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harsh OTs

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September 13, 2005 4:11:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
"what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.

So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
properties (weather), and world geography!!

btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)


-Gregory

More about : harsh ots

Anonymous
September 13, 2005 4:11:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gttdi11qq66tercgbm98ib4pk97l3hbgjr@4ax.com...
> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.

I do agree with you even though I am one of them posting such OT posts.
They may be hot topics, but I don't consider them dangerous. The world is
already a dangerous place, always has been,...it is just more people are
figuring it out. At least the OT posts seems to have remain within the one
thread on Gas Prices for the most part. That isn't going to kill anybody.
There will always be OT posts, its just life in the newsgroups, and in
todays climate I'm actually surpised there isn't more of it than there is.

And what good is a quiet, piecefull, on-topic, political discussion?...how
boring. They are supposed to be loud, wild, and off topic :-)

> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)

I'm not aware of it being done as a practice. It could stretch out the
landing if you needed to do that,...however the "ground effect" is already
holding the plane off the ground somewhat and delaying touchdown,...adding
thrust may aggravate that and make it worse.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.h...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 4:11:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I guess some people just can't grasp the concept behind a newsgroup.
I'm sure, you could find a newgroup that your topic acctually fits in,
but I guess thats either too much to ask, or too complicated for you.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 6:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

It's too complicated.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.h...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------



"PhantomFlyer" <adam.boffa@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1126633663.933850.46320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I guess some people just can't grasp the concept behind a newsgroup.
> I'm sure, you could find a newgroup that your topic acctually fits in,
> but I guess thats either too much to ask, or too complicated for you.
>
September 13, 2005 7:03:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Phillip Windell wrote:
> It's too complicated.
>
:-)

I'm getting the feeling we have a new troll lurking about, starting around
8/24....
Cheers'n Beers... [_])
Don
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 9:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gttdi11qq66tercgbm98ib4pk97l3hbgjr@4ax.com...
>
> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>
> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>
> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>
>
> -Gregory

Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
Thank you very much.
Dudley Henriques
September 13, 2005 9:09:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:

>
>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>
>>
>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>
>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>
>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>
>>
>> -Gregory
>
>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>Thank you very much.
>Dudley Henriques
>

hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
or any one post.

Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'


In part it said:

thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.


-Gregory
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 9:09:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.

Yes, commercial flights,...and in the extremes such as carier landings as
others had pointed out, but I was judging it on my experiences with
Microsoft Flight Simulator with the smaller General Aviation Planes. I had
no past "context" to put the question in and did the best I could with it
and was trying to stay on-topic since I've been beaten with lashes for not
doing so,...the group is
"alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim" after all ;-)


--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.h...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/20...

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 9:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and to
some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end the
approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance aircraft,
especially jets, thrust is required in the approach configuration.
It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring" the
airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get it
just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit high
through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can solve this
issue.
Hope this helps
Dudley
"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>
>>
>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>
>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>
>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>
>>>
>>> -Gregory
>>
>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>Thank you very much.
>>Dudley Henriques
>>
>
> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
> or any one post.
>
> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>
>
> In part it said:
>
> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>
>
> -Gregory
>
September 13, 2005 9:53:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dudley

In the case of carrier jets I understand they apply full power on touch down
in the event the hook doesnt catch and a go around is required.
Is that correct?
Bill


"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
> configuration.
> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
> touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
> touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring"
> the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
> accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get
> it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit
> high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can
> solve this issue.
> Hope this helps
> Dudley
> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>
>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>
>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Gregory
>>>
>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>Thank you very much.
>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>
>>
>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>> or any one post.
>>
>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>
>>
>> In part it said:
>>
>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>
>>
>> -Gregory
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 11:21:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Yes. On a carrier touchdown, a positive sink is held right through
weight-on-wheels and power is applied at touchdown in case of a 3 wire
bolter. You can engage on the 4 wire but if the 3 is missed, an engagement
on 4 is touchy as the mains will have compressed and be reacting to the
bounce. As soon as the aircraft hits the deck, you go to full thrust. If the
3 wire is nailed, you stopcock the throttle if not, you're off the angle
deck with a positive rate of climb.
DH
"William" <alone@home.com> wrote in message
news:QoFVe.1892$Ve1.1616@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Dudley
>
> In the case of carrier jets I understand they apply full power on touch
> down in the event the hook doesnt catch and a go around is required.
> Is that correct?
> Bill
>
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
>> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
>> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
>> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
>> configuration.
>> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
>> touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
>> touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring"
>> the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
>> accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get
>> it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit
>> high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can
>> solve this issue.
>> Hope this helps
>> Dudley
>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>>
>>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>
>>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not
>>>>too
>>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>>Thank you very much.
>>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>>
>>>
>>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>>> or any one post.
>>>
>>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>>
>>>
>>> In part it said:
>>>
>>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Gregory
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:20:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

