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Which is better Tualatin Cele 1ghz or p3 933mhz coppermine?

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June 9, 2006 9:08:19 PM

I have a new 2nd computer i started a forum on it we'll i was looking on ebay and found a p3 933mhz for $12.45

My setup is
MB:Intel Desktop i815E
Mem:512 (2x256mb Pc133)
Hdd:WD 40GB 7200 rpm
Video:Nvidia Geforce2 GTS 32mb
case:basic black case with 250watt PSU

Now i dont know which is better the
Pentium 3 933mhz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 133mhz 1.7V
Celeron-S 1ghz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 100mhz 1.5V

I dont know which is better on this so please help me on this

Thanks Let me what you think of the matter
June 9, 2006 9:33:53 PM

Well, the P3 is better stock, but, the Celeron will probably overclock fairly well. But, probably not in that intel board since they likely have it locked down fairly well.

If you can set the fsb to 133 with that celeron, then that would be the better processor.
June 9, 2006 9:37:15 PM

Quote:
I have a new 2nd computer i started a forum on it we'll i was looking on ebay and found a p3 933mhz for $12.45

My setup is
MB:Intel Desktop i815E
Mem:512 (2x256mb Pc133)
Hdd:WD 40GB 7200 rpm
Video:Nvidia Geforce2 GTS 32mb
case:basic black case with 250watt PSU

Now i dont know which is better the
Pentium 3 933mhz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 133mhz 1.7V
Celeron-S 1ghz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 100mhz 1.5V

I dont know which is better on this so please help me on this

Thanks Let me what you think of the matter


The P3 will be a little "snappier". The celeron isn't far behind, but if you

have any intention of overclocking either one, than the celeron is the

better pick. Not knowing what kind of RAM you have, you can overclock

the celeron to (quiet possibly) 1330/133FSB or more without pushing

your RAM . You also want to make sure that the mobo is Tualatin

compatable. GL :) 
June 9, 2006 9:41:30 PM

Are you serious? Wow, haven't seen those chips in ages.
June 9, 2006 9:53:41 PM

Yes it will work with the Tualatin Core :)  also where would i get some software to OC this cpu :D  :D  :D  :D 
June 9, 2006 9:54:46 PM

If you don't plan on overclocking the P III is the best bet.
June 9, 2006 9:56:52 PM

If i could overclock the Tualatin Celeron 1ghz to 1.3 and change the FSB from 100-133 i would it but i dont know where i could get software that would do that
June 9, 2006 10:00:27 PM

You don't need software to do it. You would do it in the bios settings, but intel boards probably won't let you set the stuff up manually, so chances are slim you could actually do it.
June 9, 2006 10:01:52 PM

Quote:
If i could overclock the Tualatin Celeron 1ghz to 1.3 and change the FSB from 100-133 i would it but i dont know where i could get software that would do that
You could take a chance and pin-mod
the celeron which will trick the chipset into thinking that it's a 133 FSB
processor.
June 9, 2006 10:05:57 PM

Qestion how do you do that..lol i have been working on computers at the age 6. but i dotn know how to mod the pin if you tell me or have al ink where i can learn how to get it i would be so thank full
June 9, 2006 10:06:38 PM

Quote:
Are you serious? Wow, haven't seen those chips in ages.


And to think it's only about 6-6.5 years since those things were out
June 9, 2006 10:14:28 PM

Google "pin trick for taulatin."

I have had limited success with it, but it's worth a try, certainly. Check the bios first, but I'm nearly certain it won't allow you to adjust the fsb manually.

I've got a bunch of those cpu's, still in use. Not bad machines for being so old. My oldest is running on an old BX board that I bought brand new in 1998, and it's still in use. Course, it's overclocked, got an IDE controller, etc. But, 1.45G is plenty for a lot of stuff and it still runs AutoCAD too.
June 9, 2006 10:30:29 PM

Get the Pentium. Overclocking will be a hassle if you're not experienced
... On second thought... get them both, overclock the sh1t out of the celery and if it blows up use the other one :p 
June 9, 2006 10:36:17 PM

i tryied looking up the pin trick bt i could nto really find anthing so how would i do?


