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LCD Gaming Display?

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June 26, 2006 1:40:00 PM

I am getting ready to purchase a new monitor and go from CRT to LCD. I want to make sure that gaming will not be an issue. There are 3 monitors I am looking at.

Viewsonic's vx922, vx924 or the wide screen vx2025wm.

Does anyone have experience with the above or know of a great LCD gaming display and of course video since it will be my TV in my gameroom using a USB TV tuner.

More about : lcd gaming display

June 26, 2006 2:01:42 PM

What matters most in LCD gaming is the response time shoot for 8ms or lower, the lower the number the faster the response, for example a 25ms will produce smears when turning corners in games like FPS, and also in some DVD playback in fast action sceens when played back on a computer.


8ms is great I have a 19" Samsung and she is crystal, but lower than 8ms say a 4ms would even be better!
June 26, 2006 2:04:40 PM

Well the Viewsonic vx922 is 2ms and the vx923 is 3ms. The vx2025wm is 8ms but wide screen and I somewhat wanted to go with wide screen.

How can you be sure the picture quality will be as good as CRT? I want to make the picture quality is good. Is your LCD quality good for you?

So you are sure 8ms will be enough to give flawless game play?
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June 26, 2006 2:18:03 PM

I have a Dell 2405 24" widescreen and love it. I got mine for $860.

It has RCA inputs so I just run a line to the monitor from my VCR/DVD and can watch TV and movies even when the computer is off. It works just like a TV (high-def :)  in that regard.

It's 16ms for gaming. I'm not hard-core but I don't notice any ghosting. I notice my 7900GT (volt modded) barely keeps up on high settings at the 1920x1200 resolution. Barely. I have to turn things down a tad in some games.
June 26, 2006 2:38:45 PM

I have a VX 924 and it works very well with one exception; when playing a game that has a diiferent resolution then the monitors, annoying messages get displayed that give direction to change the resolution of the games.
June 26, 2006 3:14:59 PM

I have a 19inch view sonic crt, and 2 months ago i decide to buy an lcd, well, i bought 3 in 2 weeks time, and returned them all. i bought two at 8ms responsce and one at 4ms. None better than my viewsonic, in clearity color, or the smear and ghosting is terrible on lcds. Even if the response time is 4ms in description, it doesnt mean it stays at the stated repsonse, it means it HAS gone down that low before, not constant. The reaso n i bought 3 was because i thought it was just me, or bad luck. Lcd's just suck right now, i could be picky also, but alls i know, the last thing i want to see after spending 500 bucks on lcd's is when spinning around in cs or other First person shooter, is a horrible smear which is so bad sometimes, you can barely make out an object because of how blurry it gets. If you got the desk space, id stick with crts for gaming.
June 26, 2006 3:17:23 PM

Quote:
I have a VX 924 and it works very well with one exception; when playing a game that has a diiferent resolution then the monitors, annoying messages get displayed that give direction to change the resolution of the games.


Sure, but isn't that in the options to turn off the automatic resolution notifier?

Back on the subject, at the moment I haven't really heard that many good things about widescreen tft's for gaming but they are getting better all the time.

There are 3 normal tft's that I'd take some interest in though and they are;

Viewsonic VX922
BenQ FP63GX
Samsung Syncmaster 940BF

All 3 of these have a 2ms grey to grey response time and I'm finding it hard to find any bad comments about them that would affect the purchase.

Must admit, I'm in the same boat as you at the moment, I'm not sure which one to choose. Although I don't have the requirement of using it as a tv though.
June 26, 2006 3:21:56 PM

I currently have a Sony Trititron 21" and I agree that is why I want to be absolutely sure. I plan on building a new gaming rig once the DX10 supported GPU cards come out and do not want to lose any visual quality.

You just pretty much made my mind to spend the money on better things and wait awhile before upgrading to a new display.

I was looking into getting the samsung 24" LCD but maybe to wait til they prove LCD looks as good if not better then CRT.
June 26, 2006 3:23:58 PM

I have the VS VP930B and it does the job. I am no hardcore gamer but see no problems in first person shooters.
June 26, 2006 3:24:47 PM

It one of my hardest decisions because there is no straight answer. I am all about the visual quality and that is why I am spending the money in the near future for a new gaming rig when the DX10 support GPUs come out.

I do not want to play Crysis on a display that would give me less quaility then my current CRT.

I just dont understand why there are not any CRTs that support DVI?
June 26, 2006 4:00:25 PM

Quote:
It one of my hardest decisions because there is no straight answer. I am all about the visual quality and that is why I am spending the money in the near future for a new gaming rig when the DX10 support GPUs come out.

