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A few questions I have about processors

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June 13, 2006 1:28:06 PM

Hi im buying a new computer from dell for gaming. I would build one myself but I wouldnt know where to start. Now my question as it may seem obvious to anyone who knows computers is which processor type performs better for games a dual core or a HT processor. Im a fan of intel because ive grown comfortable with them since ive used them all my life and im afraid to start using another brand such as AMD because im told that AMD are better for gaming even thou they have lower GHZ which confuses me. I was checking out the Pentium D processor which also confuses me. What exactly is a pentium D is it a dual core pentium 4 or is it its own type? Now my second question I was checking out two different video card set ups. The 512MB ATI Radeon X1900 XTX and Dual 512 MB Nvidia GeForce 7900 GTX. These set ups were almost identical in every way except the ATI has 16(48 ALUs) pixel shaders and the Nvidia has 24 pixel shaders and no mention of ALUs. What are ALUs ?

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June 13, 2006 2:30:32 PM

First place to start is to check the processors you are interested in the cpu charts. Use the gaming benchmarks, since that is what you are interested in. The pentium D is a dual core pentium 4. Another thing to keep in mind is that Intel is releasing the successor to the pentium next month, and it looks to be a killer. So if you can wait 1.5-2 months, you will probably be very satisfied with the result.
June 13, 2006 2:36:09 PM

You're bound to get a lot of answer that have to do with fan stuff, but little else. I have a number of computers, some with Intel chips, some with AMD chips. The AMD chips are slower in mhz, but do more with each tick of the clock cycle, so become faster in effect. Think of one chip using a teaspoon to measure data and the other using a tablespoon. The teaspoon chip has to move a lot faster to transfer the same amount as the tablespoon chip. That's the difference between Intel going fast and AMD going slow. Also, AMD has proven better for games, though Intel has been better for some business applications. Don't know all the whys of their differences, just that they are there.

I would go with the 512 mg x1900 XTX. Unless you get a big monitor with high resolution, dual cards have little value, whether SLI or Crossfire. The 1900 XTX is a bit faster than the 7900 GTX and allows both HRD and AA at the same time while the the 7900 makes you choose one or the other, from what I've read. Either is a good card, however. The final decision is up to you and your pocketbook. Read some of the reviews on the various cards for a better guideline of what you want.
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June 13, 2006 2:43:57 PM

Quote:
im afraid to start using another brand such as AMD because im told that AMD are better for gaming even thou they have lower GHZ which confuses me. I was checking out the Pentium D processor which also confuses me.


If you're that easely confused, just go get Dell'ed, chances are that you'll get an headache if you stare at a motherboard manual for too long (yup, those things come with detailed instructions)...
June 13, 2006 3:20:50 PM

thank you most of you have been helpful not including Sidvicious who just decided to insult me since im not very knowledgable about computers. I will go with the ATI since ive had ATIs before and they have never given me any problems. Ive never had any problems running games on intels so I will stick with them but thanks for the information on that I understand it now. Theboomboomcars how much are these processors going to be when they come out if they arnt a couple grand I may wait for them.
June 13, 2006 3:31:25 PM

The new CPU (called Core 2 Duo or Conroe) will be starting around $200-300 for the lowest model, which should be enough for any game, as long as it's paired with a good graphics card. You might also want to wait for the next-gen graphics cards, but I'm not going to try to explain why because it will just confuse you. I also won't try to explain why AMD CPUs are better for gaming; they just are.
June 13, 2006 3:53:06 PM

I don't think he meant to be insulting. Hooking up a motherboard is actually a very detailed affair. You'd be better off to just get a nice dell system, then start accumulating parts to tinker with to get your geek skill +1.
June 13, 2006 4:56:15 PM

Quote:
thank you most of you have been helpful not including Sidvicious who just decided to insult me since im not very knowledgable about computers.


