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New build problems - Lock up

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June 18, 2006 2:49:25 PM

Hello to all,

I built a pc a couple of months ago with all parts (specs below) from Newegg.com. The problem that I am having is a hang up that renders the pc useless until manually rebooted.

It does not matter what I am doing at the time (Excel, AutoCAD, HL2 or just at the desktop moving files) and it could take two minuets or two hours for the symptoms to occur.


The symptoms:
1 – While moving a file or folder the folder hangs.
2 – The minimize, maximize & exit buttons do not respond, they will not even show as depressed.
3 – The keyboard stops responding (ctrl+alt+del, windows key) nothing works.
4 – The mouse stops responding.
5 – The pc stops responding completely.
6 – Single press of the power button on case that will normally soft shut down does not respond.
7 – Power button on case must be pressed for four seconds to do a hard shut down.

There is no recovering from this the pc must be hard shut down. Upon restarting I get no errors and the event viewer gives no indication of error.

Measures taken:
1 – Replaced USB mouse and keyboard with ps/2.
2 – Ran Memtest86 once for 12 hours and a second time for 26 hours with no errors.
3 – Checked PSU voltages with ASUS & Corsair tech support.
4 – Updated bios and reformatted/reinstalled XP.
5 – Have tried multiple device drivers/bios for MB & VGA
6 – RMA the video card reformatted/reinstalled XP installed new card with current drivers from NVIDIA.
7 – RMA the motherboard reformatted/reinstalled XP installed current drivers from NVIDIA.
8 – Replaced RAM with (Kingston) friends RAM.
9 – Beat my head against the wall!


Specs:

OS – Microsoft Windows XP Pro sp2
MB - ASUS A8N-SLI NF4SLI 939 – Replaced 06-16-06
PSU - TT W0101RU 550W RT
CPU - AMD A64 X2 4400+ 2.2G 939 2x1MR
MEM - 1Gx2 CORSAIR TWINX2048-3200C2PRO – Replaced with Kingston Ram 06-17-06
VGA - EVGA GF 7900GT 256-P2-N569-SG – Replaced 06-04-2006
HDx2 - WD 10,000RPM 8MB WD740GD - SataRaid = 0
Audio - Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS PCI OEM

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

Tim W.

More about : build problems lock

June 18, 2006 6:18:22 PM

i dont have much knowledge on this sort of stuff but i would belive, as you built the computer yourself, you would have the xp home oem disk. :?
providing you havent got much stuff you need on the computer eg important documents, work etc then try and re-install winodws perhaps, that might just do the trick, perhaps. :wink:
EDIT
sorry i just read that you already tried that lol
June 18, 2006 10:28:33 PM

my computer use to do something similar like that, it turned out to be my hard drive, ironically also a Raptor 74 gig. Try using a different hard drive, see if the lockups keep happening. My raptor was randomly dying on me because of heat problems in my case. Sometimes it wuld last a week, sometimes 10 seconds, almost random like in your case. Raptor's heat up very quickly because of their 10000RPM speeds and like to die on u if u dont adequately cool them.

try a new hard drive, see if that fixes the problem
i had to Advance RMA my hard drive. WD has a nice option where they'll mail you a new hard drive before you send in yours.
good luck
Related resources
June 20, 2006 1:39:24 PM

You wouldn't happen to have another PSU you could try or borrow? That might worth looking at too even if the voltages are correct it might not be putting out the total wattage needed to run your system. I know its a 550W which should be ample for you configuration, it still might be worth a look.
June 20, 2006 2:21:22 PM

I like the HDD suggestion, install any OS and check it out. One of your drives may be failing and the Raid controller is not checking enough for consistancy to hault boot. So there is another thing to look at, although your have RAM'd your mobo, perhaps ther is an issue with the drives and the contoller, have you check any NCQ compatibility issues? But anyway, you should maybe ghost yourself an Image and load each drive up one at a time.

I cannot see your PSU being bad, if the system were to freak out it would do it some time around post, or device spin up when the most volts are being sucked down. Once windows was up you'd be able to race what triggers a bad cpu like video editing and so on, it wouldnt be random.
June 20, 2006 5:15:09 PM

Some additional information.

I tried unhooking all but the two hard drives and the CPU fan from the power supply and the pc has been running stable for 24 hrs with no lockups.

Spoke to Thermaltake and they say to replace the existing or upgrade to a 650-700watt PSU. I realize that it does not hurt to have more wattage than is necessary however, the 700 watt PSU's get pricey and 550 watts is technically more than enough for my application.

My existing PSU is being replaced through RMA. If that does not fix the problem then I guess I will be (not happy about this) upgrading my brand new PSU.

