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scuff marks from exit rollers - Epson 2200

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Anonymous
April 13, 2005 9:54:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper on an
Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but they
claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They supply
"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the scuffing,
but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular or
envelopes).

Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
straight without exit rollers?

Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?

--
- Alan Justice
April 14, 2005 4:44:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and look
in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will see
serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint marks in
dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix for
it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries these
wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to hold
it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on to
the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your 2200 is
newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am not
suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you might
also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers or
Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and will
probably solve the problem.

"Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper on
> an
> Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
> color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but they
> claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> supply
> "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> scuffing,
> but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
> simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular or
> envelopes).
>
> Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> straight without exit rollers?
>
> Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>
> --
> - Alan Justice
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 6:12:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:

>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper on an
>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but they
>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They supply
>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the scuffing,
>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular or
>envelopes).
>
>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>straight without exit rollers?
>
>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?


Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 7:56:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The "pizza wheels" come before the exit wheels, and are closer together.
The scuffs are from the exit wheels (two apposing). I can inactivate some
of them, but with all out, the paper doesn't feed right.

--
- Alan Justice

"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:o 1j7e.1446$J12.49@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and look
> in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will see
> serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint marks
in
> dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
> unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix for
> it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
these
> wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
hold
> it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
> Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on to
> the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your 2200
is
> newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
not
> suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
might
> also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers
or
> Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
> solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and will
> probably solve the problem.
>
> "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
on
> > an
> > Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
> > color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
they
> > claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> > supply
> > "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> > scuffing,
> > but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
> > simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
or
> > envelopes).
> >
> > Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> > straight without exit rollers?
> >
> > Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> >
> > --
> > - Alan Justice
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 10:58:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.

Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?

Ed Ruf wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
>Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>
>
>
>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper on an
>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but they
>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They supply
>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the scuffing,
>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular or
>>envelopes).
>>
>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>straight without exit rollers?
>>
>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>
>>
>
>
>Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
>
>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 12:04:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:58:13 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers measekite
<measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
>
>Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?

Sorry to burst your bubble. I've had no such problems with either my 1270
or my 800.. No clogs, no pizza wheels, nothing.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 1:20:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93z7e.3444$dT4.2823@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
> Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>

Probably because they are going to more sensible places to ask questions
rather than being shot down in flames on here.

If you were to take five minutes out of your life of making sarcastic
comments and pushing Canon printers as being the best thing since sliced
bread, you'll find there's more than enough people having problems with the
pizza wheels on Canon, HP and other printers too

e.g.

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=35...

http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/498976...

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GG...
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 1:50:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

At least part of the problem seems to be that I am using MediaStreet ink,
which costs 20% as much as Epson (after a $300 investment in their
cartridges etc). They know of the problem. But apparently, it can happen
with Epson inks too.

--
- Alan Justice

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93z7e.3444$dT4.2823@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
>
> Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>
> Ed Ruf wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
> >Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
on an
> >>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
> >>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
they
> >>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
supply
> >>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
scuffing,
> >>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
> >>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
or
> >>envelopes).
> >>
> >>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> >>straight without exit rollers?
> >>
> >>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 3:13:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ivor Floppy wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:93z7e.3444$dT4.2823@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
>>Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Probably because they are going to more sensible places to ask questions
>rather than being shot down in flames on here.
>
>If you were to take five minutes out of your life of making sarcastic
>comments and pushing Canon printers as being the best thing since sliced
>bread, you'll find there's more than enough people having problems with the
>pizza wheels on Canon,
>

There are no pizzas with or without extra cheese on the Canon. Besides,
I like slice bread. I never ate a printer with peanut butter and jelly.
:-)

>HP and other printers too
>
>e.g.
>
>http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=35...
>
>http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/498976...
>
>http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GG...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 3:15:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Alan Justice wrote:

>At least part of the problem seems to be that I am using MediaStreet ink,
>which costs 20% as much as Epson (after a $300 investment in their
>cartridges etc). They know of the problem. But apparently, it can happen
>with Epson inks too.
>
>

What company makes the ink that is sold under the media street label?

>--
>- Alan Justice
>
>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:93z7e.3444$dT4.2823@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
>>
>>Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>>
>>Ed Ruf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
>>>Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
>>>>
>>>>
>on an
>
>
>>>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
>>>>
>>>>
>they
>
>
>>>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
>>>>
>>>>
>supply
>
>
>>>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>>>
>>>>
>scuffing,
>
>
>>>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>>>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
>>>>
>>>>
>or
>
>
>>>>envelopes).
>>>>
>>>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>>>straight without exit rollers?
>>>>
>>>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 2:43:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying speed
of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can be
damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.

There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print as
it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.

Art

Burt wrote:

> Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and look
> in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will see
> serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint marks in
> dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
> unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix for
> it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries these
> wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to hold
> it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
> Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on to
> the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your 2200 is
> newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am not
> suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you might
> also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers or
> Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
> solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and will
> probably solve the problem.
>
> "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper on
>>an
>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but they
>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
>>supply
>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>scuffing,
>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular or
>>envelopes).
>>
>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>straight without exit rollers?
>>
>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>
>>--
>>- Alan Justice
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 3:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

This problem was the result of Epson introducing some new papers after
the printer was produced, which dried more slowly with the Ultrachrome
inks. To the best of my knowledge, they resolved it with the R800 and
probably the R1800 printers.

