot beat Conroe. Just remember AMD is working hard behind closed doors on something that will and it's not anything to be ashamed of that the K8 is finally gonna meet it's maker in it's current state. Also dont worry about AMD. They will still be on top of the world with their LV 65nm 8-way DC chips which Intel cannot touch without CSI.
 

ltcommander_data

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Thought I'd point out a few things.

After the BIOS issue, Intel called Anand back and had the machine BIOS flashed and tests redone. No one else got such VIP treatment from Intel. I suggested to AMD that it should subpoena Anand for information regarding the IDF test as part of the discovery process in the anti-trust lawsuit.
What I found interesting about the IDF results was that Intel reported the system running at DDR2 667 with 4-4-4 latencies while in fact it was running at 5-5-5 latencies. In fact, it was only when Anand went back to take a closer look that he discovered the mistake and fixed it. If I'm not mistaken, the slower latency negatively effected Conroe's results more than the older BIOS effected the FXs. I can't see how Anand's supposed "VIP treatment" is illegal and significant when all the other benchmarks run by everyone else disadvantaged Intel by having slower latencies than actually quoted. I supposed you can call this a conspiracy that Intel planned this BIOS issue all along, and have the RAM crippled as performance insurance. I'm sure the judge will have fun throwing that line of thought out of court.

4-4-4-12 memory is 25% quicker than the 5-5-5-12 used by Anand.
That is nice and all, but real world benefits are likely quite a bit lower than that. In any case, the difference in hard drive probably accounted for as much if not more of the performance difference between the PCStats results and Anandtech's results.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1959&page=13

PCStats used a Raptor while Anandtech used a Hitachi DeskStar. Certainly, the 10,000RPM hard drive used by PCStats could help explain Anandtech's slower FX62 results without resorting to conspiracy theories and allegations. It's not like faster hard drives and lower latency RAM won't benefit Conroe too.
 

9-inch

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http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/our-coverage-of-anand.html


On June 5, I published the SysMark 2004 comparison between Con E6300 and Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Many visitors from intel.com read that page. On June 6, Anand showed SysMark 2004 comparison between Conroe XE and FX62.

Some people keep quoting Anand's stuff as gospel truth. I have proven that Anand is a paid Intel pumper. So please stop quoting Anand as reliable source here, except for critical examination.

* Dempsey vs Opteron benchmark: Why did AnandTech handicap the Opteron? The responses I quoted in the comments were from Anand himself. We know now, Dempsey is no match to Opteron in 64 bit performance.
* Anand's benchmark on Yonah: X2 3800+ won by 16:6, yet Anand initially gave X2 a negative conclusion. After seeing those big Centrino ads on the same review page, it became all too clear. Anand's primary source of income is ad money.
* IDF: Was Anand duped by INTEL? Anand pushed the Intel arranged buttons, instantly wrote that "Intel Regains the Performance Crown". After the BIOS issue, Intel called Anand back and had the machine BIOS flashed and tests redone. No one else got such VIP treatment from Intel. I suggested to AMD that it should subpoena Anand for information regarding the IDF test as part of the discovery process in the anti-trust lawsuit.
* One month later, Intel quoted Anand's words and showed them to Wall Street analysts and investors. Intel market cap increased about $100 million that day. You notice that Hexus.net was also quoted by Intel (see page 51 of this Intel presentation to Wall Street).
* Today, Anand published what he claimed to be an independent Conroe benchmark, while others could only push Intel arranged buttons. How could Intel trust Anand so much more than others? Anand claimed that he gathered the Intel parts. How? The Taiwanese were suddenly not afraid of Intel any more and just gave Anand the Conroe CPU?

Let's make some quick comparisons. In this test by PCStats, an Athlon FX62 got a SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall score of 261 . In Anand Lal Shimpi's test, FX62 (2.8GHZ, 2x1MB) only got 210, Conroe XE (2.93GHZ) got 266. This result for a slower Athlon 64 X2 5000+ agreed with PCStats' results quite well. There, the X2 5000+ with a 7200RPM HD got 230 points in SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall. Look at the FX62 sub scores from PCStats, they were 263 for communications, 297 for document creation, and 214 for data analysis. However, in AnandTech's results for FX62, the sub scores were respectively 178, 280, 185.

Let's look at PCStats.com result on Business Winstone 2004, the FX62 got a score of 36.4 there. However, at AnandTech, FX62 only got 27.9, while the Conroe XE got 32.8.

Why were AnandTech's scores on FX62 substantially lower than the scores obtained by others?