I am not sure if the HD's the culprit as I have never had 24 hrs of uptime. Although, the comment that PCcashCow made about the load at start up leaves a doubt in my (now fried) mind. 8O

I will post back once the new PSU is installed.

Tim
June 27, 2006 1:35:17 AM

Just replaced the PSU and within ten minutes the same problem has occurred. The replacement PSU is a Thermaltake 550 watt.

So far I have replaced the following to try to remedy this problem:

:shock: Motherboard
:shock: Video Card
:shock: RAM
:shock: Power Supply

This really sucks....I am at a loss here. Does anyone have any suggestions
June 27, 2006 3:10:00 AM

i've had my computer lock up because i put a dvd-rw in old dvd-rom drive....

i thought it was a virus, turns out i just need a new dvd-rom drive....
June 27, 2006 9:49:13 PM

:cry: 

Well I don’t think it is the power supply....I just installed a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510. The problem still exists.


This problem mostly occurs when I am moving a file or folder, so maybe it's the (2 SATA Raid) hard drives?

What do you guys think?
June 27, 2006 10:17:10 PM

>>What do you guys think?<<

You may have a faulty, or in need of a proper system driver, AMD 4400 X2 dual core processor. Did you try installing the driver update for Windows XP for AMD's dual cores at the AMD.com site?
June 27, 2006 11:40:51 PM

badge,

Yes I did install the driver and the problem still exists.

I spoke with AMD tech and they say HD's, spoke with Western Digital and the say to run their DOS disk utility to check drive integrity.

Will post back with findings.
June 27, 2006 11:54:51 PM

Quote:
badge,

Yes I did install the driver and the problem still exists.

I spoke with AMD tech and they say HD's, spoke with Western Digital and the say to run their DOS disk utility to check drive integrity.

Will post back with findings.


I was using this very computer about 10 days ago whan my screen locked up like you described your does. I hard started with the power button held in. Kept getting a blue screen and couldn't boot up to the desk top. Though the hard boot had corrupted windows so took out my WD hard drive and took it home. Hooked it as a slave to another computer to reformat and that computer blue screened. Long story short, my WD hard drive had fried. I put a Samsung 160 SATA in here and have been good since. Your freeze ups may well be your hard drive failing. You said you unplugged your hard drive and let the system run for 24 hours and nothing crashed? Am I right? Sounds like a hard dive problem. Good luck getting it straightened out. I know how frustrating it can be.
June 28, 2006 12:13:00 AM

I beleive he stated that he took everything out BUT the HDs.

Did you ever think that you might have a Virus, or an out of control APP?

If you have a service/app/driver that spins or possibly conflicts at usage then you may have a problem.

It sounds like a hardware conflict though. Since when you removed everything else all was well.

Have you looked in device manager? Do you have anything YELLOW in there?

Also, are you using the primary HD controller in RAID or are you using the secondary controller? You very well could have an IRQ conflict brought on by usage. Some things play nice with each other until they BOTH try to access at the same time. Used to happen all the time with Modems and PS2 mice.
June 28, 2006 12:40:27 AM

ches111,

I am using the on board (Nvidia) controller set to stripping on two WD SATA 10k rpm 74gb Raptors.

As for an app or virus, I don't think that could be the problem as I have re-formatted and installed XP Pro sp2 about six times now. THe problem has occured just after (no apps installed) initial install.
June 28, 2006 1:19:33 AM

Virus could still be an issue since there are SOME that can survive a format.

They put themselves into memory at startup and replace themselves in the MBR every chance they get from that copy.

Empire Monkey virus was notorious for this. It would even survive a low-level format because of its nature. Only fix was to boot from clean non-writable floppy and then clean from it (older virus that ticked alot of people off).

I do not think it is a virus though. More than likely a hardware conflict. Albeit subtle.
June 29, 2006 12:36:42 AM

Well I just got done using Western Digitals DOS disk utility to check the drives. Both check ok six times in a row.

I did away with the raid array and switched to SATA with a single drive at a time. I installed the OS on the first drive and did not install any updates or device drivers. The system failed within ten minutes and the same with the second drive.

I am going to try an old IDE drive to see if maybe it is something with the SATA.
June 29, 2006 1:31:34 AM

Quote:
Well I just got done using Western Digitals DOS disk utility to check the drives. Both check ok six times in a row.

I did away with the raid array and switched to SATA with a single drive at a time. I installed the OS on the first drive and did not install any updates or device drivers. The system failed within ten minutes and the same with the second drive.

I am going to try an old IDE drive to see if maybe it is something with the SATA.


I took a quick look at your posts and you never mentioned if you are O'cing your system? What are you doing with the BIOS settings? One other thing. Did you mention your PSU? Can you swap that out and see what happens?

