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1680 x 1050 ... where are the cards ???

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June 28, 2006 11:59:30 PM

8O :? :x :evil:  :cry:  :?:

I just bought a 20" Apple Cinema Display (the newer aluminum model) to use with my PC. Like many widescreen LCD panels now on the market, it's native resolution is 1680 x 1050 and has an standard DVI link, so this is hardly an Apple/PC incompatibility issue ... but where are the cards that support it ???

My own Sapphire video card supports 1600 x 1024 and many other resolutions beyond that, in widescreen formats, but not 1680 x 1050, so I went looking for a card that did. I called BFG Technologies. The tech rep with whom I spoke looked up all the info he could and told me that all the cards in their lineup only support resolutions up to 1600 x 1024 for the DVI link. He said that if I wanted to use the analog D-Sub VGA connector I would have more flexibility and should be able to match the native res of the display. Even if I wanted to go that route, just one problem, no one makes a VGA-to-DVI adapter, only the opposite exists, a DVI-to-VGA dongle. Suspecting that I would get the same answer at every manufacturer, I called Apple's support. I was directed here:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301066

I looked at the PNY Technologies lineup and same as BFG and Sappire, maximum resolution for DVI is 1600 x 1200. what the hell is going on??? What cards are powering all these 1680 x 1050 20" widescreen displays? I am exhausted and perplexed by this discrepancy. Does anyone out there have a display like this that is able to run it at *native* resolution? If so, please let me in on this industry secret! I'll be most appreciative!

More about : 1680 1050 cards

June 29, 2006 12:34:18 AM

y dont you just plug in your monitor and give it a shot..
June 29, 2006 1:45:55 AM

Oh I intend to as soon as it arrives, believe me! I just know what LCDs look like when they are not run at their native res, and it's crap. If I'm lucky and it somehow looks native, fantastic. I'm rarely that lucky however, so the search continues...
Related resources
June 29, 2006 2:33:30 AM

All Radeons since at least the 8500 support 1680x1050. All current Nvidia cards also support it. Intel GMA supports it. It will be automatically detected by the video card. You will be pleased. :D 
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 4:31:02 AM

First things first, this silly title makes me laugh for someone who uses 'tech' in their name. :roll:

Quote:



My own Sapphire video card supports 1600 x 1024 and many other resolutions beyond that, in widescreen formats, but not 1680 x 1050, so I went looking for a card that did.


They do, the prolem is it won't plug and play recognize them and as such you need to 'help the drivers' recognize that they need to add the resolution, and the best way without using something like powerstip is to find moded .inf files. Use google. Or else just use a 3rd part app like powerstip.

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no one makes a VGA-to-DVI adapter, only the opposite exists, a DVI-to-VGA dongle.


Actually they do make them I use one every day. However it still wont help you because it's for the analogue part of DVI, since that's all there is to send, and that don't work for you.

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Suspecting that I would get the same answer at every manufacturer, I called Apple's support. I was directed here:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301066


St00pid Apple can't even get THAT right, it Quadro, NOT Quatro! :roll:

Also nV cards aren't the only ones that have Dual-Link DVI in fact there are more ATi cards with dual-link than nV cards, and Matrox also has dual-link cards as does S3. But nice of Apple to direct you to overpriced workstation cards as a solution instead of cheaper home/gaming solutions.

A $crew it just return it and get the better Dell 20" anyways! :twisted:

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I looked at the PNY Technologies lineup and same as BFG and Sappire, maximum resolution for DVI is 1600 x 1200. what the hell is going on???


You're not looking hard enough.

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What cards are powering all these 1680 x 1050 20" widescreen displays?


I've seen people's rigs with them hooked up to Radeon 9600s and 9800s , and I just noticed a review with it attached to an X800.

Depending on what you're doing with the monitor and what Sapphire you own you may not need a new card, otherwise I'd suggest Any of the ATi 1K lneup (X1300-1900), or from nV the GF7600 or GF7900.
June 29, 2006 4:33:36 AM

Thanks everyone!

Now here's the tricky part ... At least for now, I need a card that supports 1680 x 1050 in a 32-bit PCI version. I'm currently using my single PCIe x16 slot for a high-bandwidth 8-lane Areca RAID 5 controller.

