President for a day, or a week

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi All,

It's far too easy to be wise after the event.

So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?

Regards,
John Ward
87 answers Last reply
More about president week
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Maybe time for Bush to finally sign the Kyoyo Treaty and reduce emissions
    leading to global warming!! The hurricans etc are getting worse by the month
    around the Gulf of Mexico. Its a pity we haven't invented a giant
    'waterpistol' or 'squirtgun' aircraft that can jettison the rising tides
    into outerspace or is that being too sci-fi orientated.

    Ibby

    "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >
    > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    > aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >
    > Regards,
    > John Ward
    >
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:20:31 +1000, "John Ward"
    <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

    >Hi All,
    >
    > It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >
    > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >
    >Regards,
    >John Ward

    I'll let others address the "emergency" need (S&R, taking care of
    people who've been displaced, etc.)

    The first thing that needs to be done is to fix the levees to
    control the inflow of water into New Orleans. I understand that
    they've got one breach almost sealed.

    Once that happens, they can start pumping water.

    The next thing is infrastructure--roads, rail, water/sewer, and
    electricity. The transportation links in and throughout the area need
    to be a priority, because without them, it's very difficult to get all
    the people and "stuff" you need in to do what needs to be done. It
    appears that MSY can handle flights (not passenger flights, but relief
    flights), and that there wasn't a lot of damage at the airport.
    However, you can't fly in enough stuff to rebuild a large part of a
    city. You _can_ keep a city supplied (ie the Berlin Airlift) but it
    doesn't do any good to get a weeks worth of supplies for 100,000
    people into the airport if you can't get it out to the people who need
    it.

    I don't know the legalities involved, but I would certainly look at
    the possibility of having a plan for a Dunkirk-like evacuation by air
    (no plane leaves the area without a full compliment of passengers, any
    plane not grounded for maintenence issues and not already leaving is
    commandeered for the evacuation, etc.) A more realistic option might
    be to use any available AMC (formerly MATS) planes. Get people out of
    the immediate area as quickly as possible, and then transport them (by
    bus or by rail) to more settled locations.

    I would also look at the feasibility of coming up with a way to
    drain some of the water out of Lake Ponchetrain into the Gulf (the
    eastern part of the lake is not far from the Gulf of Mexico). You
    wouldn't be able to drain it dry, but every cubic foot of water you
    get out of the lake would be one less cubic foot to deal with.

    I'd also want to know what it would take to rebuild the levees to
    withstand a Cat V storm.

    take care,
    Scott
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    > Sorry should have read 'Kyoto Treaty'

    That's okay....George W. can't pronounce it. <g>

    "Ladies 'n Gents, dellow fellagates 'n such....I think it's time to
    sign
    that coyote treatment...can I get a hrmpff, a yeehaaaaaa and a Hoo-Ah?"


    Marcel
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I believe there is too much reliance on Federal Government to solve all
    problems. New Orleans sits under sea level and is surrounded by water,
    yet the City of New Orleans had no coordinated evacuation plan in
    place. When the storm approached their plan was "get out as fast as
    you can". What kind of plan is that? Every major city in the US
    should have a disaster plan in place and the citizens should take the
    time and effort to become familiar with the plan. The greatest enemy
    is complacency.
    It must be addressed and this is a wake-up call.
    -Greg
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Sorry should have read 'Kyoto Treaty'

    Ibby

    "Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris)"
    <chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:df9ct1$ck$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    > Maybe time for Bush to finally sign the Kyoyo Treaty and reduce emissions
    > leading to global warming!! The hurricans etc are getting worse by the
    > month around the Gulf of Mexico. Its a pity we haven't invented a giant
    > 'waterpistol' or 'squirtgun' aircraft that can jettison the rising tides
    > into outerspace or is that being too sci-fi orientated.
    >
    > Ibby
    >
    > "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    >> Hi All,
    >>
    >> It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >>
    >> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> John Ward
    >>
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Scott Stevenson" <almostfm.AMSPAY@UCKSAY.comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:43192ec5.667586875@news.giganews.com...
    > On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:20:31 +1000, "John Ward"
    > <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    >
    >
    > I'd also want to know what it would take to rebuild the levees to
    > withstand a Cat V storm.
    >

    Indeed! Presumably from a political standpoint, cost wouldn't enter into the
    argument now.
    If it is possible it should be done unless you want a repeat episode.
    Even us Brits managed to build the Thames Barrier many years ago at
    significant cost and while it has been raised a few times it has never had
    to deal with the scenario for which it was built. The consequences of a
    flooded London made it a 'no brainer'.

    Chris
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    The Road Runner is Vice President!!

