Fixing a Logitech joystick

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Am I the only one who's had problems with Logitech joysticks? I'm on
my third one (Extreme 3D pro) and it's starting to fail the same way
the first two did: apparently the position encoders get noisy, to the
point that it becomes nearly unuseable. In the "Properties" dialog,
the slightest movement of the stick causes the little crosshair to jump
all over the place. This wreaks havoc with my flying, which is already
bad enough.

Unplugging the thing sometimes fixes it for a little while. Cleaning
the encoders with tuner cleaner also helps, but the problem always
comes back. I've also tried the calibration-clearing routine from
Logitech, but it didn't help.

Any suggestions?

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

 

[dallas]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Ray Heindl"
> the position encoders get noisy, to the
> point that it becomes nearly unuseable.


When you say "position encoders" do you mean the "potentiometers"?

Dallas

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I use the same joystick and don't experience this (yet). With it's
predecessor (Logitech Cordless) I had exactly the same. With my present
joystick I have the problem that centering (especially rudder centering)
shifts out from the center. As far as I know there's no calibrating for this
type of joystick. So at the moment the only thing I can do is to extend the
null-zone which is not really a good solution as even the null-zone is of
course also becoming asymmetrical. I would be interested in what you mean by
"calibration-clearing routine"? Is that maybe something that I'm missing? Is
there nevertheless kind of a calibrating possibility?
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Ray Heindl" <vortren-newsx@yaxhoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns96D3BC34BCE5Famfmssb@207.115.63.158...
> Am I the only one who's had problems with Logitech joysticks? I'm on
> my third one (Extreme 3D pro) and it's starting to fail the same way
> the first two did: apparently the position encoders get noisy, to the
> point that it becomes nearly unuseable. In the "Properties" dialog,
> the slightest movement of the stick causes the little crosshair to jump
> all over the place. This wreaks havoc with my flying, which is already
> bad enough.
>
> Unplugging the thing sometimes fixes it for a little while. Cleaning
> the encoders with tuner cleaner also helps, but the problem always
> comes back. I've also tried the calibration-clearing routine from
> Logitech, but it didn't help.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> --
> Ray Heindl
> (remove the Xs to reply)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>
> "Ray Heindl"
>> the position encoders get noisy, to the
>> point that it becomes nearly unuseable.
>
>
> When you say "position encoders" do you mean the "potentiometers"?

Apparently I do. I'd always assumed they were some kind of digital
encoders. But on closer inspection, I see they have only two leads, so
I guess they must be pots. How disappointingly low-tech.

Now that I think about it, the fact that the joystick has to be
centered when it's powered on indicates that they don't have any kind
of absolute position encoders. I used to keep my original Logitech
joystick under a shelf that wasn't quite high enough, so the stick had
to be pushed forward a bit to fit. This caused no end of trouble until
I finally figured out what was going on.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

> I use the same joystick and don't experience this (yet). With it's
> predecessor (Logitech Cordless) I had exactly the same. With my
> present joystick I have the problem that centering (especially
> rudder centering) shifts out from the center. As far as I know
> there's no calibrating for this type of joystick. So at the moment
> the only thing I can do is to extend the null-zone which is not
> really a good solution as even the null-zone is of course also
> becoming asymmetrical. I would be interested in what you mean by
> "calibration-clearing routine"? Is that maybe something that I'm
> missing? Is there nevertheless kind of a calibrating possibility?

Here's what Logitech says about it:
http://tinyurl.com/cun6f
http://tinyurl.com/dmakl
http://tinyurl.com/ardbp

The joystick automatically calibrates itself every time it's turned on,
or Windows boots. That's why unplugging sometimes fixes it, I guess --
just pause the sim, unplug the joystick, and plug it back in.