Color pigment inks are more difficult to make, to make paper for, and to
keep from clogging, which is probably why Canon stays away from them.
However, they have some advantages.

Art

measekite wrote:

> Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
> Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>
> Ed Ruf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
>> Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo
>>> Paper on an
>>> Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>> color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
>>> they
>>> claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
>>> supply
>>> "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>> scuffing,
>>> but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>>> simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness
>>> (regular or
>>> envelopes).
>>>
>>> Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>> straight without exit rollers?
>>>
>>> Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 6:22:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying
> speed of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can
> be damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.
>
> There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
> lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print
> as it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.


What I am saying is not to be a matter of fact but posed as a question.
It appears that there are more design problems with Epson Printers,
based on the things I read here, than HP or Canon.

>
> Art
>
> Burt wrote:
>
>> Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
>> look in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and
>> you will see serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to
>> cause faint marks in dark uniform areas. I have been told that these
>> wheels are absolutely unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I
>> believe you can find a fix for it on the MIS ink website. It
>> involves removing the bar that carries these wheel guides, putting a
>> thin washer under the bar at each screw area to hold it up a bit
>> higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my Epson
>> Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on to
>> the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
>> 2200 is newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900
>> was, and I am not suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer
>> on the MIS site you might also google the problem (might find it
>> under pizza wheels Epson printers or Epson printer guide wheels) and
>> see what you come up with. I like the solution I mentioned as it
>> will give you a little more clearance and will probably solve the
>> problem.
>>
>> "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
>> news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>> The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo
>>> Paper on an
>>> Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>> color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink
>>> (but they
>>> claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too).
>>> They supply
>>> "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>> scuffing,
>>> but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
>>> (45x6)
>>> simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness
>>> (regular or
>>> envelopes).
>>>
>>> Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>> straight without exit rollers?
>>>
>>> Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Alan Justice
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 6:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> This problem was the result of Epson introducing some new papers after
> the printer was produced, which dried more slowly with the Ultrachrome
> inks. To the best of my knowledge, they resolved it with the R800 and
> probably the R1800 printers.
>
> Color pigment inks are more difficult to make, to make paper for, and
> to keep from clogging, which is probably why Canon stays away from them.
> However, they have some advantages.


Maybe as time goes on and technology improves the differences between
the dye and pigment based inks will narrow as far as the problems
encountered. The the dye prints with their better quality and vividness
will be the better choice. Maybe Canon is riding that horse.

>
> Art
>
> measekite wrote:
>
>> Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
>> Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
>>
>> Ed Ruf wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
>>> Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo
>>>> Paper on an
>>>> Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a
>>>> uniform
>>>> color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink
>>>> (but they
>>>> claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too).
>>>> They supply
>>>> "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>>> scuffing,
>>>> but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
>>>> (45x6)
>>>> simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness
>>>> (regular or
>>>> envelopes).
>>>>
>>>> Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>>> straight without exit rollers?
>>>>
>>>> Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
>>>
>>>
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 10:02:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:28:26 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers measekite
<measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Maybe as time goes on and technology improves the differences between
>the dye and pigment based inks will narrow as far as the problems
>encountered. The the dye prints with their better quality and vividness
>will be the better choice. Maybe Canon is riding that horse.

Not if permanence is of importance. Do you paint your house with pigments
or dyes?
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 12:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:67Q7e.4296$dT4.3129@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying speed
>> of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can be
>> damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.
>>
>> There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
>> lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print as
>> it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.
>
>
> What I am saying is not to be a matter of fact but posed as a question.
> It appears that there are more design problems with Epson Printers, based
> on the things I read here, than HP or Canon.
>

One other reason you don't hear so much of this problem with HP printers, is
simply that lots of HP printers don't have these pizza wheels after the ink
head in the paper path.

But, Google for "HP roller marks" and you'll see that the HP design of
pushing the paper through on large rollers has more than its fair share of
paper-marking problems.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 5:02:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:28:26 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers measekite
><measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Maybe as time goes on and technology improves the differences between
>>the dye and pigment based inks will narrow as far as the problems
>>encountered. The the dye prints with their better quality and vividness
>>will be the better choice. Maybe Canon is riding that horse.
>>
>>
>
>Not if permanence is of importance. Do you paint your house with pigments
>or dyes?
>
>

I don't paint my house! ;-)

>----------
>Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
>http://EdwardGRuf.com
>
>
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 5:01:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

What you say may be true, however, it needs to be put into context.

Epson has been very innovative in their designs from the very beginning,
from the use of a piezo actuator, to the introduction of high fade
resistant pigmented colorant inks, to addressing the fine art market
with several dozen paper types. Each of these moves has brought the
whole industry forward in terms of quality. Each involve risk, since
often things are introduced for printers already on the market.

Also, there is a segment of Epson owners who used their printers heavily
and demandingly for fine art reproduction, and they are a demanding lot,
so we probably hear more complaining from them, as well.