"If you can't stand the heat, stay ouf of the kitchen"

You obviously did'nt get the meaning of my previous post, you percieved an insult where none was intended, my tone was blunt as I don't believe in sugarcoating reality to make it more palateable.

Building a computer is'nt that hard but you need to grasp certain technical notions first. Truth is, if you're that easely confused, going the DIY route is not for you as you are likely to drown yourself in a puddle of knowledge.

If you are willing to put some effort in learning how, sure, go ahead but you won't accomplish anything if you decide to cuddle yourself into a warm and fuzzy Dell blanket.
June 13, 2006 5:11:07 PM

Quote:
You're bound to get a lot of answer that have to do with fan stuff, but little else. I have a number of computers, some with Intel chips, some with AMD chips. The AMD chips are slower in mhz, but do more with each tick of the clock cycle, so become faster in effect. Think of one chip using a teaspoon to measure data and the other using a tablespoon. The teaspoon chip has to move a lot faster to transfer the same amount as the tablespoon chip. That's the difference between Intel going fast and AMD going slow.


That's a decent analogy but keep in mind that the Intel Core CPUs showing up in ~5 weeks will have fairly large tablespoons.
June 13, 2006 5:17:25 PM

Quote:
I don't think he meant to be insulting. Hooking up a motherboard is actually a very detailed affair. You'd be better off to just get a nice dell system, then start accumulating parts to tinker with to get your geek skill +1.


It takes less than an hour to build a compleat computer.
June 13, 2006 5:20:01 PM

Quote:
I don't think he meant to be insulting. Hooking up a motherboard is actually a very detailed affair. You'd be better off to just get a nice dell system, then start accumulating parts to tinker with to get your geek skill +1.


It takes less than an hour to build a compleat computer.

True, but it takes more than one hour to learn how...
June 13, 2006 5:24:36 PM

Quote:
thank you most of you have been helpful not including Sidvicious who just decided to insult me since im not very knowledgable about computers.


"If you can't stand the heat, stay ouf of the kitchen"

You obviously did'nt get the meaning of my previous post, you percieved an insult where none was intended, my tone was blunt as I don't believe in sugarcoating reality to make it more palateable.

Building a computer is'nt that hard but you need to grasp certain technical notions first. Truth is, if you're that easely confused, going the DIY route is not for you as you are likely to drown yourself in a puddle of knowledge.

If you are willing to put some effort in learning how, sure, go ahead but you won't accomplish anything if you decide to cuddle yourself into a warm and fuzzy Dell blanket.

Good luck with the Dell and I hope it is still running 2 years later.

When the PSU dies remember that you can't just put a "normal" one in yourself. Unless they have changed thier ways Dell has always used low grade PSU's and have the wires on the MB mod'ed to reverse the +/- so as to sell parts after the warrenty ends and useing a non-Dell PSU used to fry the MB's!
June 13, 2006 6:43:51 PM

You can throw it all together and hope it works, or you can take your time, make sure things are socketed well, and come out with a good machine. Besides a real computer builder knows the job ain't done till the OS is on right? What use is a computer if it has no software? The OS install there takes atleast half an hr, which is AFTER building it, then you have to configure it: Just a thought........ :lol: 

BTW i would rather take the time to build it right the first time, than to double my time trying to repair it after a sloppy build......JMHO
June 13, 2006 6:59:43 PM

Hi, I'mlost.

To start off with, my credentials: Network and computer administrator for University of California, Riverside; I manage computers in the various libraries. Additionally, I've built 10+ personal or family computers from scratch, and I read far too many reviews.


Now, for the goods: Just because intel has worked for you doesn't mean you should stick with them. With components other than cpu's and gpu's, this is a fine approach. With CPU's and GPU's, there are basically two companies, and both are rock solid.

Right now, AMD CPUs will be much better for you, if you plan on gaming. If you don't, Intel CPU's may be better, primarily because the Intel Dual-Cores are so dirt cheap. Keep in mind, this is scheduled to change in a few short weeks. AMD will drop prices quite a bit on the dual-cores, and intel will release a competative CPU (Core 2) (note, they already have a lineup of great CPU's, the Core-Duo's and the Pentium M chips; these are for notebooks though and you shouldn't worry about these).