Anand is not dumb. He knew that AMD64's main advantage is low memory latency due to the integrated memory controller (IMC). AMD64 doesn't need huge cache in general because it can access memory quickly. AMD estimated that IMC's low latency gave its CPUs 20% performance edge. Intel Conroe's solution is to use large cache to compensate the lack of IMC. With this knowledge, Anand decided to use high latency 5-5-5-12 DDR2 memory for his test. As a result, FX62's low latency IMC advantage was almost eliminated.

As you can see from this newegg.com memory shopping page, most DDR2-800 memory in the market today has 4-4-4-12 or lower latency. In fact, on newegg.com, out of 59 DDR2-800 memory products, only 15 models have CAS latency of 5, the other 44 products have CAS latency of 4 or lower. 4-4-4-12 memory is 25% quicker than the 5-5-5-12 used by Anand.

AnandTech's results on FX62 should therefore be considered invalid if not fraudulent. Based on AnandTech's SysMark 2004 results on Conroe XE (2.93 GHZ) and PCStats' results on Athlon 64 FX 62:

SysMark 2004 Office Overall: Conroe XE scored 266, Athlon 64 FX 62 scored 261
Business Winstone 2004: Conroe XE scored 32.8, Athlon 64 FX62 scored 36.4

This agrees with our previous findings.

Charlie at INQ commented that "t would most likely be cheaper to buy all the hardware sites out there off". I guess some company has already done that. What did Charlie know? A hardware site, a script kiddie finished reading "How to Upgrade Your PC" pushing benchmark buttons. I doubt his annual income is big. He should be cheap, as our Charlie observed.


First of all, Anand didn't make the test his self, instead, he had some guys running the benchmarks for him. I would rather have Anand to run these kind of benchmarks because Johan De Gelas is somewhat biased to intel (just judging the way he draws conclusions). Anyhow, I'm not saying that the benchmarks are faulty, all I'm saying is that the reviewer is biased just as THGs reviewers. Still woodcrest had a hard time beating a 2.6ghz Opteron (Opteron wins the SSL/encryption test and ties in MySQL) which I don't call a clean victory because it didn't sweep the floor with Opteron just the way Opteron swept the floor with existing xeons.

The other thing you mention (and I do support you here) is about the latency issue. many sites have reviewed the FX-62 with low latency DDR2-800 (cas 4-4-4-12). It's kinda strange that Anand used those crappy modules which indeed crippled the FX-62 overall performance. I suspect that he didn't had the modules on hand when he run the benchmarks but I do hope for him to do a full review of AM2 with various low-latency DDR2 modules to show how well AM2 scales (just the way he did with s939).
 

qurious69ss

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http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/our-coverage-of-anand.html


On June 5, I published the SysMark 2004 comparison between Con E6300 and Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Many visitors from intel.com read that page. On June 6, Anand showed SysMark 2004 comparison between Conroe XE and FX62.

Some people keep quoting Anand's stuff as gospel truth. I have proven that Anand is a paid Intel pumper. So please stop quoting Anand as reliable source here, except for critical examination.

* Dempsey vs Opteron benchmark: Why did AnandTech handicap the Opteron? The responses I quoted in the comments were from Anand himself. We know now, Dempsey is no match to Opteron in 64 bit performance.
* Anand's benchmark on Yonah: X2 3800+ won by 16:6, yet Anand initially gave X2 a negative conclusion. After seeing those big Centrino ads on the same review page, it became all too clear. Anand's primary source of income is ad money.
* IDF: Was Anand duped by INTEL? Anand pushed the Intel arranged buttons, instantly wrote that "Intel Regains the Performance Crown". After the BIOS issue, Intel called Anand back and had the machine BIOS flashed and tests redone. No one else got such VIP treatment from Intel. I suggested to AMD that it should subpoena Anand for information regarding the IDF test as part of the discovery process in the anti-trust lawsuit.
* One month later, Intel quoted Anand's words and showed them to Wall Street analysts and investors. Intel market cap increased about $100 million that day. You notice that Hexus.net was also quoted by Intel (see page 51 of this Intel presentation to Wall Street).
* Today, Anand published what he claimed to be an independent Conroe benchmark, while others could only push Intel arranged buttons. How could Intel trust Anand so much more than others? Anand claimed that he gathered the Intel parts. How? The Taiwanese were suddenly not afraid of Intel any more and just gave Anand the Conroe CPU?

