Upgrading CPU (2,4GHz 533/478 > 3.06GHz 533/478)

[8640SH]

Hi,
I recently bought a cpu [Pentium IV Mobile 3,06GHz 533Mhz/478 HT
SL77P
for my laptop [Mitac 8640SH PIV Mobile 2,4GHz 533Mhz/478].
After the upgrade of the bios from 1.04 to 1.05, enabled APIC and HT from bios and the Geyserville feature (Speedstep).
On boot screen BIOS sees my CPU as 1600MHz
After a clean install of Windows Home Edition i finally get HT to work:

From My computer/proprieties i get my CPU as a 3.06 but the effective speed is only 1600MHz:

The Intel Processor ID Utility shows the same results:

CPUz claims:

On the other hand, running the Hyper-Threading Technology Test Utility i get no HT

I am frustrated!
I cannot understand if my cpu is fully supported or if i made something wrong with my system configuration.
Don't know if there is a jumper or something for voltage for example etc.
How can i make my cpu run at full speed?

PS. Sysoft Sandra identify my cpu as 3,06GHz at 1600MHZ and with HT enabled!
I am so confused! The benchmarks (Sandra) are disappointing with arithmetics
Dhrystone/Whetstone 4773MIPS/3541MFLOPS and multimedia
Integerx8/FLoatx4 12216/17496 it/s
Please help!

 

[shinigamiX]

If I recall correctly, your CPU throttles itself to lower speeds when not running demanding tasks to save power. Unless I'm gravely mistaken, your laptop is perfectly fine. The HT may be the result of that as well.

 

[8640SH]

Thank you for the reply
I also thought of that, but there is no process that increase my actual speed to almost near 3.06GHz, we can say it stays stable to 1600Mhz!

But i am wondering isn't a benchmark a demanding task itself??
Anyway if i am not wrong the benchmark results i wrote about are very low for a system like this (i understand that it's also a laptop and not a desktop), almost the same with my previous cpu (if not totally the same)!

Also is it correct that the bios recognize my CPU as 1600Mhz (my previous one, without HT and SpeedStep was recognized as 2400Mhz)!!

May i add that i use my laptop without the battery, because it's connected with AC power all the time!

 

[plewis00_uk]

No, I'll tell you what it is. Your Mitac 8640 OEM machine runs desktop components, therefore it is running the Pentium 4 Mobile 3.06Ghz CPU at the default multiplier of 12x (12 x 133FSB = 1.6Ghz). You can't get it to run at 3.06Ghz in that machine because of the way the components work. This is why you can run laptop Pentium 4s in desktops but need to overclock the FSB to gain that speed (this is how I got a cheap 2.4Ghz Pentium 4 back in the days when they were big money, 12 x 200). You won't be able to overclock that machine so I'm afraid you're stuck. Unless, of course, you buy a desktop 3.06Ghz CPU. All laptop chips in desktops default to 12x multiplier and as of yet (and likely ever) no-one has figured a way around this problem.

This page might help you:

http://www.orphanlaptops.com/id263.htm

 

[8640SH]

Thank you for your reply!
On the service manual downloaded from www.mitacservice.com
i can read

....The 8640 motherboard would support the Intel D/T or Mobile Pentium 4 (Willamette) / Northwood & Celeron in
mFC-PGA2 packaged, which will supports the different speed up to 1.9G/ 2G/2.2G/2.3G./3.2G above....

 

[plewis00_uk]

Yes, there are many different 8640 mainboards but most of them are desktop processors only. All the ones I saw were. But that is definitely the reason your processor only runs at 1.6Ghz, you can try updating the BIOS to see what happens, it might fix it. Otherwise, get a desktop-specific processor.

 

[8640SH]

I guess you are right!
I ll see what i can do and i ll report it here!
Thanks mate! Great Help!

 

[8640SH]

So, you are saying that i won't be able to make this cpu function on the laptop.
I send an email and I am waiting the reply from MITAC.
Every time i had a problem with my laptop or my smartphone they helped me through greatly.
I just hope they do so, also this time!