    Ibby

    "Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1125672502.593208.47910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    >
    > Ibby (The Artist Formerly Known as Chris) wrote:
    >> Sorry should have read 'Kyoto Treaty'
    >
    > That's okay....George W. can't pronounce it. <g>
    >
    > "Ladies 'n Gents, dellow fellagates 'n such....I think it's time to
    > sign
    > that coyote treatment...can I get a hrmpff, a yeehaaaaaa and a Hoo-Ah?"
    >
    >
    > Marcel
    >
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> wrote in message
    news:C8qdnZ2dnZ3x2oLFnZ2dnR7Yhd6dnZ2dRVnyqp2dnZ0@pipex.net...
    > "Scott Stevenson" <almostfm.AMSPAY@UCKSAY.comcast.net> wrote in message
    > news:43192ec5.667586875@news.giganews.com...
    >> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:20:31 +1000, "John Ward"
    >> <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> I'd also want to know what it would take to rebuild the levees to
    >> withstand a Cat V storm.
    >>
    >
    > Indeed! Presumably from a political standpoint, cost wouldn't enter into
    > the argument now.
    > If it is possible it should be done unless you want a repeat episode.
    > Even us Brits managed to build the Thames Barrier many years ago at
    > significant cost and while it has been raised a few times it has never had
    > to deal with the scenario for which it was built. The consequences of a
    > flooded London made it a 'no brainer'.
    >
    > Chris

    Chris I agree its a no brainer, but when you have a "no brainer" running
    things then we have a problem...sorry for some politics :-)
    read
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

    California better take a look at their situation because there will be no
    warning like a hurricane
    Bill
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    >"John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    >news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    >>>> It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >>
    >> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?

    I've already taken some flack for my opinion (from friends), but what
    REALLY ticked me off was what I saw on TV today. A camera was rolling
    past one of the centers and hundreds of people were sitting outside
    it, doing absolutley nothing (I wish I could underline that). Sitting
    in piles of trash, which appeared to be at least partially of their
    own making. I realize they are suffering, but it seems that if
    nothing else, they could have at least started cleaning up the area
    they were in, just for something to do to keep busy and their minds
    off their problems till help came. The area around those centers must
    have parking lots, the least they could have done is started putting
    their trash into a big pile in the street or one of the parking lots -
    which would speed up cleanup efforts when the time comes. What I saw
    was a bunch of people waiting for someone else to help them, instead
    of trying at least a little bit to help themselves. It's their city,
    but none of the ones on the film clip seemed to give a hoot, they
    appeared to want someone else to clean up the mess for them.

    So maybe I'm a heartless jerk, but I'd be a lot more sympathetic to
    their situation if I saw them trying to do something instead of just
    sitting.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi again,

    On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:26:59 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
    <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote:>
    >Have you ever gone four days with food and little water, in 90 degree heat?

    I spent 356 days in Viet Nam in 1969/70, if that tells you anything
    (and I wasn't on a scenery tour).
    But I didn't expect most people to agree with my view, so that's ok.
    My point is this - in that situation, I'd rather be doing something
    then just sitting around, feeling sorry for myself.

    I guess this is what happens when a Flightsim forum gets off topic.
    Bye bye.
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "John Ward"
    > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    > aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?

    The administration clearly does not understand the importance of moving
    security forces quickly into urban disasters. Baghdad after the fall of
    Sadam and New Orleans day five look pretty much the same to me.


    Dallas
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    via
    our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?
    And for one built below sea level? If people and businesses wanted to
    live
    and do business there then should it not fall upon them to protect
    themselves?
    Funny that New Orleans could find the money to build a Superdome,
    convention
    center and a host of other magnificent facilities - yet were not able to
    tax
    themselves for proper levee maintenance! The finger pointing needs to
    start
    with the locally elected officials, not our Federal Government. Bush
    bashing is way off topic in this forum and a cheap shot to boot.


    "William" <alone@home.com> wrote in message
    news:1WXRe.11876$xw1.11557@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> wrote in message
    > news:C8qdnZ2dnZ3x2oLFnZ2dnR7Yhd6dnZ2dRVnyqp2dnZ0@pipex.net...
    >> "Scott Stevenson" <almostfm.AMSPAY@UCKSAY.comcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:43192ec5.667586875@news.giganews.com...
    >>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:20:31 +1000, "John Ward"
    >>> <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I'd also want to know what it would take to rebuild the levees to
    >>> withstand a Cat V storm.
    >>>
    >>
    >> Indeed! Presumably from a political standpoint, cost wouldn't enter
    into
    >> the argument now.
    >> If it is possible it should be done unless you want a repeat episode.
    >> Even us Brits managed to build the Thames Barrier many years ago at
    >> significant cost and while it has been raised a few times it has never
    >> had to deal with the scenario for which it was built. The consequences
    of
    >> a flooded London made it a 'no brainer'.
    >>
    >> Chris
    >
    > Chris I agree its a no brainer, but when you have a "no brainer" running
    > things then we have a problem...sorry for some politics :-)
    > read
    >
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_conte
    nt_id=1001051313
    >
    > California better take a look at their situation because there will be
    no
    > warning like a hurricane
    > Bill
    >