I do not want to play Crysis on a display that would give me less quaility then my current CRT.

I just dont understand why there are not any CRTs that support DVI?

im the same way,been playing FPS and other games for years and years on my crt. and right hwen i plugged in my first lcd, coming from my crt, i actually thought it was a defect.."why does teh screen get blurry when i turn around quick?" and i tried everything to fix it, and then after my 3rd one, i found out, thats what lcd's do. People will say "ahh no, lcds are awesome and dont do that" If your worried about visual quality, wait until they make lcd's better, cuz iv heard that a million times " i cant see a difference only that its brighter than my crt" ...then they must be blind, because it is the worst thing to see smear and ghosting while playing games, especially if you have a nice sized crt. Dont fix something that isnt broke, just stickw ith your crt until they make better quality lcd's. OH and for dvi, people made it sound like a big deal, i didnt see even the slightest bit of difference in quality between my crt that has analog, and the lcd's had dvi. no dfference. Their might be a difference, but i absolutely saw none.
June 26, 2006 4:29:05 PM

Yeah I think I am going to wait unless someone responds saying they have a LCD that is better then anything.
June 26, 2006 4:54:52 PM

ok, this is my opinion.. now i am shopping for a LCD as well, my pics were a VX922, and VX924(i think its a 924 lol) ok

one of my good friends specializes in monitors, CRT and LCD.. now this is what he told me

look for a 300 brightness
look for a high contrast 500:1 and below.. just forget
600:1 and higher definatly go for.. but i must warn.. the higher the contrast ratio the higher the price..

as for reponse time.. if its at 8.. its fine.. 8 and below are great.. anything higher.. well your just losing out.

this is what im thinking of.. it is abit expensive.. but its worth it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

thats what im getting
June 26, 2006 5:03:22 PM

I have the BenQ 20.1' widescreen and its amazing. Newegg has a deal sometimes where you can get it for $300. It's definitely the best bang for your buck if you want to go wide.
June 26, 2006 5:19:32 PM

IMHO, if you match your flat screen with your computer system, you should not notice any ghosting with the proper monitor. If you are running a High End Gaming that can run a game @ 190 FPS @ 1024x768, then get a larger monitor that will run 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200 native so that your game is in the 50-80 fps range (with all the eye candy on).

If you have a low end gaming rig and try to run a game on a 21" @ 1600x1200, you will have to lower the eye candy so that it is playable @ 20-30fps.

Also, be aware that some games do not support the wide screen resolutions @ higher resolution levels.

Playing any game outside of the flat screen's native resolution can result in ghosting and visual problems.

Look at your system you will be buying (or own) and see what the reviews say on the fps for the games you play. From this, narrow the list down to a few monitors that match those resolutions and look at professional and individual reviews to see what they say. A monitor can be good @ gaming but horrible with movies and visa-versa. Make a decision on those items.

I hope this helps and again, IMHO. I personally hated lugging around my old 19" monitor to friends Lan sessions (or even moving it accross the room when at my place). Now my 17" LCD is the best decision I ever made. It has survived 3 computer upgrades.
June 26, 2006 5:49:37 PM

I just got my new BenQ FP202W LCD - this thing is incredible. It's a 20" display at 1680 x 1050, with an 8ms response time and 16.7 million colors - it's an 8-bit panel, so color definition is really really good. Came with no dead or stuck pixels. I have no bad things to say about it, but I haven't had it for more than a few hours.
June 26, 2006 5:50:47 PM

Is there any LCD monitor that looks better then a good Trititron CRT?
June 26, 2006 10:54:05 PM

Lcd's look nicer, but why fix something that isnt broke? unless your crt monitor is broke, no point in getting an lcd, especially if your gaming, unless your desk is starting to bow from the weight.haha Lcds have a crystal clear picture, yea...until you pull up a fast pace gaming,if your worried about gaming, DONT DO IT! iv had plenty experience with different ones, including the high end 19 inch LG with 700-1 contrast 300 brightness and 8 ms.and a smasung 4ms repsonce (not black and white). IT SUCKED! and it costs 500 some bucks at best buy.
June 27, 2006 12:23:11 AM

I am glad I started this forum, there is nothing better then getting real world advice and seeing what others think.

I will not upgrade until they get a bit better and when I want to go 24" or 30" wide.

Plus if I go with a high end LCD my current card will not do well with the higher resolutions in the new games like F.E.A.R.

Thanks everyone!!!!
June 28, 2006 1:17:10 PM

Right now, all LCDs have response time problems and makers do lots of things to try to correct the problem; things like overdriving the gray scale, buffering the data and figuring out where it's going, blinking or scanning the backlight, etc.

