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warehouse club warning

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Anonymous
March 25, 2005 6:29:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one of
the pearl.

Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Pearl
Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.

Here's Ilford's response:

"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the Sam`s
Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media in
the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very different
for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the media
via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed over
to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards is
very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
generally. "

Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two "very
different" products.

Sigh....

More about : warehouse club warning

March 25, 2005 6:29:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:

> I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
> Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
> their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
> Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one of
> the pearl.
>
> Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
> different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Pearl
> Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
> finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
>
> Here's Ilford's response:
>
> "Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the Sam`s
> Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
> dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media in
> the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
> channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very different
> for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the media
> via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed over
> to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards is
> very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
> version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
> generally. "
>
> Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two "very
> different" products.
>
> Sigh....

Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?

Pete
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 6:37:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the

This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
example.

-Joel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free 35mm lens/digicam reviews: http://www.exc.com/photography
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 25, 2005 6:37:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
>>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
>>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
>
>
> This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
> Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
> specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
> competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
> (always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
> example.
>
> -Joel

That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a top-name designer may look
similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are differences in the material and
the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 6:53:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:

>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
>>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
>>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
>>
>>
>
>This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think)
>
Costco sells the Kirkland (store) brand. While we think it is made by
Ilford, they make no claim to that. The nice thing about Costco is that
they have a return policy unmatched by other. Sams club is Walmart. I
do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
advantage of doing business with them.

>,
>Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
>specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
>competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
>(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
>example.
>
>-Joel
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Free 35mm lens/digicam reviews: http://www.exc.com/photography
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 6:53:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The nice thing about Costco is that
> they have a return policy unmatched by other.

They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.


> Sams club is Walmart. I
> do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
> advantage of doing business with them.

You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 9:44:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Pete wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:
>
>
>
>>I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
>>Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
>>their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>>Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one of
>>the pearl.
>>
>>Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
>>different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Pearl
>>Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
>>finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
>>
>>Here's Ilford's response:
>>
>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the Sam`s
>>Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
>>dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media in
>>the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
>>channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very different
>>for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the media
>>via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed over
>>to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards is
>>very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
>>version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
>>generally. "
>>
>>Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two "very
>>different" products.
>>
>>Sigh....
>>
>>
>
>Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
>Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?
>
>

Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.

>Pete
>
>
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 9:44:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <p_Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
> based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
> Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.

Nope. The tricks aren't from Walmart. They're from the paper
manufacturer.

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
the same stuff is inside.

I don't expect to open a can of Campbell's chicken noodle soup that I
got from Sam's Club and find dog food inside. If that happens, you
can't blame Walmart.

Get off your Walmart high horse. Hey, here's a thought: go investigate
Costco's employment practices.

Be prepared for what you'll find.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 9:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
> sticker, etc.
>
> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>
> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>
> When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
> the same stuff is inside.

did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 11:02:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The nice thing about Costco is that
>>they have a return policy unmatched by other.
>
>
> They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.
>
>
>
>>Sams club is Walmart. I
>>do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
>>advantage of doing business with them.
>
>
> You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
>
Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 11:18:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In Ilfords email they said the packaging was differenrt. However, if
the name was the same or very similar I agree with you on that. Walmart
is not a very nice company to work for. I seem many reports on their
practices. Customers do save money buy there are other places to save
and shop. Just look at all of the law suits against them.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

>In article <p_Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
>>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
>>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
>>
>>
>
>Nope. The tricks aren't from Walmart. They're from the paper
>manufacturer.
>
>If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
>expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>sticker, etc.
>
>I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>
>Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>
>When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
>the same stuff is inside.
>
>I don't expect to open a can of Campbell's chicken noodle soup that I
>got from Sam's Club and find dog food inside. If that happens, you
>can't blame Walmart.
>
>Get off your Walmart high horse. Hey, here's a thought: go investigate
>Costco's employment practices.
>
>Be prepared for what you'll find.
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:18:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Marvin" <physchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:1148mae58j6cm0a@corp.supernews.com...
> Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
> >>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
> >>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
> >>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
> >
> >
> > This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
> > Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
> > specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
> > competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
> > (always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
> > example.
> >
> > -Joel
>
> That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a top-name
designer may look
> similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are differences
in the material and
> the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.

