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Why does my colour ink go down when I don't print in colou..

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Anonymous
March 30, 2005 10:53:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I've got an Epson CX5200.
I've got my default printing to be black only.
I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
is low.
I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.

Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??

Thanks.


OM

More about : colour ink print colou

March 30, 2005 7:03:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I've got an Epson CX5200.
> I've got my default printing to be black only.
> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> is low.
> I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
> But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
> catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
> printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>
> Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
Every time that you turn the printer on, it goes through a nozzle check. It
checks all nozzles, and it uses color ink then. The poor dumb printer has
no way of knowing that you only use black ink.
Jim
March 30, 2005 7:21:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'm afraid you have been EPsoned !!!!

Thats one other good reason to move over to HP. I have been very happy since
I threw away my NEW EpsonCX5200 after a head clog on its very 1st ink
change.

You could invest in a chip resetter but I think you would DEFINITELY be
better off with an HP PSC1215... print qualities are exceptionally good on
this model., and you will never have to throw away your printer because of a
clogged head since HP heads are inbuilt in the ink cartridge....



"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I've got an Epson CX5200.
> I've got my default printing to be black only.
> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> is low.
> I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
> But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
> catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
> printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>
> Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM
>
Related resources
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 8:45:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I seems that Epson withtheir power-on nozzle checks, their chips in
cartridges, and other things is trying to extort the maximim is can from
its customers.

As for the R300 that operates the same way, this months issue of
PCWorld is claiming that the R200/300 is very slow, prints poor
business documents, but does offer nice photo prints and is expensive to
run; 2nd to the Lexmark garbage.

The main justification for the R300, in the United States and North
America, is if you MUST print on printable CDs. In Europe, choosing the
IP4000 between the two is a no brainer.

Other than features (HP has more) the Canon IP4000R walked away with the
honors. Of course most do not need the R and the standard IP4000 does fine.

Jim wrote:

>"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>I've got an Epson CX5200.
>>I've got my default printing to be black only.
>>I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
>>is low.
>>I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
>>But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
>>catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
>>printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>>
>>Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>>
>>
>Every time that you turn the printer on, it goes through a nozzle check. It
>checks all nozzles, and it uses color ink then. The poor dumb printer has
>no way of knowing that you only use black ink.
>Jim
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 9:00:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

V wrote:

>I'm afraid you have been EPsoned !!!!
>
>Thats one other good reason to move over to HP. I have been very happy since
>I threw away my NEW EpsonCX5200 after a head clog on its very 1st ink
>change.
>
>

Not so fast. For business document I do recommend HP. My HP990CSE that
I use for business has a reasonable fast Draft that is almost as good as
my Canon IP4000 standard quality. The HP Normal quality is better than
the Canon IP4000 High quality.

But that is where the end of the line is. Canon's draft is much faster
(2 times or more) but real drafty looking but readable. This is good
for printing driving directions from Mapquest. The IP4000 standard text
is about as fast as the HP draft mode and the results are very
acceptable but not as good. The IP4000 does produce outstanding Photos.
It prints equal to or better than HP Photo Printers, is more convenient
in that there are no cartridge swaps, and is much faster. It also has
twin paper feeds. I use the bottom cassette for plain paper and use the
top auto sheet feeder for Photo paper. I do feed one sheet at a time.
Both of my printers are full duplex.

If I could not afford to have 2 printers, I would choose the Canon due
to its ability for better Photos and dual paper feeds. It is also
cheaper to run. The new HP1200 business printer does not have
disposable print heads built into the ink cartridge. It dos have
replaceable print heads but like the Canon are prohibitively expense.
Unlike the Canon, they are individual print heads and HP says they have
a limited life span. They print out how much is estimated to be left in
them by pressing a button.

>You could invest in a chip resetter but I think you would DEFINITELY be
>better off with an HP PSC1215... print qualities are exceptionally good on
>this model., and you will never have to throw away your printer because of a
>clogged head since HP heads are inbuilt in the ink cartridge....
>
>
>
>"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>I've got an Epson CX5200.
>>I've got my default printing to be black only.
>>I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
>>is low.
>>I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
>>But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
>>catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
>>printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>>
>>Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>OM
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 9:39:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

OM <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've got an Epson CX5200.
> I've got my default printing to be black only.
> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> is low.