Bottom line: If you're going dell you're going intel, at least for now, but honestly if you want to put together your own machine, you'll find tons of guides. And if you do, I'd either wait a few weeks for the new intel CPUs (which may not even be available; even if they aren't, though, the AMD cpu's will drop in price, as this new Intel CPU is really quite nice. At a lower price, the AMD dual-cores will be an awesome value, even with a superior Intel CPU out).

Regarding GPU's, both companies have great products. The 7900 is probably the best performer in terms of powerconsumption, but I have read reviews that suggest that the X1900 series can be a little better (depending upon the model). Essentially, though, both companies make excellent GPU's and your choice should hinge upon the price you can get. Pick a game you will play a lot, if you can, and check the benchmarks in that game to compare different cards.

I'd suggest you build your PC. If you have the time and energy, you'll find that it will increase your appreciation for your machine and you can definately end up with a better computer (though it takes time, and time is money ... so where the better value lies will depend upon your skill and the deals Dell can give you).
June 13, 2006 7:51:13 PM

Check this out for more pricing info.

Here's a link showing what AMD plans to do. Might as well make an informed decision.
June 13, 2006 8:14:04 PM

Dell XPS 600:

Pentium® D Processor 940 with Dual Core Technology (3.20GHz, 800FSB)

Operating System:
Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition

Video Cards:
512MB ATI Radeon X1900 XTX

Memory:
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 4 DIMMs

Hard Drive:
320GB Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA 3Gb/s HDDs)

This is what I was planning on getting. I just pasted the important things since things like mouse, keyboard are not important. Would you reccomend changing any thing considering this is going to be a gaming computer not including the processor brand lol
June 13, 2006 8:56:55 PM

should be fine for you, btw you cant just change proccessor brand you would need to change the motherboard and ram, to go AMD(unless u go AM2, then just a mobo would be needed) stick with that system then as time goes on upgrade the parts in a couple of years and slowly build up knowledge about the inside of your computer even just plugging in a card to a PCI slot is knowlegable if u can plug in a PCI card you can do a GFX, you might want to change the RAM though i would prefer 2 sticks of 1GB rather than 4 sticks.
June 13, 2006 9:05:43 PM

Quote:
Hi im buying a new computer from dell for gaming. I would build one myself but I wouldnt know where to start. Now my question as it may seem obvious to anyone who knows computers is which processor type performs better for games a dual core or a HT processor. Im a fan of intel because ive grown comfortable with them since ive used them all my life and im afraid to start using another brand such as AMD because im told that AMD are better for gaming even thou they have lower GHZ which confuses me. I was checking out the Pentium D processor which also confuses me. What exactly is a pentium D is it a dual core pentium 4 or is it its own type? Now my second question I was checking out two different video card set ups. The 512MB ATI Radeon X1900 XTX and Dual 512 MB Nvidia GeForce 7900 GTX. These set ups were almost identical in every way except the ATI has 16(48 ALUs) pixel shaders and the Nvidia has 24 pixel shaders and no mention of ALUs. What are ALUs ?



Hi Imlost,

Building your own PC is something that will reward you over and over again, and it's not rocket science.

Most of the learning can be done in about 1 day. Get yourself a book that suits you and go for it.

The only computer I ever purchased was my first one. I've built at least 75 computers of all kinds and started as a very newbie. There's no shame in not knowing, you can always learn.

The rewards:

You'll end-up with a better computer and will not be limited by xyz manufacturer's upgrade obstacle path. Yeah, they throw roadblocks should you ever want to revamp a brand name computer.

When you build your own, you know all the components. Furthermore, rather than taking it to the local repair shop, you can fix it your own self.

buzz_x
June 13, 2006 9:13:10 PM

He's wasting our time, that kid already had Dell in mind and no intention to go another route when he came here in the first place...
June 13, 2006 9:57:55 PM

Quote:
He's wasting our time, that kid already had Dell in mind and no intention to go another route when he came here in the first place...


