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Okay im on the verge of dropping PC and turnin to consoles!!

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June 19, 2006 11:18:23 AM

Im just fed up of having to re-install (windows) my gaming system literaley every 2-3 weeks when the performance just suddenly drops (only on gaming) and i cant play my games at max detail ant more!!!!! It just dosnt make sense! How can a PC, after a certain amount of time passed, just suddenly slow right down and give me unacceptalbe 7800GTX framerates just like that!!? :evil:  Of corse when i do a clean install (which i have to do aprox. every 2 weeks) the gaming is back to the right speed..... for 2 weeks, when it starts again!! I take such good care of my system and have never, ever had any spyware or viruses so what is going on!? All this is starting to make me hate pc gaming!! Plz help!
June 19, 2006 11:32:28 AM

Personally I can't imagine what would be happening your system that every 2 weeks you require a clean install to play games. After every clean install you do your games become unplayable? If I have to guess it some software that is being loaded is affecting the system. Do you load everything the same way each time? Or do you vary your install? Maybe try loading only some of the basics with one of your current games and see it still dies in 2 weeks. Maybe then you can narrow it down.
June 19, 2006 11:41:19 AM

Quote:
and have never, ever had any spyware or viruses so what is going on!?
That you know of. I find it hard to believe that you've
NEVER had any spyware. :?
Related resources
June 19, 2006 12:21:16 PM

Quote:
dont use the internet at all.
Yep, those porn sites will get ya every time. :wink:
June 19, 2006 12:39:28 PM

Quote:
mmm goats and grannies :p 

dunno what ur lookin at tbh lol, well anyways id say there is some software that ur putting on ur machine thats putting ur pc on a "go slow" is it a manufacturer's pc or a custom system?


possibly are u running loads of scanning software like registry cleaners, anti virus or anti spyware progs, the reason y i ask a friend of mine uses too many and finds himself doing the same thing as u tho not as often as every 2 weeks
June 19, 2006 12:41:10 PM

No see the thing is, as i said when i do a clean install my games run fine again, framerates etc. back to normal. Upon re-install i only install most recent official graphics card and chipset drivers. Everything goes fine until about 2-3weeks later when, like i said, the performance just drops for no reason. This time when it happened i had done nothing to alter the system!? I have already replaced my graphics card once before so surely that coudnt be faulty?? Did chkdsk and it reported no hard drive errors! Couldnt fgure out how to get memtest to run so memory has gone unchecked but if it was a memory problem i would probly notice slow downs in general windows usage, which i dont. Only gaming. Any more advice, suggestions?
June 19, 2006 12:42:54 PM

Custom built (built myself).
June 19, 2006 12:55:18 PM

Hate to break it to you but this is just the nature of Windows XP gaming. If you do not want to deal with it... well either be a console gamer... or do what that guy said:
Quote:
fresh install. disable automatic updates for windows. also make sure you have no connection to the internet execpt for activating windows. now install only ONE game. do not install any other software apart from windows and the game. now play it and see if the the performance drops. dont use the internet at all.

if it still happens its hardware.



Basically the thing you have to realize about windows is that every new installation of software will cause it to slow down or become less reliable. So you have to try and install as little as possible
June 19, 2006 1:02:00 PM

Seems to me that you probably have scanners running in the background or some other software holding your performance back. I have no such problem myself when it comes to gaming on a pc. Do you have very many scanning programs loaded?
June 19, 2006 1:31:07 PM

Howabout peripherals? Some mouse/gamepads have compatability issues that can cripple performance (drivers?).
Does your system just slowdown a lot or do they become completely unplayable, and/or crash to desktop?
June 19, 2006 1:32:50 PM

Quote:
dont use the internet at all.
Yep, those porn sites will get ya every time. :wink:

Are you the voice of experience?
June 19, 2006 1:35:22 PM

Okay so i updated my g driver to 91.31 and my performance in FEAR is better than ever. It shot up! In the built in fps test i got 39min, 71avg and 165max! Everything max cept for Vol. lights medium. Thats compared to 36min, 65/66avg and 159max which i was getting an hour ago.... I only ran the test once so it could be a mess up but i sure hope not!!! Anyway so performance now is better than what i was getting even after a clean install! So could it just be that i need to update my driver every couple of weeks or so?
June 19, 2006 1:46:32 PM

Umm.. well all i know is that after updating my gdriver today fixed the slow downs. Also i have never tried running my games with no updated drivers on a clean install. Ive always downloaded the latest chipset/graphics drivers first thing. Then tested. If thats the answer to your question. Why do you ask?
June 19, 2006 1:57:17 PM

lol, you won't have to update your drivers every 2-weeks :p  Hell I'd be shocked if their were even significant, stable, updates on Nvidias driver tree every 2-weeks.

Good to hear the new driver is working well, and it should continue to work fine. I can't see any reason why the driver would "degrade" over time.
June 19, 2006 2:09:42 PM

Quote:
Hell I'd be shocked if their were even significant, stable, updates on Nvidias driver tree every 2-weeks.
Lol i didnt think of that.
Quote:
I can't see any reason why the driver would "degrade" over time.
Yeah but i cant help but think that thats exactly what happened with my previous driver (84.21)... Kinda weird isnt it.
June 19, 2006 2:46:08 PM

Get a Mac mini for browsing the web, using Word etc... and leave your PC for gaming (away from an internet connection, if you can help it)

My PC isn't exactly the greatest, but it was a lot worse when I was using it for everything. Now that it's just games (and tinkering) it's much happier, and the Mac is better for all the 'boring bits' anyway.
June 19, 2006 2:56:54 PM

I actually have a Mac but its so old... 1996/97 or sumthin! I would never touch that again though, in this day and age!
June 19, 2006 3:17:58 PM

You must be going where you shouldn't be going without protection. Even my worst customers don't have to come in and have that done so often, and their job it seems is to screw it up beyond use every chance they get.
Your problem may be not thinking, not enough anti spyware programs, or you think you can view porn without paying a price.
You got other issues if you have to load drivers all of the time, get someone that knows that stuff to go over your system.
June 19, 2006 3:23:42 PM

Quote:
Im just fed up of having to re-install (windows) my gaming system literaley every 2-3 weeks when the performance just suddenly drops (only on gaming) and i cant play my games at max detail ant more!!!!! It just dosnt make sense! How can a PC, after a certain amount of time passed, just suddenly slow right down and give me unacceptalbe 7800GTX framerates just like that!!? :evil:  Of corse when i do a clean install (which i have to do aprox. every 2 weeks) the gaming is back to the right speed..... for 2 weeks, when it starts again!! I take such good care of my system and have never, ever had any spyware or viruses so what is going on!? All this is starting to make me hate pc gaming!! Plz help!


Completely agree. iv been a pc gamer for years and years, but hardware prices are insanely high for crappy performance..i have a 7800gtx, which is a 450 dollar video card( complete with 2 gigs of ram and fx 55), and gives me a whopping 33 fps in outside environments in oblivion, thats just unexceptable after paying that much. Even the "awesome!" 7950gx2,gives you a HUGE 37 fps in outside environments, if your happy with that, after paying 600 bucks for a video card, theres something wrong with you. And after play oblivion on a friends 360, it was pretty amazing getting a constant 60 fps, hdr and AA at the same time. for a consol that mearly runs 399 bucks, and ran it on a pc monitor and looked awesome. The only reason i havnt gone to a consol, is cuz they dont have keyboard mouse support for Fps's n such, if a 360 or ps3 got keyboard mouse support for all their games, that would be the end of PC gaming. And also, its like you guys are making up excuses of why his computer is running crappy with games..."drivers, peripherals plugged in and how many programs your running" .....No, has nothing to do with any of those, its simlpy the fact that Manufacturers want your money. They are selling these new "Great" video cards for 600 bucks , just so you can get crappy frames if turned up to higher resolutions. (im sorry, 30 fps is just not exceptable by any means unless you have a video card like a 9800 pro) THey have the technology to make one video card, and make it work for every game at a steady 60 fps, but they dont, they do very small upgrades on each new video card, to make sure that you will come back and buy more, which is smart on their part, dumb on the consumers part.
June 19, 2006 3:53:30 PM

I commend you for wanting to go the console route. That is exactly what their made for, GAMING.