How many children have you ? :-)

Alain
Anonymous
March 30, 2005 11:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Alain191" <alain@alussinan.org> wrote in message
news:1gu8zoa.107v53focj8xhN%alain@alussinan.org...
> OM <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've got an Epson CX5200.
> > I've got my default printing to be black only.
> > I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> > is low.
>
> How many children have you ? :-)
>
> Alain

HA! I was thinking the same. They will print out just about anything that
looks "pretty" or has "pretty" colors. Fortunately, I took my photo printer
out of the network sharing loop.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:33:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Yes, probably there is something you don't understand.

There are two possibilities. One, you are printing your monochrome
grey/black images with a mixture of black and colored inks (in theory,
mixing the CM and Y inks make black or greys (it's called "process black
or grey in the industry, because CMY are called process colors).

However, even if you are only using your black ink for the monochrome
you are printing, you need to understand how Epson printers work. Each
time you turn the printer on, each time it does a times head cleaning or
you request one, and each time one or more cartridges are replaced. the
printer goes through a vacuum/purge cycle which pulls some ink from the
head's nozzle holes. Since the purging system has only one cap, which
covers all the ink heads, during any and all of the above mentioned
processes, ink from every head is drawn out and discarded, even if you
are not printing with those colors.

Art

OM wrote:

> I've got an Epson CX5200.
> I've got my default printing to be black only.
> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> is low.
> I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
> But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
> catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
> printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>
> Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM
>
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:0TT2e.143598$fc4.11337@edtnps89...
[..]
> Since the purging system has only one cap, which covers all the ink heads,
> during any and all of the above mentioned processes, ink from every head
> is drawn out and discarded, even if you are not printing with those
> colors.
>

Although, in theory at least (and from what I've seen of the Epson head
construction) it should be possible to activate the nozzles of the colours
that don't need priming and block the ink flow through those channels (or
partly at least).

I doubt Epson actually do that though - and there may be just as many
reasons why that would be a bad idea as their are in favour of it.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:48:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Yes it is the way Epson says it has to work but it seems that Epson goes
out of their way more than the rest of the thieves to maximize their
revenues and minimize you ink usage. This just confirm what the Canon
Rep told me in front of the Epson Rep at Frys who did not deny this was
indeed the way Epson worked.

Another reason I bought Canon.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Yes, probably there is something you don't understand.
>
> There are two possibilities. One, you are printing your monochrome
> grey/black images with a mixture of black and colored inks (in theory,
> mixing the CM and Y inks make black or greys (it's called "process
> black or grey in the industry, because CMY are called process colors).
>
> However, even if you are only using your black ink for the monochrome
> you are printing, you need to understand how Epson printers work.
> Each time you turn the printer on, each time it does a times head
> cleaning or you request one, and each time one or more cartridges are
> replaced. the printer goes through a vacuum/purge cycle which pulls
> some ink from the head's nozzle holes. Since the purging system has
> only one cap, which covers all the ink heads, during any and all of
> the above mentioned processes, ink from every head is drawn out and
> discarded, even if you are not printing with those colors.
>
> Art
>
> OM wrote:
>
>> I've got an Epson CX5200.
>> I've got my default printing to be black only.
>> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
>> is low.
>> I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
>> But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
>> catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
>> printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>>
>> Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> OM
>>
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 10:55:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes it is the way Epson says it has to work but it seems that Epson goes
> out of their way more than the rest of the thieves to maximize their
> revenues and minimize you ink usage. This just confirm what the Canon
> Rep told me in front of the Epson Rep at Frys who did not deny this was
> indeed the way Epson worked.

Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
Epson
get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Not
to mention the endless, but profitable, head cleaning/unblocking cycles.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:40:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

How much different do you think Canon is? Of for that matter HP?

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:

>On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Yes it is the way Epson says it has to work but it seems that Epson goes
>>out of their way more than the rest of the thieves to maximize their
>>revenues and minimize you ink usage. This just confirm what the Canon
>>Rep told me in front of the Epson Rep at Frys who did not deny this was
>>indeed the way Epson worked.
>>
>>
>
>Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
>Epson
>get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Not
>to mention the endless, but profitable, head cleaning/unblocking cycles.
>
>
April 1, 2005 2:34:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I am pretty sure that I have had alot more print outs from my HP ink
cartridge, although the HP ink cartridge is smaller than the EPSON. I can't
comment on Canon since I have never owned a Canon but compared to EPSON, HP
lasts atleast twice as long and prints twice as much and that is from my
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in owning both an Epson and an HP.