    --
    I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
    It has removed 1034 spam emails to date.
    Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
    Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:49p1df629jtd.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
    > "Rick @midsouth.rr.com>" <rglisson<nospam> wrote:
    >
    >> Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    >> via
    >> our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?
    >
    > Look at it this way: Had a few more millions been spent on ensuring that
    > the levees were strong enough for a CAT 5 hurricane, the US gov't (aka the
    > taxpayers) wouldn't have to pay the billions it will cost in security,
    > cleanup, handouts, etc.
    >
    > --
    > Peter
    >
    >

    Wow you mean it was that easy to see? :-)

    Bill
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Rick @midsouth.rr.com>" <rglisson<nospam> wrote:

    >Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    >via
    >our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?

    You're already paying for a $270million bridge going to an uninhabited
    island in Alaska. It was part of the pork imbedded in the highway &
    transportation bill passed not too long ago!

    They should at least postpone that 'bridge to nowhere' and redirect
    that money to NO. But that doesn't win votes for the Alaska
    politicians ;-(

    -=tom=-
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Rick
    > Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    > via our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?

    I screamed the same thing as I listened to the Louisiana politicians whine
    about how the Federal Government was responsible.

    But I'm afraid, legally speaking, the levee system was built and maintained
    by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and therefore the responsibility of the
    Feds.

    Dallas
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:eu1Se.5282$Wd7.1711@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > The administration clearly does not understand the importance of moving
    > security forces quickly into urban disasters. Baghdad after the fall of
    > Sadam and New Orleans day five look pretty much the same to me.

    I think in the long run the greatest lesson learnt might simply be humility.
    It's easy for us sitting here in our (usually) comfortable western
    lifestyles to look at the rest of the world's trouble-spots and consider
    ourselves superior and hauty when we see looting, killing and general
    disorder on the streets of Mogadishu, Baghdad, or wherever. New Orleans is
    a lesson for all that the veil of society is incredibly thin, and every
    country is only so far away from anarchic behaviour.

    Si
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Simon Robbins wrote:
    > wherever. New Orleans is a lesson for all that the veil of society
    > is incredibly thin, and every country is only so far away from
    > anarchic behaviour.
    >


    No veil there.. I haven't been to New Orleans for decades simply because of
    it's notorious, well earned, reputation, usually a regular on the top ten
    list as "Murder capital of the USA", rampant gang activities, etc... We
    make frequent visits to places like Houma and Natchoches, enjoying the
    Louisiana hospitality, but avoid the Big Easy like the plague...
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:13:34 -0400, Jim wrote:

    > I've already taken some flack for my opinion (from friends)...
    > So maybe I'm a heartless jerk, but I'd be a lot more sympathetic to
    > their situation if I saw them trying to do something instead of just
    > sitting.

    Only *some flack?*

    Here's a challenge for you...

    Go jump in a pool for 24 hours...

    Now, get out of the pool and walk 10 miles in 100+ degree heat.

    Spend the next four days standing/sitting around outside with no shade in
    100+ degree heat, with no food or water. Oh yes, you can't cheat and visit
    the restroom, you have to use a convenient bush. No toilet paper either!

    Now, go inside and clean your house completely...

    <sheesh!>
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    First things first. Having survived Ivan, the first thing you want is for
    someone to fly a C-130 over and kick a pallet of bottled water and a pallet
    of food (actually, the MRE's were quite good) out of the back. Ice is nice
    too. If they get time, a return trip with a pallet of generators and
    window-unit air conditioners would REALLY be special, but that's asking too
    much.

    I'm tired of hearing about the problem of delivery when we've had the
    capability to make low level parachute drops from the beginning... And
    there's still enough open and unused interstate to drop it off... Hell,
    Canal Street (counting the bus lanes) is over ten lanes wide... If you want
    to be really careful, drop some leaflets first "Where dropping a bunch of
    food and water, if it hits you it's gonna hurt. Get everyone to move to the
    side." If I'd been Bush after the tsunami, I'd have fired whoever came up
    with the "it takes time to get the logistics in place" excuse and told the
    next guy in line that I wanted a C-130 full of water and another full of
    food and some guy in the back throwing it out the door in six hours or he
    was going to be the guy in back in 12 hours....

    BTW - anyone know how much runway they got open at Moisant (now "Louis
    Armstrong Int'l") I got a friend with a plane.... Maybe with help I could
    find the rest of the old Charity Hospital Ambulance crew from the early
    80's... "I'm putting the band back together... we're on a mission from God".

    "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >
    > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    > aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >
    > Regards,
    > John Ward
    >
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    It was bad enough in the late 70's to mid 80's when I lived there... It's
    even worse now...