I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:18:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:
> "Marvin" <physchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
> news:1148mae58j6cm0a@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>>
>>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
>>>>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
>>>>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
>>>
>>>
>>>This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
>>>Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
>>>specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
>>>competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
>>>(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
>>>example.
>>>
>>>-Joel
>>
>>That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a top-name
>
> designer may look
>
>>similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are differences
>
> in the material and
>
>>the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.
>
>
> I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
> least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.
>
>
Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
To do less courts disappointment.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:19:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p _Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Pete wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
> >>Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
> >>their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
Photo
> >>Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one
of
> >>the pearl.
> >>
> >>Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
> >>different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
Pearl
> >>Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
> >>finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
> >>
> >>Here's Ilford's response:
> >>
> >>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the
Sam`s
> >>Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
> >>dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media
in
> >>the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
> >>channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very
different
> >>for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the
media
> >>via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed
over
> >>to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards
is
> >>very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
> >>version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
> >>generally. "
> >>
> >>Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two
"very
> >>different" products.
> >>
> >>Sigh....
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
> >Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?
> >
> >
>
> Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
> based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
> Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
>
> >Pete
> >
> >

In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT give it
a different name. That is my point.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:21:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Rm_0e.15427$C47.11129@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> In Ilfords email they said the packaging was differenrt. However, if
> the name was the same or very similar I agree with you on that. Walmart
> is not a very nice company to work for. I seem many reports on their
> practices. Customers do save money buy there are other places to save
> and shop. Just look at all of the law suits against them.
>
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> >In article <p_Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
> > measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
> >>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
> >>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Nope. The tricks aren't from Walmart. They're from the paper
> >manufacturer.
> >
> >If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
> >expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
> >sticker, etc.
> >
> >I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
> >IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
> >
> >Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
> >what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
> >
> >When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
> >the same stuff is inside.
> >
> >I don't expect to open a can of Campbell's chicken noodle soup that I
> >got from Sam's Club and find dog food inside. If that happens, you
> >can't blame Walmart.
> >
> >Get off your Walmart high horse. Hey, here's a thought: go investigate
> >Costco's employment practices.
> >
> >Be prepared for what you'll find.
> >
> >
> >

As noted in my original post, the name [all NINE WORDS in the name] were
IDENTICAL.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:27:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> >
> > If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
> > expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
> > sticker, etc.
> >
> > I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
> > IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
> >
> > Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
> > what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
> >
> > When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
> > the same stuff is inside.
>
> did the wrappers look similar,
> or were the product numbers the same?
>
> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.

The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:27:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:
>
> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
> > Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > >
> > > If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
> > > expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
> > > sticker, etc.
> > >
> > > I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
> > > IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
> > >
> > > Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
> > > what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
> > >
> > > When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
> > > the same stuff is inside.
> >
> > did the wrappers look similar,
> > or were the product numbers the same?
> >
> > many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>
> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>
> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
> drugs, I dare you...]
>
> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
> Ilford's website.
>
> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?

the same.
ask sams why they mislabeled an ilford product.
note that both are 250/260 g/m weight
sams does not define brightness.
ilford does.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:27:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:
> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>
>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
>>>expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>sticker, etc.
>>>
>>>I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>
>>>Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>
>>>When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
>>>the same stuff is inside.
>>
>>did the wrappers look similar,
>>or were the product numbers the same?
>>
>>many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>
>
> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>
> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
> drugs, I dare you...]
>
> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
> Ilford's website.
>
> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>
>
>
>
Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 12:27:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Crownfield wrote:
> SamSez wrote:
>
>>"Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>
>>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>>If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
>>>>expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>>sticker, etc.
>>>>
>>>>I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>>IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>
>>>>Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>>what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>
>>>>When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
>>>>the same stuff is inside.
>>>
>>>did the wrappers look similar,
>>>or were the product numbers the same?
>>>
>>>many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>
>>The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
>>not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>
>>I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
>>sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
>>drugs, I dare you...]
>>
>>Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
>>Ilford's website.
>>
>>As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
>>Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
>>Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>
>
> the same.
> ask sams why they mislabeled an ilford product.
> note that both are 250/260 g/m weight
> sams does not define brightness.
> ilford does.
I hate to tell you this, but Sam's doesn't make, or pack, the paper.
They specify the paper specs, and the supplier supplies them packaged as
specified, and at the agreed upon price. I seriously doubt Sam's even
examines actual shipped material to verify quality (they SHOULD).
So, who do you blame here?


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 26, 2005 1:24:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:

> SamSez wrote:
>
>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>
>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>
>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
>>>> that
>>>> the same stuff is inside.
>>>
>>>
>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>> or were the product numbers the same?
>>>
>>> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>> similar but
>> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>
>> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>> level of
>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>> prescription
>> drugs, I dare you...]
>>
>> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
>> window on
>> Ilford's website.
>>
>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>> Range Smooth
>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional
>> Inkjet
>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.
>