..
"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WmY2e.5254$FN4.3266@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> How much different do you think Canon is? Of for that matter HP?
>
> ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Yes it is the way Epson says it has to work but it seems that Epson goes
> >>out of their way more than the rest of the thieves to maximize their
> >>revenues and minimize you ink usage. This just confirm what the Canon
> >>Rep told me in front of the Epson Rep at Frys who did not deny this was
> >>indeed the way Epson worked.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
> >Epson
> >get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to the bank.
Not
> >to mention the endless, but profitable, head cleaning/unblocking cycles.
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:36:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

> How much different do you think Canon is? Of for that matter HP?

> >
> >Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
> >Epson get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to
> >the bank. Not to mention the endless, but profitable, head
> >cleaning/unblocking cycles.
> >

Because it is a cartel. They all make components for each other
and use the same sources for motors, gears and other parts.
If you have a bad experience with one you buy another, from a
different member of the same cartel.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:36:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

<ato_zee@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Rf6dnTOme5L45tHfRVnysQ@pipex.net...

> Because it is a cartel. They all make components for each other
> and use the same sources for motors, gears and other parts.
> If you have a bad experience with one you buy another, from a
> different member of the same cartel.

This is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have seen in this newsgroup.
Canon, Epson and HP hardly cooperate and/or make components for each other. As
for buying motors from the same sources, this may be the case, as there are
very few manufacturers that can supply parts in the quantities required.

If the printer companies really had a cartel you would not be paying less than
$100 for printers with the capabilities available today.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 9:41:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I do not believe your idea would work, from my review of Epson's patent
diagrams and other resources, the nozzles and channels are never
blocked. The piezo system, ejects ink through the nozzle by flexing
rapidly when in active mode creating enough force in the ink to move it
out the nozzle, with the help of gravity. However, the pressure created
is minimal, which is why a slight clog or even an air lock can keep ink
from flowing (it instead just circulates around in the chamber.

The cleaning purge process is not active on part of the head. In fact,
during the vast majority of it, the head just sits there. Instead, the
purge takes place by the outside of the head nozzles having a vacuum
applied to pull ink through the nozzles and out. The only way to
selectively purge one color would be to have a separate purge cap and
vacuum pump for each head area, or a mobile seal/cap, which would
probably create other problems. The older models had a separate black
and color cap and purge pump. Newer models have only one universal unit.

Art

Ivor Floppy wrote:

> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:0TT2e.143598$fc4.11337@edtnps89...
> [..]
>
>>Since the purging system has only one cap, which covers all the ink heads,
>>during any and all of the above mentioned processes, ink from every head
>>is drawn out and discarded, even if you are not printing with those
>>colors.
>>
>
>
> Although, in theory at least (and from what I've seen of the Epson head
> construction) it should be possible to activate the nozzles of the colours
> that don't need priming and block the ink flow through those channels (or
> partly at least).
>
> I doubt Epson actually do that though - and there may be just as many
> reasons why that would be a bad idea as their are in favour of it.
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:10:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

These generalizations are just that. Just about every Epson and HP
printer model use different ink cartridges holding differing amounts of
ink. The Epson inks should, in theory, go further per liquid measure,
because they do not need to be boiled or heated to be printed with.
They are printed directly as they are formulated in terms of liquid content.

Art

V wrote:

> I am pretty sure that I have had alot more print outs from my HP ink
> cartridge, although the HP ink cartridge is smaller than the EPSON. I can't
> comment on Canon since I have never owned a Canon but compared to EPSON, HP
> lasts atleast twice as long and prints twice as much and that is from my
> PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in owning both an Epson and an HP.
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:WmY2e.5254$FN4.3266@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>How much different do you think Canon is? Of for that matter HP?
>>
>>ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yes it is the way Epson says it has to work but it seems that Epson goes
>>>>out of their way more than the rest of the thieves to maximize their
>>>>revenues and minimize you ink usage. This just confirm what the Canon
>>>>Rep told me in front of the Epson Rep at Frys who did not deny this was
>>>>indeed the way Epson worked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
>>>Epson
>>>get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to the bank.
>
> Not
>
>>>to mention the endless, but profitable, head cleaning/unblocking cycles.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:12:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'd be quite surprised that it is a cartel. They use very differing
technologies and designs and although there may be some collusion
regarding business model used, they seem to be fiercely competitive in
terms of technologies and designs.