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:6w3Se.157758$E95.63966@fed1read01...
    > Simon Robbins wrote:
    >> wherever. New Orleans is a lesson for all that the veil of society
    >> is incredibly thin, and every country is only so far away from
    >> anarchic behaviour.
    >>
    >
    >
    > No veil there.. I haven't been to New Orleans for decades simply because
    > of it's notorious, well earned, reputation, usually a regular on the top
    > ten list as "Murder capital of the USA", rampant gang activities, etc...
    > We make frequent visits to places like Houma and Natchoches, enjoying the
    > Louisiana hospitality, but avoid the Big Easy like the plague...
    >
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Jay check this out
    http://www.vacationrentalsforfamilies.com/pressreleasesep1.html


    "Jay Williams" <Voodoo141@buggeroffspammercox.net> wrote in message
    news:HtaSe.8422$dm.755@lakeread03...
    > First things first. Having survived Ivan, the first thing you want is for
    > someone to fly a C-130 over and kick a pallet of bottled water and a
    > pallet of food (actually, the MRE's were quite good) out of the back. Ice
    > is nice too. If they get time, a return trip with a pallet of generators
    > and window-unit air conditioners would REALLY be special, but that's
    > asking too much.
    >
    > I'm tired of hearing about the problem of delivery when we've had the
    > capability to make low level parachute drops from the beginning... And
    > there's still enough open and unused interstate to drop it off... Hell,
    > Canal Street (counting the bus lanes) is over ten lanes wide... If you
    > want to be really careful, drop some leaflets first "Where dropping a
    > bunch of food and water, if it hits you it's gonna hurt. Get everyone to
    > move to the side." If I'd been Bush after the tsunami, I'd have fired
    > whoever came up with the "it takes time to get the logistics in place"
    > excuse and told the next guy in line that I wanted a C-130 full of water
    > and another full of food and some guy in the back throwing it out the door
    > in six hours or he was going to be the guy in back in 12 hours....
    >
    > BTW - anyone know how much runway they got open at Moisant (now "Louis
    > Armstrong Int'l") I got a friend with a plane.... Maybe with help I
    > could find the rest of the old Charity Hospital Ambulance crew from the
    > early 80's... "I'm putting the band back together... we're on a mission
    > from God".
    >
    > "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    >> Hi All,
    >>
    >> It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >>
    >> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> John Ward
    >>
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Tom Orle"
    > You're already paying for a $270million bridge going to an uninhabited
    > island in Alaska.

    Oh no... you're wrong. That island is not uninhabited, Gravina Island has a
    population of around 50.

    It will connect to the megalopolis of Ketchikan (pop. 8,000). The bridge
    will be nearly as long as the Golden Gate and higher than the Brooklyn
    Bridge. They really need it because they get really tired paddling their
    canoes across in the summer.

    Dallas
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Jim,

    Reports here, in Australia, this morning, are indicating that armed
    looters are still on the streets, there has been some rioting, the relief
    problems are not yet properly addressed or effective, and that the total
    bill may even go as high as $100 billion.

    Pretty flabbergasting stuff, but there's no way to know how accurate any
    of the reporting is, of course.

    Regards,
    John Ward
    "Jim" <BozAir@REMOVETHISchartermi.net> wrote in message
    news:vdfhh154jdpk9ot3up5p7pse7mfi9r01tm@4ax.com...
    > >"John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    >>news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    >>>>> It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >>>
    >>> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >>> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >
    > I've already taken some flack for my opinion (from friends), but what
    > REALLY ticked me off was what I saw on TV today. A camera was rolling
    > past one of the centers and hundreds of people were sitting outside
    > it, doing absolutley nothing (I wish I could underline that). Sitting
    > in piles of trash, which appeared to be at least partially of their
    > own making. I realize they are suffering, but it seems that if
    > nothing else, they could have at least started cleaning up the area
    > they were in, just for something to do to keep busy and their minds
    > off their problems till help came. The area around those centers must
    > have parking lots, the least they could have done is started putting
    > their trash into a big pile in the street or one of the parking lots -
    > which would speed up cleanup efforts when the time comes. What I saw
    > was a bunch of people waiting for someone else to help them, instead
    > of trying at least a little bit to help themselves. It's their city,
    > but none of the ones on the film clip seemed to give a hoot, they
    > appeared to want someone else to clean up the mess for them.
    >
    > So maybe I'm a heartless jerk, but I'd be a lot more sympathetic to
    > their situation if I saw them trying to do something instead of just
    > sitting.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    ___| reply |__________________________________________________________
    If I'd been Bush after the tsunami, I'd have fired whoever came up
    with the "it takes time to get the logistics in place" excuse and told
    the
    next guy in line that I wanted a C-130 full of water and another full
    of
    food and some guy in the back throwing it out the door in six hours or
    he
    was going to be the guy in back in 12 hours....

