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[illuminatirex]

Deleted all info, some people are 2 biased on certain topics, others are just pathetic morons that like to bash other.





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[dwave]

I am planning on sticking with XP when Vista comes out, I don't see any reason to change over to it. Of course this is comming from a person who didn't switch from 98se until 2 years ago. (Just because I really liked win98. Had to switch because of hardware.)

 

[uber_g]

Had to switch because of hardware.)

hmm i think ure going to have to switch to vista, -becuase of hardware

-DX10
-64 bit computing
-whole other stuff to mention


i plan to move to vista , when the time is right

 

[pengwin]

d/l beta 2 as i type.


ill let u guys know how my Mobility X300 preforms when i get vista installed.

 

[macer1]

LOL vista is still in beta stages, and your compairing it to a fully developed XP.

wow someone is off there meds, even windows XP x64 edition isnt 100% ready for games.

Its NOT microsofts falt on the games front, its the drivers that need to be optimized.

*.* I never thought there would be a day when i defended microsoft.... YIKES *.*

 

[captaincharisma]

Man not another one complaining about bugs and performance in software that is supposed to be for TESTING prurposes ONLY. why don't you do us all a favor and stay off these forms until you can figure out somthing intellegent to say or talk about.

 

[FITCamaro]

Seriously. You're comparing XP, a fully developed product with mature drivers for every device, to a completely beta product with no developed drivers.

Quick your bitching and go away until the OS is actually out and ready. I'm not saying I like Vista that much at this point, but I'm not going to complete my judgement on it until its actually ready and in stores.

Retard + beta software = whiny bitch on forums

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

I agree. In addition to XP Pro (32-bit) and Ubuntu x-64 I'll make space for Vista Beta 2. See how it performs on my 7900 GT and 2 GB of RAM (once I buy my new machine, of course) - and I'll be testing with 3DMark, Guild Wars, Doom 3, FEAR, WoW, UT2004, FarCry, etc.

 

[dwave]

Oh, I am sure I will, but not any time soon. I am sure for the next 2 years I will still be with XP. Seeing as how I am a gamer I will probably switch when it is time to upgrade again. I go around every two years give or take a few months.

 

[DrBlofeld]

Seriously. You're comparing XP, a fully developed product with mature drivers for every device, to a completely beta product with no developed drivers.

Quick your bitching and go away until the OS is actually out and ready. I'm not saying I like Vista that much at this point, but I'm not going to complete my judgement on it until its actually ready and in stores.

Retard + beta software = whiny bitch on forums

Actually, he does have a point. Micro$oft is planning on dropping direct OpenGL support completely from Vista in an effort to make Direct X more popular. It will only support OpenGL by remapping function calls to DirectX. Additionally, I think Vista will completely drop support from OpenGL extensions. What this means is that an application written in OpenGL will either not run or will run at severely reduced frame rates.

What you need to do to determine if this is an OpenGL problem or due to the fact that it is a beta is to run only Direct X benchmarks.

I do agree that with your last comment though.

 

[uber_g]

 

[dwave]

Guess I should have put, "I don't see any reason to change over to it yet."

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

Microsoft had better keep OpenGL support. If it's true that they'll drop it, I may drop Windows completely.

What will they get rid of next? GTK? JRE/SDK? The iPod????

Heaven forbid something works that isn't Microsoft-made.

 

[JohnWeldt]

I will wait for service pack 1, maybe even two before I will upgrade. Give them time to work a few bugs out.

Can you imagine installing windows with out a SP?

 

[FITCamaro]

Considering most professional CAD and 3D design software uses OpenGL, I highly doubt Microsoft will have poor support for it. Would alienate them from a huge market and force them over to their competitor Apple.

The point is the OS is not yet even close to ready for gaming benchmarks and he's complaining about a drop in frames. There will most likely be a performance hit on DX9 code since it will be emulated through DX10. But the idea is that machines are getting faster and can handle it.

Besides even in the worst case you're still talking about completely playable framerates except for B&W2 but its not playable on the XP machine either. And without 4x AA they got barely higher framerates on Vista than XP.

 

[benrr]

There is no reason for switching yet honestly I am not happy with this beta version and I am running this on a PC that is less then a week old so I would think it would utilise atleast the potention of what I have .. I am sticking with XP until they show me some higher fps in games and real 64bit advantages other then browser upgrades for faster porn surfin...

 

[BadTrip]

I very rarely agree with any of your post but that made me laugh sooo hard.

Retard + beta software = whiny bitch on forums

definitely post of the day :trophy:

 

[illuminatirex]

are u calling me a retard? i would say ur one, im comparing vistas BETA as i said with xin xp info , and to be honest i dotn c anytthing special about vista i think honestly that the hupe about it its way overrated, and buying a new os just because one can have a different visual look of the icons, with some aditional things which can be obtained for free( shareware, freeware) is RETARDED, to be honest i c no point in upgrading to vista, im shoor there will be a way to get dx10 performance on xp somehow (or atleast quite close) i posted the information for those who would like to c hows vista doing, not everyone has the beta installed , and im shoor there are those who would like to know that so far as gaming goes, booting the pc, and other details, vbista is far behind xp, and honestly if i would c any beter results in the beta opposed to xp i would be happy about it, but seeing that its falling behind so mutch even thou it has about waht 4/5 months to be released, i doubt that vista in itselfe (whithout any service packs, and updates) will be such a great product.