EDIT: What about your case? Is the power on button on your case loose from the case?
June 29, 2006 1:40:39 AM

Quote:
Well I just got done using Western Digitals DOS disk utility to check the drives. Both check ok six times in a row.

I did away with the raid array and switched to SATA with a single drive at a time. I installed the OS on the first drive and did not install any updates or device drivers. The system failed within ten minutes and the same with the second drive.

I am going to try an old IDE drive to see if maybe it is something with the SATA.


One other thing. RAM can cause lockups like you describe. I just RMA'D some corsiar XMS. I'd put it in the board and software would fail. I'd take it out and the machine ran fine. Simple, but it happens that way.
June 29, 2006 1:45:54 AM

Hi badge,

I am not overclocking. <---Darn thing won’t run long enough for me to even enjoy standard performance.

Bios are for the most part defaulted. The only changes I made were: running Nvidia raid, PCI E and no logo at start up.

PSU is currently PC power & cooling 510, previous PSU's were Thermaltake 550 watt.

I have tried this several times. When I get to the desktop and the PC is functioning ok, I will tap, flex & wiggle all the components to try to find a loose connection. I have had no luck with this approach.

I tried 2gb's of viking ram from a friend and the same problem occured.
June 29, 2006 1:53:04 AM

Quote:
Hi badge,

I am not overclocking. <---Darn thing won’t run long enough for me to even enjoy standard performance.

Bios are for the most part defaulted. The only changes I made were: running Nvidia raid, PCI E and no logo at start up.

PSU is currently PC power & cooling 510, previous PSU's were Thermaltake 550 watt.

I have tried this several times. When I get to the desktop and the PC is functioning ok, I will tap, flex & wiggle all the components to try to find a loose connection. I have had no luck with this approach.


You have me stumped too. Here are my specs on the computer I mess around with most:

AMD 4800 X2
EVGA 7600 GT x 2 SLI
MSI NEO Patinum SLI
Crucial Ballistic PC4000 500mhz 4 x 512
Asus/Pioneer 2 optical drives
floppy drive
5 or 6 case fans
2 case lights
OLD PSU ANTEC 550w 2.0 SLI

I was getting a lot of heat and lock ups trying to overclock. I put in a 680w 22/24amp dual rail PSU and my temps dropped and I'm stable now. The 550w PSU was breathing fire out the exhaust. It may be worth a shot. I think you have a processing problem though. Like RAM-type problem. Compatibility problem, ya think?
June 29, 2006 2:22:27 AM

My vote goes for hdd problem

You could try to start them up from the begining with fdisk not just formating.
June 29, 2006 2:28:33 AM

But I have formatted both drives independently and loaded the os on each drive without the other connected and I get the same problem with both. I would think this for the most part would eliminate the drives.
June 29, 2006 3:23:22 AM

Quote:
But I have formatted both drives independently and loaded the os on each drive without the other connected and I get the same problem with both. I would think this for the most part would eliminate the drives.


Maybe it's time to RMA the processor to AMD. If I had done the following and still had the problem, I would RMA the processor:

You said you tried unplugging everything leaving only the PSU, processor, 1 stick of RAM and the video card. All components you have already replaced. BTW, have you tried swapping out the EVGA 7900 GT?. Let the system run at the BIOS screen and see what happens. It could be when you run software the processor is failing at that point and locking up the system.

If you know your PSU, RAM and video card are stable at BIOS post, then that leaves the processor. I would approach it like that. I would RMA the AMD processor.

I have RMA'd one processor to AMD in northern CA about two years ago. The company was great except they had to ship me the new processor five, count 'em, five times! The first four times I received the processor with bent pins. The people at AMD said it had never happened anywhere, anytime in the history or the company. Finally they sent me a single processor on a 12 pack plastic tray strapped on by a supervisor. That worked. The whole thing only took about a week or a little more using UPS Overnight. Times 5.
June 29, 2006 11:03:10 AM

badge,

I appreciate all your input.

:x :x AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:  :evil:  This is getting the best of me!


The next item to RMA is the CPU, however AMD did not think it was the issue when I described the problem. This just getting silly.

A factory system is looking pretty good right about now.

I will post back afterI install the replacement CPU.

Thanks,

Tim W.
June 29, 2006 11:14:18 AM

Keep me updated. I have to know.
June 29, 2006 11:30:19 AM

Quote:
badge,

I appreciate all your input.

:x :x AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:  :evil:  This is getting the best of me!


The next item to RMA is the CPU, however AMD did not think it was the issue when I described the problem. This just getting silly.

A factory system is looking pretty good right about now.

I will post back afterI install the replacement CPU.

Thanks,

Tim W.