    _____________________________________________________________________

    My first prediction, based on what happened to the former CIA director
    George Tenet: a year from now, "whoever came up with the 'it takes time
    to get the logistics in place' excuse" will get the presidential Medal
    of Freedom, for his service to the people of Louisiana and Mississippi.


    My second prediction, based on the big give-away that rolled through
    both houses of Congress this summer: in six weeks, someone is going to
    sponsor a second major energy bill, which will offer additional tax
    incentives to oil companies that upgrade or expand their existing
    refineries. We, the taxpayers, will make this sacrifice "for the sake
    of national security."

    _________________________________________________________
    Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
    Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Jay Williams" <Voodoo141@buggeroffspammercox.net> wrote:

    >First things first. Having survived Ivan, the first thing you want is for
    >someone to fly a C-130 over and kick a pallet of bottled water

    Doesn't the military have those humongeous rubber bladders which can
    contain 10s of thousands of gallons of liquid?
    I wonderd why the couldn't use those and drop them at strategic
    locations around the city.

    -=tom=-
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >
    >"Tom Orle"
    >> You're already paying for a $270million bridge going to an uninhabited
    >> island in Alaska.
    >
    >Oh no... you're wrong. That island is not uninhabited, Gravina Island has a
    >population of around 50.
    >
    >It will connect to the megalopolis of Ketchikan (pop. 8,000). The bridge
    >will be nearly as long as the Golden Gate and higher than the Brooklyn
    >Bridge. They really need it because they get really tired paddling their
    >canoes across in the summer.
    >
    >Dallas
    >

    Wow - are the 4 lanes of the proposed bridge enough to handle all that
    traffic? :-)

    Seriously though - I just quoted a news report where they did say it
    was uninhabited. And you know how reliable these reports are;-(

    I hadn't even heard of that pork project passed in the bill.

    -=tom=-
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "William" <alone@home.com> wrote in message
    news:1WXRe.11876$xw1.11557@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> wrote in message
    > news:C8qdnZ2dnZ3x2oLFnZ2dnR7Yhd6dnZ2dRVnyqp2dnZ0@pipex.net...
    >> "Scott Stevenson" <almostfm.AMSPAY@UCKSAY.comcast.net> wrote in message
    >> news:43192ec5.667586875@news.giganews.com...
    >>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:20:31 +1000, "John Ward"
    >>> <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I'd also want to know what it would take to rebuild the levees to
    >>> withstand a Cat V storm.
    >>>
    >>
    >> Indeed! Presumably from a political standpoint, cost wouldn't enter into
    >> the argument now.
    >> If it is possible it should be done unless you want a repeat episode.
    >> Even us Brits managed to build the Thames Barrier many years ago at
    >> significant cost and while it has been raised a few times it has never
    >> had to deal with the scenario for which it was built. The consequences of
    >> a flooded London made it a 'no brainer'.
    >>
    >> Chris
    >
    > Chris I agree its a no brainer, but when you have a "no brainer" running
    > things then we have a problem...sorry for some politics :-)
    > read
    > http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
    >
    > California better take a look at their situation because there will be no
    > warning like a hurricane
    > Bill

    Good site. Thanks Bill

    Chris
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    and I think you're right!

    "David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> wrote in
    message news:1125771578.1996@forums.simradar.com...
    >
    > ___| reply |__________________________________________________________
    > If I'd been Bush after the tsunami, I'd have fired whoever came up
    > with the "it takes time to get the logistics in place" excuse and told
    > the
    > next guy in line that I wanted a C-130 full of water and another full
    > of
    > food and some guy in the back throwing it out the door in six hours or
    > he
    > was going to be the guy in back in 12 hours....
    >
    > _____________________________________________________________________
    >
    > My first prediction, based on what happened to the former CIA director
    > George Tenet: a year from now, "whoever came up with the 'it takes time
    > to get the logistics in place' excuse" will get the presidential Medal
    > of Freedom, for his service to the people of Louisiana and Mississippi.
    >
    >
    > My second prediction, based on the big give-away that rolled through
    > both houses of Congress this summer: in six weeks, someone is going to
    > sponsor a second major energy bill, which will offer additional tax
    > incentives to oil companies that upgrade or expand their existing
    > refineries. We, the taxpayers, will make this sacrifice "for the sake
    > of national security."
    >
    > _________________________________________________________
    > Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
    > Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I'll send it around, thanks!!! Unfortunately, most of the vacation homes in
    Pensacola were on the beach or Perdido Key and most of those are not fit for
    habitation yet... The few on the beach that were, were flattened again by
    Dennis. I don't know about Perdido Key.