Why not upgrade to a different board you ask? Well I have a dual Opteron system, and I'd like to keep it that way. I currently have an Asus K8N-DL mobo. It's standard ATX formfactor so most of the real estate is consumed by the dual 940-pin sockets and only has a single PCIe x16 slot. I'm holding off on upgrading the mobo until AMD's next-gen Opteron platform with Socket F (1207 pins) hits the market. I'm hoping iWill or Tyan then emerges with an Extended ATX mobo with dual Socket F, SLI and another PCIe slot with at least 8 lanes. AMD has had Socket F slated for release in the first half of 2006, hopefully my wait won't be long, but until then, I need a PCI video card supporting 1680 x 1050 B-)

Areca ARC-1210 - high-performance RAID 5 SATA ll Disk Array host bus adapter
Asus K8N-DL - Dual-Opteron motherboard with NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Access)
Socket F explanation on Wikipedia
Socket F (1207-pin) AMD Opteron 800 Roadmaps
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 4:58:01 AM

Then there's only one, if you want upgradability (ieDual Link) Matrox;

http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstation/3dws/products/par...

For just now gaming, then go with either of the following a GF6200PCI or GF7300PCI, not sure if the Radeon 9200 would support it, but it might, but not a great solution.

Seriously though if you're gaming, buy an xbox, because you're not going to do it with PCI, as for 2D Matrox is the best choice.
June 29, 2006 5:23:28 AM

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First things first, this silly title makes me laugh for someone who uses 'tech' in their name. Rolling Eyes


I don't like it when people call me that in person anymore (it is kinda silly), so now I just use it as a handle online ... only because I've never met anyone else whose tech knowledge actually is as broad as my own. The nickname was given to me a long time a go (10 years I think) because I seemed to everyone that I knew something about so many different types of technology. It started with a girl who used to call me the technology kid. B-)
June 29, 2006 8:04:58 AM

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Then there's only one, if you want upgradability (ieDual Link) Matrox;

Very nice card! Out of my range, and I wouldn't need the upgradablility so much.
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For just now gaming, then go with either of the following a GF6200PCI or GF7300PCI, not sure if the Radeon 9200 would support it, but it might, but not a great solution

Not interested in gaming at this time, (don't have time or money for it anyway). This is simply a power rig for OS virtualization and serious multitasking. Gaming wouldn't appeal to me unless it looked and felt really, really fantastic. I don't like to do anything half-assed. Maybe when I have the capacity for SLI I'll consider adding a pair of decent graphics cards and an Ageia PhysX card ...

Right now all I need is decent native 2D support for 1680 x 1050. I may have to wait until I have more PCIe slots then it seems ... and just deal with aliased 1600 x 1024 until a decent motherboard I can upgrade to is produced.

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Or else just use a 3rd part app like powerstip

hmm, I've begun researching it, but could you give me the cliffnotes version? (I'm still trying to find the homepage)

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St00pid Apple can't even get THAT right, it Quadro, NOT Quatro! Rolling Eyes
Yes, those stoopid asses, you'd think if they're recommending $700+ hardware they'd get the name right!

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VGA-to-DVI adapter ... Actually they do make them I use one every day

In this case I'm not sure which end is considered male/female, but do you mean it has VGA pins to connect to the card and DVI pinholes (like on a card) for the display? j/c

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Also nV cards aren't the only ones that have Dual-Link DVI
(I figured as such, but that's what apple listed)

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But nice of Apple to direct you to overpriced workstation cards as a solution instead of cheaper home/gaming solutions.

Welllll, that's Apple for ya I guess.

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A $crew it just return it and get the better Dell 20" anyways! Twisted Evil

You mean the UltraSharp 2007FP I assume. I considered that, and the Viewsonic VX2025WM. I know the Dell has a better contrast ratio and added connectivity. I guess because the display I'm replacing is a 17" 1280 x 1024 Viewsonic VP171 with 400:1 contrast tatio which I'm very happy with (equal to the Cinema Display), I couldn't resist the slim aluminum construction, which will go well with the all-aluminum design of my rig I built, and the aluminum bench I'm designing to house it and all my other gear B-)

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You're not looking hard enough

Oh I looked, and found, but not in PCI Interface (I forgot to mension that)

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and what Sapphire you own

It's a laughable Radeon 7000 with 64MB (PN: 1024-9C02-00-SA) ... as I said before, not a gamer, I'm a poweruser ;-)
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 1:46:43 PM

Quote:

Right now all I need is decent native 2D support for 1680 x 1050. I may have to wait until I have more PCIe slots then it seems ... and just deal with aliased 1600 x 1024 until a decent motherboard I can upgrade to is produced.