In, maybe, 5 years, OCB or something similar should be available. OLED displays may also be available in sizes larger than cell phones. These technologies are faster than the current TN, IPS and VA LCDs.

You can also check into projectors and OLED goggles.
June 28, 2006 1:25:01 PM

I've noticed no ghosting in UT with the BenQ. Color definition and contrast are excellent. I have no need for a different monitor, CRT or otherwise.
June 28, 2006 5:45:45 PM

I've tried to turn off the automatic resolution notifier but it ignores me. I hate it when computers or computer parts ignore my wishes. Kind of like my ex-wife. Haven't made the LCD my ex-LCD yet, as it still does other things that I like.
June 29, 2006 8:13:49 AM

Quote:
I've tried to turn off the automatic resolution notifier but it ignores me. I hate it when computers or computer parts ignore my wishes. Kind of like my ex-wife. Haven't made the LCD my ex-LCD yet, as it still does other things that I like.


Hahaha nice one - one thing to remember, if the lcd becomes the ex-lcd at least it won't take away more money from you ;) ...................and it certainly won't get too upset if you swap it out for a younger model :D 
June 29, 2006 9:53:16 AM

I picked up the 24" Acer AL2416W(D)back in October 2005. Yes it has DVI.
1000:1 Contrast ratio: 500 brightness and 6ms response.
1920x1200 resolution. 178 degree viewing angle. Text looks good in all
resolutions, not just native rez like some other LCDs.
Like one review says..it has an ok case/housing but a Ferrari "engine"
I waited a few years before buying an LCD..I wanted something that could
compare image quality wise with my Viewsonic GS790 CRT..this one does it.
Can't wait to put Vista up on this screen :) 
You can get one of these for around $1000 cdn right now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antec SLK3700AMB 480w True Power
AMD 64 3700+ Asus A8N-E
2gig PC3200 Corsair VS Dual Channel 4x512
eVga 7800GTX 256mb
6' DVI to AcerAL2416W & 26' DVI to RCA 50" Scenium
200gig Maxtor + 300gig Maxtor
Audigy 1 (MP3) + Logitech 680z 5.1
Logitech MX518 + Saitek PC Gamer
June 29, 2006 12:02:00 PM

Just make sure your video card can handle those resolutions at acceptable framerates.
July 2, 2006 9:15:27 PM

Quote:
Well the Viewsonic vx922 is 2ms and the vx923 is 3ms. The vx2025wm is 8ms but wide screen and I somewhat wanted to go with wide screen.

How can you be sure the picture quality will be as good as CRT? I want to make the picture quality is good. Is your LCD quality good for you?

So you are sure 8ms will be enough to give flawless game play?




Picture Quality?

LCD picture quality is much better than CRT, I don't know what it will take to convince you since most of us are giving our advice on what we're presently using.

OK I'm sitting a a desk using a 27" Westinghouse LCD HDTV/Monitor it has a 16ms response time when used as a PC monitor, I play games mostly FPS [First Person Shooters] that require a high enough response not to smear when turning a corner fast, is 16ms OK? Yes!

I tried a 25ms 19" Viewsonic and took it back to the store because it produced smears when gaming! Unacceptable!

16ms OK! 25ms Bad!

8ms and below is in the excellent territory for gaming and DVD playback!

I also have a 19" Samsung SyncMaster 930B LCD Monitor 8ms response and its an excellent LCD monitor Crystal Clear, on the same desk is a 19" Insignia CRT monitor pretty much todays cutting edge in CRT monitors.

Do I play games on the CRT?

No!

WHY NOT?

Because compared to the LCD monitors it sucks!, and thats the truth, if not I'd be using it right now!

These LCD monitors aren't cheap so caution is understandable, but we have excellent offerings today we didn't have before, and LCD monitors are easier on the eyes than the radiation coming from the CRTs, have you even considered that?

I'm not trying to sell you a monitor if I was, I'd post a link! :D 

I'm just trying to relate to you that the features we were all waiting for are here now, but you're not going to realize it until you get your own.

Have a great day! Ry
a b 4 Gaming
a c 195 C Monitor
July 3, 2006 3:38:23 AM

Quote:
It one of my hardest decisions because there is no straight answer. I am all about the visual quality and that is why I am spending the money in the near future for a new gaming rig when the DX10 support GPUs come out.

I do not want to play Crysis on a display that would give me less quaility then my current CRT.

I just dont understand why there are not any CRTs that support DVI?


LCDs with fast response time (less than 16ms) are usually 6-bit monitors. That means that color reproduction is not as good as an 8-bit LCD or a CRT. That means you can see artifacts and basically bad color blending. That will be less noticable in FPS games since you are concentrating on running around and shooting enemies. For watching movies and doing graphics design, it can be noticable.