A similar thing is valid for "heavy iron". Although wingloading is by far
not as high as on fighters some A/C need a certain amount of power during
flare. I remember e.g. a nose-heavy DC9-51 could never be flared without
adding some power as the additional downforce of the elevator (remember: the
elevator produces negative lift when rotating the nose up...!) would
virtually slam the A/C to the RWY. Two facors will help in this case: First
the additional thrust will prevent an excessive speed blow-back in a very
high-drag configuration and second the thrust vector pointing upwards will
also help with it's vertical component. However modern A/C (especially
fly-by-wire A/C) don't have such extreme COG locations and also not so high
wingloadings anymore. I remember a TWA guy (quite a few years go....)
telling me from his B727 experience that it must have been quite similar to
the DC9. Hope this helps a bit.
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
> configuration.
> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
> touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
> touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring"
> the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
> accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get
> it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit
> high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can
> solve this issue.
> Hope this helps
> Dudley
> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>
>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>
>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Gregory
>>>
>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>Thank you very much.
>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>
>>
>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>> or any one post.
>>
>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>
>>
>> In part it said:
>>
>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>
>>
>> -Gregory
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 1:20:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Oskar;

With the F104 drivers, it was REALLY touchy. The airplane is fuselage mass
loaded as you know I'm sure, and that fuselage is VERY long in relation to
the wings. On final, you balanced the airplane literally on the power
setting, raising up the %RPM as landing flaps were selected. If everything
was just right, you ended up over the threshold at about 90% on speed for
the fuel remaining GW. You CAREFULLY eased the zipper onto the ground by
GENTLY increasing pitch against power reduction trying to keep everything
within a very small touchdown envelope so that you didn't hit the tail. In
degrees of pitch, you didn't have all that much to work with in this
airplane.
I remember having this feeling the day I put a stretch DC8 down in Alaska.
"Oh Lord", I thought as I eased it down, "don't let me pull this thing TOO
far back" :-))
That day gave me a whole new appreciation for how good you guys are in those
"slightly larger" machines you love so much :-)))
Dudley
"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:D g78pa$jls$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>A similar thing is valid for "heavy iron". Although wingloading is by far
>not as high as on fighters some A/C need a certain amount of power during
>flare. I remember e.g. a nose-heavy DC9-51 could never be flared without
>adding some power as the additional downforce of the elevator (remember:
>the elevator produces negative lift when rotating the nose up...!) would
>virtually slam the A/C to the RWY. Two facors will help in this case: First
>the additional thrust will prevent an excessive speed blow-back in a very
>high-drag configuration and second the thrust vector pointing upwards will
>also help with it's vertical component. However modern A/C (especially
>fly-by-wire A/C) don't have such extreme COG locations and also not so high
>wingloadings anymore. I remember a TWA guy (quite a few years go....)
>telling me from his B727 experience that it must have been quite similar to
>the DC9. Hope this helps a bit.
> --
> Oskar Wagner
> (retired Captain)
>
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
>> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
>> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
>> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
>> configuration.
>> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
>> touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
>> touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring"
>> the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
>> accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get
>> it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit
>> high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can
>> solve this issue.
>> Hope this helps
>> Dudley
>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>>
>>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>>
>>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>
>>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not
>>>>too
>>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>>Thank you very much.
>>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>>
>>>
>>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>>> or any one post.
>>>
>>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>>
>>>
>>> In part it said:
>>>
>>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Gregory
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
September 14, 2005 1:20:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:30:37 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>
>Hi Oskar;
>
>With the F104 drivers, it was REALLY touchy. The airplane is fuselage mass
>loaded as you know I'm sure, and that fuselage is VERY long in relation to
>the wings. On final, you balanced the airplane literally on the power
>setting, raising up the %RPM as landing flaps were selected. If everything
>was just right, you ended up over the threshold at about 90% on speed for
>the fuel remaining GW. You CAREFULLY eased the zipper onto the ground by
>GENTLY increasing pitch against power reduction trying to keep everything
>within a very small touchdown envelope so that you didn't hit the tail. In
>degrees of pitch, you didn't have all that much to work with in this
>airplane.
>
>I remember having this feeling the day I put a stretch DC8 down in Alaska.
>"Oh Lord", I thought as I eased it down, "don't let me pull this thing TOO far back" :-))
>
>That day gave me a whole new appreciation for how good you guys are in those
>"slightly larger" machines you love so much :-)))
>Dudley
>
>"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
>
>>A similar thing is valid for "heavy iron". Although wingloading is by far
>>not as high as on fighters some A/C need a certain amount of power during
>>flare. I remember e.g. a nose-heavy DC9-51 could never be flared without
>>adding some power as the additional downforce of the elevator (remember:
>>the elevator produces negative lift when rotating the nose up...!) would
>>virtually slam the A/C to the RWY. Two factors will help in this case: First
>>the additional thrust will prevent an excessive speed blow-back in a very
>>high-drag configuration ...