    "William" <alone@home.com> wrote in message
    news:Z8eSe.1083$VU6.643@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
    > Jay check this out
    > http://www.vacationrentalsforfamilies.com/pressreleasesep1.html
    >
    >
    >
    > "Jay Williams" <Voodoo141@buggeroffspammercox.net> wrote in message
    > news:HtaSe.8422$dm.755@lakeread03...
    >> First things first. Having survived Ivan, the first thing you want is
    >> for someone to fly a C-130 over and kick a pallet of bottled water and a
    >> pallet of food (actually, the MRE's were quite good) out of the back.
    >> Ice is nice too. If they get time, a return trip with a pallet of
    >> generators and window-unit air conditioners would REALLY be special, but
    >> that's asking too much.
    >>
    >> I'm tired of hearing about the problem of delivery when we've had the
    >> capability to make low level parachute drops from the beginning... And
    >> there's still enough open and unused interstate to drop it off... Hell,
    >> Canal Street (counting the bus lanes) is over ten lanes wide... If you
    >> want to be really careful, drop some leaflets first "Where dropping a
    >> bunch of food and water, if it hits you it's gonna hurt. Get everyone to
    >> move to the side." If I'd been Bush after the tsunami, I'd have fired
    >> whoever came up with the "it takes time to get the logistics in place"
    >> excuse and told the next guy in line that I wanted a C-130 full of water
    >> and another full of food and some guy in the back throwing it out the
    >> door in six hours or he was going to be the guy in back in 12 hours....
    >>
    >> BTW - anyone know how much runway they got open at Moisant (now "Louis
    >> Armstrong Int'l") I got a friend with a plane.... Maybe with help I
    >> could find the rest of the old Charity Hospital Ambulance crew from the
    >> early 80's... "I'm putting the band back together... we're on a mission
    >> from God".
    >>
    >> "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    >> news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    >>> Hi All,
    >>>
    >>> It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >>>
    >>> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >>> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >>>
    >>> Regards,
    >>> John Ward
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In article <df9ct1$ck$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    chris@mwapartnershipNOSPAM.co.uk says...
    > Maybe time for Bush to finally sign the Kyoyo Treaty and reduce emissions
    > leading to global warming!!

    Wrong.

    > The hurricans etc are getting worse by the month
    > around the Gulf of Mexico.

    And wrong. Try looking at the history of hurricanes beyond just the
    past decade or two.

    > Its a pity we haven't invented a giant
    > 'waterpistol' or 'squirtgun' aircraft that can jettison the rising tides
    > into outerspace or is that being too sci-fi orientated.
    >
    > Ibby
    >
    > "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:4317ef2b$0$30086$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
    > > Hi All,
    > >
    > > It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    > >
    > > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    > > aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > John Ward
    > >
    >
    >
    >
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    ___| reply |__________________________________________________________

    > Maybe time for Bush to finally sign the Kyoyo Treaty and reduce
    emissions
    > leading to global warming!!

    Wrong.

    > The hurricans etc are getting worse by the month
    > around the Gulf of Mexico.

    And wrong. Try looking at the history of hurricanes beyond just the
    past decade or two.

    _____________________________________________________________________
    I don't think anyone here believes that the president can create
    hurricanes. But something is changing, and a brand-new study of
    long-term trends confirms it. If you've been reading the newspaper or
    listening to the radio lately, you may know that Kerry Emanuel, a
    professor of atmospheric science at MIT, has just published an article
    in the journal Nature, which shows that the duration and force of
    hurricanes have increased 50% over the last three decades. Google
    "Kerry Emanuel" for details; or read the "executive summary" at
    National Geographic:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0804_050804_hurricanewa
    rming.html

    _________________________________________________________
    Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
    Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In article <Yn2Se.90711$gB.60083@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>, "Rick
    @midsouth.rr.com>" <rglisson<nospam> says...
    > Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    > via
    > our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?
    > And for one built below sea level? If people and businesses wanted to
    > live
    > and do business there then should it not fall upon them to protect
    > themselves?
    > Funny that New Orleans could find the money to build a Superdome,
    > convention
    > center and a host of other magnificent facilities - yet were not able to
    > tax
    > themselves for proper levee maintenance! The finger pointing needs to
    > start
    > with the locally elected officials, not our Federal Government. Bush
    > bashing is way off topic in this forum and a cheap shot to boot.

    Rick, it is a shame that some people will use any occasion to bash Bush.
    According some some (see Ibby's post) even the *hurricane itself* is
    Bush's fault. Sigh.

    John Black
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    David Wilson-Okamura wrote:
    > "Kerry Emanuel" for details; or read the "executive summary" at
    > National Geographic:
    > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0804_050804_hurricanewa


    Don't try and confuse us with facts David...........
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    The power of human beings pale into insignificance compared to the
    forces of nature. In the past humans attributed natural disasters to
    God. In this age of secularism blame must be attributed to human
    beings. George Bush is arguably the most powerful human being on
    earth, so it is natural to blame him. In a more religious age the
    blame would go to God
    -Greg
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    John Black

    I didn't blame Bush directly. The original question was what should we do
    in the aftermath. I am not a member of the 'Greenparty' and don't go
    overboard on recycling etc but one has to admit our climate IS changing for
    the worse. There does seem to be more severe weather hitting the south east
    coast of US lately i.e. Miami coastline - why is this?