There are certain design elements that IMHO, could and should be altered
to improve functionality and cost in potential servicing. But leading
edge deign often make more demands and expectations, and for Epson the
expectations tend to be quite high, and some of their clientele are well
educated in inkjet image production, so any slip up is one too many.
Other companies may be able to get away with some of this, due to
easier implementation of older known technology (Dye inks for instance)
and a less demanding public.

Art


measekite wrote:

>
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying
>> speed of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can
>> be damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.
>>
>> There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
>> lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print
>> as it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.
>
>
>
> What I am saying is not to be a matter of fact but posed as a question.
> It appears that there are more design problems with Epson Printers,
> based on the things I read here, than HP or Canon.
>
>>
>> Art
>>
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 5:05:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> This problem was the result of Epson introducing some new papers after
>> the printer was produced, which dried more slowly with the Ultrachrome
>> inks. To the best of my knowledge, they resolved it with the R800 and
>> probably the R1800 printers.
>>
>> Color pigment inks are more difficult to make, to make paper for, and
>> to keep from clogging, which is probably why Canon stays away from them.
>> However, they have some advantages.
>
>
>
> Maybe as time goes on and technology improves the differences between
> the dye and pigment based inks will narrow as far as the problems
> encountered. The the dye prints with their better quality and vividness
> will be the better choice. Maybe Canon is riding that horse.
>
>>
>>


Maybe, but they better get on the horse rather than run in back of it.
Some of the ink formulations they are using are technically obsolete or
at least very old and rejected by some manufacturers. They need to show
a better formulated dye ink.

Art
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 12:56:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have recently bought the R1800 and have printed a couple of dozen
A3+ borderless with no lines visible anywhere in any colours.


Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message news:<2at8e.32633$yV3.21460@clgrps12>...
> measekite wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Arthur Entlich wrote:
> >
> >> This problem was the result of Epson introducing some new papers after
> >> the printer was produced, which dried more slowly with the Ultrachrome
> >> inks. To the best of my knowledge, they resolved it with the R800 and
> >> probably the R1800 printers.
> >>
> >> Color pigment inks are more difficult to make, to make paper for, and
> >> to keep from clogging, which is probably why Canon stays away from them.
> >> However, they have some advantages.
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe as time goes on and technology improves the differences between
> > the dye and pigment based inks will narrow as far as the problems
> > encountered. The the dye prints with their better quality and vividness
> > will be the better choice. Maybe Canon is riding that horse.
> >
> >>
> >>
>
>
> Maybe, but they better get on the horse rather than run in back of it.
> Some of the ink formulations they are using are technically obsolete or
> at least very old and rejected by some manufacturers. They need to show
> a better formulated dye ink.
>
> Art
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 6:05:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'd expect Epson redesigned the outport area of the printer so this
problem didn't reappear. The Ultrachrome inks are very slow drying on
some media.

Art

John Worsfold wrote:

> I have recently bought the R1800 and have printed a couple of dozen
> A3+ borderless with no lines visible anywhere in any colours.
>
>
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 8:36:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think there
would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?

Is there any way to slow up the printing, so there is longer to dry?
(Increasing time between sheets wouldn't work.)

--
- Alan Justice

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:qgN7e.31868$yV3.7369@clgrps12...
> This problem was the result of Epson introducing some new papers after
> the printer was produced, which dried more slowly with the Ultrachrome
> inks. To the best of my knowledge, they resolved it with the R800 and
> probably the R1800 printers.
>
> Color pigment inks are more difficult to make, to make paper for, and to
> keep from clogging, which is probably why Canon stays away from them.
> However, they have some advantages.
>
> Art
>
> measekite wrote:
>
> > Does this problem happen with the R series Epson Printers as well.
> > Why do you hear about fewer problems with Canon printers on this NG?
> >
> > Ed Ruf wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:28 GMT, in comp.periphs.printers "Alan
> >> Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo
> >>> Paper on an
> >>> Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a
uniform
> >>> color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
> >>> they
> >>> claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> >>> supply
> >>> "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> >>> scuffing,
> >>> but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
(45x6)
> >>> simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness
> >>> (regular or
> >>> envelopes).
> >>>
> >>> Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> >>> straight without exit rollers?
> >>>
> >>> Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Try setting the paper thickness setting to thick?
> >>
> >>
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 8:38:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Unfortunately, those exit rollers do serve a purpose. By propping them up,
the paper is not held or advanced during about the last 1/2", so it goes
askew.

--
- Alan Justice

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:rVM7e.28745$VF5.5050@edtnps89...
> The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying speed
> of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can be
> damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.
>
> There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
> lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print as
> it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.
>
> Art
>
> Burt wrote:
>
> > Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
look
> > in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will
see
> > serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint
marks in
> > dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
> > unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix
for
> > it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
these
> > wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
hold
> > it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
> > Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on
to
> > the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
2200 is
> > newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
not
> > suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
might
> > also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers
or
> > Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
> > solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and
will
> > probably solve the problem.
> >
> > "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> > news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
on
> >>an
> >>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
> >>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
they
> >>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> >>supply
> >>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> >>scuffing,
> >>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
> >>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
or
> >>envelopes).
> >>
> >>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> >>straight without exit rollers?
> >>
> >>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> >>
> >>--
> >>- Alan Justice
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 5:15:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:36:28 GMT, "Alan Justice"
<spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:

>I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think there
>would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?

