The END for SLI & Crossfire.

With ATI and Nvidia moving towards dual-GPU does it mean it's the end for SLI & Crossfire setup?

dual-GPU consumes lesser power and the results are almost equal to two cards. In fact everyone knows that SLI & Crossfire has never been too sucessful with only 5-30% improvement in most games.

Thats what everyone seems to be saying, that SLI and Crossfire will be gone soon..... ok maybe not gone but unprefered and not worth the money

edit: ok my main point is will dual chip Graphic card(7950) be the prefered choice over two Graphic(7900 x2) cards one day. Considering all the benefits.
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  1. Dual GPU is the same as SLI. Just on one PCI-E slot. Yes, it uses little less power, but performance is about equal. It's little better in some cases. but dual GPU is SLI and Crossfire.
  2. Ummm. Who else have you seen say that?
  3. Its not supprising that SLI slots will be intergrated into one card that was spoken of by hardware vendors I cannot remember if it was toms or where but I did read of it a few months ago I believe it was ati and nvidia mentioning the sli dual graphic even quad. SLI was a new thing presented to us and like all hardware similar like the slot 1 processor something new comes. Thats the history of hardware in almost everything now. Refrase SLI it wont change but needing two graphic cards to use SLI will change
  4. Quote:
    dual-GPU consumes lesser power and the results are almost equal to two cards. In fact everyone knows that SLI & Crossfire has never been too sucessful with only 5-20% improvement in most games.


    Uh... I'm not 100% sure about crossfire, but I know in most games, sli is at least 50% performance gain over a single card when cpu is not bottleneck.
  5. I did refrase the remark of SLI this will be intergated into a single card with dual chips
  6. Quote:

    Thats what everyone seems to be saying, that SLI and Crossfire will be gone soon.....


    who's everyone? 8O

    if anything
    SLI and Crossfire have just begun.
    the architecture may change.
    but dont look for it to drop off the face of the planet just yet.
    :wink:
  7. So you agree that the 7950 ends the sli crossfire trend
    or are you saying that it becomes redundent?
  8. Quote:
    Uh... I'm not 100% sure about crossfire, but I know in most games, sli is at least 50% performance gain over a single card when cpu is not bottleneck.

    Not quite. 1600x1200 resolution is the minumum you must play at to gain benefits from SLI. It's not guaranteed that SLI will give any performance boost. Most games don't see improvements.
  9. No I'm just stating the facts of hardware crossfire will change you can bet on that here is a good read for ati to compete with nvidia's new cores they have too I like both card but history of hardware proves that something new comes from someone than everyone changes
    http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=11345
    if i was favor of ati for nvida i would not gave the link or nvida for ati
  10. you bring up an interesting point.
    ati's response should be quite impressive.
    If anything the intoduction of the 7950 is more of an uternitive to sli than a replacement.
    we shall see
    in any case
    waiting to purchase the next graphics solutution may be as antisipated as the wait for conroe.
  11. Yes the conroe is sounding real handsome I wont buy hardware yet I'm waiting for all this to be bugged out first
  12. I keep buying anyway :lol:
    go figure
  13. Quote:
    Yes the conroe is sounding real handsome I wont buy hardware yet I'm waiting for all this to be bugged out first


    Yeah, but if you are always waiting for the next big thing, and there is always a next generation, when do you buy?

    Myself, I don't game at high enough resolution to make SLI worth it, but I am hoping I can use another card in my crossfire board to go with my X1900 AIW for physics. I doubt it though, since the AIW is its own animal and never works in those types of combos.
  14. Quote:

    dual-GPU consumes lesser power and the results are almost equal to two cards.
    If you're comparing a 7950GX2 to two 7900GTXs which come clocked 150MHz higher per core, then yes it does consume less energy.
    Quote:
    Not quite. 1600x1200 resolution is the minumum you must play at to gain benefits from SLI. It's not guaranteed that SLI will give any performance boost. Most games don't see improvements.
    You're basing this off of what? Owning an SLI I can honestly say I see good performance increases in every game played other than Half-Life2. (Original, Lost Coast and Episode 1 get a pretty good improvement)

    Nearly ALL games receive a boost from SLI and Crossfire. Does that mean it's worth it to pay the extra money for a second card? If it's within your needs, however most people should be fine with a single card.
  15. I did buy just last week 805 and a 7800 because I know they performed well, also I bought the physx that I only used 6 times with the worst ever performance
  16. ok my main point is will dual chip Graphic card(7950) be the prefered choice over two Graphic(7900 x2) cards one day. Considering are the benefits.
  17. you didnt ask that.
    but since you did now.
    one grahics card that competes with either sli or crossfire for half the price can not be ignored.
    I would opt for the winner over the next few months and leave my crossfire slot empty.
    it only makes sense.
    less power and double the performance.
  18. forgive me
    I guess you did ask that :oops:
  19. Thanks, with all that said I will buy 2 7950GX2 instead of 2 7900GTX with my am2 3800+ Single core.
  20. Quote:
    ok my main point is will dual chip Graphic card(7950) be the prefered choice over two Graphic(7900 x2) cards one day. Considering are the benefits.