Totally agree. I think he is the DELL sales representor. Just want to tell us that DELL is better than DIY PC.
a b à CPUs
June 13, 2006 10:19:20 PM

Quote:
First place to start is to check the processors you are interested in the cpu charts. Use the gaming benchmarks, since that is what you are interested in. The pentium D is a dual core pentium 4. Another thing to keep in mind is that Intel is releasing the successor to the pentium next month, and it looks to be a killer. So if you can wait 1.5-2 months, you will probably be very satisfied with the result.


dont ever mention that name again for conroe

anyhow when conroe comes out (Intel Core II Duo) and when all the prices are set for both AMD and Intel, AMD might be the better buy $$$ wise if they do things right in that perspective; efficency - Intel will own it seems and pure performance aswell, but if AMD's smart they will compete (price wise) between Intels high and low end forcing buyers either way as a good "back for the buck" - its what there good at, but if Intel fills the void of high and low end (which they may have) at a decent price then AMD will have some serious headaches.

But then again fanboys will assist as always.
June 13, 2006 10:20:46 PM

You guys need to get over yourselves and over Dell.

The guy came on here asking which Dell to purchase. That is all!

People made the appropriate comments that he should build it himself. He is still thinking about a Dell. (to some this build it yourself concept is a very worrisome task)

I too recommend that IF POSSIBLE you build it yourself. If not the then the other people here were right in asking you to wait a month or so. The new processors about to ship will give a substantial increase in speed and or will also reduce the pricing on all current processors (not just AMD). That 940 may be much cheaper very soon!

Most here I do beleive would not reocmmend an SLI/Crossfire setup at this time. The reason is that newer video cards are also ready to ship! The newer cards are set to support something called DirectX 10. This is one of the requirements for the new Vista OS coming soon as well.

I gues what some here are saying is that we are in a very transitional period for CPUs, GPUs and OSs.

Although a Dell might do you very well for its lifetime it is not something that most on this site would ever really say Hey go for it! This is an enthusiast site and we build.

Good luck to you in whatever purchase you decide to make!
June 13, 2006 10:32:57 PM

Quote:
You're bound to get a lot of answer that have to do with fan stuff, but little else. I have a number of computers, some with Intel chips, some with AMD chips. The AMD chips are slower in mhz, but do more with each tick of the clock cycle, so become faster in effect. Think of one chip using a teaspoon to measure data and the other using a tablespoon. The teaspoon chip has to move a lot faster to transfer the same amount as the tablespoon chip. That's the difference between Intel going fast and AMD going slow.


That's a decent analogy but keep in mind that the Intel Core CPUs showing up in ~5 weeks will have fairly large tablespoons.

I realize that. I was just going by the chips that are presently at hand.
June 14, 2006 12:00:34 AM

I'm not sure of this guy's innocence (Dell Ad guy), but i'm give the benefit of the.... you know....Anyway, Since you are looking for a Intel Gaming machine an sound rich (or well fed), and have an affininity towards DELL(you like 'em a lot), GET AN ALIENWARE INTEL CORE 2 DUO based machine in about 2 months and stop asking questions until then. If you have no patience (or common sense), and don't feel like waiting, GET ONE OF THESE Mr. INTELligent YOUR DREAM MACHINE.....well...just yours.
June 14, 2006 12:12:23 AM

Tech,

If you do a search for the posts from this guy they are all in this single thread!

Are you upset about the fact that he wants a Dell or that he wants an Intel or that he has enough money to buy either?

It is his money let em do what he wants.

As far as the Dell Ad guy this person has only responded in this single thread so is that a problem too?

As I said before, get over yourselves and get over Dell. People buy them and will continue to buy them. He was not trying to make YOU buy them now was he?