Yes. Use matt or satin (Semi gloss) papers. The inks take forever to
dry on glossy and when they do they bronze anyway.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 5:15:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hecate wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:36:28 GMT, "Alan Justice"
><spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think there
>>would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?
>>
>>
>
>Yes. Use matt or satin (Semi gloss) papers. The inks take forever to
>dry on glossy and when they do they bronze anyway.
>
>
>

My Canon IP4000 has not had any problem of this kind. It produces
beautiful glossy prints. So far I have not experienced any fading but
time will tell.

> --
>
>Hecate - The Real One
>Hecate@newsguy.com
>Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
>you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 1:09:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I live on the north coast of California, where it rains about 80" a year.
Could the humidity be slowing down the ink drying, so that I get the scuff
marks from the exit rollers, and, now, marks from the pizza wheels? Would a
fan help? Dehumidifier?

--
- Alan Justice

"Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
news:4pw7e.6334$An2.2705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The "pizza wheels" come before the exit wheels, and are closer together.
> The scuffs are from the exit wheels (two apposing). I can inactivate some
> of them, but with all out, the paper doesn't feed right.
>
> --
> - Alan Justice
>
> "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:o 1j7e.1446$J12.49@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
look
> > in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will
see
> > serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint
marks
> in
> > dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
> > unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix
for
> > it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
> these
> > wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
> hold
> > it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
> > Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on
to
> > the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
2200
> is
> > newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
> not
> > suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
> might
> > also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers
> or
> > Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
> > solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and
will
> > probably solve the problem.
> >
> > "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> > news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
> on
> > > an
> > > Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a
uniform
> > > color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
> they
> > > claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> > > supply
> > > "exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> > > scuffing,
> > > but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
(45x6)
> > > simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
> or
> > > envelopes).
> > >
> > > Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> > > straight without exit rollers?
> > >
> > > Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Alan Justice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:03:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:12:15 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Hecate wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:36:28 GMT, "Alan Justice"
>><spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think there
>>>would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yes. Use matt or satin (Semi gloss) papers. The inks take forever to
>>dry on glossy and when they do they bronze anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>
>My Canon IP4000 has not had any problem of this kind. It produces
>beautiful glossy prints. So far I have not experienced any fading but
>time will tell.
>
It wouldn't. It's dye based. It's usable with glossy. The only
difference is colour depth and longevity, or, in the case of Canon
"shortevity".

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 7:47:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Most people do not experience a problem as a result of moving the exit
rollers up slightly, from the reports I've received. Perhaps they do
not print on the last 1/2" of the paper.

There are a number of web pages from several of the 3rd party ink
companies and elsewhere that make suggestions on resolving this issue.

I also believe there is an adjustment in the driver that allows for the
printing process to be slowed down.

Glossy papers are more prone to this problem than matte papers.

Art

Alan Justice wrote:

> Unfortunately, those exit rollers do serve a purpose. By propping them up,
> the paper is not held or advanced during about the last 1/2", so it goes
> askew.
>
> --
> - Alan Justice
>
> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:rVM7e.28745$VF5.5050@edtnps89...
>
>>The 2200's design didn't fully take into account the slower drying speed
>>of Ultrachrome inks with some papers. As a result, the image can be
>>damaged by the rollers as it leaves the printer.
>>
>>There are a number of devices available (home brew to commercial) that
>>lift part of the roller mechanism to reduce the pressure on the print as
>>it leaves the printer when these circumstances develop.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>Burt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
>
> look
>
>>>in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will
>
> see
>
>>>serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint
>
> marks in
>
>>>dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
>>>unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix
>
> for
>
>>>it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
>
> these
>
>>>wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
>
> hold
>
>>>it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
>>>Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on
>
> to
>
>>>the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
>
> 2200 is
>
>>>newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
>
> not
>
>>>suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
>
> might
>
>>>also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers
>
> or
>
>>>Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
>>>solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and
>
> will
>
>>>probably solve the problem.
>>>
>>>"Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
>>>news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
>
> on
>
>>>>an
>>>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a uniform
>>>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
>
> they
>
>>>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
>>>>supply
>>>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>>>scuffing,
>>>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets (45x6)
>>>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
>
> or
>
>>>>envelopes).
>>>>
>>>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>>>straight without exit rollers?
>>>>
>>>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>- Alan Justice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 10:51:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I should probably just ignore you at this point, because you know full
well that there is no comparison between the Canon IP4000 and the Epson
2200 in terms of the nature of the requirements of the output.

The IP4000 is a dye ink printer, letter size and uses CMYK (4) colors.

The 2200 is a pigment, resin encapsulated ink printer, medium carriage
size (13") and uses CcMmYKK (6) colors.

Whether your print fade or not isn't the issue for anyone other than
yourself. I would warn anyone who needs image permanence, either for
their own purposes or if they sell their work, not to use Canon OEM
inks. All dye inks fade, and Canon's tends to do so more quickly than
other manufacturer's OEM inks of today. There may be 3rd party inks for
Canon printers that are better, however.