Let's make some quick comparisons. In this test by PCStats, an Athlon FX62 got a SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall score of 261 . In Anand Lal Shimpi's test, FX62 (2.8GHZ, 2x1MB) only got 210, Conroe XE (2.93GHZ) got 266. This result for a slower Athlon 64 X2 5000+ agreed with PCStats' results quite well. There, the X2 5000+ with a 7200RPM HD got 230 points in SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall. Look at the FX62 sub scores from PCStats, they were 263 for communications, 297 for document creation, and 214 for data analysis. However, in AnandTech's results for FX62, the sub scores were respectively 178, 280, 185.

Let's look at PCStats.com result on Business Winstone 2004, the FX62 got a score of 36.4 there. However, at AnandTech, FX62 only got 27.9, while the Conroe XE got 32.8.

Why were AnandTech's scores on FX62 substantially lower than the scores obtained by others?

Anand is not dumb. He knew that AMD64's main advantage is low memory latency due to the integrated memory controller (IMC). AMD64 doesn't need huge cache in general because it can access memory quickly. AMD estimated that IMC's low latency gave its CPUs 20% performance edge. Intel Conroe's solution is to use large cache to compensate the lack of IMC. With this knowledge, Anand decided to use high latency 5-5-5-12 DDR2 memory for his test. As a result, FX62's low latency IMC advantage was almost eliminated.

As you can see from this newegg.com memory shopping page, most DDR2-800 memory in the market today has 4-4-4-12 or lower latency. In fact, on newegg.com, out of 59 DDR2-800 memory products, only 15 models have CAS latency of 5, the other 44 products have CAS latency of 4 or lower. 4-4-4-12 memory is 25% quicker than the 5-5-5-12 used by Anand.

AnandTech's results on FX62 should therefore be considered invalid if not fraudulent. Based on AnandTech's SysMark 2004 results on Conroe XE (2.93 GHZ) and PCStats' results on Athlon 64 FX 62:

SysMark 2004 Office Overall: Conroe XE scored 266, Athlon 64 FX 62 scored 261
Business Winstone 2004: Conroe XE scored 32.8, Athlon 64 FX62 scored 36.4

This agrees with our previous findings.

Charlie at INQ commented that "t would most likely be cheaper to buy all the hardware sites out there off". I guess some company has already done that. What did Charlie know? A hardware site, a script kiddie finished reading "How to Upgrade Your PC" pushing benchmark buttons. I doubt his annual income is big. He should be cheap, as our Charlie observed.


First of all, Anand didn't make the test his self, instead, he had some guys running the benchmarks for him. I would rather have Anand to run these kind of benchmarks because Johan De Gelas is somewhat biased to intel (just judging the way he draws conclusions). Anyhow, I'm not saying that the benchmarks are faulty, all I'm saying is that the reviewer is biased just as THGs reviewers.

The other thing you mention (and I do support you here) is about the latency issue. many sites have reviewed the FX-62 with low latency DDR2-800 (cas 4-4-4-12). It's kinda strange that Anand used those crappy modules which indeed crippled the FX-62 overall performance. I suspect that he didn't had the modules on hand when he run the benchmarks but I do hope for him to do a full review of AM2 with various low-latency DDR2 modules to show how well AM2 scales (just the way he did with s939).

WOW!!!! who took over 9-inch's account.....that just doesn't sound like the 9-inch I know. :D :D :D
 

jimbo99

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Some crap and a couple interesting things to note.

My thoughts are that if it wasn't for AMD we'd not have Conroe. Good for both Intel and AMD.

If Anand has such influence on the perceptions of others as he obviously does as noted in the comments made here by the original author and those posting follow-ups, it is really Anand's responsibility to not put up anything which might be misconstrued--obvious in both a negative and positive way for Intel.

If the difference is the matter of a 10k rpm hdd and the latency issue there is an issue where the full story isn't in the minds of the readers. I mean, if one shop says FX62 gets X score on this or that test and another shop says that the FX62 gets a lower score and it is due to a variable that readers might miss the in the details and draw a negative or positive conclusion, depending on who's camp your are in, something maybe small or large is awry. Better standardization needs to be done.

It is hard to justify having tons of ads on the same pages where you are doing the benchmarks for one of the products. It makes it doubly worse when another shop demonstrates that your numbers aren't exactly on the mark, and you can make more money when you show ads for the superior one.