    Well and really the GF7950 is only halfway there, it's still 2 PCBs on 1 slot. The dual X1600 and dual GF6200 are more like the cards that would be best where it's 1 PCB and 2 chips.

    The cooling arrangement for the GF7950 is a hurdle, whereas the chips side by side allows better cooling, although may currently cause issue with the current power/heat of the top GPUs (putting two X1600 side by side is nothing like 2 GF7900s or X1800/1900s).

    The whole benifit of doubling up is the lower cost per chip, more market segments per chip and the ability to suprass process shrink limitations as well as draw out the lifespan of chips.

    There is little power benifit of dual chip versus more efficient core, but even that hits diminishing returns with process shrinks where you have to overcome crosstalk, etc by increasing voltage/power.
  21. to sum sum up everything u typed, the chances of dual chip GC being the mainstream in the market is possible but chances are low.
  22. Yeah - same as me winning the lottery tonight.
  23. Quote:
    to sum sum up everything u typed, the chances of dual chip GC being the mainstream in the market is possible but chances are low.


    Yeah, but only 'for now under current circumstances', who knows what happens one we start pushing up against 45nm, etc.

    I've mentiond before that getting more transistors on a single chip/wafer is a situation where it might make more sense to have two 350mil trans chips on a single card, then trying to get a flawless 600mil trans (yes I know it's less but think SLi performance is less than 200%) chip on the same cards. That you could also sell a single one as you entry or mid-level means you can sell more chips (helps reduce cost/chip).

    Alot of this depends on developments. If the transition to 90nm had been slow and bug frought, likely dual chip cards would be the way to go, and the focus for new chips would be features more than performance, and then you would simply double them up for the gaming cards. If we couldn't move to 90nm until mid 2007, I'd expect that both nV and ATi would have something like a dual chip GF7800 (110nm), but with added features. Anywhooo that's my personal take on it, really large chips aren't great unless you can get great yields and usually the larger the # of transistors the higher the failure rate, and it's likely more than 2X as much (probably a geometric progression of failure).
  24. It is in nVidia's and ATis best interests to manufacture dual gpu cards rather than SLi or Crossfire because of production and supply costs....they make more profit of just one dual-gpu card.

    This is why dual gpu will take over Sli...though Sli may still exist for the enthusiast market that wants quadcore.
  25. Quote:
    It is in nVidia's and ATis best interests to manufacture dual gpu cards rather than SLi or Crossfire because of production and supply costs....they make more profit of just one dual-gpu card.


    Well other that BBA, all they card about is chips sold regardless of how, board partners make the money on the boards.

    Quote:
    This is why dual gpu will take over Sli...though Sli may still exist for the enthusiast market that wants quadcore.


    The reaon SLi will die is because peopl don't like links nor dongles, multi crad however is different, and while you can fit more than 1 chip on a card, the amount you can put on a board depends alot on power and heat. If you wer to put dual GF7900s on a single board it would have to be a very VERY complex board, thus increasing the cost to board partners. So while these interesting dual solutions make their rounds (primarily as 'proof of concept') you may find the biggest bayer to adoption is the added complexity and cost to the board partners. But as long as it an X+$1 function where it's either more profitable than a dual card solution, or they can profit from even niche production, then it's a strong possibility.

    But remember, right now we have no single PCB top end solution, and until that changes I wouldn't start talking about anything 'taking over'.
  26. Quote:

    But remember, right now we have no single PCB top end solution, and until that changes I wouldn't start talking about anything 'taking over'.


    In a year I think SLi and crossfire will be slipping out of anything seen as mainstream or gamer enthusiasts because people will favor dual GPU rather than dual cards...so yeah i think it will take over.
  27. Can a 7950 be used in a non-sli motherboard?
  28. You have to start before you can take over, and there isn't a single card (PCB) solution for anything more than the light powered chips sofar.
  29. Quote:
    You have to start before you can take over, and there isn't a single card (PCB) solution for anything more than the light powered chips sofar.