They have a utility that clears all the calibration info out of the
registry. Using it hasn't helped my problem, but it did force me to
recalibrate my analog rudder pedals.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thank you Ray!
I just came across this when digging a bit deeper into Logitech's site. As
you wrote in another reply to this thread the position encoders are indeed
of the potentiometer type. Personally I haven't seen anthing else than
analog position resolution and regarding the price I fully understand that.
A true digital encoding would take a bit more but I agree that it would -
despite a much higher price - be on my wishlist as it would be more or less
indestructible. The main problem with the potentiometers is that they get
"worn out" especially in the center part where most of the movement takes
place. This first leads to losing linearity and later on even might
interrupt conductivity. To be honest after some heavy use this happened to
all joysticks I ever operated. I'm presently on joystick #8 and counting....
)
Let's hope that in the near future a true digital joystick will show up....
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....

"Ray Heindl" <vortren-newsx@yaxhoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns96D4C5145431Camfmssb@207.115.63.158...
> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>> I use the same joystick and don't experience this (yet). With it's
>> predecessor (Logitech Cordless) I had exactly the same. With my
>> present joystick I have the problem that centering (especially
>> rudder centering) shifts out from the center. As far as I know
>> there's no calibrating for this type of joystick. So at the moment
>> the only thing I can do is to extend the null-zone which is not
>> really a good solution as even the null-zone is of course also
>> becoming asymmetrical. I would be interested in what you mean by
>> "calibration-clearing routine"? Is that maybe something that I'm
>> missing? Is there nevertheless kind of a calibrating possibility?
>
> Here's what Logitech says about it:
> http://tinyurl.com/cun6f
> http://tinyurl.com/dmakl
> http://tinyurl.com/ardbp
>
> The joystick automatically calibrates itself every time it's turned on,
> or Windows boots. That's why unplugging sometimes fixes it, I guess --
> just pause the sim, unplug the joystick, and plug it back in.
>
> They have a utility that clears all the calibration info out of the
> registry. Using it hasn't helped my problem, but it did force me to
> recalibrate my analog rudder pedals.
> --
> Ray Heindl
> (remove the Xs to reply)

 

[dallas]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Ray Heindl"
> encoders. But on closer inspection, I see they have only two leads, so
> I guess they must be pots. How disappointingly low-tech.

You sound like you are not a stranger to the inside of an electronic device.

If you have a test meter, unplug the joystick and connect the leads to the
pot. Set the meter on Ohms and slowly inch the pot through its full range.
If you get jumpy numbers as you go through the full range you need to clean
or replace the pots.

If you are brave, you can unseat the pot, bend the tabs back and scrub the
resistive surface with a Q-tip and alcohol. Then coat the surface with a
tiny layer of Vaseline.

Yes, I said Vaseline... not being cheap here, turns out Vaseline is very
good for the job. I've done this on several joystick throughout my life and
it has always fixed the "spikes". I consider it regular maintenance that
has to be done from time to time.

Disclaimer: Don't attempt if your not comfortable with stuff like this. If
you break off a tab on the pot you could hose your joystick.

Dallas

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>
> "Ray Heindl"
>> encoders. But on closer inspection, I see they have only two
>> leads, so I guess they must be pots. How disappointingly
>> low-tech.
>
> You sound like you are not a stranger to the inside of an
> electronic device.
>
> If you have a test meter, unplug the joystick and connect the
> leads to the pot. Set the meter on Ohms and slowly inch the pot
> through its full range. If you get jumpy numbers as you go through
> the full range you need to clean or replace the pots.

I'm assuming the leads you mean are the ones inside the joystick, not
the ones that connect to the PC. There's an IC inside that presumably
translates the resistances of the pots into a USB signal.

> If you are brave, you can unseat the pot, bend the tabs back and
> scrub the resistive surface with a Q-tip and alcohol. Then coat
> the surface with a tiny layer of Vaseline.
>
> Yes, I said Vaseline... not being cheap here, turns out Vaseline
> is very good for the job. I've done this on several joystick
> throughout my life and it has always fixed the "spikes". I
> consider it regular maintenance that has to be done from time to
> time.

Never thought of Vaseline for that. I was thinking maybe De-Ox-It
would help, but I don't have any of that lying around.

> Disclaimer: Don't attempt if your not comfortable with stuff like
> this. If you break off a tab on the pot you could hose your
> joystick.