Art

ato_zee@hotmail.com wrote:

> On 31-Mar-2005, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>How much different do you think Canon is? Of for that matter HP?
>
>
>>>Rip-off ink prices plus if a 3rd party ink (or their own) blocks the jets
>>>Epson get to sell another printer, they are laughing all the way to
>>>the bank. Not to mention the endless, but profitable, head
>>>cleaning/unblocking cycles.
>>>
>
>
> Because it is a cartel. They all make components for each other
> and use the same sources for motors, gears and other parts.
> If you have a bad experience with one you buy another, from a
> different member of the same cartel.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Exactly.

Diamonds are sold by cartels. The stones are nearly a dime a dozen in
availability and can be produced synthetically so no one can tell the
difference... what keeps the price up is the very limited distribution
of the stones, advertising campaigns that suggest "diamonds are forever"
and should not be resold, that having stones rest and used by others is
"bad luck" etc.

If inket printers were produced by cartels, few of us would be able to
afford them.

Art


Bob Headrick wrote:

> <ato_zee@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Rf6dnTOme5L45tHfRVnysQ@pipex.net...
>
>
>>Because it is a cartel. They all make components for each other
>>and use the same sources for motors, gears and other parts.
>>If you have a bad experience with one you buy another, from a
>>different member of the same cartel.
>
>
> This is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have seen in this newsgroup.
> Canon, Epson and HP hardly cooperate and/or make components for each other. As
> for buying motors from the same sources, this may be the case, as there are
> very few manufacturers that can supply parts in the quantities required.
>
> If the printer companies really had a cartel you would not be paying less than
> $100 for printers with the capabilities available today.
>
> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>
>
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 12:40:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Crs3e.147610$gJ3.144633@clgrps13...
> These generalizations are just that. Just about every Epson and HP printer
> model use different ink cartridges holding differing amounts of ink. The
> Epson inks should, in theory, go further per liquid measure, because they do
> not need to be boiled or heated to be printed with.

This is a bit misleading - the ink is not boiled away in the HP design. A tiny
layer of ink is vaporized, pushing the ink droplet out the nozzles. The vapor
bubble very quickly collapses back into liquid inside the printhead.

The pages per ml will be more strongly impacted by the dye (or pigment) loads,
the dot gains of the particular ink and media, the print modes (how the ink is
applied, how it is layered to make millions of colors, etc). Servicing also
has a large impact on real pages out. Different systems have different method
and requirements for the amount and frequency of servicing required.

From the customer standpoint the important factors are not drops per ml but
pages per $ (or insert local currency here) and perhaps pages per cartridge
which takes into account the inconvenience of having to replace cartridges..
Currently this is a bit difficult to compare without some homework, as
different manufacturers use different test methods, samples and definitions.
One manufacturer specifies a 5% page, but the fine print notes that the
8.5"x11" page has 1" borders on all four sides - the are printed at 5% is only
a 6.5" x 9" page. There is currently an ISO standard being developed that will
allow more direct comparisons of page yields, with controlled standards and
reporting methods. This effort is currently expected to be ratified by the end
of 2005.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking or my employer HP
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 4:13:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Exactly.
>
> Diamonds are sold by cartels. The stones are nearly a dime a dozen in
> availability and can be produced synthetically so no one can tell the
> difference... what keeps the price up is the very limited distribution
> of the stones, advertising campaigns that suggest "diamonds are
> forever" and should not be resold, that having stones rest and used by
> others is "bad luck" etc.
>
> If inket printers were produced by cartels, few of us would be able to
> afford them.