speed blow-back, does that mean loss of speed when cutting power?

>> and....... second the thrust vector pointing upwards will
>>also help with it's vertical component. However modern A/C (especially
>>fly-by-wire A/C) don't have such extreme COG locations and also not so high
>>wingloadings anymore. I remember a TWA guy (quite a few years go....)
>>telling me from his B727 experience that it must have been quite similar to
>>the DC9.

Have read stories (unverified) that the 727 will drop like a `sack of
rocks' if the throttles are cut too soon. It definitely happened on a
Southwest 737 which I was riding.. ka-thud!!

>>Hope this helps a bit.
>> --
>> Oskar Wagner
>> (retired Captain)
>>
>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>>
>> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>
>>> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
>>> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
>>> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
>>> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach configuration.
>>>
>>> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just before
>>> touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft, actual
>>> touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by "flaring"
>>> the airplane.

getting better landings in FS (and more of them) using a bit of
extra power in the last few seconds before touchdown.

>>> The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust needed to
>>> accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get
>>> it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is going to be a bit
>>> high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right time on final can
>>> solve this issue.

Got all that.. thanks!

`ground effect' (GE).. was wondering if TWO examples of GE can be
identified. 1st, a wing/fuse type with High GE, and 2nd, a wing/fuse
type with Low GE. Is this factor important or prominent enough to look
into (for FS tuning)?

-Gregory

>>> Hope this helps
>>> Dudley
>>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>>>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not too
>>>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question? Thank you very much.
>>>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>>>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>>>> or any one post.
>>>>
>>>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>>>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In part it said:
>>>>
>>>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>>>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>>>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Gregory
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 2:34:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 13 Sep 2005 10:47:43 -0700, PhantomFlyer wrote:

> I guess some people just can't grasp the concept behind a newsgroup.
> I'm sure, you could find a newgroup that your topic acctually fits in,
> but I guess thats either too much to ask, or too complicated for you.

That doesn't always work.

Lots of noobs pop in here, post a question and then get yelled at for not
digging into the history of this group to see if that question may or may
not have been posted in the past.

I was looking for information on a Ford LTD, looked up a Ford ng, used
Google Groups to look up some keywords and then posted.
I quickly received my answer, thanked them and took off again.

A regular will post an OT question here because he/she knows that there's
always someone here that may have the answer or post a link to a website
that may provide further information. So it's therefor not always necessary
to visit another ng.

I chose to post my query in the Ford ng because I knew that that's where
I'd find the experts.

Politics and religion are topics that are different and often very
aggresively debated in whatever group.
Even here you have to watch out if you want to make fun of a politician.
Fortunately I got away scott-free when I called Bush a Muppet. :-)

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
Elwood: "It's a 106 miles to Chicago, we've gotta full tank of gas, a half
pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses."
Jake: "Hit it!"
September 14, 2005 3:10:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

For what its worth and speaking for myself ... I don't mind the kinda OT
that has went on here in the past, its rarely delved into political matters
and that's great. I've seen other newsgroups completely derailed forever
because of OT politics, lets face it, politics is one thing that people will
rarely agree on, so long as politics stays out of this group I'm quite
happy.