    Bush is only one member of an Administration but this present government put
    economics before passing any Bill when he catagoritly refused to take
    measures to reduce carbon emissions from road vehicles or industry (which
    looks increasingly like the culprit for global warming). If something isn't
    done it may well be too late.

    Ibby

    > Rick, it is a shame that some people will use any occasion to bash Bush.
    > According some some (see Ibby's post) even the *hurricane itself* is
    > Bush's fault. Sigh.
    >
    > John Black
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Probably cause most security forces are in far off places fighting a war!

    Ibby

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:eu1Se.5282$Wd7.1711@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "John Ward"
    >> So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    >> aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?
    >
    > The administration clearly does not understand the importance of moving
    > security forces quickly into urban disasters. Baghdad after the fall of
    > Sadam and New Orleans day five look pretty much the same to me.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I really don't mean to get into a flameout with you, but I haven't the
    slightest idea what you are talking about. I made a comment attacking
    nobody and you call it bullshit. Obvioulsy you disagree. As a courtesy,
    if you are able, please be a bit more articulate. Thank you.
    Greg
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    aakermit wrote:
    > The power of human beings pale into insignificance compared to the
    > forces of nature. In the past humans attributed natural disasters to
    > God. In this age of secularism blame must be attributed to human
    > beings. George Bush is arguably the most powerful human being on
    > earth, so it is natural to blame him. In a more religious age the
    > blame would go to God


    You're not comparing apples to apples....

    More like apples to bullshit - which is which being another very subjective
    subject........
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Ok, I see your point. The use of the term "bullshit" threw me. I am
    not a prude, but the word has a somewhat inflamatory connotation.
    Perhaps "apples to oranges" would have better for me.

    I in no way believe that religion, or the religious age constitutes a
    superior form of thought. I also do not believe that George Bush is
    anywhere close to God (favorite deity). My point is that when a
    cataclysmic event occurs, be it the Great Flood or Hurricane Katrina,
    humans look to a "higher power" for an explanation or cause. I refer
    to George Bush as a higher power in the sense that he is President and
    as Harry Truman so aptly said, "the buck stops here". People are
    frustrated because they can't control the situation. Instead of saying
    "why did God allow this to happen?", they say "why did George Bush
    allow this to happen?"
    -Greg
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I think I see where this is going. I am trying not to make a judgement
    about George Bush other than he is the obvious one to blame. He
    rejected the Kyoto treaty, the temperature of the ocean increased, and
    Hurricane Katrina ocurred. Ergo George Bush is God. (pre-cataclysm
    illogic) As to post-cataclysm logic, people see and believe what they
    want to believe. The first major poll just out shows that 46% think
    Bush is to blame and 47% thinmk he is not to blame. Ironically, these
    are about the same percentages of opinion about Bush before the
    cataclysm.
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    John Ward wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > It's far too easy to be wise after the event.
    >
    > So here's a pro-active challenge - what should be done to address the
    > aftermath of Katrina, including all aviation matters?

    I think everything that needs to be done is being done:

    President Bush toured the area Friday, showed reporters bars where he
    used to drink when he was in college, and told them Trent Lott is
    building a new house and it's going to be a doozy and he can't wait to
    sit on the porch.

    I don't know about you, but I'm greatly relieved.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    David Wilson-Okamura wrote:
    > ___| reply |__________________________________________________________
    >
    >
    >>Maybe time for Bush to finally sign the Kyoyo Treaty and reduce
    >
    > emissions
    >
    >>leading to global warming!!
    >
    >
    > Wrong.
    >
    >
    >>The hurricans etc are getting worse by the month
    >>around the Gulf of Mexico.
    >
    >
    > And wrong. Try looking at the history of hurricanes beyond just the
    > past decade or two.
    >
    > _____________________________________________________________________
    > I don't think anyone here believes that the president can create
    > hurricanes. But something is changing, and a brand-new study of
    > long-term trends confirms it. If you've been reading the newspaper or
    > listening to the radio lately, you may know that Kerry Emanuel, a
    > professor of atmospheric science at MIT, has just published an article
    > in the journal Nature, which shows that the duration and force of
    > hurricanes have increased 50% over the last three decades. Google
    > "Kerry Emanuel" for details; or read the "executive summary" at
    > National Geographic:
    > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0804_050804_hurricanewa
    > rming.html

    I haven't read the study, and I really don't have an opinion, but just
    because some guy publishes a paper....I mean, use Google yourself and
    find that every scientist has his own opinion, report, paper, and
    "proof" about everything. Just because one guy says one thing doesn't
    mean much, sorry.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    ___| reply |__________________________________________________________
    I haven't read the study, and I really don't have an opinion, but just

    because some guy publishes a paper....I mean, use Google yourself and
    find that every scientist has his own opinion, report, paper, and
    "proof" about everything. Just because one guy says one thing doesn't
    mean much, sorry.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    You don't seem to understand how academic science works. I'm not a
    scientist, but I do know something about academic publishing. Here's
    the process: you submit your article for something called "peer
    review." "Nature" is the premier journal in American science, so the
    people who do peer review for it are the very best people in their
    field. Now, if it gets published in "Nature," it doesn't guarantee it's
    true. It does mean, though, that it's been subjected to the very
    highest levels of scientific scrutiny.