PCs were never meant to be toys, but when you hang around enthusiasts any and everything is bound to happen.

I suggest following you heart. Since most consoles have online multiplayer gaming you will still be able to get your "frag on" in the universe. Leave computer work to the computer and gaming to the console.

Peace Out!

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SunAngel - Clearing the forumz, one noob at a time!
June 19, 2006 4:06:22 PM

I didn’t read all the posts so sorry if this has been mentioned, but the once over I gave the thread I didn’t see it.

of the games you install do any of them have starforce 4 protection or use steam valve protection (ect half life 2 for steam or ToCA 3 for starforce 4)

I know from personal experiance that thoes 2 protection systems FU*K up a pc. Now to fix this small problem you just need to treat the game install like you downloaded the game illegally. I do this all the time, make an image of my cd or dvd, mount it, get a no cd crack or what ever crack I need then boom no prob with the pc.

I haven’t tried anything with getting around the valve stuff bc after I got Half life 2 I promised never to support a company that effs me over like that. After I beat hl2 I reloaded windows and never touched that game again. I might buy hl2 episode 1 after I find a way to crack it but not until I know I won’t have to put up with valve crap

Those protection systems accomplish nothing but screwing over the people that legally buy the game to play it, those that want to steal it, the protection only slightly inconveniences them.
June 19, 2006 4:49:39 PM

Hey guys, yeah just to say my good framerate didnt last..... Back to shitty performance now!! :evil:  I just dont believe it! Installed the new forceware driver - great performance, 1 hour later its slowed down again!!? Okay there is definately something wrong here and it just does not make sense! I give up.
June 19, 2006 5:05:27 PM

porn ~~
June 19, 2006 5:35:15 PM

Quote:
Hell I'd be shocked if their were even significant, stable, updates on Nvidias driver tree every 2-weeks.
Lol i didnt think of that.
Quote:
I can't see any reason why the driver would "degrade" over time.
Yeah but i cant help but think that thats exactly what happened with my previous driver (84.21)... Kinda weird isnt it.

You think the driver degraded... What are you basing that on? Have you removed and replaced it?
June 19, 2006 5:46:43 PM

Nvidia's new drivers usually improve performance some.
June 19, 2006 5:47:18 PM

What game(s) are you playing an how much if the drop from normal. somthing tells me this dude is just too hardcore and a 1fps drop is the end of the world
June 19, 2006 5:51:00 PM

Well i always use the FEAR performance test to check how well my graphics cards performing so thats what i am mostly basing my bad/good results on. Anyway so just after i updated my driver to 91.31 i had these decent results, 39fpsmin, 71avg and 165max. About an hour later i ran it again and i got (sorry almost swore there!) these bad results, 36min, 67 or 70avg and 155fpsMax!! Same game settings as i described earlier. Just one sudden drop is how i describe it. I just dont know what to do!!
June 19, 2006 5:56:24 PM

Next time you finish your clean install, just ghost your drive in its pristine state. Then, when things slow down, you just recover from your golden drive image and you are good again.

Should only take about 10 minutes of downtime to restore the drive image.

This won't fix the root problem of windows OS creep, but reduces the pain to a minimum.
June 19, 2006 6:01:53 PM

Oh dear.

People who buy PCs to benchmark them should get 3DMark99 and a PIII 500 and nothing more.
June 19, 2006 6:05:12 PM

Are you serious?? So theres nothing to worry about a drop in performance! :? I dont really understand. So are you saying this is normal?
June 19, 2006 6:07:07 PM

out of curiosity, what do you use for sound? i know that the sound settings in some games can really cause a hit in performance.

also, i would really check for spyware if you haven't already. use the free non-resident scanners like ad-aware and spybot: search & destroy.