Cheers.

Colin
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:01:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Dudley!
Mhhhh, I think you cheated a bit on us as you said that you never flew
anything larger than your house......or your house is quite big (at least
the size of a streched DC8..) :-)))
I agree, our "big iron" is still quite "aircraft-like" in terms of
aerodynamical behaviour especially upon landing, contradictory to the real
"hot stuff" where you need a lot of thrust vector for a stable landing
approach. I recently saw some footage about carrier landings and I still
wonder how someone can hit this extremely narrow gap ....and even aiming for
a specific arrester cable! (I recall that a guy mentioned the second or
third cable being the target....don't remember which one it was). So I'm
quite happy about our landing target window of 300 m.... :-))
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:xNFVe.11809$FW1.11787@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Hi Oskar;
>
> With the F104 drivers, it was REALLY touchy. The airplane is fuselage mass
> loaded as you know I'm sure, and that fuselage is VERY long in relation to
> the wings. On final, you balanced the airplane literally on the power
> setting, raising up the %RPM as landing flaps were selected. If everything
> was just right, you ended up over the threshold at about 90% on speed for
> the fuel remaining GW. You CAREFULLY eased the zipper onto the ground by
> GENTLY increasing pitch against power reduction trying to keep everything
> within a very small touchdown envelope so that you didn't hit the tail. In
> degrees of pitch, you didn't have all that much to work with in this
> airplane.
> I remember having this feeling the day I put a stretch DC8 down in Alaska.
> "Oh Lord", I thought as I eased it down, "don't let me pull this thing TOO
> far back" :-))
> That day gave me a whole new appreciation for how good you guys are in
> those "slightly larger" machines you love so much :-)))
> Dudley
> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> news:D g78pa$jls$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>>A similar thing is valid for "heavy iron". Although wingloading is by far
>>not as high as on fighters some A/C need a certain amount of power during
>>flare. I remember e.g. a nose-heavy DC9-51 could never be flared without
>>adding some power as the additional downforce of the elevator (remember:
>>the elevator produces negative lift when rotating the nose up...!) would
>>virtually slam the A/C to the RWY. Two facors will help in this case:
>>First the additional thrust will prevent an excessive speed blow-back in a
>>very high-drag configuration and second the thrust vector pointing upwards
>>will also help with it's vertical component. However modern A/C
>>(especially fly-by-wire A/C) don't have such extreme COG locations and
>>also not so high wingloadings anymore. I remember a TWA guy (quite a few
>>years go....) telling me from his B727 experience that it must have been
>>quite similar to the DC9. Hope this helps a bit.
>> --
>> Oskar Wagner
>> (retired Captain)
>>
>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>>
>> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach and
>>> to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually end
>>> the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
>>> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
>>> configuration.
>>> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just
>>> before touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft,
>>> actual touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by
>>> "flaring" the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust
>>> needed to accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit
>>> tricky to get it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is
>>> going to be a bit high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right
>>> time on final can solve this issue.
>>> Hope this helps
>>> Dudley
>>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>>>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
>>>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
>>>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
>>>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not
>>>>>too
>>>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>>>Thank you very much.
>>>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>>>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>>>> or any one post.
>>>>
>>>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>>>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In part it said:
>>>>
>>>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>>>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>>>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Gregory
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2005 4:01:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