The inks supplied with the Epson 2200 have been rigorously tested by 3rd
party professional labs. They have very good fade resistance. Those
same qualities that make these inks so permanent can also cause some of
the drying problems with inks on glossy paper. Epson resolved this by
changing the design of the exit wheels of newer printer using these
types of inks. Most people who use the 2200 have resolved the problem
when they use glossy papers by rasing those wheels without consequence.

If your ignorance wasn't so intentional, I'd be much more forgiving, but
the fact that you intentionally lie by omission, does no one any benefit
who reads your posts, and I can only recommend to others that they do
not consider your experiences and recommendations seriously since your
credibility is flawed and they may be sorry for considering your
comments in making their purchasing decisions.

Art


measekite wrote:

>
>
> Hecate wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:36:28 GMT, "Alan Justice"
>> <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think
>>> there
>>> would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes. Use matt or satin (Semi gloss) papers. The inks take forever to
>> dry on glossy and when they do they bronze anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>
> My Canon IP4000 has not had any problem of this kind. It produces
> beautiful glossy prints. So far I have not experienced any fading but
> time will tell.
>
>> --
>>
>> Hecate - The Real One
>> Hecate@newsguy.com Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
>> you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 12:04:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Firstly, to answer your question, yes, excess humidity will have it's
effect.

Not just because the ink dries more slowly, but because the paper is
hydroscopic and absorbs moisture. You might wish to keep the stored
blank paper sealed as much as possible, or even toss some silica gel
with the paper in a paper storage device.

I know of some people who were using hair dryers with their 2200 output
to try to dry it more rapidly. Results were variable, and I'm sure that
heat is not good for the synthetic rubber wheels.

I would suggest you look into the issue on Google. There are several
web sites offering easy ways to adapt your printer to resolve the exit
wheel issue. There is something for the "pizza" wheels as well, but in
some models that requires surgery.

BTW, I live on the west coast of Vancouver Islands, and we have similar
rainfall issues part of the year.

Art


Alan Justice wrote:

> I live on the north coast of California, where it rains about 80" a year.
> Could the humidity be slowing down the ink drying, so that I get the scuff
> marks from the exit rollers, and, now, marks from the pizza wheels? Would a
> fan help? Dehumidifier?
>
> --
> - Alan Justice
>
> "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> news:4pw7e.6334$An2.2705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>The "pizza wheels" come before the exit wheels, and are closer together.
>>The scuffs are from the exit wheels (two apposing). I can inactivate some
>>of them, but with all out, the paper doesn't feed right.
>>
>>--
>>- Alan Justice
>>
>>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>news:o 1j7e.1446$J12.49@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>>Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
>
> look
>
>>>in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will
>
> see
>
>>>serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint
>
> marks
>
>>in
>>
>>>dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
>>>unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix
>
> for
>
>>>it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
>>
>>these
>>
>>>wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
>>
>>hold
>>
>>>it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in my
>>>Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on
>
> to
>
>>>the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
>
> 2200
>
>>is
>>
>>>newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
>>
>>not
>>
>>>suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
>>
>>might
>>
>>>also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson printers
>>
>>or
>>
>>>Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
>>>solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and
>
> will
>
>>>probably solve the problem.
>>>
>>>"Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
>>>news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
>>
>>on
>>
>>>>an
>>>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a
>
> uniform
>
>>>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
>>
>>they
>>
>>>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
>>>>supply
>>>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
>>>>scuffing,
>>>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
>
> (45x6)
>
>>>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
>>
>>or
>>
>>>>envelopes).
>>>>
>>>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
>>>>straight without exit rollers?
>>>>
>>>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>- Alan Justice
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:39:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> I should probably just ignore you at this point, because you know full
> well that there is no comparison between the Canon IP4000 and the
> Epson 2200 in terms of the nature of the requirements of the output.
>
> The IP4000 is a dye ink printer, letter size and uses CMYK (4) colors.
>
> The 2200 is a pigment, resin encapsulated ink printer, medium carriage
> size (13") and uses CcMmYKK (6) colors.


I hear the high gloss prints do not look so good. That is why the R1800
has a gloss optomizer that is supposed to be a big improvement. Still,
people that have seen the results of both have said (and on this NG
also) that prints from a dye based printer (especially Canon Pixma
Printers and the i Series) are much more striking and vivid.

>
> Whether your print fade or not isn't the issue for anyone other than
> yourself. I would warn anyone who needs image permanence, either for
> their own purposes or if they sell their work, not to use Canon OEM
> inks. All dye inks fade, and Canon's tends to do so more quickly than
> other manufacturer's OEM inks of today. There may be 3rd party inks
> for Canon printers that are better, however.
>
> The inks supplied with the Epson 2200 have been rigorously tested by
> 3rd party professional labs. They have very good fade resistance.
> Those same qualities that make these inks so permanent can also cause
> some of the drying problems with inks on glossy paper. Epson resolved
> this by changing the design of the exit wheels of newer printer using
> these types of inks. Most people who use the 2200 have resolved the
> problem when they use glossy papers by rasing those wheels without
> consequence.
>
> If your ignorance wasn't so intentional, I'd be much more forgiving,
> but the fact that you intentionally lie by omission, does no one any
> benefit who reads your posts, and I can only recommend to others that
> they do not consider your experiences and recommendations seriously
> since your credibility is flawed and they may be sorry for considering
> your comments in making their purchasing decisions.
>
> Art
>
>
> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hecate wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:36:28 GMT, "Alan Justice"
>>> <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've only used the Epson Premium Glossy Photo papers. Do you think
>>>> there
>>>> would be less of a scuffing if I switched to another paper?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. Use matt or satin (Semi gloss) papers. The inks take forever to
>>> dry on glossy and when they do they bronze anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> My Canon IP4000 has not had any problem of this kind. It produces
>> beautiful glossy prints. So far I have not experienced any fading
>> but time will tell.
>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Hecate - The Real One
>>> Hecate@newsguy.com Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
>>> you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
>>>
>>>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 8:38:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try dried vs undried paper.