I am an avid pc gamer with a home built system, and my compuiter is as stable as can be. i play almost every new game out there and have a system similar to yours (fx-55, 7800gtx 512, 2GB ddr, audigy2 zs). can't remember what my framereate in fear is. i'll have to check that out. :) 

someone also mentioned starforce copy protection. it is a known problem, but i had only heard of starforce slowing down optical drives. but you might want to do a search on "remove starforce" and check it out.
June 19, 2006 6:13:07 PM

Thats not exactly a huge drop in performance your describing, its a few FPS. The way you are acting you would thing your games were unplayable or something! Maybe you should go with console if you are that concerned with fluctuations in the your FPS numbers...
June 19, 2006 6:17:35 PM

I dont have a sound card. Im using onboard audio. In FEAR i have the sound quality set to Medium.
June 19, 2006 6:18:15 PM

So you're basing your 'good' and 'bad' framerates on two single runs? The numbers you quoted represent a 'drop' in framerate of 8% minimum (3fps? - hardly worth crying over), 6% average (5 fps drop and you think there's a problem?) and 7% max (10fps difference? - where's the problem?) - that's not a catastrophic framerate reduction in my mind - and those framerates are still pretty good for FEAR if you have everything dialed up all the way. I don't see the problem. I think if you try running something like FRAPS you will see that your framerate varies dynamically with the environment it is rendering - large outdoor scenes will naturally have slower framerates than inside scenes with less to render. The variations you are describing sound to me like the typical statistical variation that comes with running the same graphics test only twice - run the same test 12 times and see how the numbers stack up, you will find your two numbers are well within the average range, and are nothing to be ashamed of, I might add.

If you start adding physics and all of the other stuff in modern games, videocards have trouble in a hurry.

No one seems to stop and think that even the grandest videocard on the planet will not run games like FEAR or Oblivion at 2048x1024 with HDR, 4XAA and 8XAF at playable framerates - right now game vendors have pushed the advantages of the new hardware beyond what the fastest is capable of doing completely maxxed out.

You'll find with most PC games - that extra 'HIGHEST' settings for stuff like AA and AF or even resolution increases don't make a tangible difference in how good the game gets. It looks it's 'best' somewhere in the 'medium' to 'high' range of settings and going the extra mile to 'highest' on everything only hurts performance with little/no improvement in image quality. It's been a long-standing tradeoff between image quality and framerate, and STILL people think they can have EVERYTHING with BOTH - it simply doesn't work that way.

As for consoles - that's easily explained - they have custom dedicated hardware that is still less powerful than most modern graphics cards but the key is it's DEDICATED - and all the game developers write for the DEDICATED hardware that can then be code-path optimized for the specific console - not possible with the myriad of GPU's out there. Additionally, most console titles' graphics are dumbed-down to live within the limitaions of the console hardware. The X360 is capable of 'high-def' gaming - ok, so what is that? 1080p, right - so you are now in HIGH DEFINITION mode at roughly 1024x760 on a TV screen - hardly high resolution and if you turn your games down to that resolution on your PC you would probably find you COULD turn everything up that high and get good framerates. Additionally, if you compared two EXACT scenes from the same game on a PC and a console, you could probably tell which is which. The difference is in the tiny details that are added for PC's and are deleted for consoles, and you probably don't even notice in gameplay that the graphics are 'dumbed down' because the detail added in PC games doesn't make that much difference - again the difference between 'high' and 'highest'.

So be happy with your framerate, or turn down the resolution/settings if you can't be, but it sounds to me like your PC is working flawlessly.
June 19, 2006 6:35:10 PM

I understand but the thing is that when my performance drops in FEAR (especially maxfps) it will stay pretty much that way no matter how many times i run the test. For example the last drop from 165 down to 155. Its never going above 160fps now in the test. So when i get a sudden drop it remains pretty much that way. Thats why im worried..... You and StrangeStranger said that i will see it go back up after running the test a few times but that is not the case.
June 19, 2006 6:35:21 PM

A few things I would consider checking out:

- Windows Updates (maybe there is an update that is being installed after your fresh reformat which is crippleing your system. Check the number of processes in task manager and your memory footprint in task manager, and see if it changes once performance drops.)