8-bit LCDs can produce 16.7 million colors. 8 bits is use for different shades of Red, Green and Blue, which means there will be 256 shades for each color (2^8 = 256). Since each color has 256 shades that means there will be a total of 16.7 million possible colors (256^3 or 256x256x256).

6-bit LCDs can only produce 262,144 colors. 6 bits is used or each of the three colors, Red, Green, and Blue. That means there will only be 64 shades of each color (2^6 = 64). Therefore, there is only 262,144 actual colors (64^3 or 64x64x64). But many brands list these LCDs as being able to reproduce 16.2 million colors. How? It's done by interpolation or guessing what the missing colors are. Guessing can lead to the wrong shade of color being displayed and can lead to artifacts. But the good thing about 6-bit LCD is that the sacrifice color accuracy for speed. So any LCD listed as faster than 16ms are most likely 6-bit LCDs.

Sometimes brands try to fool the consumer, so instead of listing 16.2 million colors for 6-bit monitors, they list 16.7 million colors. Therefore most people are simply being misled because they don't know what to look for.

I only know of 2 brands that offers 8ms LCDs that are 8-bit LCD. They are Planar and Viewsonic. They use "turbo mode" or "performance mode" to lower the response time at the cost of some visual quality. So when gamimg you can use those modes and for watching video you can use regular mode.

Also 6-bit LCDs are cheaper than 8-bit LCDs because the fewer colors each pixel needs to reproduce, the cheaper it will cost to produce. That's why all of the cheap or inexpensive LCDs are 6-bit.

Good quality CRTs are still superior to LCDs. They have no issues with dead pixels, or ghosting. They also have better resolution scaling than LCDs. The native resolution for a 19" LCD is 1280 x 1024. If the text is too small and you scale down the resolution to 1024 x 768, then the text will be larger but not as crisp as the native resolution.

The major problem with CRTs is that they take up a lot of deskspace. If you replace it with a LCD then you'll be surprised with the amount of free deskspace you will actually have. Plus they suck up more electricity than a LCD.

If your CRT is not giving you any problems, and if you do not have to urge to replace it with a LCD, then keep on using it.
July 3, 2006 4:34:53 AM

My 22" NEC is far superior to any LCD I've ever seen. I put in a couple apple cinima display, various 24" viewsonic and samsungs, and a plethra of 19" and 17"s over the years, I think the samsungs are the best at color accuracy, but none are as close as my crt. The LCD's may have "sharper" text, but it actually looks blockier to me (at the right rez of course). I have a 17" Planar PL1700 sitting next to my CRT right now and it's brighter by a bit, but the image quality is certainly not upto CRT standards, and if I play a video on them side by side you really see the difference in colors and smoothness. LCD's colors always seem to be overstated.

I have a printing press that needs to have pantone accuracy throughout their print cycle, they just upgraded to 20.3" Samsungs from 22" trinitron's (same screen area really), they like them but they also have noticed they have to manually compensate for colors much more often.

Even though my CRT weighs a ton and takes up 4 times the space, it's invaluable to me for gaming. I use the LCD for basic web browsing and business stuff since the brightness is a bit less headache inducing. Myy CRT has to run at 85-100hz for me not to see flicker but even then I still notice I get eye strain a bit quicker than staring at the LCD all the time.
July 3, 2006 1:11:15 PM

My BenQ looks great. It's an 8-bit panel with 8ms response time, and BF2 looks great on the DVI connection - much, much better than analog.

If you want the best, get an LCD. There really is no reason not to now. Prices have dropped - my 20" panel cost $300. A few years ago, a friend bought his 17" with the same response time for over $500.

1680 x 1050 FTW!
July 3, 2006 2:03:43 PM

you should go for the Samsung syncmaster 204B, its 20', not a widescreen, 1600x1200 resolution, and has 5MS, great monitor, i have 1 of these, still highly recommending it.
July 3, 2006 3:45:06 PM

I've been considering that as a replacement for my current 17", I've seen a few in action though not with gaming, hows it do with HL2, DOOM3, etc.?

Oh, to answer the OP's question of why don't CRT's have DVI, it's cause they are an analog technology, DVI is only for direct digital input, you'd have to have a DAC in the monitor to convert the DVI back to analog, useless as the video card already outputs analog from the vga port.
a b 4 Gaming
a c 195 C Monitor
July 3, 2006 9:10:24 PM

Quote:
My BenQ looks great. It's an 8-bit panel with 8ms response time, and BF2 looks great on the DVI connection - much, much better than analog.