--
- Alan Justice

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:_1o9e.34787$yV3.10014@clgrps12...
> Firstly, to answer your question, yes, excess humidity will have it's
> effect.
>
> Not just because the ink dries more slowly, but because the paper is
> hydroscopic and absorbs moisture. You might wish to keep the stored
> blank paper sealed as much as possible, or even toss some silica gel
> with the paper in a paper storage device.
>
> I know of some people who were using hair dryers with their 2200 output
> to try to dry it more rapidly. Results were variable, and I'm sure that
> heat is not good for the synthetic rubber wheels.
>
> I would suggest you look into the issue on Google. There are several
> web sites offering easy ways to adapt your printer to resolve the exit
> wheel issue. There is something for the "pizza" wheels as well, but in
> some models that requires surgery.
>
> BTW, I live on the west coast of Vancouver Islands, and we have similar
> rainfall issues part of the year.
>
> Art
>
>
> Alan Justice wrote:
>
> > I live on the north coast of California, where it rains about 80" a
year.
> > Could the humidity be slowing down the ink drying, so that I get the
scuff
> > marks from the exit rollers, and, now, marks from the pizza wheels?
Would a
> > fan help? Dehumidifier?
> >
> > --
> > - Alan Justice
> >
> > "Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> > news:4pw7e.6334$An2.2705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >>The "pizza wheels" come before the exit wheels, and are closer
together.
> >>The scuffs are from the exit wheels (two apposing). I can inactivate
some
> >>of them, but with all out, the paper doesn't feed right.
> >>
> >>--
> >>- Alan Justice
> >>
> >>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> >>news:o 1j7e.1446$J12.49@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> >>
> >>>Sounds like the famous Epson "pizza cutter" wheels. Open the lid and
> >
> > look
> >
> >>>in the feed area where the paper comes out after printing and you will
> >
> > see
> >
> >>>serrated wheels on top of the print. They are known to cause faint
> >
> > marks
> >
> >>in
> >>
> >>>dark uniform areas. I have been told that these wheels are absolutely
> >>>unnecessary, but I wouldn't swear to it! I believe you can find a fix
> >
> > for
> >
> >>>it on the MIS ink website. It involves removing the bar that carries
> >>
> >>these
> >>
> >>>wheel guides, putting a thin washer under the bar at each screw area to
> >>
> >>hold
> >>
> >>>it up a bit higher, and replacing the bar. I had the same problem in
my
> >>>Epson Stylus 900. Before I thought to do this fix I decided to move on
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>the Canon i960 for better prints and good, cheap non-OEM inks. Your
> >
> > 2200
> >
> >>is
> >>
> >>>newer technology and a much better printer than my ES 900 was, and I am
> >>
> >>not
> >>
> >>>suggesting a change. If you don't find the answer on the MIS site you
> >>
> >>might
> >>
> >>>also google the problem (might find it under pizza wheels Epson
printers
> >>
> >>or
> >>
> >>>Epson printer guide wheels) and see what you come up with. I like the
> >>>solution I mentioned as it will give you a little more clearance and
> >
> > will
> >
> >>>probably solve the problem.
> >>>
> >>>"Alan Justice" <spam@spamspamspam.spam> wrote in message
> >>>news:o 1d7e.5672$lP1.4011@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>>
> >>>>The exit rollers cause scuff marks on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper
> >>
> >>on
> >>
> >>>>an
> >>>>Epson 2200 printer. They are parallel lines, most visible on a
> >
> > uniform
> >
> >>>>color. It may be the increased fragiligy of the MediaStreet ink (but
> >>
> >>they
> >>
> >>>>claim Epson has acknowledged that problem for their inks, too). They
> >>>>supply
> >>>>"exit flags" to hold up the top exit rollers. This eliminates the
> >>>>scuffing,
> >>>>but then the paper comes out crooked at the end, and small sheets
> >
> > (45x6)
> >
> >>>>simply stop feeding. I've tried changing the paper thickness (regular
> >>
> >>or
> >>
> >>>>envelopes).
> >>>>
> >>>>Is there a solution, such as a way to keep the paper going and going
> >>>>straight without exit rollers?
> >>>>
> >>>>Is it a MediaStreet problem, or do Epson inks also behave this way?
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>- Alan Justice
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 2:48:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:51:35 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>I should probably just ignore you at this point, because you know full
>well that there is no comparison between the Canon IP4000 and the Epson
>2200 in terms of the nature of the requirements of the output.
>
I wouldn't bother. It's perfectly clear that he just doesn't
understand the difference.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
April 21, 2005 12:22:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

well, it's not the humidity... I live in high desert (really... nearly
1.25 miles above sea level) where it's extremely dry.