It's the #3 wire that makes for a good carrier landing. Really, the only way
to hit it is by flying the ball with a behind the curve approach, which is
normally a 3 degree glide slope but can be set up for 2.5.
I don't really count my DC8 landing as a normal flight above house size :-)
as I was a guest on the trip and flew the approach under the supervision of
the normal Captain, a good friend. We were dead heading the airplane to
Anchorage and no pax were on board. It was my only transgression outside my
own world, and I have to admit, I still remember that landing gave me a real
good feeling about flying something that large.
Dudley
"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:D g7i7a$pgt$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> Hi Dudley!
> Mhhhh, I think you cheated a bit on us as you said that you never flew
> anything larger than your house......or your house is quite big (at least
> the size of a streched DC8..) :-)))
> I agree, our "big iron" is still quite "aircraft-like" in terms of
> aerodynamical behaviour especially upon landing, contradictory to the real
> "hot stuff" where you need a lot of thrust vector for a stable landing
> approach. I recently saw some footage about carrier landings and I still
> wonder how someone can hit this extremely narrow gap ....and even aiming
> for a specific arrester cable! (I recall that a guy mentioned the second
> or third cable being the target....don't remember which one it was). So
> I'm quite happy about our landing target window of 300 m.... :-))
> --
> Oskar Wagner
> (retired Captain)
>
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:xNFVe.11809$FW1.11787@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Hi Oskar;
>>
>> With the F104 drivers, it was REALLY touchy. The airplane is fuselage
>> mass loaded as you know I'm sure, and that fuselage is VERY long in
>> relation to the wings. On final, you balanced the airplane literally on
>> the power setting, raising up the %RPM as landing flaps were selected. If
>> everything was just right, you ended up over the threshold at about 90%
>> on speed for the fuel remaining GW. You CAREFULLY eased the zipper onto
>> the ground by GENTLY increasing pitch against power reduction trying to
>> keep everything within a very small touchdown envelope so that you didn't
>> hit the tail. In degrees of pitch, you didn't have all that much to work
>> with in this airplane.
>> I remember having this feeling the day I put a stretch DC8 down in
>> Alaska.
>> "Oh Lord", I thought as I eased it down, "don't let me pull this thing
>> TOO far back" :-))
>> That day gave me a whole new appreciation for how good you guys are in
>> those "slightly larger" machines you love so much :-)))
>> Dudley
>> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
>> news:D g78pa$jls$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>>>A similar thing is valid for "heavy iron". Although wingloading is by far
>>>not as high as on fighters some A/C need a certain amount of power during
>>>flare. I remember e.g. a nose-heavy DC9-51 could never be flared without
>>>adding some power as the additional downforce of the elevator (remember:
>>>the elevator produces negative lift when rotating the nose up...!) would
>>>virtually slam the A/C to the RWY. Two facors will help in this case:
>>>First the additional thrust will prevent an excessive speed blow-back in
>>>a very high-drag configuration and second the thrust vector pointing
>>>upwards will also help with it's vertical component. However modern A/C
>>>(especially fly-by-wire A/C) don't have such extreme COG locations and
>>>also not so high wingloadings anymore. I remember a TWA guy (quite a few
>>>years go....) telling me from his B727 experience that it must have been
>>>quite similar to the DC9. Hope this helps a bit.
>>> --
>>> Oskar Wagner
>>> (retired Captain)
>>>
>>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>>>
>>> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>> news:imEVe.11301$_84.1152@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>> Thrust in high performance airplanes is carried through the approach
>>>> and to some degree through touchdown. In light GA aircraft, you usually
>>>> end the approach in a glide with power at idle, but in high performance
>>>> aircraft, especially jets, thrust is required in the approach
>>>> configuration.
>>>> It's not uncommon that a slight addition of thrust is applied just
>>>> before touchdown in high performance airplanes. With these aircraft,
>>>> actual touchdown is made by controlling the sink rate rather than by
>>>> "flaring" the airplane. The trick is to have the exact amount of thrust
>>>> needed to accomplish this for the configuration. It's sometimes a bit
>>>> tricky to get it just right, and if the pilot sees the sink rate is
>>>> going to be a bit high through the touchdown, some thrust at the right
>>>> time on final can solve this issue.
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>> Dudley
>>>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:t53ei1tvq2jsfutdefookehv6atv15qduf@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:09:00 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
>>>>> <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
>>>>>>> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
>>>>>>> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous
>>>>>>> subjects
>>>>>>> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
>>>>>>> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight,
>>>>>>> ops
>>>>>>> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
>>>>>>> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can you expound a bit for me on exactly what you mean by "if it's not
>>>>>>too
>>>>>>much trouble" before I attempt to answer your question?
>>>>>>Thank you very much.
>>>>>>Dudley Henriques
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> hello Dudley.. hope you're well today. Was ummm, just making up a
>>>>> couple new acronyms, yes sir That's it.. not directed towards anybody
>>>>> or any one post.
>>>>>
>>>>> Had a reply all set for Phillip.. but held back from Sending and saved
>>>>> as text instead.. always ask `do I really want to send this out!!'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In part it said:
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks..that's a useful reply. Most tuners (even leading ones) go with
>>>>> the default `ground effect' AIR table. Have been on several commercial
>>>>> flights where thrust was applied just prior to touchdown.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Gregory
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
September 14, 2005 4:01:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:01:21 +0200, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:

>Hi Dudley!
>Mhhhh, I think you cheated a bit on us as you said that you never flew
>anything larger than your house......or your house is quite big (at least
>the size of a streched DC8..) :-)))

LOL .. `larger than your house!!' seem to remember reading a long
time ago (like in the late '80s) the DC8 handled like a `truck'. The
words used by AWST were something like `man handle' or `lots of
force required' on the column or yoke.

The United DC8 that I rode on as a passenger.. there was a loud SNAP
when the main gear touched down. Kinda' scary like something broke in
a serious way.

-Gregory

p.s. If you're getting blisters.. that means
your gloves are worn out!! :) 

>I agree, our "big iron" is still quite "aircraft-like" in terms of
>aerodynamical behaviour especially upon landing, contradictory to the real
>"hot stuff" where you need a lot of thrust vector for a stable landing
>approach. I recently saw some footage about carrier landings and I still
>wonder how someone can hit this extremely narrow gap ....and even aiming for
>a specific arrester cable! (I recall that a guy mentioned the second or
>third cable being the target....don't remember which one it was). So I'm
>quite happy about our landing target window of 300 m.... :-))
September 14, 2005 5:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Marcel wrote: "Even here you have to watch out if you want to make fun
of a politician.
Fortunately I got away scott-free when I called Bush a Muppet. :-)

Hi Marcel,

You may feel you did..............but mature and sane judgement used by
many of our beloved newsgroup readers prevented posting of a nasty
reply!!

Personally I'd rather stick to flying than debating
politics..............unless I have a few cold ones first!! [:0)

Propwash
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:14:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:45:44 -0400, Beech45Whiskey wrote:

> Marcel Kuijper <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lots of noobs pop in here, post a question and then get yelled at for not
>> digging into the history of this group to see if that question may or may
>> not have been posted in the past.
>
> I disagree. This group is *extremely* tolerant and accepting of noobs
> popping in and asking what turns out to be very common newsgroup questions.
>
> If you don't believe me just search this group with Google for the "FS9 No
> CD hack location." You will find that just about every request (and there
> are a lot) was answered with a link to the hack, not a negative response.

And yet there are many other examples where noobs were told to RTFM (or
actually start at the Learning Center) or use Google to look up the answer.

Once upon a time a former regular named "Betchakankan" wrote an FS FAQ and
it was update several times using input from other users.
It was very succesful.

What we actually need to do sometime, and it's been discussed several times
in the recent past, is to bring back that semi-tradition.
There are a few sites that some of us know (myself not included) that have
pretty much dedicated themselves to holding FAQ-type information.

So what we could, or even should, do is post the links to those sites at
least once a week. That way we keep the noobs happy and up-to-date and at
the same time we can keep our cool because we don't have to answer the same
damn questions over and over again.

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(Any landing you walk away from wasn't one of Melissa's! <g>)
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:25:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 14 Sep 2005 01:20:26 -0700, Propwash wrote:

> You may feel you did..............but mature and sane judgement used by
> many of our beloved newsgroup readers prevented posting of a nasty
> reply!!

Or maybe I've earned the required points necessary for a major slip-up,
waddaya think? ;-)


> Personally I'd rather stick to flying than debating politics..............
> unless I have a few cold ones first!! [:0)

I don't mind an OT thread every once in a while (hell...half of the threads
here become OT real fast), it breaks the monotony, but some of them have a
tone to them...and as soon as I see that tone I steer clear of the whole
thread. We have a thread with such a tone in this group right now and it
has created a large, hateful gap between two regulars (who both have a
healthy sense of humor) and one of the those regulars is showing a type of
anger I never thought the man could have. I knew from his initial reaction
that the thread was more personal to him than it was to many others.

So I stay away from the thread and for two reasons: I don't feel like
sharing my opinion about on such a topic, but mostly because I don't want
to take sides.