Please i would like to turn it in to a 1.2 or maybe even a 1.4
June 9, 2006 10:47:55 PM

Yeah i have both
June 9, 2006 11:11:15 PM

The Tualatin-cored Celeron is going to be faster than the Coppermine Pentium III. It has a 66Mhz raw clock speed advantage, smaller process and the same sized cache (both have 256Kb). Before someone says 133FSB is more worthwhile, it really doesn't offer any significant (or even noticeable) advantage over the 100FSB in the Celeron, the 66Mhz increase would cover that any day. Besides, you can run the RAM at PC133 speeds. Benchmark the Tualatin Celeron and you'll see what I mean, I owned one before. It'll also output less heat. The only reason they weren't popular was because Tualatin support was very restricted and in light of the Pentium 4's arrival.
June 9, 2006 11:16:15 PM

Since you have both why don't u just benchmark them both and see which one performs better for the applications that u use?
June 9, 2006 11:23:50 PM

I disagree.

Besides, he can't [likely] run anything off stock on an intel MB. All in all, the 2 processors side by side and stock speed, I'd go with the P3, and that is based on experience with many machines of that species. I may end up wrong, but....nah. :wink:
June 9, 2006 11:41:16 PM

Celeron is just a name (and one which causes any enthusiast to shudder). Just because the other is a 'Pentium' doesn't mean it is better.

Tell me, apart from the FSB, what the problem with the Celeron is in this case? It has a 66Mhz clock speed advantage, its on a newer, smaller process and has ties to the monstrously fast Pentium III-S, which still sells for a small fortune and offered performance almost considered unattainable back then.

I have used the Celeron-S (as the original poster called it), though I used to refer to it as the Celeron Tualatin when I had one and it blew away a similarly clocked Pentium III Coppermine in benchmarks (which I did do because I had to be sure). At the end of the day, it's someone else's PC, but I'm just relaying what I've seen personally; the Celeron-S is a formidable CPU and shouldn't be overlooked because of the stigma attached to a name...
June 10, 2006 12:01:34 AM

You are absolutely right and I never said that it was cel v. P3. The 2 processors are essentially the same. The cel is running on smaller geometry, but that's it. They are identical electrically, save the geometry thing, but that really doesn't count.

I have a dual P3 1.4G server. I have numerous P3 machines of different flavors. A couple P3 1G's, 3 taulatin celerons oc's to 1.45.

The difference in these particular machines [not processors] is the memory bandwidth. For those 2 machines I'd take the P3 any day of the week. If it were down to the choice of just those 2 things, 933 at 133fsb or 1g at 100 fsb, I'm taking the 933.
June 10, 2006 12:07:51 AM

Let's agree to disagree.

You can run the memory at PC133 speed with the Celeron processor, even with a 100Mhz FSB. So it will run async but that's barely an issue, not when there is 66Mhz more clock speed in it.

The only time I'd take the Pentium over the Celeron is if I was selling the machine on. It's a stupid fact but when I sell Centrino-class laptops which are fitted with Dothan Celeron Ms (90nm, 1Mb cache), I always change the Celeron M for a Pentium M (usually a Banias 130nm, 1Mb cache also) because if I sold a Celeron people would flinch away, even though the Celeron is the better CPU here (it's less power-hungry, despite lack of Speedstep).

Maybe I misread your comment and for that I apologise, but I still stand by my opinion; a Celeron-S @ 1Ghz with PC133 RAM will out-do a Pentium III CuMine @ 933Mhz with PC133 RAM.
June 10, 2006 12:10:52 AM

Quote:
Let's agree to disagree.

You can run the memory at PC133 speed with the Celeron processor, even with a 100Mhz FSB. So it will run async but that's barely an issue, not when there is 66Mhz more clock speed in it.

The only time I'd take the Pentium over the Celeron is if I was selling the machine on. It's a stupid fact but when I sell Centrino-class laptops which are fitted with Dothan Celeron Ms (90nm, 1Mb cache), I always change the Celeron M for a Pentium M (usually a Banias 130nm, 1Mb cache also) because if I sold a Celeron people would flinch away, even though the Celeron is the better CPU here (it's less power-hungry, despite lack of Speedstep).

Maybe I misread your comment and for that I apologise, but I still stand by my opinion; a Celeron-S @ 1Ghz with PC133 RAM will out-do a Pentium III CuMine @ 933Mhz with PC133 RAM.


If I'm right, you can't run the memory assync [on that motherboard]. Running memory assync in many cases, from tests I can not source so you must trust me though I wouldn't trust you :wink: , will show little to no improvement, and sometimes less performance. All in all, I'd stick with the p3, but at the end of the day...we're talking about 6 year old stuff. It really won't matter that much one way or the other, will it?