Considering that Walwart (Sam's) is notorious for flexing their discount
muscles with their suppliers, it seems that both could be complicit in
this deception. Walwart demands lesser quality (to force a lower price)
and Ilford complies because they're being courted by a retail discounter
with hundreds of stores full of bargain hunters and staffed by underpaid
wanks.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
March 26, 2005 2:09:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:p _Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>
>>Pete wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
>>>>Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
>>>>their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
>
> Photo
>
>>>>Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one
>
> of
>
>>>>the pearl.
>>>>
>>>>Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
>>>>different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
>
> Pearl
>
>>>>Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
>>>>finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
>>>>
>>>>Here's Ilford's response:
>>>>
>>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the
>
> Sam`s
>
>>>>Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
>>>>dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media
>
> in
>
>>>>the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
>>>>channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very
>
> different
>
>>>>for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the
>
> media
>
>>>>via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed
>
> over
>
>>>>to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards
>
> is
>
>>>>very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
>>>>version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
>>>>generally. "
>>>>
>>>>Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two
>
> "very
>
>>>>different" products.
>>>>
>>>>Sigh....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
>>>Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
>>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
>>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
>>
>>
>>>Pete
>>>
>>>
>
>
> In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT give it
> a different name. That is my point.


All merchants do that kinds of things. However, intentionally using the
same name, just different packaging, with lower quality materials, is
certainly a foul play. It's mostly Iiford's mistake (I prefer to call it
a mistake, rather than trick) by not using a different name. I doubt the
purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know any
difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
manufacturer.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 4:38:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:p _Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Pete wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
>>>>Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
>>>>their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
>>>>
>>>>
>Photo
>
>
>>>>Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one
>>>>
>>>>
>of
>
>
>>>>the pearl.
>>>>
>>>>Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
>>>>different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
>>>>
>>>>
>Pearl
>
>
>>>>Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
>>>>finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
>>>>
>>>>Here's Ilford's response:
>>>>
>>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the
>>>>
>>>>
>Sam`s
>
>
>>>>Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
>>>>dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media
>>>>
>>>>
>in
>
>
>>>>the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
>>>>channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very
>>>>
>>>>
>different
>
>
>>>>for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the
>>>>
>>>>
>media
>
>
>>>>via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed
>>>>
>>>>
>over
>
>
>>>>to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards
>>>>
>>>>
>is
>
>
>>>>very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
>>>>version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
>>>>generally. "
>>>>
>>>>Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two
>>>>
>>>>
>"very
>
>
>>>>different" products.
>>>>
>>>>Sigh....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
>>>Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
>>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
>>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Pete
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT give it
>a different name. That is my point.
>
>

In that case they misrepresented the product. Many times over a few
year period the same product changes packaging but the name is the
same. You then have a right to assume that the product is identical. I
have on many occassions see the same product on the shelf with different
packaging during the change over. Sometimes the product says it is new
and improved. Sometimes it is and other times it is just marketing
bullshit.

>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 5:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:

> SamSez wrote:
>
>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>
>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
>>>> Walmart, I
>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>
>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
>>>> that
>>>> the same stuff is inside.
>>>
>>>
>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>> or were the product numbers the same?
>>>
>>> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>> similar but
>> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>
>> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>> level of
>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>> prescription
>> drugs, I dare you...]
>>
>> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
>> window on
>> Ilford's website.
>>
>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>> Range Smooth
>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
>> Professional Inkjet
>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.


I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
sooner or later they would get caught.

>
>
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 5:50:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t231e.1676$FN4.395@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> SamSez wrote:
>
>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:p _Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>>Pete wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie
>>>>>Professional
>>>>>Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and
>>>>>through
>>>>>their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
>>>>>
>>Photo
>>
>>>>>Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and
>>>>>one
>>>>>
>>of
>>
>>>>>the pearl.
>>>>>
>>>>>Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that
>>>>>it was
>>>>>different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range
>>>>>Smooth
>>>>>
>>Pearl
>>
>>>>>Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a
>>>>>duller
>>>>>finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's Ilford's response:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed.
>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>Sam`s
>>
>>>>>Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in
>>>>>Pro
>>>>>dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the
>>>>>media
>>>>>
>>in
>>
>>>>>the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our
>>>>>dealer
>>>>>channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very
>>>>>
>>different
>>
>>>>>for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the
>>>>>
>>media
>>
>>>>>via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be
>>>>>passed
>>>>>
>>over
>>
>>>>>to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same
>>>>>standards
>>>>>
>>is
>>
>>>>>very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the
>>>>>Sam`s
>>>>>version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
>>>>>generally. "
>>>>>
>>>>>Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for
>>>>>two
>>>>>
>>"very
>>
>>>>>different" products.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sigh....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt.
>>>>Ooops...
>>>>Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
>>>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
>>>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Pete
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT
>>give it
>>a different name. That is my point.
>>
>
> In that case they misrepresented the product. Many times over a few year
> period the same product changes packaging but the name is the same. You
> then have a right to assume that the product is identical. I have on many
> occassions see the same product on the shelf with different packaging
> during the change over. Sometimes the product says it is new and
> improved. Sometimes it is and other times it is just marketing bullshit.
>

You'll find the only 'rights' you have relate to the product being as
advertised. If the paper sold as "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes" was as described *on the
pack* then there's no comeback.