Now, I've read Anandtech for years and of late i have stopped only because the content is missing or seriously lacking and he's been putting up some conclusions that don't meet reality. That's just me though. You judge the extensiveness and his pattern of behavior for yourself. I choose to spend my time elsewhere nowadays.
 

noblekitty

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The other thing you mention (and I do support you here) is about the latency issue. many sites have reviewed the FX-62 with low latency DDR2-800 (cas 4-4-4-12). It's kinda strange that Anand used those crappy modules which indeed crippled the FX-62 overall performance

If AM2 will only be able to compete against core 2 duo with low latency DD2, it will only make the AM2 platform even less attractive. AMD AM2 CPUs are already way overpriced compare to the up coming core 2 duo; now I have to spend even more for the memory to run it? Unless AMD is going to slash all its cpu price by 40-50%, everyone already knows which platform he or she will get in the coming months.

AM2 X2 3800+: $297@ newegg
E6600 : $316 estimate at release

E6600 > FX-60>>> X2 3800

And thanks god I don't need DDR2 800 low latency for the E6600.
 

ivan_lee05

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May 19, 2006
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http://sharikou.blogspot.com/2006/06/our-coverage-of-anand.html


On June 5, I published the SysMark 2004 comparison between Con E6300 and Athlon 64 X2 3800+. Many visitors from intel.com read that page. On June 6, Anand showed SysMark 2004 comparison between Conroe XE and FX62.

Some people keep quoting Anand's stuff as gospel truth. I have proven that Anand is a paid Intel pumper. So please stop quoting Anand as reliable source here, except for critical examination.

* Dempsey vs Opteron benchmark: Why did AnandTech handicap the Opteron? The responses I quoted in the comments were from Anand himself. We know now, Dempsey is no match to Opteron in 64 bit performance.
* Anand's benchmark on Yonah: X2 3800+ won by 16:6, yet Anand initially gave X2 a negative conclusion. After seeing those big Centrino ads on the same review page, it became all too clear. Anand's primary source of income is ad money.
* IDF: Was Anand duped by INTEL? Anand pushed the Intel arranged buttons, instantly wrote that "Intel Regains the Performance Crown". After the BIOS issue, Intel called Anand back and had the machine BIOS flashed and tests redone. No one else got such VIP treatment from Intel. I suggested to AMD that it should subpoena Anand for information regarding the IDF test as part of the discovery process in the anti-trust lawsuit.
* One month later, Intel quoted Anand's words and showed them to Wall Street analysts and investors. Intel market cap increased about $100 million that day. You notice that Hexus.net was also quoted by Intel (see page 51 of this Intel presentation to Wall Street).
* Today, Anand published what he claimed to be an independent Conroe benchmark, while others could only push Intel arranged buttons. How could Intel trust Anand so much more than others? Anand claimed that he gathered the Intel parts. How? The Taiwanese were suddenly not afraid of Intel any more and just gave Anand the Conroe CPU?

Let's make some quick comparisons. In this test by PCStats, an Athlon FX62 got a SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall score of 261 . In Anand Lal Shimpi's test, FX62 (2.8GHZ, 2x1MB) only got 210, Conroe XE (2.93GHZ) got 266. This result for a slower Athlon 64 X2 5000+ agreed with PCStats' results quite well. There, the X2 5000+ with a 7200RPM HD got 230 points in SysMark 2004 Office Productivity Overall. Look at the FX62 sub scores from PCStats, they were 263 for communications, 297 for document creation, and 214 for data analysis. However, in AnandTech's results for FX62, the sub scores were respectively 178, 280, 185.

Let's look at PCStats.com result on Business Winstone 2004, the FX62 got a score of 36.4 there. However, at AnandTech, FX62 only got 27.9, while the Conroe XE got 32.8.

Why were AnandTech's scores on FX62 substantially lower than the scores obtained by others?

Anand is not dumb. He knew that AMD64's main advantage is low memory latency due to the integrated memory controller (IMC). AMD64 doesn't need huge cache in general because it can access memory quickly. AMD estimated that IMC's low latency gave its CPUs 20% performance edge. Intel Conroe's solution is to use large cache to compensate the lack of IMC. With this knowledge, Anand decided to use high latency 5-5-5-12 DDR2 memory for his test. As a result, FX62's low latency IMC advantage was almost eliminated.

As you can see from this newegg.com memory shopping page, most DDR2-800 memory in the market today has 4-4-4-12 or lower latency. In fact, on newegg.com, out of 59 DDR2-800 memory products, only 15 models have CAS latency of 5, the other 44 products have CAS latency of 4 or lower. 4-4-4-12 memory is 25% quicker than the 5-5-5-12 used by Anand.