Well really for that, I'd said look towards the GF7 series PCI, they are rare as heck as is the GF6200 PCI, but they would likely fit the bill IMO. If you just need good 2D and no heavy 3D lifiting they'll do fine.

Quote:

hmm, I've begun researching it, but could you give me the cliffnotes version? (I'm still trying to find the homepage)


Google i your friends :tongue: ;
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

It's a very good tweak tool, and it's been around forever.

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Yes, those stoopid asses, you'd think if they're recommending $700+ hardware they'd get the name right!


Exactly. Hmm, the page has been there since 2005, make me wonder how many people really look to their docs first?

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VGA-to-DVI adapter ... Actually they do make them I use one every day


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In this case I'm not sure which end is considered male/female, but do you mean it has VGA pins to connect to the card and DVI pinholes (like on a card) for the display?
j/c

Actually I have both an they're male-female I posted pics a while ago (the pics are on my laptop at home right now), The typically white ones are DVI to VGA to allow you to hook up a VGA monitor to DVI-I card (DVI-D won't have analogue female contacts to send info with nor the RAMDACs). The Blue VGA to DVI has all the DB-15 pins, and then all the DVI-I pins (I think it's single-link configuration only IIRC [don't want to bother unhooking my P260 right now]), however only the analogue holes have receiving female contacts for the analogue portion of the screen. I used to have a DVI-A cable for my workstation, but when we sswitched to dell we lost our AGP port and our SIS cards, and I had to get the VGA-DVI connector if I wanted to keep my 2 station switching capability (also handy with watching movies from laptop on 21" CRT instead of 17" LCD 8) ).


Quote:
You mean the UltraSharp 2007FP I assume. I considered that, and the Viewsonic VX2025WM. I know the Dell has a better contrast ratio and added connectivity. I guess because the display I'm replacing is a 17" 1280 x 1024 Viewsonic VP171 with 400:1 contrast tatio which I'm very happy with (equal to the Cinema Display), I couldn't resist the slim aluminum construction, which will go well with the all-aluminum design of my rig I built, and the aluminum bench I'm designing to house it and all my other gear B-)


I understand, they are SSsssexy; but the reviews I've seen have favoured the DELLs, especially when working on PCs instead of MACs, surprisingly the colour fidelity favoured the DELL, maybe I shouldn't be too surprised cause while MAC-heads were yapping about the original CinemaHD's quality Iiyama was making a better LCD for photo/video editors. I know BenQ has some nice slim bezel ones, but haven'ts seen many reviews of quality for that model (just the big black ones).

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Oh I looked, and found, but not in PCI Interface (I forgot to mension that)


Yeah that makes it infinitely harder, and it's understandable why you didn't find much. Truely your best bet at finding and using is the GF6200, unfortunately ATi does support the WS resolutions and Apple monitors better, but with Powerstip you should be fine. You can hack the .inf file for better nV support, or use regedit as well, just depends ojn how much fun you wanna have, especially if you might be dealing vith virtualization tools, not sure how well Powerstip will play with that.

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and what Sapphire you own

It's a laughable Radeon 7000 with 64MB (PN: 1024-9C02-00-SA) ... as I said before, not a gamer, I'm a poweruser ;-)[/quote]

Yeah, but it's OK, it'll do the job for the most part (funny most new integrated is better though). However, just to poke fun at you, if you were a 'poweruser' you would've noticed the terrible 2D quality of the R7000 and yearned for the quality of the R8500LE-9200 for the awesomegra-pics (inside joke) the R7000 is ok, but really Matrox is the way to go. MatROX! :twisted:

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if the 8mb integrated ATi solution that usually comes on most Tyan boards isn't better than the R7000 but not by much, It's just too bad they don't put the X200 or GF6150 or even GMA 900/950 or future 965/3000 on server boards. Perfect fit IMO.
June 29, 2006 6:23:00 PM

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GF7 series PCI, they are rare as heck as is the GF6200 PCI
I couldn't find a GF7 PCI on a quick web search, but did (I think) find a GeForce 6200 PCI on eBay ... Is this what you mean?:

3D Fuzion Geforce 6200 128MB PCI

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Google i your friends tongue
Yeah, Google even caught your mispelling...
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Or else just use a 3rd part app like powerstip
but I wasn't looking for surge suppressors so I thought maybe it in fact had no "r" in it B-P

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You can hack the .inf file for better nV support, or use regedit as well
Do you mean in addition, or instead of using Powerstrip?
Do you think if I just use Powerstrip I shouldn't even need to change video cards?