Anyway, how about a desktop then?
I do have a 478 mobo (Biostar P4VMA-M, v7). I get the same speed there also!
Can i do something there?

And finally, is it ok to seek for even bigger CPU, for example a desktop 3.20 (It's also cpu availability issue)?

Edit: Searching at the intels website...I figured that if i want a bigger cpu (over 3,06GHz) with 533/478/0.13 then i guess i have to build it myself !
As Intel says

Thank you again for your replies! I do appreciate them!

 

[plewis00_uk]

Because that CPU is capable of running at 3.06Ghz (though at 133FSB, 533 quad-pumped) putting it in a desktop it will default to 1.2 or 1.6Ghz (100/400 and 133/533 respectively) but you can more easily overclock in a desktop. In fact, you should do quite well as mobile CPUs are designed to run at lower voltages. If you run it at a desktop voltage (I think 1.525V) and bump the FSB you should be able able to reach around that speed, though it depends on a lot of things, like your motherboard being stable and having PCI/AGP locks. Your first attempt should shoot for 200/800 which will give you 2.4Ghz, and hopefully synchronized as your motherboard supports 800FSB directly. The only problem foreseen is that your board is a micro ATX one and Biostar, mATX boards are not ideal overclocking designed and Biostar aren't an enthusiastic brand, still, it might surprise you. Give it a try, the chances of damaging something are near zero.

 

[8640SH]

I understand,
but for now i leave this as my last resort, you see my primary need is to upgrade my laptop...
Anyway, i really need to ask one more thing,
i didn't quiet understand the reason why a mobile processor cannot function on full speed on a desktop machine (or my laptop which as we said uses desktop components).

What are the differences that stand behind the conflict? If you have link or an explanation i would be grateful!
Thank you again for your replies!

 

[mjdranzer]

in my opinon that cpu is faulty as the expected speed is 3.06 while the actual speed is 1.6. If you put the cpu in a desktop mother board the power saving technology will not work and thus the CPU will not slow down if it does'nt have full load. Thus there is a problem with the CPU.

 

[plewis00_uk]

This is BS, the CPU is not faulty at all. The CPU runs at its lowest multiplier for Pentium 4 which is 12x, hence at 133/533FSB it runs at 12 x 133 = 1.6Ghz, to get 3.06Ghz you need a 23x multiplier. Desktop chipsets (what appears to be found in your 8640, it's an Intel 845) default to the lowest multiplier available (12x). The CPU is not clocking-down under lower speeds, it is simply running at 12x as the BIOS sees it, hence the BIOS detects it as a 1.6Ghz CPU.

This forum says a bit more about it and will save me typing it all out for you:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=5020

Needless to say, I have seen and installed many Pentium 4-M processors in my PCs and lo-and-behold, they all run at the battery-optimized multiplier of... yes, you guessed it, 12x. Celeron 4-Ms (not their official name) do however (due to the absence of Speedstep) run at their expected multiplier, I have a desktop downstairs for downloading on which has a 1.5Ghz Celeron in it and that runs at 1.5Ghz (15 x 100), it did have a Pentium 4-M 1.4Ghz in it which I could run at various speeds - 1.2Ghz (12 x 100), 1.6Ghz (12 x 133) or 2.4Ghz (12 x 200), my FSB was locked as it was an mATX board. It appears to be the presence of Speedstep which causes the CPU to run in battery-optimized state all the time. Read any forum on running Pentium 4-M CPUs in a desktop (or desktop-class board/chipset) and you will find them saying the same thing.

Your CPU is not broken, this is totally normal.

 

[8640SH]

Why the cpu should be 1600Mhz if it is faulty?
I don't get it! Now i am really confused!

So you claim that a Mobile CPU can work fine on a desktop motherboard?
On the homepage of Biostar i can read about the CPU support and see that there is no Mobile Pentium enlisted.
On the other hand as plewis00_uk said, it seems that mitac 8640sh also doesn't support (?) mobile!

