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Spongeless Cartridges for Canon

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Anonymous
March 23, 2005 1:37:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Has anyone any experience with them? I know they exist,
prefilled, though I've yet to see any.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 5:36:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:16:23 +0100, rusiu <rusiu@poczta.fm> wrote:

>Look here:
>http://www.tianma.net.cn/asp_en/product_new_5.asp?class...

Why is the sponge in the OEM's and other refills if the spongless
works?

Regards,

DW

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Anonymous
March 23, 2005 5:36:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"DWhitley" <dewhitleyspam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4kv241lpqhpiqi8kknhtuqu07qo0rihv3t@4ax.com...

> Why is the sponge in the OEM's and other refills if the spongless
> works?

The sponge is in the cartridge to provide back pressure, which prevents the ink
from just dribbling out. Other methods are possible, such as a spring bag or an
internal vacuum with some sort pressure relief bubbler. From the picture shown
it is hard to imagine what form of back pressure mechanism is being employed.

To be robust, a back pressure system must work with changing barometric
pressure, altitude and temperature changes and the high acceleration resulting
from being moved in the printer carriage. Having ink dribble out on customers
is generally considered a bad thing....

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 5:36:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

DWhitley wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:16:23 +0100, rusiu <rusiu@poczta.fm> wrote:
>
>
>>Look here:
>>http://www.tianma.net.cn/asp_en/product_new_5.asp?class...
>
>
> Why is the sponge in the OEM's and other refills if the spongless
> works?
>

New and novel for North America but they've been around for a while in
Asia. Don't expect Canon to copy the idea any time soon as these
cartridges contain about double the ink - no major sponge. Canon prefers
you get less, so you return for more, more often ;-).

There is only a very small sponge at the exit port and what looks like
a bit of a complicated tubing system (for pressurization?) where the full
size sponge normally sits. And they don't come with the "orange" break
off cap but a clear rectangular plastic container that the whole
cartridge sits in. There is a "rubber" pad at the bottom of this
container to seal the exit port.

I have been accidentally sent defective in-house only test samples from
"my people" - a source to be named later if I ever get good samples. I
don't want to give anyone a bad name and I don't believe they actually
have any real stock at the moment for public distribution anyway.

-Taliesyn
____________________________________________________________________
3rd party inks: print anything you can think of, with ink that costs
next to nothing, to impress people you don't like.
Anonymous
March 28, 2005 10:25:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I don't have an opinion either way as to spongeless other than it would be
more convenient since a greater quantity of ink would initially be in the
printer. Just for curiosity sake here is a link to a manufacturer making
spongeless tanks http://www.arrowinkjet.com/canonspongeless.htm I don't know
if they are available in the US or not.
--
Ron Cohen
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 1:20:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Isn't the point of the sponge to prevent the ink from sloshing from
side to side and possibly foaming?

If there isn't any sponge, will your ink foam every time the carriage
changes directions?

Just curious.

Jim



On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:37:10 -0600, John Lefevre
<JLefevre@notmydomain.net> wrote:

>Has anyone any experience with them? I know they exist,
>prefilled, though I've yet to see any.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 1:36:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

<firebirdNOSPAM@exit109..com> wrote in message
news:1leh41hc9iae2nucbbk49t5gvvg4q1p81n@4ax.com...
> Isn't the point of the sponge to prevent the ink from sloshing from
> side to side and possibly foaming?
>
> If there isn't any sponge, will your ink foam every time the carriage
> changes directions?

I would worry more about it dribbling out the nozzles. Making the ink more
viscous would be a poor solution to this problem as it would likely result in
other problems, including head clogging and poor color reproduction.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 10:16:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> If Canon cartridge had any patents there wouldn't be any 3rd party
> Canon cartridges!

At least a few thousants... There is a specific aspect about infringment of
patents. China has not any copyright or patent law, so *any* product is
reproducible...
Even the two chamber cartridge (sponge chamber and void chamber) is do
*patented*... I can't recall if epson or canon has the patent.
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 10:16:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in news:1112065927.195552@athnrd02:

>> If Canon cartridge had any patents there wouldn't be any 3rd party
>> Canon cartridges!
>
> At least a few thousants... There is a specific aspect about
> infringment of patents. China has not any copyright or patent law, so
> *any* product is reproducible...
> Even the two chamber cartridge (sponge chamber and void chamber) is do
> *patented*... I can't recall if epson or canon has the patent.
>


As far I know only cartridges with built in print heads are patented -
HP and Lexmark for example.

One website gives the following definition.

http://www.inkcityusa.com/glossary-of-terms.htm

"An aftermarket cartridge is one that is not made by the original
manufacturer but is a copy made and marketed by another company.
Aftermarket ink cartridges are cheaper, but are only available for
cartridges that do not have the printhead built into them (like many
Canon and Epson cartridges) and which are therefore not patented."
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 10:16:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"AA Battery" <OneVolt@keeps_On_Ticking.net> wrote in message
news:k9KdnVdHxcQ6UtXfRVn-1A@giganews.com...
> "Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in news:1112065927.195552@athnrd02:

>> Even the two chamber cartridge (sponge chamber and void chamber) is do
>> *patented*... I can't recall if epson or canon has the patent.

AFAIK it is an HP patent from several years ago.

> As far I know only cartridges with built in print heads are patented -
> HP and Lexmark for example.

Actually there are a number of areas that could be (and are) patented in a
separate ink and printhead design, including the method for generating back
pressure (to keep ink from dribbling out), the interconnect method to the
printhead, the actual formulations of the ink, the methods used to control
black to color bleed and maybe hundreds of others.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 10:24:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Since you claim to work for HP maybe you could shed some insight on HP
Re manufactured ink carts that 3rd party resellers are marketing. ie
Where do they all get those qualities. What do they do to re
manufacture the carts and the print head? How many times can they do
this per cart? Stuff like that.

It seems to be that the only risk in purchasing HP Remans is leakage
that could get over your printer and everything else? Thats
notwithstanding the quality of the result.

Bob Headrick wrote:

><firebirdNOSPAM@exit109..com> wrote in message
>news:1leh41hc9iae2nucbbk49t5gvvg4q1p81n@4ax.com...
>
>
>>Isn't the point of the sponge to prevent the ink from sloshing from
>>side to side and possibly foaming?
>>
>>If there isn't any sponge, will your ink foam every time the carriage
>>changes directions?
>>
>>
>
>I would worry more about it dribbling out the nozzles. Making the ink more
>viscous would be a poor solution to this problem as it would likely result in
>other problems, including head clogging and poor color reproduction.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 29, 2005 8:45:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uw62e.16503$C47.5619@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Since you claim to work for HP maybe you could shed some insight on HP

I do not claim to work for HP, I do work for HP.

> Re manufactured ink carts that 3rd party resellers are marketing. ie Where do
> they all get those qualities. What do they do to re manufacture the carts
> and the print head? How many times can they do this per cart? Stuff like
> that.

HP does not remanufacture inkjet cartridges. You need to ask these questions
of someone that does.

> It seems to be that the only risk in purchasing HP Remans is leakage that
> could get over your printer and everything else? Thats notwithstanding the
> quality of the result.

I would not say that is the only risk. Your mileage may vary. See:
http://www.hp.com/sbso/product/supplies/supplies_reliab...

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
!