Hey now Arthur, well all buy gas for our cars that are controlled by
cartels who rip us off without a kiss. :'( 

>
> Art
>
>
> Bob Headrick wrote:
>
>> <ato_zee@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Rf6dnTOme5L45tHfRVnysQ@pipex.net...
>>
>>
>>> Because it is a cartel. They all make components for each other
>>> and use the same sources for motors, gears and other parts.
>>> If you have a bad experience with one you buy another, from a
>>> different member of the same cartel.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is one of the most bizarre suggestions I have seen in this
>> newsgroup. Canon, Epson and HP hardly cooperate and/or make
>> components for each other. As for buying motors from the same
>> sources, this may be the case, as there are very few manufacturers
>> that can supply parts in the quantities required.
>>
>> If the printer companies really had a cartel you would not be paying
>> less than $100 for printers with the capabilities available today.
>>
>> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 9:28:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I agree with most of your comments. Ultimately, we need a standard that
is agreed upon within the industry, and that should have happened long
ago, IMHO.

I was wondering, however, about one thing in your explanation, regarding
how the thermal technology works in terms of projecting the ink forward.
I understand that the ink is heated "behind" the most forward liquid
ink column to a point where the solvents are vaporized, to create an
expanding gas to propel the ink in front of it forward and out the
nozzle, but then what happens to that heated gas bubble? Does it have
enough time to get cooled so it goes back through change of state into
liquid form so there is no evaporation of the ink components? I could
see how that might work if the heating point is far enough behind the
ink column.

I find the description you provided on one manufacturer's 5% standard
amazing, well maybe outrageous would be a better term! The 5% (per
color) measurement is reasonable, I suppose, since many manufacturers
have used this as a standard, but I had no idea that anyone was
interpreting that 5% coverage to only be in a margined restricted area.
That seems quite "creative" shall we say, (I'd use the word
misleading). With those "standards" a manufacturer could decide the
area of 5% coverage could be as large or small as they wished. How
about a real 5% coverage over the full paper. Then, if some
manufacturer preferred to use a sample that was 10% coverage over 50% of
the area it would still be the same thing (or nearly so) if they felt
that more accurately represented the usage their clients would have.
Allowing manufacturers to decide the area of the paper that would
contain the 5% coverage of a letter sized page is not any sort of
standard, and makes the whole comparative process a bit of a joke.

And, as others have mentioned, some type of long range study should be
done to include and average initial purge, cleaning cycles, cartridge
change cycles, individual ink cartridges versus ganged cartridges,
quality of text or image, and so on, so we, as consumers, can get some
realistic numbers to evaluate.

This is similar to the problem that occurred with flatbed scanners and
"resolution" where some manufacturers would use outrageous interpolated
number to advertise the resolution of the scanner. HP was one of the
companies that handled this one properly and conservatively, using
interpolated numbers no higher than twice optical, and I commended then
for their honest use of the numbers. Some companies literally suggested
interpolated resolution values of 10 x the optical, which anyone who
understands interpolation, recognizes completely degrades the image,
since that type of interpolation brings in massive errors.


Art

Bob Headrick wrote:

> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:Crs3e.147610$gJ3.144633@clgrps13...
>
>>These generalizations are just that. Just about every Epson and HP printer
>>model use different ink cartridges holding differing amounts of ink. The
>>Epson inks should, in theory, go further per liquid measure, because they do
>>not need to be boiled or heated to be printed with.
>
>
> This is a bit misleading - the ink is not boiled away in the HP design. A tiny
> layer of ink is vaporized, pushing the ink droplet out the nozzles. The vapor
> bubble very quickly collapses back into liquid inside the printhead.
>
> The pages per ml will be more strongly impacted by the dye (or pigment) loads,
> the dot gains of the particular ink and media, the print modes (how the ink is
> applied, how it is layered to make millions of colors, etc). Servicing also
> has a large impact on real pages out. Different systems have different method
> and requirements for the amount and frequency of servicing required.
>
> From the customer standpoint the important factors are not drops per ml but
> pages per $ (or insert local currency here) and perhaps pages per cartridge
> which takes into account the inconvenience of having to replace cartridges..
> Currently this is a bit difficult to compare without some homework, as
> different manufacturers use different test methods, samples and definitions.
> One manufacturer specifies a 5% page, but the fine print notes that the
> 8.5"x11" page has 1" borders on all four sides - the are printed at 5% is only
> a 6.5" x 9" page. There is currently an ISO standard being developed that will
> allow more direct comparisons of page yields, with controlled standards and
> reporting methods. This effort is currently expected to be ratified by the end
> of 2005.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Headrick, not speaking or my employer HP
>
>
Anonymous
April 3, 2005 10:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I regularly run into people who are trying to decide on a inkjet printer
in stores. I ask what their intended use is, and I often suggest they
buy a laser monochrome when they tell me they want to make photos at
home and have no knowledge of printing color images and aren't
interested in learning about it either. I suggest they use local photo
labs, and save some money doing so.