- Heat.. If you knowtice that your framerates are higher when you first turn-on your system, maybe it is a heat issue. Hot chips run slower than well-cooled chips because heat causes higher electrical resistance and instability within the chip, litterally slowing down the speed at which electrons move around the chip. If you happen to be one of those people who never turn off your PC, perhaps try turning it off when not in use.

- Automatic software updates (same as windows updates, maybe theres another process comming into play on your system. Check your CPU usage.)

- GPU could be self-downclocking if it is over-clocked. I'm not sure about this one, but factory-OCed GPUs sometimes, if overheating, can be configured to revert to normal clock speeds if temperatures hit a certain point. This kind of goes with the heat thing..

Otherwise, I'd just say not to worry.. the "drop" in performance that you describe sounds very minor and is quite possibly a fluxuation.
June 19, 2006 6:45:47 PM

Let me get this straight... you're moaning about a 1-3FPS performance fluctuation with a 7800GTX in FEAR... and you're using onboard sound?

If you knew anything about building a PC you would look hard at getting a faster sound solution eg X-Fi. That will make a much bigger difference to your numbers AND let you run the sound at max settings.

Although nForce (soundstorm) made a pretty good stab at it, its widely known that onboard sound solutions generally put a crappy strain on the CPU in games.

The 3700+ you are using won't fully let the 7800GTX breathe anyway, so I'd heartily recommend a faster audio solution so your CPU can concentrate on the other stuff.
June 19, 2006 6:53:50 PM

Im getting a new CPU soon. Going for an Athlon x2 4800+ so that extra power will surely benifit. I might get a sound aswell but it will have to be a fairly cheap one cause i can only barely shell out for the new CPU.
June 19, 2006 6:53:52 PM

It seems the problem is YOU, you're expecting too much from your computer. A Console will give you a steady framerate.
June 19, 2006 6:59:14 PM

Quote:
No one seems to stop and think that even the grandest videocard on the planet will not run games like FEAR or Oblivion at 2048x1024 with HDR, 4XAA and 8XAF at playable framerates - right now game vendors have pushed the advantages of the new hardware beyond what the fastest is capable of doing completely maxxed out.

You'll find with most PC games - that extra 'HIGHEST' settings for stuff like AA and AF or even resolution increases don't make a tangible difference in how good the game gets. It looks it's 'best' somewhere in the 'medium' to 'high' range of settings and going the extra mile to 'highest' on everything only hurts performance with little/no improvement in image quality. It's been a long-standing tradeoff between image quality and framerate, and STILL people think they can have EVERYTHING with BOTH - it simply doesn't work that way.


You seem to have made the most logical post on these forumz in sometime. What's the point in spending $749US for a eVGA 7900ztfcvjfegssa or a ATI x19,000,000gtoprk graphics card and it not support 4/8AA or AF on games like Oblivion. Those like yourself understand this is rediculous and should view the XBOX 360 or the PS3 as the door to HIGH DEFINITION gaming (even though Microsoft pulled out the 'ole 12 incher and shafted us royally on the HD-DVD player). Obilivion was just ported to the XBOX 360 and it looks fabulous. So fabulous you can see the reflection of yourself in the eyeballs of your opponent.

Now tell me, can that eVGA card do that? Remember, jnjkele just told us no, it can't. Time and time again I keep saying the XBOX 360 is here and gaming is fabulous. You hardcore PC gamers out there are being stiffed viciously. Microsoft has made it so much easier (and lighter on the wallet) to enjoy the most demanding and funnest games. I beg you to spend that money and try out an XBOX 360. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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SunAngel - Clearing the forumz out...one noob at a time!
June 19, 2006 7:12:53 PM

That's not always the case. You can't get WoW or Guild Wars on anything but PC/Linux and Wine/Mac, and Doom 3 looks much better on a PC than it does on the XBox. Besides, people have fun juicing up the graphics on their custom-built rigs, or adding a liquid cooling system to lower their idle CPU temperatures by 15 degrees Celsius. It's much tougher to do on a console.