    Yeah i guess... I guess i mean if it does what it has shown it is capable of and more solutions are offered then there is no doubt it will take over :)

    Quote:
    Can a 7950 be used in a non-sli motherboard?


    Thats the beauty!! YES!
  30. I believe SLI/Crossfire is just going to move from 2 cores to 4. It is marketed to the extreme gamer and nvidia and ATI are going to be looking for a way to incorporate two dual-gpu cards into one via SLI/Crossfire.

    We have seen the cost to performance ratio of SLI/Crossfire and Nvidia/ATI should be looking for a way to substanially increase performance with this technology. It just isn't worth the money to buy two high performance cards and link them.

    I think the future of SLI/Crossfire will be moving to this quad-core configuration, the challenge is going to be the performance and cost barrier.
  31. You're going to have to redefine your terms, quad core makes no sense, in fact they're moving away from that by unlinking component withn the VPUs.

    However multiple chips/packages on a single PCB may improve, but I still thing that the power and density issue is going to be the biggest barrier (how many layers you gonna make the PCB?
  32. Quote:
    Thanks, with all that said I will buy 2 7950GX2 instead of 2 7900GTX with my am2 3800+ Single core.


    Exactly what I'm looking at. I found the 3800+ for 150 bux yesterday. I really would like to know if that 7950gx2 can do quad SLI though. I still havn't researched this...
  33. Quote:
    ok my main point is will dual chip Graphic card(7950) be the prefered choice over two Graphic(7900 x2) cards one day.


    Sounds like yours is an nvidia-only world. But it ain't mine. You can have your 7950, but don't push it on me.
  34. If history repeats itself, then SLI will die as the performance of a single chip exceeds a pair. 3dfx originally came up with a similar idea.

    The original 3dfx cards could be installed in pairs, later some manufactures put 2 chips on one board. Any of this sound familiar?

    Cost will ultimately determine the outcome...
  35. Dual GPU is really not Dual GPU by definition, its more like SLi-on-a-card, but it may possibly lead to either dual-core or dual GPU (2 GPUs or Graphics Processing Units, Like a Dual CPU sistem) But as a long term solution and marketing solution (implemented by both ATi and nVidia to make end-users think they need the dual Video Card array), Sli and Crossfire are probably here to stay. Once the G80 cores, and whatever ATi's next is gonna be, come out the G"71" (7950) will in turn lose its crown.
    This said, I must also say, and with this I conclude, that the 7950 is a "filler" between the G70s and the G80s. Dual GPU is, in my opinion, not the future, since ATi and nVidia are not concerned with the best cost to performance ratio, therefore they will, sadly, opt towards using their Crossfire and SLi systems rather than 2in1 video cards since there is a grater profit in selling two 7900GTXs than selling one 7950.
  36. I really wish they would go with the dual gpu/one card solution:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/14/sneak_preview_of_the_nvidia_quad_gpu_setup/

    That'd be neato for people who have limited PCI express space. Sure it's hideously expensive, but so is SLI. Too bad this will never come to fruition.
  37. This is definetly a bonus to mATX owners... with only a single PCI-e 16x on thier mobo, a dual GPU will definetly satisfy :twisted:
  38. I don't know about "SLI" or "crossfire" but SLI/Crossfire MB can still be used in future if the "another graphics card to calculate Physics" idea becomes feasible. As this requires a Crossfire/SLI chipset to handle the two x16 PCIe slot, you will still need a "SLI" MB. Ppl without the dual x16 PCIe slots will not have this option.

    So Crossfire/SLI MB and chipsets may still be useful
  39. Quote:
    Dual GPU is really not Dual GPU by definition, its more like SLi-on-a-card, but it may possibly lead to either dual-core or dual GPU (2 GPUs or Graphics Processing Units, Like a Dual CPU sistem)


    Since this seems to be some bizarre fantasy of so many, please explain how dual core or dual VPU makes any sense for anything other than multi monitor or perhaps VPU+PPU?

    Seriously VPUs are far more parrallel and asymetrical than any desktop CPU out there. If it helps you visualized, consider the 16 and 24 'pieplines' as equivalent to core on a CPU.

    SLi/Xfire makes the most sense when Moore's 'law' starts to break down I suspect that's around the 45nm 500-700+mil trans range IMO.
  40. Quote:
    I really would like to know if that 7950gx2 can do quad SLI though. I still havn't researched this...


    Try maybe searching the forum? :tongue:

    http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/GF7950GX2-SLi-good-amp-bad-ftopict187857.html
  41. it already is unpreferred by most people and it certainly isn't worth the money (for ordinary people).
  42. Why not have the best of the best?