How can someone verrify each opinion?
Now i am really confused, sad and worried!
:? :roll: :? :roll: :? :roll:

 

[Scougs]

You could try using Notebook Hardware Control and see if it will allow you to change the multiplier.

I use it on my Centreno based notebook to control speed-step. I don't know if it will work but you can give it a try. Your problem is that your CPU is running with a x12 multiplier instead of x23 which is needed for 3.06GHz.
The CPU is not defective or faulty.

http://www.pbus-167.com/chc.htm#anchor_download

 

[8640SH]

Also i read this:

...Before you purchase a processor upgrade, you must know exactly what base FSB and clock-multiplier settings the motherboard provides. Note that even if the motherboard provides the required settings to run a particular processor, it might require a BIOS reflash in order to be recognised by the BIOS, because the BIOS programmers might not have given the BIOS the ability to recognise that particular processor as it had not been issued when the BIOS was created....

In other words you are right about the motherboard not supporting the cpu!
But i am waiting for a reply from the mitac service! They told me not to worry and i am trying not to!
I ll report the results here!
Thank you, every idea is well accepted!

 

[plewis00_uk]

Right, I can verify what I said because I have done it first hand. Mobile CPUs (in the P4-M range) on boards with desktop chipsets (including your laptop) will not run anything but a 12x multiplier as the boards do not know how to interpret Speedstep. Ignore the guy who said it was faulty, he has no idea what he is talking about.

By all means try to use software to raise the multiplier but I'm sure if this could be done, all people (including myself) using laptop chips in desktop boards would've done it by now. The Pentium M (Centrino to some, though incorrect) can have its multipliers controlled and adjusted on the fly as well as its voltage. The P4-M cannot.

I'm afraid you are SOL unless you can find a desktop 533FSB CPU to stick in your laptop (not Prescott-cored, must be Northwood). The CPU you have is still worth a fair bit of money, some Dell laptops and others can make use of it, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could sell it for at least £60-80.

 

[8640SH]

...the boards do not know how to interpret Speedstep

...so it's a Speedstep problem?
This might be true for the desktop but my laptop supports Speedstep (on manual) and it has a feature named Geyserville on BIOS when i boot with the 3,04 on!

And if it is not the Geyserville, what is the problem with this CPU?

 

[8640SH]

This is the reply from mitac service.

Dear Sir,sorry for late reply!Did you try another Intel Mobile Pentium 4 CPU on the 8640SH?I mean that, are you sure your CPU is good? basically I think the 8640SH can work with that CPU well,if possbile,please take your notebook to the distributor for check!

I think this is a deadline.
Anyway, if i have any news, i ll post it here...

Sorry guys, but i still haven't fully believed each "theory"...
"Bad CPU or Not supported"...
I ll keep in touch.

 

[8640SH]

OK, I reviewed the whole thread and i believe that the CPU must be OK.
Now the only think left to do is to buy a new one, desktop this time...Damn!
I just hope that the mitac service can do something about...
I contacted 'em before i order the CPU and they told me that it should work fine! So i proceeded!
I don't want to blame anyone about my problem, but i really wish they could do something about it now!
Anyway THANK YOU again for your advices and infos provided...
As I said before, I 'll keep in touch!

 

[8640SH]

The Mitac Service replied and my hopes came to life again

Dear Sir,I check the spec of 8640SH, which is not to support
Mobile Pentium4 CPU, because 8640 has many expand models,such as
8640P,8640G,8640M,8640SH,8640SC,some of them support Pentium 4 D/T ,
others support Mobile Pentium 4 CPU,
the service manual is for common 8640 model, is not specific for 8640SH,I
double check the spec of 8640SH,it was designed to support D/T pentium 4
CPU,so the problem happened.
Now I still let our R&D to test if they can through modify BIOS to support
the CPU on your hand,
but I am not sure it must be work, I will reply soon.

So the problem WAS "mobile pentium cpu on non mobile motherboard" and I the truth is I have a support team (mitac) that might help me out!
I am waiting their last mail!

plewis00_uk,
I thank you very much for your indications and sharing your knowledge with me!