The fact it's not the same paper as sold elsewhere is irrelevant.
March 26, 2005 5:50:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ivor Floppy wrote:


> You'll find the only 'rights' you have relate to the product being as
> advertised. If the paper sold as "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
> Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes" was as described *on the
> pack* then there's no comeback.
>
> The fact it's not the same paper as sold elsewhere is irrelevant.


We realise that Walwart believes this, the issue is we don't.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 5:55:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
news:cB31e.9194$9o4.523@fe03.lga...
> SamSez wrote:
> > "Marvin" <physchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
> > news:1148mae58j6cm0a@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
> >>
> >>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
> >>>>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
> >>>>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
> >>>Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
> >>>specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
> >>>competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
> >>>(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
> >>>example.
> >>>
> >>>-Joel
> >>
> >>That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a
top-name
> >
> > designer may look
> >
> >>similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are
differences
> >
> > in the material and
> >
> >>the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.
> >
> >
> > I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
> > least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.
> >
> >
> Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
> computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
> specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
> between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
> merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
> and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
> To do less courts disappointment.
>
>
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
you 'know' short of opening the package? If you bought a box of Kellogg's Corn
Flakes at a warehouse club, what would YOU expect to be inside -- seriously?
Something different than what you buy at Piggly-Wiggly? I doubt it.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:48:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
>
>
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>> SamSez wrote:
>>
>>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>>
>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
>>>>> Walmart, I
>>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>>> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
>>>>> that
>>>>> the same stuff is inside.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>>> or were the product numbers the same?
>>>>
>>>> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>>> similar but
>>> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>>
>>> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>>> level of
>>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>>> prescription
>>> drugs, I dare you...]
>>>
>>> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
>>> window on
>>> Ilford's website.
>>>
>>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>>> Range Smooth
>>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
>>> Professional Inkjet
>>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.
>
>
>
> I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
> specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
> that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
> specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
> then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
> sooner or later they would get caught.
>
>>
>>
And didn't they?
Sam's stocks thousands of items, many of which change frequently. I
doubt they examine every shipment of every product to assure that
quality hasn't been compromised. They rely on customer complaints to
catch such things.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 26, 2005 6:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
>
>
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>> SamSez wrote:
>>
>>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>>
>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
>>>>> Walmart, I
>>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>>> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
>>>>> that
>>>>> the same stuff is inside.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>>> or were the product numbers the same?
>>>>
>>>> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>>> similar but
>>> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>>
>>> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>>> level of
>>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>>> prescription
>>> drugs, I dare you...]
>>>
>>> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
>>> window on
>>> Ilford's website.
>>>
>>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>>> Range Smooth
>>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
>>> Professional Inkjet
>>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.
>
>
>
> I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
> specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
> that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
> specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
> then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
> sooner or later they would get caught.


Still Iiford should use a different name when they have that much
difference in materials. Like many mattress companies selling basically
the same mattress with different names and patterns. Ilford's liable to
make such a confusion. I seriously doubt Sams Club would care if it's
called something else as long as the big Ilford name is there. And most
people working there and shoppers don't know much about paper, unlike
us, the educated consumers.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

leo wrote:
> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> SamSez wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>>>
>>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
>>>>>> Walmart, I
>>>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>>>> what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you label them identically, the consumer has every
>>>>>> expectation that
>>>>>> the same stuff is inside.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>>>> or were the product numbers the same?
>>>>>
>>>>> many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>>>> similar but
>>>> not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.
>>>>
>>>> I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>>>> level of
>>>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>>>> prescription
>>>> drugs, I dare you...]
>>>>
>>>> Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
>>>> window on
>>>> Ilford's website.
>>>>
>>>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>>>> Range Smooth
>>>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
>>>> Professional Inkjet
>>>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
>> specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
>> that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
>> specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
>> then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
>> sooner or later they would get caught.
>
>
>
> Still Iiford should use a different name when they have that much
> difference in materials. Like many mattress companies selling basically
> the same mattress with different names and patterns. Ilford's liable to
> make such a confusion. I seriously doubt Sams Club would care if it's
> called something else as long as the big Ilford name is there. And most
> people working there and shoppers don't know much about paper, unlike
> us, the educated consumers.