One thing I will stand by, however, is that the geometry of the processor means nothing. They are the same. Same cache, same everything, just different geometry. The cel would clock higher, but at stock speeds it's pretty much the same as the P3. So, the same clocked processor of different processes [geometries] in this case will yield the same performance results.
June 10, 2006 12:22:26 AM

I don't know about the board but the chipset can do it, my ASUS TULS2-C was happy and stable whilst doing it.

Anyway, to sum up:

Overclock the Celeron-S to a 133Mhz FSB @ 1.33Ghz (there is plenty of headroom in a Tualatin core which went up to 1.4Ghz, O/C could reach 1.6Ghz+ and, I think, there was only one rev.) and everyone is happy. You get synchronous PC133 RAM, the faster FSB and without a doubt, a significantly faster CPU than the 933Mhz PIII.

Though as Pain said, it's old equipment, the marginal differences are just that...
June 10, 2006 12:32:30 AM

Oh, yeah. If it wasn't an Intel board, it's be running overclocked on 133 fsb. The Intel MB may allow you to select the fsb manually, but I doubt it...it certainly should be checked though I agree. If it will, then all is good and go for the celeron.

That Asus board is good. The only problem with it is that it wouldn't allow a board to boot at above stock vcore. So, if you were trying to boot a cel that needed a higher core clock to run, it wouldn't adjust the vcore until after booting, so, oops...it wouldn't boot. There was a pin trick you could do to it...but, anyway....I digress. :wink:
June 10, 2006 6:33:29 AM

Quote:
Qestion how do you do that..lol i have been working on computers at the age 6. but i dotn know how to mod the pin if you tell me or have al ink where i can learn how to get it i would be so thank full
To be honest i can't remember which pin it is(been a few years),
but you have to insulate the BSEL pin. You can put a thin piece of wire
insulation on the pin, then carefully reinstall the CPU, or(this wouldn't work for me) put nail polish or white out on the pin.The third option is
final ( i did it on my celeron 800), and not wise, but you can snap the pin off. Once this is done, if it won't run @133 then the CPU is garbage. I used
to do that mod, and the voltage mods, but i can't remember where the
links are for the pinout charts. You could find a pinout chart but still need
to know which pin to mod -ie: AK 47. That is column 47 @row AK. Very much like finding a place on a map. I'm sure that Crashman will know the
pins to mod, if he catches a view of this thread, and will likely add his own
thoughts on the subject. GL
June 10, 2006 8:50:46 AM

This is both interesting and has a pinout diagram:

http://www.hta-bi.bfh.ch/~rufem1/pc/tualatin2_e.html

After looking around and doing a bit of research (the site I suggest isn't the only one I read, it's just the best of a few), it's BSEL1 you want to remove:

http://www.kilowattalley.com/easy.htm

I.e. as in, cut off or isolate pin AJ31. You might also want a voltage adjustment.

I now realize that the 133Mhz FSB is a lot more important than I remembered, so Pain is right, go with the Pentium III if you don't want the hassle of messing around. But for the record a Celeron-S @ 1.33Ghz would be much faster still.
June 10, 2006 9:05:19 AM

Quote:

After looking around and doing a bit of research (the site I suggest isn't the only one I read, it's just the best of a few), it's BSEL1 you want to remove:

http://www.kilowattalley.com/easy.htm
Nice find, i've never seen that page before. :wink: I'm almost certain that i removed BSEL0 though, but it's better to go by that site. I have
to disagree about it not being worth the trouble. It's up to the OP whether the
risks are worth it(i wouldn't advise breaking the pin, just masking it), but it will
definetely outperform the P3 by a nice margin.

EDIT. I misread what you said about running at 133. I thought you said it wasn't worth it...My apologies. :?
June 10, 2006 10:50:41 AM

Yeah, I've seen those pages before, or others like them. Now that I look at them again, I never did the convertions to use a tauly in a copermine board. I used the sloket converters to use them in slot1 boards, and I did try the pin trick on an asus board to use more than default voltage on boot, but that is what I never really had much luck with so I think I gave up on it.

If someone didn't mind spending a few bucks, you could get one of the adapter sockets from upgradeware to essentially do the convertion for you without all the wires. :) 

http://www.strattoncomputer.com/so370ad.html
June 10, 2006 7:14:14 PM

Quote:
Yeah, I've seen those pages before, or others like them. Now that I look at them again, I never did the convertions to use a tauly in a copermine board. I used the sloket converters to use them in slot1 boards, and I did try the pin trick on an asus board to use more than default voltage on boot, but that is what I never really had much luck with so I think I gave up on it.