Plus, you can do much more on a PC. You can browse the web, post on the THG forums, do your homework so you can keep your scholarship and not flunk out of a private university, etc. If I had to choose between a PC and a console, I would choose the PC almost any day of the week. I would take the console if a Halo 2 party was involved, though, at least until Halo 2 is out for Vista.
June 19, 2006 7:27:16 PM

I will have to agree, I will take a PC anyday over a console. The PC can do way more than a console.
June 19, 2006 7:57:54 PM

Sounds like fragmentation to me. I recomend obtaining Diskeeper its a HD defrag program run the iFast option then run your tests again :)  I wouldnt be surprised to see your score go up even over a clean install.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b 4 Gaming
June 19, 2006 8:41:37 PM

Just quit your surfing on badbad sites... :lol: 
June 19, 2006 8:48:25 PM

Quote:
dont use the internet at all.
Yep, those porn sites will get ya every time. :wink:

LOL1 hahahahahaha! It's a built in feature. hahahahaha!

maybe jimi should turn his strat right side up and try this:

http://systemmechanic.com/sm/6/index.cfm

Jimi if you got that thing turned up, hit the 'try it 'fer free' buttom buddy.
June 19, 2006 9:19:16 PM

Quote:
I understand but the thing is that when my performance drops in FEAR (especially maxfps) it will stay pretty much that way no matter how many times i run the test. For example the last drop from 165 down to 155. Its never going above 160fps now in the test. So when i get a sudden drop it remains pretty much that way. Thats why im worried..... You and StrangeStranger said that i will see it go back up after running the test a few times but that is not the case.


what they are saying is that you should normally run 3 or even 5 trips through a benchmark and take the average to use as a "score"... and then that score is really only a ballpark. any difference of a few % points are irrelevent... look at any review site (including tom's here) and they consider those little differences to be equal in performance.

It really sounds like you are struggling w/ what you think a computer does. A while back you were freaking out b/c of a performance drop w/ your new lcd. The reality (if I remember correctly) was that the new lcd ran at a higher native res than your old monitor and thus performance dropped when you switched to it. I think you need to just calm down and enjoy the game instead of freaking over an imperceptable (w/o a benchmark) change.

games are just that... games. play w/ them, enjoy the stuff you have man. Dont give too much thought on what joe-uber-clocker is getting for performance, just play the game. oh, and dont take this as mee ripping on you, asking questions is all part of learning. just chill a bit. ;) 
June 19, 2006 9:27:19 PM

Try doing some basic statistics on your frame rates.

run your demo TEN TIMES.. yes 10. write down or record all the frame rate #s you get. then average them out.

if your game feels slow in the future. redo the tests. If your average frame rates have dropped off a lot (in this case a lot means 25% or more). Then you have a legit case of serious performance drops - come back here and we can help.
June 19, 2006 9:33:33 PM

yes!! all this talk of consoles giving you the "HD" experience makes me dizzy. comps have been progressive scan forever, and can run at much higher res w/ that "p" at the end than any console. and most comp monitors can go much higher than almost every "HD" tv out there that is limited to 1080i. Frankly, when I look at the distance shots in Ghost Recon AW or Oblivion the pc version of GRAW just monkey stomps on the 360 version (granted, a different engine...), and Oblivion has the same crappy textures out in the distance on both versions, just the pc version (on my card anyway) can use that higher res to see all the crapp-tacularness better. ;)  (the game is fantastic at close up distances though)

w/ better shooters and rts games the pc just does what I like, and does it better. Now if only games like fight night and doa4 would come over to the light the world would be perfect. ;) 
!