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However, just to poke fun at you, if you were a 'poweruser' you would've noticed the terrible 2D quality of the R7000
haha, fair enough, but I never said I was super-impressed with the quality, I had other projects on my plate at the time and didn't have time to research what crappy PCI video card would be better than another crappy video card. My focus was on ditching my $50 PCIe video card for my $350 PCIe ARC-1210 and setting up the storage array ... then upgrading my home-brew water-cooling system with a Thermatron heat exchanger and an additional Eheim pump. It's nearly impossible to be a poweruser at everything all at once, but I try to get around to everything eventually B-)
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 6:58:00 PM

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I couldn't find a GF7 PCI on a quick web search,


Yeah like I said they are rare as heck, I've seen one other person link to one in the past and that was a while back in the Oblivion/ElderScrolls forum. The only one I found with a quick search was one a cnet which was falsely described as PCI but is in fact PCIe.

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but did (I think) find a GeForce 6200 PCI on eBay ... Is this what you mean?


Yep.

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but I wasn't looking for surge suppressors so I thought maybe it in fact had no "r" in it B-P


Dang my feeble brain! Yes dyslexia (seriously) and keyboards are not my friends! D'oh!

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You can hack the .inf file for better nV support, or use regedit as well
Do you mean in addition, or instead of using Powerstrip?

That would be instead of. As in if you felt comfortable enough with the hacking you can just tweak it without 3rd part apps. Basically a trickier way but offers wider range of support.

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Do you think if I just use Powerstrip I shouldn't even need to change video cards?


Well it's worth a try. The R7000 is a very VERY weak card, but you probably wouldn't have a problem is it can truely support 16x12 already. I'm just worried about what are likely weak-A$$ TMDS on those cards.

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haha, fair enough, but I never said I was super-impressed with the quality, I had other projects on my plate at the time and didn't have time to research what crappy PCI video card would be better than another crappy video card.


Yes and in the battle of the PCI crap, Matrox always floats to the top.... umm.... wait that doesn't sound right, I want to praise them, gonna have to rephrase that later! :lol: 

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My focus was on ditching my $50 PCIe video card for my $350 PCIe ARC-1210 and setting up the storage array ... then upgrading my home-brew water-cooling system with a Thermatron heat exchanger and an additional Eheim pump. It's nearly impossible to be a poweruser at everything all at once, but I try to get around to everything eventually B-)


You see I think you're just not thinking big enough, TYAN make a nice Quad Opteron board with dual full 16X PEG slots, AND an 8X slot, now ther ya' go, Wunder-User, and with room for the glowing PCI fan! :mrgreen:

Anywhoo, I personally thinnk the GF6200 would be a wise choice, but hey if you can save any money now to help you to your next build, sure why not try to get that R7000 working with PowerStrip (umm... yeah spelled it right this time), doesn't cost you anything to try when the monitor arrives, and worst case scenario if it doesn't work you just have to wait a few day for your new GF6200 to come in.
June 29, 2006 6:58:25 PM

I've used a geforce ti4400 at 1680x1050 with the DVI connection. plug it in and go.
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 7:03:13 PM

Quote:
I've used a geforce ti4400 at 1680x1050 with the DVI connection. plug it in and go.


And that's the thing, it works for some, but not for others.