I think you will solve the problem with that RMA Anyway, I have so many AMD 64's I have built. I have I think 12 builds up and running around our two offices and the house. I have Windows Visa Beta 2 installed on an AMD 32 bit 3200 socket A. Didn't coount that. I took the IDE HD out and installed it in a kid's system along with a brand new ABIT 865 dual channel board with 2 x 256 Corsiar PC3200 XMS and a ATI 9600 XT the other night. The kid freaked. His games runs faster than he ever imagned they could. It's the most wicked Celeron in the neighborhood.

Tonight my project was to go on Newegg (you can RMA anything to Newegg for up to a year, except the processor) and buy an AMD socket 754 PCI Express SLI motherboard. I'll be tearing into one of my four, yes 4, AMD socket 754's and building a 2 x 16 PCI express with the chip. Should run good with my son's games. Maybe I'll take my two 7600 GT Evga's and put them in there and get another 7800 GT to match the one in my Pentium D 805 Smithfield and hook them up in the AMD 4800 X2. And would you believe I have all this under control!
June 29, 2006 12:53:34 PM

I have read all the posts.....I too have had problems with my first build fortunately I had a tech friend. 2 things were not right. My mobo was shorting out on the mounting posts for some reason....giving me similar problems. So I suggest checking to one see if the mobo is snuggly tightened down. If this persists, (I am a make do kinda guy) I cut 4 small squares of thin cardboardm out, put a hole in the middle of each one and placed one under the mobo at each mounting post. That did the trick for me. I know it sounds hokey but it worked.

Last thing was one ram stick was not completely seated causing similar problems with another computer. Check to see if they are seated well.

This was my experience, hope this helps. Good luck! :D 
June 29, 2006 1:56:41 PM

Choctawkw,

I will give that a try before I send out the CPU. One thing that I was going to try a while back was to re assemble the MB, GPU, PSU & HDD's outside the case to eliminate the first issue you mentioned.

I am still confused as to why I can almost always reproduce the problem (within five minutes of startup) by just moving any folder back and forth between two locations about half a dozen times and it will lock up. But if I don’t do anything at start up the pc will run for days. I did try wiggling & tapping on all the components and that did not cause any problems.
June 29, 2006 5:39:07 PM

You are having a conflict!

More than likely it is the HD controller settings.

Do you have two controllers on your MB for SATA?

If so disable the secondary and try using ONLY the primary.

A bad CPU will normally throw post codes. Then you should RMA. Unless you are seeing abnormal temps and the CPU is throttling... This would indicate a heat/CPU cooler issue.

In short do not RMA the CPU YET.

More than likely you have a conflict issue.
June 29, 2006 5:42:02 PM

The secondary controller normally requires you to install drivers during the windows install just to even see the devices on that controller. The primary controller typically does not require the WINDOWS drivers to SEE devices.

Disable the secondary and only use the primary.... If your board has both. I have not read up on your board so i would have to look it up....
June 29, 2006 5:59:41 PM

ches111,

In my bios I have the option to disable: SATA 1&2, SATA 3&4
I did not think it mattered which channel your drives (mine are on 1&2) were on, if you are running raid then you have to load the raid drivers i.e. F6 at os installation so that the os installation can "see" the array.

If you are not using raid then the os will see the drive/s without any additional drivers.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
June 29, 2006 7:22:24 PM

Correct...


I am saying, try and change the resources used by your controllers.... You might want to force an IRQ change to see if that works.

It seems you are using the correct controller...

Did you check the device manager to see if you have any conflicts?

Also, On my build of the box in my sig. I had to overvolt the vid card by only .1 to get the system to be stable. It was a small issue found on a website twenty pages deep! The .1 overvolt worked like a champ!... So what I am saying is you ma have to do a little more research. Does any of your frineds have a CPU of the same socket that they would let you try? I would BET that you will exhibit the same issue.
July 15, 2006 9:48:08 AM

Was the processor RMA'd? Do you have a replacement back yet. Have you solved the problem?
July 17, 2006 8:43:47 PM

I have been out of town and would like to say that it has been nice not having to deal with this pc thing for the past week. :D 

I was able to get the CPU rma'd before I left and should be getting the new in the next couple of days. I will post back with my results.

Tim W.
July 28, 2006 3:41:17 AM

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Problem solved :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Finally.............The problem exists no more!

RMA'd the cpu and all is working well. I was not sure how much more of this I was willing to take.

Thank you to all who contributed to this thread. :D 

Tim W.
July 28, 2006 3:46:58 AM

Quote:
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Problem solved :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Finally.............The problem exists no more!

RMA'd the cpu and all is working well. I was not sure how much more of this I was willing to take.

Thank you to all who contributed to this thread. :D 

Tim W.


AMD does a good job filling an RMA request. I set the record by having a processor RMA's 5 times! Shipping damage 4 times!

You gave good descriptions and by those accounts we were able to narrow it down. Great to hear anyway! GL
!