Also, most customers wouldn't know the difference unless they has
purchased the product before any change.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:51:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Jer wrote:
> Ron Hvnter wrote:
>
>> SamSez wrote:
>>
>>> "Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:42447358.388A@cox.net...
>>>
>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I bvy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I bvy from from
>>>>> Walmart, I
>>>>> expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
>>>>> sticker, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
>>>>> IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
>>>>> what they vse for their dealer stvff. That's jvst plain WRONG.
>>>>>
>>>>> When yov label them identically, the consvmer has every expectation
>>>>> that
>>>>> the same stvff is inside.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> did the wrappers look similar,
>>>> or were the prodvct nvmbers the same?
>>>>
>>>> many prodvcts come in mvltiple flavors for different bvyers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
>>> similar bvt
>>> not identical, bvt as we all know, packaging is vpdated all the time.
>>>
>>> I contend that if yov are going to call it the same thing -- to that
>>> level of
>>> sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
>>> prescription
>>> drvgs, I dare yov...]
>>>
>>> Go to the Sams Clvb website -- look vp Ilford. Then open a second
>>> window on
>>> Ilford's website.
>>>
>>> As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
>>> Range Smooth
>>> Pearl Paper" and Sams Clvb only lists one "Ilford Galerie
>>> Professional Inkjet
>>> Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I svpposed to expect?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Sovnds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end vser.
>>
>
> Considering that Walwart (Sam's) is notoriovs for flexing their discovnt
> mvscles with their svppliers, it seems that both covld be complicit in
> this deception. Walwart demands lesser qvality (to force a lower price)
> and Ilford complies becavse they're being covrted by a retail discovnter
> with hvndreds of stores fvll of bargain hvnters and staffed by vnderpaid
> wanks.
>
>
I dovbt that Wal-mart was complicit in this case, and the average
Wal-mart employee gets $9.96/hovr, plvs one of the best profit sharing
plans in the bvsiness. Don't feel too sorry for them. The charges of
vnderpayment are made by labor vnions becavse Wal-Mart won't pvt vp with
their extortion.


--
Ron Hvnter rphvnter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:54:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:cB31e.9194$9o4.523@fe03.lga...
>
>>SamSez wrote:
>>
>>>"Marvin" <physchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
>>>news:1148mae58j6cm0a@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
>>>>>>dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
>>>>>>the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
>>>>>Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
>>>>>specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
>>>>>competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
>>>>>(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
>>>>>example.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Joel
>>>>
>>>>That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a
>
> top-name
>
>>>designer may look
>>>
>>>
>>>>similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are
>
> differences
>
>>>in the material and
>>>
>>>
>>>>the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.
>>>
>>>
>>>I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
>>>least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
>>computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
>>specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
>>between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
>>merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
>>and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
>>To do less courts disappointment.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
> Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
> you 'know' short of opening the package? If you bought a box of Kellogg's Corn
> Flakes at a warehouse club, what would YOU expect to be inside -- seriously?
> Something different than what you buy at Piggly-Wiggly? I doubt it.
>
>
No, I wouldn't, and neither, I suspect did Sam's. It is not practical
to open every package they receive to verify that the supplier isn't
compromising quality or quantity. That's where customer feedback comes
in. I rather suspect Sam's would take action against a supplier who
didn't supply the product as agreed.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 7:13:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> in <ip31e.9187$9o4.9074@fe03.lga> wrote:

>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The nice thing about Costco is that
>>>they have a return policy unmatched by other.
>>
>>
>> They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sams club is Walmart. I
>>>do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
>>>advantage of doing business with them.
>>
>>
>> You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
>>
>Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
>US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.

Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 7:13:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
> <rphunter@charter.net> in <ip31e.9187$9o4.9074@fe03.lga> wrote:
>
>
>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>>In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>>> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The nice thing about Costco is that
>>>>they have a return policy unmatched by other.
>>>
>>>
>>>They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sams club is Walmart. I
>>>>do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
>>>>advantage of doing business with them.
>>>
>>>
>>>You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
>>>
>>
>>Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
>>US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.
>
>
> Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
> ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
> so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.
>
>
Probably not. But then if you take a job, you have to know that
part-time and full-time don't get the same benefits. ALL companies try
to manage their benefits packages to assure that their business makes a
profit and is still around to pay their employees NEXT year.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 11:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
> In Ilfords email they said the packaging was differenrt. However,
if
> the name was the same or very similar I agree with you on that.
Walmart
> is not a very nice company to work for. I seem many reports on their

> practices. Customers do save money buy there are other places to
save
> and shop. Just look at all of the law suits against them.




Why does Microsoft get most of the attention from hackers? They're the
biggest target is why. They're no better or worse than any other
software maker. They just have more exposure. Same with Wal Mart.
How many "news exposes" have you seen on Target or Kmart? Yet if you
did, I feel pretty certain you'd find the same complaints. I know a
lot of people who work for other retail chains and Wal Mart is far
better than most as a place to work. Their legal woes get more press
because they have way more employees and way deeper pockets for the
legal leeches to dip into. Ask Food Lion or George Bush what it's like
to be attacked by "news" people with an agenda. I suggest that CNN
"documentaries" should be taken with a grain of salt. I've watched
that particular one twice and if you pay attention, you'll hear that
only a few of their disgruntled ex-employees and ex-vendors make the
accusations. Everybody else seems somewhere between ecstatic and
reasonably happy with Wal Mart and most of the accusations are flatly
denied or said to be greatly exaggerated.



> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> >In article <p_Y0e.15400$C47.12380@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
> > measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality
product
> >>based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
> >>Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from
Walmart.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Nope. The tricks aren't from Walmart. They're from the paper
> >manufacturer.
> >
> >If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
Walmart, I
> >expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
> >sticker, etc.
> >
> >I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
> >IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.
> >
> >Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as

> >what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.
> >
> >When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
that
> >the same stuff is inside.
> >
> >I don't expect to open a can of Campbell's chicken noodle soup that
I
> >got from Sam's Club and find dog food inside. If that happens, you
> >can't blame Walmart.
> >
> >Get off your Walmart high horse. Hey, here's a thought: go
investigate
> >Costco's employment practices.
> >
> >Be prepared for what you'll find.
> >
> >
> >
March 26, 2005 11:49:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Don't know about the USA but in Australia and most other civilised countries
there are laws to protect consumers from such deception. If I were you, I'd
start at the better business bureau and go from there. If you have described
the events faithfully here then Wal-Mart have engaged in deceptive and
misleading advertising. If you were in Australia, you could get some help to
expose this practice and get the companies involved into court.

Like I said at the start, the US might allow this sort of behaviour. They
allow plenty of questionable business activities that are illegal in
civalised countries. I recall a similar incident in 1968 where a bread maker
got a contract to supply sliced bread to the Australian Army at a regional
barracks. To save changing the wrapping machine and resetting it, the
American owned baker wrapped the Army's bread in a wrapper from the last run
which was for a lighter loaf.

The wrapper said one weight but the bread was actually heavier. This
encouraged the delivery driver to substitute day old returns of (light
weight) bread for the fresh army bread. The upshot was the American owned
baker claimed they could package their product anyway they wanted. Not so
said an Australian court. The baker tried to get the case moved to the US
where they claimed the practice was not illegal. It didn't work but the
moral of the story is that you might get away with substitution packing in
the Good old US of A.

God bless America,
land of the free,
home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb you off
the face of the Earth!
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 11:50:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Douglas wrote:
> Don't know about the USA but in Australia and most other civilised countries
> there are laws to protect consumers from such deception. If I were you, I'd
> start at the better business bureau and go from there. If you have described
> the events faithfully here then Wal-Mart have engaged in deceptive and
> misleading advertising. If you were in Australia, you could get some help to
> expose this practice and get the companies involved into court.
>
> Like I said at the start, the US might allow this sort of behaviour. They
> allow plenty of questionable business activities that are illegal in
> civalised countries. I recall a similar incident in 1968 where a bread maker
> got a contract to supply sliced bread to the Australian Army at a regional
> barracks. To save changing the wrapping machine and resetting it, the
> American owned baker wrapped the Army's bread in a wrapper from the last run
> which was for a lighter loaf.
>
> The wrapper said one weight but the bread was actually heavier. This
> encouraged the delivery driver to substitute day old returns of (light
> weight) bread for the fresh army bread. The upshot was the American owned
> baker claimed they could package their product anyway they wanted. Not so
> said an Australian court. The baker tried to get the case moved to the US
> where they claimed the practice was not illegal. It didn't work but the
> moral of the story is that you might get away with substitution packing in
> the Good old US of A.
>
> God bless America,
> land of the free,
> home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb you off
> the face of the Earth!
>
>
Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in some
ugly legal problems.

And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 11:50:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Douglas wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:kt31e.9189$9o4.3195@fe03.lga...
>> Douglas wrote:
>
> snipped
>
>>> God bless America,
>>> land of the free,
>>> home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb
>>> you off the face of the Earth!
>>>
>>>
>> Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
>> practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
>> would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in
>> some ugly legal problems.
>>
>> And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong here

<snip>

> stating the truth.


The formerly respectable Douglas has degenerated into a hysterical
soont. Some folks can't believe they exist without excessive amounts of
adrenaline and bile coursing through their systems, and if no
appropriate occasion arises, they will manufacture one out of whole
cloth.

Never mind embarrassing himself and all his country-mates, he's
asssuring himself of constant discomfort and early incapacitation and
demise. He should take my earlier advice: leave these groups and relax.