Heck they (nV) didn't even add support until last year (for any WS LCDs), and even now it seems pretty hit and miss.
June 29, 2006 7:15:49 PM

Quote:


Why not upgrade to a different board you ask? Well I have a dual Opteron system, and I'd like to keep it that way. I currently have an Asus K8N-DL mobo. It's standard ATX formfactor so most of the real estate is consumed by the dual 940-pin sockets and only has a single PCIe x16 slot. I'm holding off on upgrading the mobo until AMD's next-gen Opteron platform with Socket F (1207 pins) hits the market. I'm hoping iWill or Tyan then emerges with an Extended ATX mobo with dual Socket F, SLI and another PCIe slot with at least 8 lanes. AMD has had Socket F slated for release in the first half of 2006, hopefully my wait won't be long, but until then, I need a PCI video card supporting 1680 x 1050 B-)


Could easily swap to MSI's dual PCIe x8 board. Sell the other on ebay.
June 29, 2006 7:33:13 PM

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All NVIDIA GeforceFX, Geforce 6 and Geforce7 family of GPU's will support the native 1680 x 1050 resolution of the Dell 2005FPW widescreen LCD monitor digitally. Since the Dell 2005FPW uses a non-standard resolution, you may need to add the custom resolution to your display settings by using the Custom Resolutions feature found inside the NVIDIA Forceware Display Properties. The following article describes how to create custom resolutions:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/custom_resolutions.html

If your NVIDIA Display Properties does not show the Custom Resolutions panel, you may add it to your system by downloading the following coolbitsplus.reg registry file in the attachments section below. (Check Post Script)


Bam. There are plenty FX cards that are PCI.

~Ibrahim~

P.S. Direct Link for the coolbits registry.
June 29, 2006 7:44:17 PM

No doubt, but $75 PCIe boards destroy them.
June 29, 2006 7:47:29 PM

Then it is a downright shame he won't sell his motherboard, get a new one, and then buy a new graphic card. Darn! :roll: I'm just messing with you, shabodah. Well, of course a PCIe card'll beat the living hell out of a PCI card, but what where you expecting? A 7950GX2 in PCI?

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 7:57:13 PM

If he's not gaming at all the GF6200 is cheaper and pretty much guaranteed to work with any future build, well at least until they get rid of the PCI & PCI-X slots.
June 29, 2006 8:14:12 PM

Yeah, but not by much. Maybe $10, 20 at the most...Just don't buy the 3D Fuzion 6200: POS, it is. Sure, it is $27.99, but it is too good to be true. I tried it in a 2 systems, no video on either, and yes, I did disable the onboard drivers and delete any of their drivers, and then install nVidia's drivers, and then finally put the card in. 3D Fuzion is a daughter company of BFG Tech., you know.

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 8:18:34 PM

Remember, he's NOT GAMING!

BTW, funny thing is that they didn't initially support the resolution without hacking regedit. It was later added (last year), long after some people has already bought their solutions (like Kinney, it was the one thing he hated). Some of the people who bought SLi for these new 20/24" LCDs were pretty miffed, class action lawsuit talks, etc.

This thread kinda capture the previous situation;
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=1944

Now it still takes tweaks for many people because the monitor is not recognized through plug 'n' play. And there are many ways to fix it, I wasn't sure if Coolbits did custom resolution now or not, I know there was another option when I had my FX that was similar to PowerStrip that allow individual pixel tweaks but it wasn't part of coolbits. Forgot the name though, it's been about a year since I played with it.

Anywhoo, changing the .inf information also does the trick as does going into regedit and adding the resolution. These were the pre coolbits methods.

Quote:
3D Fuzion is a daughter company of BFG Tech., you know.


Yeah I know, they're actually quite expressive about it. But I think it'd be ok for what he's doing, however you mentioning the no video is a little bit of a concern, so he should take that into account.

Still he should give the R7000 a try first because he might not need anything else for now, and really best bet would be to add anything new in his new rig.
June 29, 2006 8:19:41 PM

I hear that, too. Everything depends on application. It's nice to have some flexibility, too, though. I've been hoping to run a good RAID 5 or 6 in one slot myself, but I'm gonna wait to see what happens with socket F and 4x4 myself.
June 29, 2006 8:23:21 PM

Ahhh...So the registry edit is basically the same thing, maybe just more permanent as it is much easier to delete a program then to delete a Registry Key...I've never messed with RAID, but maybe I should start; but you need at least two hard drives for any RAID set-up, something I don't have, lol.

~Ibrahim~
June 29, 2006 8:29:11 PM

More than one hard drive......