It's worth a try. I've got two other joysticks that don't work, that I
can practice on. Fortunately the second one failed about a week before
the warranty ran out, so the third one was a warranty replacement.

Actually I might just try transplanting the still-working pots (if
there are any) from the old joysticks into the newest one. As I
recall, they all look the same.

As a last resort, it should be possible to buy replacement pots
somewhere. Of course, the minimum order would probably be 10,000
pieces....

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

 

[dallas]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Ray Heindl"
> There's an IC inside that presumably
> translates the resistances of the pots into a USB signal.

Then don't connect a meter to the pot connectors, the micro current might be
enough to fry the IC. You could unsolder the leads then test it, but by
that time you could have cleaned the pots and reassembled them in same
amount of time.

> Actually I might just try transplanting the still-working pots (if
> there are any) from the old joysticks into the newest one. As I
> recall, they all look the same.

Joystick pots can be anything from 10 Ohms to 30 Ohms usually engraved on
the body of the pot. With your pots connected to an IC I'd say you'd have
to match them exactly. If it's not engraved on the pot, unsolder the leads
and put a test meter on the pot to see what the highest resistance level you
get is... that will be how the pot is rated.

> As a last resort, it should be possible to buy replacement pots
> somewhere.

There are lots of places that sell higher quality "gamers potentiometers"
replacement units. Road racing gamer's sites seem to discuss these issues
all the time. You could ask around there if you need to replace them.

Dallas

 

[ches]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:dgidkj$268$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> Thank you Ray!
> I just came across this when digging a bit deeper into Logitech's site. As
> you wrote in another reply to this thread the position encoders are indeed
> of the potentiometer type. Personally I haven't seen anthing else than
> analog position resolution and regarding the price I fully understand
that.
> A true digital encoding would take a bit more but I agree that it would -
> despite a much higher price - be on my wishlist as it would be more or
less
> indestructible. The main problem with the potentiometers is that they get
> "worn out" especially in the center part where most of the movement takes
> place. This first leads to losing linearity and later on even might
> interrupt conductivity. To be honest after some heavy use this happened to
> all joysticks I ever operated. I'm presently on joystick #8 and
counting....
> )
> Let's hope that in the near future a true digital joystick will show
up....
> --
> Oskar Wagner
> (retired Captain)
>
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
>
> "Ray Heindl" <vortren-newsx@yaxhoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:Xns96D4C5145431Camfmssb@207.115.63.158...
> > "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
> >
> >> I use the same joystick and don't experience this (yet). With it's
> >> predecessor (Logitech Cordless) I had exactly the same. With my
> >> present joystick I have the problem that centering (especially
> >> rudder centering) shifts out from the center. As far as I know
> >> there's no calibrating for this type of joystick. So at the moment
> >> the only thing I can do is to extend the null-zone which is not
> >> really a good solution as even the null-zone is of course also
> >> becoming asymmetrical. I would be interested in what you mean by
> >> "calibration-clearing routine"? Is that maybe something that I'm
> >> missing? Is there nevertheless kind of a calibrating possibility?
> >
> > Here's what Logitech says about it:
> > http://tinyurl.com/cun6f
> > http://tinyurl.com/dmakl
> > http://tinyurl.com/ardbp
> >
> > The joystick automatically calibrates itself every time it's turned on,
> > or Windows boots. That's why unplugging sometimes fixes it, I guess --
> > just pause the sim, unplug the joystick, and plug it back in.
> >
> > They have a utility that clears all the calibration info out of the
> > registry. Using it hasn't helped my problem, but it did force me to
> > recalibrate my analog rudder pedals.
> > --
> > Ray Heindl
> > (remove the Xs to reply)

FWIW I had similar problems with the same stick. Logitech were about as
useful as a chocolate teapot. Solution, changed to Saitek, no further
problems.

Ches
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> "Ray Heindl"

>> As a last resort, it should be possible to buy replacement pots
>> somewhere.

> There are lots of places that sell higher quality "gamers
> potentiometers" replacement units. Road racing gamer's sites seem
> to discuss these issues all the time. You could ask around there
> if you need to replace them.

Thanks, sounds like a good option if all else fails.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)