--
Frank ess
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 11:50:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank ess wrote:
> Douglas wrote:
>
>>"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:kt31e.9189$9o4.3195@fe03.lga...
>>
>>>Douglas wrote:
>>
>>snipped
>>
>>
>>>>God bless America,
>>>>land of the free,
>>>>home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb
>>>>you off the face of the Earth!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
>>>practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
>>>would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in
>>>some ugly legal problems.
>>>
>>>And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong here
>
>
> <snip>
>
>> stating the truth.
>
>
>
> The formerly respectable Douglas has degenerated into a hysterical
> soont. Some folks can't believe they exist without excessive amounts of
> adrenaline and bile coursing through their systems, and if no
> appropriate occasion arises, they will manufacture one out of whole
> cloth.
>
> Never mind embarrassing himself and all his country-mates, he's
> asssuring himself of constant discomfort and early incapacitation and
> demise. He should take my earlier advice: leave these groups and relax.
>
>
Well, I used to be almost as excitable, until I was diagnosed with HBP.
Perhaps he would live longer (and happier) with medication. Actually,
I suspect he is just a product of the distorted view of the US
engendered by news media both here, and in other countries.
Funny thing is, in this case, his OWN government is very much on the
side of the US.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 26, 2005 12:23:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"leo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:o S01e.4572$H06.911@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>
> I doubt the purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know
> any difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
> manufacturer.
>
Well at least one knows the difference!
March 26, 2005 12:51:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SamSez wrote:

>>Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
>>computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
>>specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
>>between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
>>merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
>>and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
>>To do less courts disappointment.

> Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
> you 'know' short of opening the package?

Out of curiosity have you looked carefully at the box for a product number you can
compare? Why a company with a known name like Ilford would allow an inferior product
to be sold with exactly the same name puzzles me somewhat. My cynical side figures
they know some people will get burned, but believe their bottom line will still
benefit from the extra sales to the budget crowd. Come to think of it, the rest of me
thinks that way nowadays, too.

I once bought 3 disposable cameras that had both the Fujifilm and Walmart brands on
the package intending to use them in an underwater camera housing that was supposed
to take Fujifilm disposables. Apparently the Walmart version was a slightly different
size, so the controls didn't quite work. I have no idea what else might have been
different, and I don't think the price was much different than any other place I
might have gone.

To their credit, Walmart refunded the price for all 3, even though I had managed a
couple of shots on one and opened all 3. Initially the manager of the camera
department said he couldn't accept them since he wouldn't be able to sell them, but
after a bit of bitching another manager told the returns desk help to step on them
and say they were broken when the customer opened them if need be. Since the counter
was under a sign that said something about 100% customer satisfaction I don't think
they had much choice about issuing a refund.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
March 26, 2005 1:05:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:

> I hate to tell you this, but Sam's doesn't make, or pack, the paper.
> They specify the paper specs, and the supplier supplies them packaged as
> specified, and at the agreed upon price. I seriously doubt Sam's even
> examines actual shipped material to verify quality (they SHOULD).
> So, who do you blame here?

Both of them. Sam's is to blame for selling a product with the same name whenthey've
specifically negotiated for a product with different specs. Ilford is to blame for
cooperating.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
March 26, 2005 1:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

leo wrote:

> I doubt the
> purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know any
> difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
> manufacturer.

You really think the purchasing agents for the world's largest retailer don't know
exactly what they're ordering in million and multi-million dollar lots?

I don't doubt for a second that most of their customers don't know the difference.

--
Steve

The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable
belief that it was intended as a statement of fact.

If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:14:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Steve wrote:
>
>
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>> I hate to tell you this, but Sam's doesn't make, or pack, the paper.
>> They specify the paper specs, and the supplier supplies them packaged
>> as specified, and at the agreed upon price. I seriously doubt Sam's
>> even examines actual shipped material to verify quality (they SHOULD).
>> So, who do you blame here?
>
>
> Both of them. Sam's is to blame for selling a product with the same name
> whenthey've specifically negotiated for a product with different specs.
> Ilford is to blame for cooperating.
>
Do you KNOW that they negotiated a different spec under the same
packaging? If so, please present that information to the FTC.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 2:17:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Steve wrote:
>
>
> leo wrote:
>
>> I doubt the
>> purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know any
>> difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
>> manufacturer.
>
>
> You really think the purchasing agents for the world's largest retailer
> don't know exactly what they're ordering in million and multi-million
> dollar lots?
>
> I don't doubt for a second that most of their customers don't know the
> difference.
>
I am sure they know what they ordered. Now knowing what they GOT is
another matter entirely. NO company has the personnel to inspect every
shipment of a product for quality, and suppliers KNOW that.
Example. I buy 'jumbo' eggs, because they are a better value, but in
almost EVERY PACK, I find at least one egg that is noticeably smaller
than all the others. So who is doing this? The store, other customers,
the packager?



--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 4:43:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:56:38 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> in <rla1e.14026$9m4.7961@fe07.lga> wrote:

>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
>> <rphunter@charter.net> in <ip31e.9187$9o4.9074@fe03.lga> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>>>> measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The nice thing about Costco is that
>>>>>they have a return policy unmatched by other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sams club is Walmart. I
>>>>>do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
>>>>>advantage of doing business with them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
>>>US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.
>>
>>
>> Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
>> ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
>> so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.
>>
>>
>Probably not. But then if you take a job, you have to know that
>part-time and full-time don't get the same benefits. ALL companies try
>to manage their benefits packages to assure that their business makes a
>profit and is still around to pay their employees NEXT year.