AnandTech's results on FX62 should therefore be considered invalid if not fraudulent. Based on AnandTech's SysMark 2004 results on Conroe XE (2.93 GHZ) and PCStats' results on Athlon 64 FX 62:

SysMark 2004 Office Overall: Conroe XE scored 266, Athlon 64 FX 62 scored 261
Business Winstone 2004: Conroe XE scored 32.8, Athlon 64 FX62 scored 36.4

This agrees with our previous findings.

Charlie at INQ commented that "t would most likely be cheaper to buy all the hardware sites out there off". I guess some company has already done that. What did Charlie know? A hardware site, a script kiddie finished reading "How to Upgrade Your PC" pushing benchmark buttons. I doubt his annual income is big. He should be cheap, as our Charlie observed.




Another Die-Hard AMD Fanboy Blog.. harharharharhar...[/b]
 

1Tanker

Splendid
Apr 28, 2006
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I wonder if Shakira will ever get the message that nobody that matters actually likes him or agrees with him and his opinions.
I think his intent is to get everyone wound up in here, hoping that, out of
disbelief for his narrow-minded posts, lots of people will visit his blog. It's the
only logical explanation. Sharikoo-"Hey, if i go into Tom's forums and act like
an idiot, then people will want to follow me back to my blog and see what
kind of FUD im spreading behind their backs".-I bet that's his logic. I know
i'm not going over there to see the BS. I made that mistake once, then i left
shaking my head. He reminds me of a cult leader. AMD fanboys better watch
out. We know where cults lead to.......Mass Suicide. 8O
 

ltcommander_data

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Dec 16, 2004
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The other thing you mention (and I do support you here) is about the latency issue. many sites have reviewed the FX-62 with low latency DDR2-800 (cas 4-4-4-12). It's kinda strange that Anand used those crappy modules which indeed crippled the FX-62 overall performance. I suspect that he didn't had the modules on hand when he run the benchmarks but I do hope for him to do a full review of AM2 with various low-latency DDR2 modules to show how well AM2 scales (just the way he did with s939).
This I'll have to agree with you. The use of DDR2 800 5-5-5 isn't preferable, but for a guy running around another city doing things out of a hotel room, I think it's understandable.

Then there's the matter of benchmarking to industry standards. I believe the JEDEC standard for DDR2 800 memory is 1.8V at 5-5-5 timings so that is precisely what Anandtech benchmarks at. Is that disadvantaging AMD? No. For one, Conroe was running on the same RAM. Secondly, this technique is what Anandtech usually does.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2725&p=2

When the Intel 965 Extreme Edition was released Anandtech benchmarked using DDR2 667 RAM at 4-4-4 timings which are the revised official JEDEC timings (originally was 5-5-5 at DDR2 667). This is when DDR2 667 was available down to 3-2-2 timings, Tech Report was benchmarking using DDR2 800, and the i975X chipset could easily support DDR2 1067. All these would have improved Intel's score, but Anandtech didn't do that. It's only fair that the same standards are upheld.

Now running at official timings may disadvantage AMD chips, but it's questionable to begin with why a company would design a processor that can only perform up to expectations under non-standard conditions. Although Netburst chipsets could support up to DDR2 1067, I'm pretty sure Intel only ever markets under DDR2 667. I guess part of that is the advantage of being the one setting most of the standards.

Anyways, I too would like an in-depth look at the effects of different types of memory on AM2. Anandtech actually already did some of that:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2741&p=3

They even have DDR2 800 at 3-3-3 timings there so it's not like they've never tested AM2 under the best possible conditions. They're just not mass market conditions. A more in-depth review going from DDR2 533 all the way to DDR2 800 and higher with timings from 3-3-3 to 5-5-5 would be nice. A comparable one for Conroe would also be very interesting. Especially a comparison between the i975 and i965 chipsets.
 

croc

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Sep 14, 2005
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When the cpu's are released, we'll see a batch of benchmarks from a number of sources.

As to reliability of source, who can say?

But you then average all the source data, make the price/performance calculation according to how fat your wallet is, and your need for how much more speed you REALLY need.

Present situation:

Q: Do I need to get anything better than I have now?
A: Not now.

Q: Do I really need Vista?
A: Not now.

Q: Do I really have 2000 AUD towards an upgrade?
A: Not now.

Problem solved. I'm patiently for

1: A compelling need to upgrade.
2: The wallet to do it with.

What I've got will last me at least another year. Maybe then I'll think about it.

So until my desktop at work is better than this one, I can be patient.
 

Ycon

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I dont understand who the heck let a braindead idiot like you into these forums?

Anyone help me with understanding that?