And, BTW, for the people who still want a color inkjet printer, I have
probably pointed them as often to other brands as to Epson, depending
upon their needs and proclivities.

Art


measekite wrote:

> I disagree. Most of the non hobbiest users know little about
> computers. They buy a printer that will not only print photos but
> letters and other things they develop. They only want one printer.
> They print photos because they want the convenience and they do indeed
> pay for the convenience.
> Those who have digital cameras are recognizing that they can get very
> good pics by taking a lot of them. Then they only print the best of
> what their ability can do. Most are printing 4x6 and putting them in an
> album. Some do a letter size to hand. Keep in mind that these are not
> the same type of people you run into in this newsgroup.
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Right now anyone who is making a lot of 4x6" prints at home (and I
>> question somewhat the logic of that since here in Canada the cost of a
>> downloaded digital print is between $.20 and $29 cents each from a
>> real wet lab) the best inkjet alternative is the Epson PictureMate.
>> This unit takes up almost no desk space, and is designed to take a
>> printer set inclusive of a cartridge and 100 sheets of 4x6 glossy
>> paper for about $39 US or less )or $.39 per print). It is guaranteed
>> by Epson that should you run out of ink prior to the paper, just send
>> back the extra paper to them, and they will refund you $.39 each blank
>> paper.
>>
>> The main advantage is this uses Ultrachrome inks, which are archival
>> and glossy.
>>
>> The printer cannot print larger than 4 x 6" so that is what is
>> designed to do, and that's all.
>>
>> Art
>>
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 10:38:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I own an Epson R200.

Over 90% of my printing is just black text.
I have printed less than 25 colour (colour & text setting on matte
paper) pages.
My printer is always on.

Three days ago my light cyan started flagging up less than 20% left
and today, after printing only in black during the intervening period,
my yellow has started to be flagged as running low so it can't be due
to startup usage.

I feel cheated. I might as well have printed everything in colour.

DkA


"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
> I've got an Epson CX5200.
> I've got my default printing to be black only.
> I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
> is low.
> I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
> But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
> catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
> printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>
> Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:57:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Your printer does purge cycles if you turn it on and off or not. They
are times into the firmware. Your printer has one purge pump and one
cleaning station. All the heads are purged together. The purging
process uses less ink that printing "all your documents in color" but
you have a color printer there, and it is designed for printing in color.

The very first set of ink cartridges uses up a fair amount of ink on the
very first set-up purge. The heads are purged of both air and a special
liquid that is used to keep the heads in good shape while in storage.
Your next set of cartridges will last longer, but you might as well do
some color printing if you have a color printer. If you only print in
black and white, I suggest a laser printer for speed, cost and image
permanence.

You do mention you did some color printing. Photo images use up quite a
bit of ink.

Art


Fablanta wrote:

> I own an Epson R200.
>
> Over 90% of my printing is just black text.
> I have printed less than 25 colour (colour & text setting on matte
> paper) pages.
> My printer is always on.
>
> Three days ago my light cyan started flagging up less than 20% left
> and today, after printing only in black during the intervening period,
> my yellow has started to be flagged as running low so it can't be due
> to startup usage.
>
> I feel cheated. I might as well have printed everything in colour.
>
> DkA
>
>
> "OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message news:<1112194422.227152.240490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
>
>>I've got an Epson CX5200.
>>I've got my default printing to be black only.
>>I'll get to a stage where the ink levels on one of my colour catridges
>>is low.
>>I'll think: heck I'm OK... I'm just printing in black!
>>But no... after printing X amount of times in black... the colour
>>catridge will go down as well... until it gets so low that further
>>printing is not possible without changing the colour cartridge.
>>
>>Is there something I'm mising and don't understand??
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>OM
!