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CH FlightSim Yoke and Rudder Control

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Anonymous
September 12, 2005 1:43:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The CH Products' Flight Sim Yoke looks intriguing. I know they offer
pedals, too, but that costs a lot on top of an expensive yoke. What do
people with this yoke use for rudder control if you don't have the pedals?

Right now I have an old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick and it's convenient to
have the twisting-stick to control rudder. Just wondering what I'd have to
do about the rudders if I spent the money to switch to the yoke.

Thanks.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 1:43:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Put your sidewinder on the floor and twist it with your feet! HAHAHA.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 1:47:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I say don't waste your money on either. A little too much money for a
joystick. Why? becuase it looks like a flight yoke? A chunk of plastic
with some buttons. The bottom line is that flight yokes don't have the
consumer demand that joysticks or racing wheels have. So of course the
price is high. But is it really worth that? Not even close.
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Anonymous
September 12, 2005 5:28:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Actually, not a racing wheel, but a good quality joystick would be my
choice.

$615...wow. Thats a lot of cash for a joystick. I'm going to honest
with you. I've tried these expensive joysticks, and I also fly in the
"real" world. Your comparison makes me wonder if you possibly bumped
your head. Realism? no...I don't think so. Quality? perhaps, but no
more than any other joystick. A figment of your imagination? Probably.
Your trying to convince yourself that you didn't waste $615.

Anyway, enough wasted time on the small minded. I offered my opinon to
Matt (and only Matt) (cause he asked) and Matt can do whatever he likes.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 6:41:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Matt B." <none@given> wrote in message news:9CfVe.2465$6Z3.1977@fe06.lga...
> The CH Products' Flight Sim Yoke looks intriguing. I know they offer
> pedals, too, but that costs a lot on top of an expensive yoke. What do
> people with this yoke use for rudder control if you don't have the pedals?
>
> Right now I have an old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick and it's convenient
> to have the twisting-stick to control rudder. Just wondering what I'd
> have to do about the rudders if I spent the money to switch to the yoke.
>
> Thanks.

The addition of rudder in the controller scenario gives the sim pilot
realism and immersion not found in any other way. You can duplicate the
rudder function without pedals, but for the avid flight sim enthusiast, much
of the feeling of true flight is lost. This is especially true if you have
any crosswind turned on in the sim settings. Rudder is also becoming more
and more prevalent in flight modeling as developers find ways to make the
flight model even more realistic. I have little doubt that in the next
version of MSFS, rudder will play an even more active part than it does now.
I strongly suggest that if at all possible cost wise, you consider pedals
seriously as an addition to your controller setup.
CH Products builds very high quality controllers. I have used them for some
time with 0 issues.
Dudley Henriques
September 12, 2005 6:46:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

PhantomFlyer wrote:
> I say don't waste your money on either. A little too much money for a
> joystick. Why? becuase it looks like a flight yoke? A chunk of
> plastic with some buttons. The bottom line is that flight yokes don't
> have the consumer demand that joysticks or racing wheels have. So of
> course the price is high. But is it really worth that? Not even close.

Well gee whiz - wish I knew that when I shelled out over $500 for a PFC yoke
five years ago, then another $115 (?) for Pro Pedals two years ago.. I
guess the sheer enjoyment of quality componets and the realism provided is
just a figment of my imagination......
Should have paid more attention to "consumer demand" got some cheap ass
racing wheels instead, huh????????????
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 7:28:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

If I could buy only one, I would go for the pedals. You will be amazed at
how much easier it is to do coordinated turns, crosswind landings and normal
takeoffs when you have a set of pedals. As a bonus they also provide
independent toe brakes which are also handy. Some aircraft like the Scout
and SF260 use a joystick with pedals so you will still have a good setup.

RobP

"Matt B." <none@given> wrote in message news:9CfVe.2465$6Z3.1977@fe06.lga...
> The CH Products' Flight Sim Yoke looks intriguing. I know they offer
> pedals, too, but that costs a lot on top of an expensive yoke. What do
> people with this yoke use for rudder control if you don't have the pedals?
>
> Right now I have an old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick and it's convenient
> to have the twisting-stick to control rudder. Just wondering what I'd
> have to do about the rudders if I spent the money to switch to the yoke.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 7:29:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I agree, if you can only afford one go for the pedals. I adds a lot of
realism to the rudder and now you can have variable differential braking
(instead of the on-or-off braking you get with buttons).

"ROBERT POLLARD" <RobertAPollard@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%8hVe.53999$2n6.5785@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> If I could buy only one, I would go for the pedals. You will be amazed at
> how much easier it is to do coordinated turns, crosswind landings and
> normal takeoffs when you have a set of pedals. As a bonus they also
> provide independent toe brakes which are also handy. Some aircraft like
> the Scout and SF260 use a joystick with pedals so you will still have a
> good setup.
>
> RobP
>
> "Matt B." <none@given> wrote in message
> news:9CfVe.2465$6Z3.1977@fe06.lga...
>> The CH Products' Flight Sim Yoke looks intriguing. I know they offer
>> pedals, too, but that costs a lot on top of an expensive yoke. What do
>> people with this yoke use for rudder control if you don't have the
>> pedals?
>>
>> Right now I have an old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick and it's convenient
>> to have the twisting-stick to control rudder. Just wondering what I'd
>> have to do about the rudders if I spent the money to switch to the yoke.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 7:58:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Critique is one thing, what the crash said, was another. He just had to
be a smart ass. I just offered my opinion of what I thought of the
product. If someone wants to say something. fine, but you don't have to
be rude and ignorant about it. (small minded). Too many people that
think they know everything, and if someone says something that they
don't like, they can't provide an intelligent answer in a civilized
fashion, so they start attacking. But all this is just Greek to people
like you.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 9:02:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Racing wheel pedals work well enough for me. No toe breaks etc. I
sprung for the cheapest force feedback joystick I could get (logitech
force 3d), and use that with the racing wheel pedals since you can set
up multiple controllers. About 1/5th of the cost of the pro setup.