    Enthusiasts will not settle for the best, maybe prices for SLI or Crossfire will be driven up, but cards will be bought.
    Even if they are Dual-GPU cards that run in SLI/Crossfire that offer 5% performance increase.
  43. that's right. as long as there's something out there that will produce better performance, hardware nuts will buy it.
  44. Quote:
    Dual GPU is, in my opinion, not the future, since ATi and nVidia are not concerned with the best cost to performance ratio, therefore they will, sadly, opt towards using their Crossfire and SLi systems rather than 2in1 video cards since there is a grater profit in selling two 7900GTXs than selling one 7950.


    WRONG... Nvidia would profit more by selling one 7950 because the price of production is lower... Its cheaper to build one 7950 than 2 7900GTX...the profit margin on ONE 7900GTX is so small that selling two of them is still not as good as selling one 7950 where the profit margin is huge.. It doesnt cost all that much more to make a 7950 as opposed to the 7900GTX...yet the 7950 costs way more, MOST ALL OF THAT price difference is profit.
  45. What are you smoking? A 7950 has twice the memory and processors as a single 7900 GTX. Production costs will be much higher than a single 7900 GTX.

    The 7950 msrp is $550, isn't it? 7900 GTXs are $450 to $500.

    The 7900 GTX is likely a WAY more profitable part to manufacture... and selling two of them makes twice that profit for them.

    Either way, I can absolutely guarantee without question that there is much more profit from two 7900 GTXs @ $900 - $1000, than there is from a single 7950 @ $550
  46. Quote:

    WRONG... Nvidia would profit more by selling one 7950 because the price of production is lower... Its cheaper to build one 7950 than 2 7900GTX...the profit margin on ONE 7900GTX is so small that selling two of them is still not as good as selling one 7950 where the profit margin is huge..


    LOVE hwo you made this big WRONG, while being somewhat wrong yourself.

    nV doesn't buidl the GF7950! The board partners do. nV (and specifically nV) doesn't make any cards, they make profit primarily by selling the chips to the card Mfrs, so depending on the profit of each chip they might make mre from 2 GTXs over 2GX2, because what it boils down to its the profit of the chips themselves.

    Quote:
    It doesnt cost all that much more to make a 7950 as opposed to the 7900GTX...


    Sure it does, there's twice the PCB and it's likely close to 50% more cost to the MFr, and that's about what it costs to buy.

    Quote:
    yet the 7950 costs way more, MOST ALL OF THAT price difference is profit.


    But not to nV, they're done at that point.
  47. It is important to mention what the 7950 is composed of: 2 individual cards, both with their own ram and cores. They are, in essence, two 7900GTXs in one box. But they are NOT one card. They might be attached and share the same video-out ports, but they DO NOT share ram or GPU load, they operate within the same parameters as any pair of cards in sli. Its like buying two sticks of dual channel ram that have been bonded. ATi might not go down the same path cause their cards have MASSIVE cooling devices, unlike the nVidias which, when joined, only cover 1 pci slot beyond the slot they use.
    What im getting at is there it seems to be no more board, resistor/capacitators, or anything between the 7950GX2 and 2 7900GTXs.
    If the production cost is any different, it will be barely different, and so, when the end-user is spending 800+ on 2 7900GTXs over the 600 for one 7950 is, however you wish to look at it, a major profit for board mfrs and nVidia. SLi and crossfire will NOT die just cause someone dicided it would b cool to put two cards in one slot, its just an easy way to not have to spen much $$$ on developing a new chip, or a response to a delay in the development of a new chip.
  48. Quote:
    It is important to mention what the 7950 is composed of: 2 individual cards, both with their own ram and cores. They are, in essence, two 7900GTXs in one box. But they are NOT one card.


    Depends on your definition of 'card', which is why I specifically call them PCBs.

    Quote:
    ATi might not go down the same path cause their cards have MASSIVE cooling devices, unlike the nVidias which,


    WTF are you talking about, nV's got the larget HSF on the market!



    Quote:
    when joined, only cover 1 pci slot beyond the slot they use.


    Which is the same as the X1800XL/X1900GT and AIW HSFs.

    Quote:
    What im getting at is there it seems to be no more board, resistor/capacitators, or anything between the 7950GX2 and 2 7900GTXs.


    Look harder Homer, 2 GTXs are much wider than 1 GX2. The reason the GX2 can have such small HSF assemblies is because they are clocked low enough to allow for that. If they could get any faster with that setup, they would.
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