Actually that is a bit deceptive. Quite a few companies do (or did at
least) try to ensure that their employees were around next year and
healthy and doing pretty well. Walmart certainly sells us the idea
that they treat their employees really well. But having policies that
ensure that they don't get health care is not treating them well. The
stockholders of a company are not the only stakeholders in that
company


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 4:43:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:56:38 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
> <rphunter@charter.net> in <rla1e.14026$9m4.7961@fe07.lga> wrote:
>
>
>>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
>>><rphunter@charter.net> in <ip31e.9187$9o4.9074@fe03.lga> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <cuW0e.1557$FN4.1490@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>>>>>measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The nice thing about Costco is that
>>>>>>they have a return policy unmatched by other.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sams club is Walmart. I
>>>>>>do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
>>>>>>advantage of doing business with them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
>>>>US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
>>>ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
>>>so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Probably not. But then if you take a job, you have to know that
>>part-time and full-time don't get the same benefits. ALL companies try
>>to manage their benefits packages to assure that their business makes a
>>profit and is still around to pay their employees NEXT year.
>
>
> Actually that is a bit deceptive. Quite a few companies do (or did at
> least) try to ensure that their employees were around next year and
> healthy and doing pretty well. Walmart certainly sells us the idea
> that they treat their employees really well. But having policies that
> ensure that they don't get health care is not treating them well. The
> stockholders of a company are not the only stakeholders in that
> company
>
>
I am sorry, but I can't see any reason to expect ANY company to provide
healthcare for its employees. In point of fact, MOST small companies
CAN'T if they hope to remain in business. It is pretty generous for any
company to provide healthcare for ANY of their employees. I am glad
they DO, but I can't see how this is any basic right.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
March 26, 2005 6:06:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nt41e.15568$C47.15311@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> New Zealand has better lamb chops!
>
Yeah... At least they had the good sense to ban the bloody minded yanks from
bringing their Nuked ships of death into the country.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Douglas wrote:
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:nt41e.15568$C47.15311@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>New Zealand has better lamb chops!
>>
>
> Yeah... At least they had the good sense to ban the bloody minded yanks from
> bringing their Nuked ships of death into the country.
>
>
Douglas,
Please keep your anti-American trash in appropriate newsgroups.
You are getting annoying.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:11:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message news:lja1e.14025> No, I
wouldn't, and neither, I suspect did Sam's. It is not practical
> to open every package they receive to verify that the supplier isn't
> compromising quality or quantity. That's where customer feedback comes in. I
> rather suspect Sam's would take action against a supplier who didn't supply
> the product as agreed.
> --
> Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net

There was a documentary on CNN (I believe) recently that explored how Wal-Mart
conducts business with its suppliers. After watching that I can tell you that
it is almost a certainty that Ilford solicited Wal-Mart to sell their product
and offered a wholesale price for doing so after which Wal-Mart
"counter-offered" with "We will be glad to sell your product. Here is the
wholesale price that you _will_ sell it to us for."

This non-negotiable price that Wal-Mart specifies in a very high percentage of
cases forces the supplier to cut costs somewhere to make any profit at all and I
suspect that this is what Ilford did. I agree that a change in the
name/packaging would have been a better service to the final consumer.
Anonymous
March 26, 2005 6:11:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Rick Brandt wrote:
> "Ron Hunter" <rphunter@charter.net> wrote in message news:lja1e.14025> No, I
> wouldn't, and neither, I suspect did Sam's. It is not practical
>
>>to open every package they receive to verify that the supplier isn't
>>compromising quality or quantity. That's where customer feedback comes in. I
>>rather suspect Sam's would take action against a supplier who didn't supply
>>the product as agreed.
>>--
>>Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
>
>
> There was a documentary on CNN (I believe) recently that explored how Wal-Mart
> conducts business with its suppliers. After watching that I can tell you that
> it is almost a certainty that Ilford solicited Wal-Mart to sell their product
> and offered a wholesale price for doing so after which Wal-Mart
> "counter-offered" with "We will be glad to sell your product. Here is the
> wholesale price that you _will_ sell it to us for."
>
> This non-negotiable price that Wal-Mart specifies in a very high percentage of
> cases forces the supplier to cut costs somewhere to make any profit at all and I
> suspect that this is what Ilford did. I agree that a change in the
> name/packaging would have been a better service to the final consumer.
>
>

I sense that you think this Wal-Mart policy is wrong, but if it is, then
all large companies are doing the same wrong thing. Don't you think
that Sears/KMart doesn't do the same thing? Haven't you read how GM,
Chrysler, and Ford 'manage' their parts suppliers? It's called
controlling costs to make a profit.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
!