I'm having the same roller scuff issue using the Niagra system on my
2200. I just tried using the exit flags, but the cart crashed into
the exit wheels and caused the paper to fail to feed. The result was
a pool of ink on one end of somewhat expensive paper.

I did not have this problem with the Epson Ultrachrome inks on Premium
Luster, Premium Glossy, or Enhanced Matte (all from espon, in sizes up
to Super B). However, I switched to the Mediastreet system
and tried using Ilford Smooth Pearl
(13x19) and have had nothing but problems in continuous tone images.
Smaller 4x6 on glossy stock doesn't seem to have a problem.

So, I can't offer anything but sympathy at this point. I hope I
haven't hosed my 2200 with those damned flags... any idea how to get
them to work properly??
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 9:33:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I cannot recall offhand, but one type of Ilford paper is considered
completely inappropriate for Epson pigment colorant inks. Ilford has
two types, Classic and Smooth. Also what inks are you using with your
bulk ink systems?

Art

lokki wrote:

> well, it's not the humidity... I live in high desert (really... nearly
> 1.25 miles above sea level) where it's extremely dry.
>
> I'm having the same roller scuff issue using the Niagra system on my
> 2200. I just tried using the exit flags, but the cart crashed into
> the exit wheels and caused the paper to fail to feed. The result was
> a pool of ink on one end of somewhat expensive paper.
>
> I did not have this problem with the Epson Ultrachrome inks on Premium
> Luster, Premium Glossy, or Enhanced Matte (all from espon, in sizes up
> to Super B). However, I switched to the Mediastreet system
> and tried using Ilford Smooth Pearl
> (13x19) and have had nothing but problems in continuous tone images.
> Smaller 4x6 on glossy stock doesn't seem to have a problem.
>
> So, I can't offer anything but sympathy at this point. I hope I
> haven't hosed my 2200 with those damned flags... any idea how to get
> them to work properly??
>
April 26, 2005 8:33:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hi Arthur,

I hadn't heard about the Ilford papers - time to google! Should have
done that, before...

I am using the MediaStreet G-chrome w/ photo black. On Epson's premium
glossy, they look incredible, and seem to sit in the resin very nicely
(no metamerism or bronzing).

Truth be known, I really wish I'd bought the matte inks. Most of the
images I print look much better on matte papers, but the photo ink
(as expected) is too light. My prints don't usually have solid white
areas, and I'm not keen on gloss for anything larger than 5x7
portraiture. Even premium lustre at 8x10 is pushing it for me.
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 2:13:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I happen to also prefer matte surfaces for fine art images. They
provide a more "absorbing" image with less barrier from the paper
surface, visually.

Art

lokki wrote:

> Hi Arthur,
>
> I hadn't heard about the Ilford papers - time to google! Should have
> done that, before...
>
> I am using the MediaStreet G-chrome w/ photo black. On Epson's premium
> glossy, they look incredible, and seem to sit in the resin very nicely
> (no metamerism or bronzing).
>
> Truth be known, I really wish I'd bought the matte inks. Most of the
> images I print look much better on matte papers, but the photo ink
> (as expected) is too light. My prints don't usually have solid white
> areas, and I'm not keen on gloss for anything larger than 5x7
> portraiture. Even premium lustre at 8x10 is pushing it for me.
>
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 5:44:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I get the scuffing on Epson Premium Glossy. Do you recommend another paper
(that would dry faster, I guess) that won't be plagued by the scuffing?

--
- Alan Justice

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:svobe.6905$tg1.6469@edtnps84...
> I happen to also prefer matte surfaces for fine art images. They
> provide a more "absorbing" image with less barrier from the paper
> surface, visually.
>
> Art
>
> lokki wrote:
>
> > Hi Arthur,
> >
> > I hadn't heard about the Ilford papers - time to google! Should have
> > done that, before...
> >
> > I am using the MediaStreet G-chrome w/ photo black. On Epson's premium
> > glossy, they look incredible, and seem to sit in the resin very nicely
> > (no metamerism or bronzing).
> >
> > Truth be known, I really wish I'd bought the matte inks. Most of the
> > images I print look much better on matte papers, but the photo ink
> > (as expected) is too light. My prints don't usually have solid white
> > areas, and I'm not keen on gloss for anything larger than 5x7
> > portraiture. Even premium lustre at 8x10 is pushing it for me.
> >
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:44:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

If you like matte papers, try one of Epson's matte surfaces, like
Enhanced Matte, or Velvet Fine Art, or Watercolor paper. In the glossy,
the recommend ones include: Premium Glossy Photo (which you have tried),
Premium Luster and Premium Semigloss.

There are instructions on raising the rubber output wheels to prevent
the streaking, (look it up in Google).