Are you sure? Which model do you have?
August 30, 2006 5:00:49 AM

Quote:
My 22" NEC is far superior to any LCD I've ever seen. I put in a couple apple cinima display, various 24" viewsonic and samsungs, and a plethra of 19" and 17"s over the years, I think the samsungs are the best at color accuracy, but none are as close as my crt. The LCD's may have "sharper" text, but it actually looks blockier to me (at the right rez of course). I have a 17" Planar PL1700 sitting next to my CRT right now and it's brighter by a bit, but the image quality is certainly not upto CRT standards, and if I play a video on them side by side you really see the difference in colors and smoothness. LCD's colors always seem to be overstated.

Hmm, lets look at what Fatal1ty uses when he plays a tournament..oh, its a LCD. Therefore, what you say about CRTs being the absolute necessity of gaming is a lie. Have a good day.
August 30, 2006 6:38:16 AM

www.widescreengamingforum.com

check out the reviews they post pics/specs/experiences with LCDs and solutions to games that dont natively support wide screen resolutions.

I've spent a good 12+ hour or so looking up what LCD to buy, and eventually i settled on a NEC 20wmgx2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

coming from a 17" CRT...i couldnt be happier.

here's a link for reviews http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewforum.ph...
August 30, 2006 7:39:08 AM

I just Hooked up a really nice HannsG 191D it has 700:1 contrast ratio, 5ms, 8bit color and a native rez of 1440x900

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...


FEAR looks great granted i have 7800gt and 2gigs of ram that could be helping...but i have been running on high settings with native rez that i had to set with the help of widescreengamingforum.com or menus look a little fuzzy

other than that its great love it tons more than my 17" KDS P.O.S.
September 1, 2006 9:53:45 AM

I was in the exact same spot as you about 3 months ago. I had a 19” LG Flatron CRT that I was using for gaming but needed a new monitor as it was starting to loose it’s brightness. I was thinking about getting a TFT but it taken me 2 weeks to actually decide what I would actually go for, often saying I was going to get another CRT.

But now I finally have settled in with the 20.1” widescreen View Sonic vx2025wm and I must say I am a convert. I plugged in the old CRT the other day in the hope of getting a nice dual screen set up. And I could not believe I put up with that for the 4 years that I had it. The colours are not as crisp and vibrant as they are on the new TFT and on top of that the fact that the TFT is crystal perfect and I don’t need to adjust it actually makes the picture much more clear than on the CRT.

When playing games there is that problem (the one I was worrying about most when deciding what monitor to get) about not all games supporting widescreen. Now there are fixes for most games that can actually add viewable area to the game, which is a very nice bonus and what makes widescreen monitors worth it. But there are also an equal amount of games that reduce the viewable area, which is not too bad since it is only from the top and bottom of the screen. There are also games that don’t even support a widescreen resolution what so ever, and they can be quite troublesome. Although games like Fahrenheit and Myst 4 don’t really need to be graphically perfect or in the correct aspect ratio to enjoy.

The other problem with large widescreen monitors is the native resolution you need to run things at to keep the picture clear. The monitor I am using has a native resolution of 1680X1050, which is very high for gaming. Now on most games this is ok but a few of the new games or even fairly old games do struggle. My graphics card is fairly old but was the best money could buy in its day, the X800 XT PE. The card keeps up very well with games like Rome - Total War but does struggle with games such as Fear, which is more or less unplayable at the native resolution of the monitor. But in large it is mostly very playable with most games out there. For instance it plays any game based on the Source engine perfectly giving about 50 – 60fps, it even adds to the viewable area of the game making your peripheral vision much better and like wise making the game much more immersive.

Movies are a subject that is important when buying a widescreen monitor. You need to buy something that is going to give you a very good colour depth with an equally good response time to make sure that the picture is clear and there is no blur what so ever to the image. I my self do watch a lot of movies on my monitor and about 90% of them are widescreen. The benefits of having this new monitor for watching movies over my old 4:3 CRT are very clear, not only is the picture twice the size but it is also more clear.

All in all I would recommend getting a widescreen monitor as it will suit all your needs perfectly for home entertainment given that you do have a system powerful enough to run the games you want at the given resolution.

NOTE: There is a new version of the monitor I got out now that is more or less the same price but is 22” in size. I can not speak on the quality of that monitor but I can on the one I have and it is more than I could have possibly expected from a TFT given that mad stigma it has in the gaming world.
September 3, 2006 6:15:24 PM

That may be his preference, doesn't mean it's the best. Anyone who's seen a high quality crt against a high quality lcd will know what I'm talking about.
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