It's not like I don't spend money either. I bought a pair of 19" CRTs
to go with my older one so I could do 3 screen and upgraded my video
card to a 6600GT. I'm just not willing to go for top of the range LCDs
and a 7800GT because for me its all about bang for buck.

But then again I'm not a real world pilot. I might be more inclined to
spend big money if I were training to be one.
September 12, 2005 9:25:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

PhantomFlyer wrote:
> Actually, not a racing wheel, but a good quality joystick would be my
> choice.
>
> $615...wow. Thats a lot of cash for a joystick. I'm going to honest
> with you. I've tried these expensive joysticks, and I also fly in the
> "real" world. Your comparison makes me wonder if you possibly bumped
> your head. Realism? no...I don't think so. Quality? perhaps, but no
> more than any other joystick. A figment of your imagination? Probably.
> Your trying to convince yourself that you didn't waste $615.
>
> Anyway, enough wasted time on the small minded. I offered my opinon to
> Matt (and only Matt) (cause he asked) and Matt can do whatever he
> likes.


hehehhehe - I could have saved you the time and wrote that totally
predictable response for you...
Forgot to mention for aircraft actually using a stick, a CH 568 Combatstick
USB is used, and I misspoke on the PFC price, it was actually closer to $600
with shipping. And worth every damn penny! That's not being braggadocio,
just stating the facts. If you "honestly" can't tell the difference, that's
fine, it's your choice, but don't get too pious with those that can.
I prefer to emmerse myself into the "simulator" as close to reality as
possible; however, if one wants to play a "game", then some cheapie
joystick will get you by - and joysticks come in all flavors also - with
choices from absolute junk, very adequate, to fine precsion instruments with
prices to match.
Realism? I too have several hundred hours of "real" world time in GA, and
several hundred hours as a back seat driver flying of carriers, probably
before you were born (somehow just a hunch :) , so I do have a inkling of
what's real and what's not.
Small minded? BAAHAHAHAHA................................

Matt - a CH yoke & pedals would be a wise choice!
September 12, 2005 10:26:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:41:07 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:

>"Matt B." <none@given> wrote:
>> The CH Products' Flight Sim Yoke looks intriguing. I know they offer
>> pedals, too, but that costs a lot on top of an expensive yoke. What do
>> people with this yoke use for rudder control if you don't have the pedals?
>>
>> Right now I have an old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick and it's convenient
>> to have the twisting-stick to control rudder. Just wondering what I'd
>> have to do about the rudders if I spent the money to switch to the yoke.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>Rudder is also becoming more and more prevalent in flight modeling
>as developers find ways to make the flight model even more realistic.
>

Tuning Yaw/Roll coupling is a challenge. Rudder effect on Roll,
Aileron effect on Yaw, Sim Weather effect on Roll and Yaw, etc.
When a control moment is changed, the corresponding damping coeff
often needs tweaking.

If MS would document their Flight Model (such as with SDK) then a
simultaneous solution could be developed. That would be like a
high-end, second source FSEdit.

Let's put it this way.. if the FD is tuned using real-world SDs.. then
FS style weather bounces the flight around terribly. Its the kind of
AIR file that Ron makes, loose and ringing. Then efforts are needed to
`stiffen it back up'. Good thing we're talking to a beta team member!!


Cheers,

-Gregory
September 12, 2005 10:50:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

PhantomFlyer wrote:
>attacking.



BAAAHHHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHA!!
September 12, 2005 11:10:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 12 Sep 2005 09:47:23 -0700, "PhantomFlyer"
<adam.boffa@sympatico.ca> brought the following to our attention:

>I say don't waste your money on either. A little too much money for a
>joystick. Why? becuase it looks like a flight yoke? A chunk of plastic
>with some buttons. The bottom line is that flight yokes don't have the
>consumer demand that joysticks or racing wheels have. So of course the
>price is high. But is it really worth that? Not even close.

Got my CH pedals and yoke a long time ago.. maybe 10 years. Don't
remember the exact year or price. They are Gameport which gives a
clue as to their age. Have almost never used the yoke because it's
too much in the way -- clamped in front of the monitor. Where would
the keyboard go? And how to work all the shortcut keys?

The pedals were used a LOT.. and the CH mini-stick (for spoilers) can
be ganged on top of the pedals gameport connector. Maybe I'll get the
pedals out and re-connect. Just that they take up foot room (become a
footrest) on the floor. Or could just keep twisting the MS-SWP2. :) 

-G
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 12:30:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks to all for the varied responses. It'll give me something to think
about before I decide to buy any hardware or not.

Of course, there's always those neat-looking scenery packages that one could
spend money on. too... :-)
September 13, 2005 6:53:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

syousef@bigpond.net.au wrote:
> Racing wheel pedals work well enough for me. No toe breaks etc. I
> sprung for the cheapest force feedback joystick I could get (logitech
> force 3d), and use that with the racing wheel pedals since you can set
> up multiple controllers. About 1/5th of the cost of the pro setup.


I was thinking that the racing pedals I use feel fine to me in a
helicopter. As Si can now tell us, moving one control requires the
pilot to move all controls to maintain coordination when flying a given
profile.



--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
!