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(DIE JEDI DOGS!!!...What did I say?? - C3PO)
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:34:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> As someone who continues to answer commonly-asked questions with actual
> answers, I disagree with your observation in this particular newsgroup and
> we will have to leave it at that. :) 


Well, I answer commonly asked questions, as they are usually the only ones I
know the answers to, because I have read them so often.
Very useful for pretending one knows more than one really does...:-)

Quilly
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 2:34:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D ga8hv$1st$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>
>
>> As someone who continues to answer commonly-asked questions with actual
>> answers, I disagree with your observation in this particular newsgroup
>> and
>> we will have to leave it at that. :) 
>
>
> Well, I answer commonly asked questions, as they are usually the only ones
> I know the answers to, because I have read them so often.
> Very useful for pretending one knows more than one really does...:-)
>
> Quilly
>
When I stumbled back into FS after a decade or so of absense, I checked th
'net for resources. One thing I did was read the entire archive of this
group from my news server, going back several years. I did not closely read
every single post, of course, but I quickly gained a feeling of what was
going on in the MSFS community. Tips from here sent me off on the ever
downward spiral of FS addiction. I guess that's a good thing.

I don't post much here, since it is rare that I know more about a topic than
the regulars.

I know Dudley from rec.aviation.military, which has really sunk into the
grip of kneejerk (left AND right) politics. Of course, wars are inherently
both military and political, so I guess that's to be expected.

This is actually a really civil NG, and I don't even mind reading about sick
dogs.

Bob McKellar
September 15, 2005 2:51:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Marcel wrote: So I stay away from the thread and for two reasons: I
don't feel like
sharing my opinion about on such a topic, but mostly because I don't
want
to take sides.

Hi Marcel,
I agree. I love a good debate, and especially the accompanying humor
that is sometimes generated in the process. As you stated, it sure
breaks up the monotony. I feel bad when it turns nasty and gets out of
hand. It's nice to be able to voice an opinion, as long as it's stated
as such, and hopefully doesn't offend someone................unless
they really have it coming, that is! [:0)

That's one of the things that places this newsgroup high above most.
Except for the occasionally troll, the participants in this group show
a lot of class, and I have a lot of respect for, and am deeply
appreciative, of the experience, knowledge, and assistance that is
regularly shared here.


Have a good one,
Prop
September 15, 2005 3:27:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:34:39 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following:

>Very useful for pretending one knows more than one really does.. :-)
>
>Quilly


now who would do anything like that? ;<)

-Gregory
Anonymous
September 15, 2005 1:00:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I say that's enough navel gazing now guys. Too much of this and we'll all
crash into sticky-up bits of ground.


Cheers,

Quilly

Sorry, but an individual reply goes into my spam filter
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 2:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:14:09 -0400, Beech45Whiskey wrote:

> As someone who continues to answer commonly-asked questions with actual
> answers, I disagree with your observation in this particular newsgroup and
> we will have to leave it at that. :) 

Okay, but I get the final word......

Personally I get a big kick out of reading replies from some of you more
experienced simmers, especially those of you that are able to compare RL
situations with sim situations. I also feel very fortunate to be sharing
space with former airline pilots, navy pilots, army pilots and other pilots
that have several thousand hours of flighttime and a wealth of knowledge
and are willing to share it all.

So there! ;-)

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the
earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci)
September 16, 2005 2:37:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Marcel Kuijper wrote:
> So there! ;-)



word!
Anonymous
September 19, 2005 3:47:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gttdi11qq66tercgbm98ib4pk97l3hbgjr@4ax.com...
>
> There's been a number of harsh OTs as-of-late. OTs such as:
> "what's a Fenway? -- oh, four or five stones!!" -- or -- How's your
> dog!! would be ok.. but politics and religion are dangerous subjects
> especially in todays' environment. Remember everything posted on
> Usenet goes into that GREAT Cyberspace Database (GCD) forever.
>
> So.. wouldn't it be much better to discuss the science of flight, ops
> and maneuvers, generation of terrain, navigation, atmospheric
> properties (weather), and world geography!!
>
> btw.. would like a comment on `applying some thrust' right before the
> landing flare(out)!! IINTMT (if it's not too much trouble)

Never actually added power during the flare, but occasionally raise the
flaps to get the aircraft to settle that last 2 or 3 feet!

Earl

--
Earl Needham
Clovis, New Mexico USA
!