People all over the world make decisions like this daily and some without taking the time to come to a forum to ask for help! At least he made that effort.

Sheeeesh!
June 14, 2006 12:15:17 AM

In fact Tech,

You only have 4 posts on these forums and you come into this thread to bash?

Maybe you are a competitor to Dell?

See I can speculate without any content too!
June 14, 2006 3:31:06 AM

Quote:
In fact Tech,

You only have 4 posts on these forums and you come into this thread to bash?

Maybe you are a competitor to Dell?

See I can speculate without any content too!


If it comes to speculating, I wonder if this Tech guy is someone who was banned and is now sneaking back in to bash people. Other than that, if he wants a Dell, an ABS, or whatever, why should anyone get after him for wanting it? Everybody makes their decisions on what they want, and its their money that they spend, no one else's.

So what if "Imlost" wants some advice in buying his Dell? That at least shows more brains than someone who orders blindly and then comes to regret his decision.
June 14, 2006 4:03:52 AM

I would not buy a gaming rig from Dell. Not that Dell is bad or nothing. I got a Dell and it's just dandy. But Intel chips are alot slower then AMD chips for gaming. The sweet spot is the AMD 64 4000+. It's nearly the faster chip out there and doesnt break the bank. You can go alienware and they can build it for you. Anything more then the 4000+ is overkill and just a waste of money. The FX chips from AMD perform identical to the 4000+.
June 14, 2006 4:22:56 AM

Quote:
You can go alienware and they can build it for you.


I guess you did'nt get the memo, Alienware got Dell'ed, Dellienware 4TW !
June 14, 2006 2:48:50 PM

Quote:
First place to start is to check the processors you are interested in the cpu charts. Use the gaming benchmarks, since that is what you are interested in. The pentium D is a dual core pentium 4. Another thing to keep in mind is that Intel is releasing the successor to the pentium next month, and it looks to be a killer. So if you can wait 1.5-2 months, you will probably be very satisfied with the result.


dont ever mention that name again for conroe

anyhow when conroe comes out (Intel Core II Duo) and when all the prices are set for both AMD and Intel, AMD might be the better buy $$$ wise if they do things right in that perspective; efficency - Intel will own it seems and pure performance aswell, but if AMD's smart they will compete (price wise) between Intels high and low end forcing buyers either way as a good "back for the buck" - its what there good at, but if Intel fills the void of high and low end (which they may have) at a decent price then AMD will have some serious headaches.

But then again fanboys will assist as always.

Perhaps you should learn to read, I did not call the conroe a pentium, I called it the successor to the pentium. In other words what is going to replace the pentium. Just like the pentium was the successor to the 486, and the Athlon was the successor to the k6.
June 16, 2006 10:01:14 PM

Sheesh..?!? Sounds like you sprung a leak somewhere. HA HA HA. I was just funning the guy with banter or whatever, and i bet he got it and you just didn't. ANYWAY, i hope my opinion was well recieved by him, as i did not type a post about what my answer should SOUND like, but i happen to like the AREA 51 that i posted a link to, and i did. If a man says, "I am more confident in INTEL, and DELLS interest me and i want it for GAMING, i am going to point him to an ALIENWARE AREA 51, which i did. What's wrong with what i said or did you not see the link in the post, FAST MOUTH, SLOW BRAIN...HMMM. I'm kidding, if you can't handle some sarcasm, don't let your self-esteem drop so low again. I HOPE HE BUYS THAT DELLIENWARE 51. I'm not a FANBOY or a HATER, i'm a MAN. A BUSY WORKING TECHNICIAN..not saying y'all ain't, but i hardly get the time to post, with customers giving me money, me juggling two women(i'll pick one soon), it's tough(I'M SERIOUS NOW). You guys on TG FORUM teach me new things every day, so i'm not gonna DISS or MISLEAD anyboby,...mkay. IF you can't afford it, but would buy it if you could, why not suggest HE BUY IT and enjoy himself...PEACE. 8)
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