 

[captaincharisma]

are u calling me a retard? i would say ur one, im comparing vistas BETA as i said with xin xp info , and to be honest i dotn c anytthing special about vista i think honestly that the hupe about it its way overrated, and buying a new os just because one can have a different visual look of the icons, with some aditional things which can be obtained for free( shareware, freeware) is RETARDED, to be honest i c no point in upgrading to vista, im shoor there will be a way to get dx10 performance on xp somehow (or atleast quite close) i posted the information for those who would like to c hows vista doing, not everyone has the beta installed , and im shoor there are those who would like to know that so far as gaming goes, booting the pc, and other details, vbista is far behind xp, and honestly if i would c any beter results in the beta opposed to xp i would be happy about it, but seeing that its falling behind so mutch even thou it has about waht 4/5 months to be released, i doubt that vista in itselfe (whithout any service packs, and updates) will be such a great product.

seriosly dude who cares, if your a hardcore gamer then you should know you never use any software that is beta or alpha becuase you will know there are lots of bugs and defenetly no performance. And you compareing it with XP? how can you compare and unfinished product with a product that has been out for 5 years!. so stop whining

 

[pengwin]

I very rarely agree with any of your post but that made me laugh sooo hard.

Retard + beta software = whiny bitch on forums

definitely post of the day :trophy:


i 2nd that

 

[hball]

Considering most professional CAD and 3D design software uses OpenGL, I highly doubt Microsoft will have poor support for it. Would alienate them from a huge market and force them over to their competitor Apple.

The point is, is that is exactly what Microsoft intends to do with Vista (ie drop support for OpenGL). That comes straight from Microsoft.

I agree with everybody else, that is is useless to complain about an operating system that is still in Beta. There will be plenty of time to complain about it when it comes out . . . all the way until they have a SP2 for it

hball

 

[TheMaster]

Considering most professional CAD and 3D design software uses OpenGL, I highly doubt Microsoft will have poor support for it. Would alienate them from a huge market and force them over to their competitor Apple.

The point is, is that is exactly what Microsoft intends to do with Vista (ie drop support for OpenGL). That comes straight from Microsoft.

I agree with everybody else, that is is useless to complain about an operating system that is still in Beta. There will be plenty of time to complain about it when it comes out . . . all the way until they have a SP2 for it

hball

Hmm first ATI processor in Xbox now microsoft is getting rid of opengl... nvidia's most prised possesion.
Looks to me like ATI made a deal with the devil.

 

[DrBlofeld]

Considering most professional CAD and 3D design software uses OpenGL, I highly doubt Microsoft will have poor support for it. Would alienate them from a huge market and force them over to their competitor Apple.

Here is a quote from the article in Tom's Hardware:

Article

We are still very concerned about the future security of OpenGL products, in conjunction with the upcoming operating system Windows Vista. Microsoft made the political decision to no longer directly support the OpenGL interface - Vista only maps the OpenGL functions using a DirectX emulator, which could mean a considerable loss in performance. Moreover, the range of functions is restricted to OpenGL 1.4, while today's standard is already 2.0, and manufacturer-specific extensions will no longer be taken into account. Even if ATi and Nvidia were to kowtow to the pressure from Microsoft, it is not exactly useful to them unless the developers of professional applications play along.

 

[alextheblue]

The point is, is that is exactly what Microsoft intends to do with Vista (ie drop support for OpenGL). That comes straight from Microsoft.

From the article linked to in the first post:

It's also worth noting that with our OpenGL title, Doom 3, we did not encounter any issues other than the normal performance slowdown. There had been some concern earlier about how using a full OpenGL client driver will force Vista to disable the desktop compositing engine since OpenGL takes full control of the GPU, and that GPU makers may switch to a slower OpenGL wrapper for Direct3D to keep the compositing engine working. While firing up Doom 3 did indeed disable the DCE, it's not a problem since Doom 3 is a full screen game that doesn't even normally allow Alt+Tabbing. OpenGL engines may not be as popular as they once were (largely in part to the slower adoption of the Doom 3 engine), but between the gaming market and the professional workstation market, both of which desire a full-performance OpenGL implementation, it doesn't seem like OpenGL is going to suffer on Vista as much as earlier feared.

So it seems to me that it is up to the GPU makers to make the OpenGL decisions and write the drivers. Microsoft themselves may not support OpenGL, as is evident by the lack of an OpenGL compositing engine, but that doesn't mean they are stopping anyone from writing drivers that understand OGL and can run such programs. I don't know what the GPU vendors will do when it comes to windowed OpenGL apps that require maximum speed, but I also don't personally care too much. Anything I run that is both OpenGL and requires speed is full screen anyway.

Finally, as you pointed out it is a beta, and so are the drivers for it. Especially the x64 drivers. It's going to take some serious work out of the ATI and Nvidia driver teams to significantly improve performance.

 

[FITCamaro]

Yes and that was before. Since the February CTP of Vista, OpenGL is now able to run without going through D3D. The only thing is that it will not be able to use the Aeroglass effects for programs run in windowed mode. This does not effect games unless they can be run in windowed mode and even then, who gives a crap.

Proof:

http://www.mcadonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=73

http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2006/02/22/537624.aspx

http://www.gamedev.net/columns/events/gdc2006/article.asp?id=233


No actual information here just several references to the fact itself.
http://www.opengl.org/news/categories/C1/