Art

Alan Justice wrote:

> I get the scuffing on Epson Premium Glossy. Do you recommend another paper
> (that would dry faster, I guess) that won't be plagued by the scuffing?
>
> --
> - Alan Justice
>
> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:svobe.6905$tg1.6469@edtnps84...
>
>>I happen to also prefer matte surfaces for fine art images. They
>>provide a more "absorbing" image with less barrier from the paper
>>surface, visually.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>lokki wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi Arthur,
>>>
>>>I hadn't heard about the Ilford papers - time to google! Should have
>>>done that, before...
>>>
>>>I am using the MediaStreet G-chrome w/ photo black. On Epson's premium
>>>glossy, they look incredible, and seem to sit in the resin very nicely
>>>(no metamerism or bronzing).
>>>
>>>Truth be known, I really wish I'd bought the matte inks. Most of the
>>>images I print look much better on matte papers, but the photo ink
>>>(as expected) is too light. My prints don't usually have solid white
>>>areas, and I'm not keen on gloss for anything larger than 5x7
>>>portraiture. Even premium lustre at 8x10 is pushing it for me.
>>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 7:39:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

MediaStreet supplies "flags" to raise the wheels, but doing so causes the
paper to feed crooked toward the end. I'm about ready to give up on MS inks
and go back to Epson.

--
- Alan Justice

"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:o _pce.9643$3V3.1932@edtnps89...
> If you like matte papers, try one of Epson's matte surfaces, like
> Enhanced Matte, or Velvet Fine Art, or Watercolor paper. In the glossy,
> the recommend ones include: Premium Glossy Photo (which you have tried),
> Premium Luster and Premium Semigloss.
>
> There are instructions on raising the rubber output wheels to prevent
> the streaking, (look it up in Google).
>
> Art
>
> Alan Justice wrote:
>
> > I get the scuffing on Epson Premium Glossy. Do you recommend another
paper
> > (that would dry faster, I guess) that won't be plagued by the scuffing?
> >
> > --
> > - Alan Justice
> >
> > "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> > news:svobe.6905$tg1.6469@edtnps84...
> >
> >>I happen to also prefer matte surfaces for fine art images. They
> >>provide a more "absorbing" image with less barrier from the paper
> >>surface, visually.
> >>
> >>Art
> >>
> >>lokki wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi Arthur,
> >>>
> >>>I hadn't heard about the Ilford papers - time to google! Should have
> >>>done that, before...
> >>>
> >>>I am using the MediaStreet G-chrome w/ photo black. On Epson's premium
> >>>glossy, they look incredible, and seem to sit in the resin very nicely
> >>>(no metamerism or bronzing).
> >>>
> >>>Truth be known, I really wish I'd bought the matte inks. Most of the
> >>>images I print look much better on matte papers, but the photo ink
> >>>(as expected) is too light. My prints don't usually have solid white
> >>>areas, and I'm not keen on gloss for anything larger than 5x7
> >>>portraiture. Even premium lustre at 8x10 is pushing it for me.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 7:44:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Lokki - sounds like we have the exact same problem. Tried a fan? I really
need to work this out or go back to Epson inks. Please keep me posted on
your efforts.

[I tried to email you privately but could not figure out the code. Get me
at my first name underscore my last name at earthlink and then dot and net.]

Alan Justice


"lokki" <lokki@act-1-dot-net.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:D 78a9$426762c9$455da0d2$25293@allthenewsgroups.com...
> well, it's not the humidity... I live in high desert (really... nearly
> 1.25 miles above sea level) where it's extremely dry.
>
> I'm having the same roller scuff issue using the Niagra system on my
> 2200. I just tried using the exit flags, but the cart crashed into
> the exit wheels and caused the paper to fail to feed. The result was
> a pool of ink on one end of somewhat expensive paper.
>
> I did not have this problem with the Epson Ultrachrome inks on Premium
> Luster, Premium Glossy, or Enhanced Matte (all from espon, in sizes up
> to Super B). However, I switched to the Mediastreet system
> and tried using Ilford Smooth Pearl
> (13x19) and have had nothing but problems in continuous tone images.
> Smaller 4x6 on glossy stock doesn't seem to have a problem.
>
> So, I can't offer anything but sympathy at this point. I hope I
> haven't hosed my 2200 with those damned flags... any idea how to get
> them to work properly??
>
May 11, 2005 9:28:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hi Alan - the reply system here doesn't seem to be working, so I
missed your post.

I've not tried a fan, as I think I'm going to switch over to matte
printing. Kind of a loss, because I do like to print 4x6 and 5x7
snaps on glossy paper.

I recently saw another vendor that seems to have a different setup.
The display was on a 4000, and used tanks attached to the carts
themselves. Naturally, the demo guy said he never has a problem with
the rollers, but he's not tried it on a 2200 (read: no help there).
However, the prints were stunning.

I'm not sure what to do, especially since I don't seem to get the
flags to work properly. The cart carrier appears to crash into the
wheels, regardless of what I try when installing the flags. If I
could get that part to work properly, I might consider making a
'pusher' for the paper... sacrificing a sheet or two of the same
stock and taping 3-4" on the trailing edge (Not sure how the 2200
senses the paper). Of course, another alternative is to use rolls and
not worry about the wheels, letting the cutter do the work. My concern
is paper curl and whether the flags get in the way of the cutting
head.

I'll try and email you this week.
!