    You can ignore it if you like. But don't hide behind "every scientist
    has his own opinion." Some studies meet the test of peer review, others
    don't. I don't believe everything I read on the internet, and I hope
    you don't either. The question is how to discern the truth among so
    many conflicting opinions. Some people look at the variety of opinions,
    throw up their hands, and decide to believe whatever is convenient.
    That's irresponsible. The alternative is to weigh the source of the
    information and the evidence on which it's based -- and let the chips
    fall where they may. You can still make mistakes that way, so if you
    have a better method, let me know. But the alternative is far, far
    worse, because it's not even trying to find out the truth -- it's just
    looking for confirmation of its own prejudices.

    _________________________________________________________
    Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
    Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Rick @midsouth.rr.com>
    > Wait a minute... why should the rest of us pay for levee improvements,
    > via
    > our Federal Income Tax, in a city we don't live in?
    > And for one built below sea level? If people and businesses wanted to
    > live
    > and do business there then should it not fall upon them to protect
    > themselves?
    > Funny that New Orleans could find the money to build a Superdome,
    > convention
    > center and a host of other magnificent facilities - yet were not able to
    > tax
    > themselves for proper levee maintenance!

    Try learning facts before you post.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Tom Orle wrote:

    > I hadn't even heard of that pork project passed in the bill.

    Almost no one has, except maybe those of us who read overseas pubs like
    the Economist and the BBC.

    That's America's "liberal media" for ya! You know, the one that
    pork-barrelers are always complaining about.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    John Black wrote:

    > Rick, it is a shame that some people will use any occasion to bash Bush.

    It's a shame people used any occasion to Clinton Bash, too.

    Or was everything, including 9/11, really all his fault?


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    aakermit wrote:
    > I believe there is too much reliance on Federal Government to solve all
    > problems. New Orleans sits under sea level and is surrounded by water,
    > yet the City of New Orleans had no coordinated evacuation plan in
    > place. When the storm approached their plan was "get out as fast as
    > you can". What kind of plan is that? Every major city in the US
    > should have a disaster plan in place and the citizens should take the
    > time and effort to become familiar with the plan.

    Yup. If they'd done that, those 90-year-old ladies dying in their
    attics right now would have been able to hightail it out of town in
    their electric wheelchairs, yup.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  48. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Jim wrote:
    > Hi again,
    >
    > On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:26:59 +0100, "Simon Robbins"
    > <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote:>
    >
    >>Have you ever gone four days with food and little water, in 90 degree heat?
    >
    >
    > I spent 356 days in Viet Nam in 1969/70, if that tells you anything

    No, it doesn't. Oh, I know you think that means your experience is
    comparable, but maybe it wasn't.


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
  49. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Jim wrote:

    > I've already taken some flack for my opinion (from friends), but what
    > REALLY ticked me off was what I saw on TV today. A camera was rolling
    > past one of the centers and hundreds of people were sitting outside
    > it, doing absolutley nothing (I wish I could underline that). Sitting
    > in piles of trash, which appeared to be at least partially of their
    > own making. I realize they are suffering, but it seems that if
    > nothing else, they could have at least started cleaning up the area
    > they were in, just for something to do to keep busy and their minds
    > off their problems till help came. The area around those centers must
    > have parking lots, the least they could have done is started putting
    > their trash into a big pile in the street or one of the parking lots -
    > which would speed up cleanup efforts when the time comes. What I saw
    > was a bunch of people waiting for someone else to help them, instead
    > of trying at least a little bit to help themselves. It's their city,
    > but none of the ones on the film clip seemed to give a hoot, they
    > appeared to want someone else to clean up the mess for them.
    >
    > So maybe I'm a heartless jerk, but I'd be a lot more sympathetic to
    > their situation if I saw them trying to do something instead of just
    > sitting.

    I was thinking the same thing when I see old film clips of refugees in
    Europe after WWII. Why did they just sit there huddled waiting for food
    and water and clothing from GIs? Why didn't they start cleaning up
    their own rubble? That way reconstruction might not have taken as long
    as it did, and it would have given them something to do to stave off the
    boredom. And those concentration camp slackers!! Geeze, those places
    sure needed a coat of paint. Some people are just *so* lazy, aren't they?


    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
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