If someone didn't mind spending a few bucks, you could get one of the adapter sockets from upgradeware to essentially do the convertion for you without all the wires. :) 

http://www.strattoncomputer.com/so370ad.html
Yes, the volt mods worked well for me, but were tedious with my big fat fingers. :wink: trying to wrap a super thin piece of wire around 2 pins
takes patience. I got a few slotket adaptors off eBay ~2 years ago at like
$10/apiece shipped. :)  They work great. I have a Tualatin adaptor ontop
of a Slot 1 adaptor. LOL. Doesn't leave a ton of room for a HS/F between
it and your RAM.
June 10, 2006 9:04:33 PM

Me too, a taul. adapter on a sloket. I also have a sloket taulatin adapter. Here recently I went ahead and bought a couple socket 370 boards to use up a few cel 1.1s I had, and they overclocked right to 1.45 without any increase in voltage. Not bad use of some old parts and they are fine for basic computer needs for what most people need from a machine. I wouldn't try to run FEAR at 60 fps or anything, but.... :wink:
June 11, 2006 6:13:34 PM

they both suck like hell :?
June 11, 2006 6:15:22 PM

Quote:
they both suck like hell :?


Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion. Idiot.
June 11, 2006 6:19:45 PM

Quote:
I have a new 2nd computer i started a forum on it we'll i was looking on ebay and found a p3 933mhz for $12.45

My setup is
MB:Intel Desktop i815E
Mem:512 (2x256mb Pc133)
Hdd:WD 40GB 7200 rpm
Video:Nvidia Geforce2 GTS 32mb
case:basic black case with 250watt PSU

Now i dont know which is better the
Pentium 3 933mhz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 133mhz 1.7V
Celeron-S 1ghz L1 32K L2 256K FSB 100mhz 1.5V

I dont know which is better on this so please help me on this

Thanks Let me what you think of the matter

I will recomend you to stay with your Celeron Tualatin. Just change the FSB to 133MHz(it is porbably jumper-controled on mainboard). and increase .05v if it is needed for stability.
Check if your RAM can support 133MHz, if not than reduce the RAM divider to 100MHz.
June 11, 2006 8:13:49 PM

I agree with you, except that he has an intel motherboard, and it likely not going to have any ability to overclock, which is basically what we've been saying. :wink:

If it does, great, that's what will be best without a doubt.
a b à CPUs
June 11, 2006 11:16:58 PM

You can do a pin mod to make the Celeron work at 133MHz FSB, or you can do that same mod on the "Lin-Lin" adapter, which has jumpers for the purpose, eliminating any "mishaps".

And by the way, the Celerons 100MHz FSB REALLY DID suck. Running the memory at 133MHz assynchronously did NOT help because the CPU could only get data at 100MHz. I did a LOT of testing with the Tualatin Celeron 1.1GHz and PIII 1000EB, the 1000EB walked all over it in memory-intensive applications like video encoding. I was making a lot of movies at the time. And the pin mod to make the 133MHz FSB is wonderfull because the CPU is both faster, and with a higher speed bus.

You hear a bunch of turdheads talking about theory, well, theory doesn't cut it when you have real-life testing for comparison.
June 12, 2006 12:12:24 AM

Well a Tualatin Celly would beat or be about the same as a Coppermine PIII clock-clock basis..and they don't generate as much heat as 180nm Coppermines .. since they are made as 130nm (All it is a chopped down Tualatin P3 with 256kbL2 instead of 512kb.. although there are 256kb Tualatins If I remember right)

Yes if you're able to get a good board.. do overclock .. I used to have the fastest possible Tualatin Celly and I was able to get 112Mhz-FSB x 13
June 12, 2006 12:39:11 AM

I'm pretty sure that coppermine P3's had 256M cache. The difference between coppermine and taulatin was only geometry.
a b à CPUs
June 12, 2006 1:21:58 AM

Hey Pain, did you know the Tualatin Celerons also had an extra cycle of latency programed for the cache? Just one more thing supporters of Tualatin Celerons tend to overlook when they talk about how fast it might be...in theory.

Yet I still found bus speed to be the most signficant factor, in my own testing.
June 12, 2006 12:20:09 PM

No, I wasn't aware of that, or if I was I've forgotten it over the years.
!