I am keeping a good eye on these 2.5" sata/sas drives. They don't use hardly any power and don't take up much space. Getting better and better every month it seems. AND whe 2.5" Solid States are reasonable, they'll be even more fun.
June 29, 2006 8:37:25 PM

Hmmm..Well isn't "at least two hard drives" the same as "more than one"? I'm looking at those hybrid drives, with like 200MB of flash memory...Off-Topic, I know, I know...

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 8:47:14 PM

Yeah the hybrid drives have great potential for laptops, and supposedly vista on laptops is going to at least recommend if not require large flash buffers, which will be nice for battery life (not always spinning when just saving backups of a word/excel file on a plane).
June 29, 2006 9:08:36 PM

Quote:
Hmmm..Well isn't "at least two hard drives" the same as "more than one"? I'm looking at those hybrid drives, with like 200MB of flash memory...Off-Topic, I know, I know...

~Ibrahim~


Yeah, it sure is. I was agreeing with you. I figure raid combined with hybrid/solid state will be fast and not use much power. Don't care if that's off topic :) 
June 29, 2006 9:13:07 PM

Ohhh, lol, sorry. Yeah, it seems like something that should have happened a long time ago, like a lot of things, lol...Thanks!

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
June 29, 2006 11:02:15 PM

Hybrid is different than solid state.

Hybrid is actually slower than most fast drives (like Raptors), because the flash memory doesn't increase transfer speeds, but it does allow stuff to be buffered and accessed quicker than the spin-up of even a SCSI or Raptor drive.

However the faster is the pure solid state of course, like the iRAM by Gigabyte. Currently it's a little limited in size, but they are great for server apps. They've actually had solid state drives for a while of course, but heck just about 10years ago a drive of basically PC133 in a big box cost about $50,000+ for like 2-4GB, and was primarily used for banking servers, like Interac, and other rapid access mission critical stuff.

The fact that we can get more storage for about 1% of the price is somewhat an indicator of things to come as storage gets better, think about it 1TB keychain drive, probably in about 5-7 years. Heck I'm certain 1TB portable deck of cards stlye video player by 2008. Probably a PSP replacement before 2010 with that kind of capacity (which is handy to compliment it's wifi abilities).
June 30, 2006 12:29:04 AM

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Yes and in the battle of the PCI crap, Matrox always floats to the top.... umm.... wait that doesn't sound right, I want to praise them, gonna have to rephrase that later! Laughing
hahahahaha :lol:  (I gotchya on that one anyway, everything I hear tells me Matrox is illest shyt for thier intended purpose)

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TYAN make a nice Quad Opteron board with dual full 16X PEG slots, AND an 8X slot
I try to think only as big as my budget allows, 4-ways are expen$ive, plus, like I said, waiting for Socket F before I plunk down major loot for an E-ATX workstation board ... Still, which model are you referring to? I looked at their 4-ways (and may have missed it), but I didn't see a board that has both full x16 PCIe and another PCIe slot with at least 8 lanes. Closest I saw to what you might be talking about was the Thunder K8QE (S4885) ... but the additional PCIe slots (aside from the two full x16 PCIe slots) only carry a x4 signal. My Areca ARC-1210 requires an 8-lane slot. I didn't see anything about SLI supported on the full x16 slots (and I don't see the jumper card either, I guess that means no SLI support (?) in which case I could use one of those for the ARC-1210. But again, for my next board to be a worthy upgrade, it really should have full-bandwidth x16 SLI plus an x8 or greater slot ... and dual (or quad!) Socket F.

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Anywhoo, I personally thinnk the GF6200 would be a wise choice, but hey if you can save any money now to help you to your next build, sure why not try to get that R7000 working with PowerStrip (umm... yeah spelled it right this time), doesn't cost you anything to try when the monitor arrives, and worst case scenario if it doesn't work you just have to wait a few day for your new GF6200 to come in.
...Werrd, start with the cheaper route, then buy hardware if necessary :mrgreen: sounds good to me!
June 30, 2006 12:30:31 AM

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Acey: I've used a geforce ti4400 at 1680x1050 with the DVI connection. plug it in and go.
I'll keep that in mind if all else fails, thanks!
June 30, 2006 12:58:03 AM

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shabodah: Could easily swap to MSI's dual PCIe x8 board. Sell the other on ebay.


Do you mean the K8N Master2-FAR, with 1 PCIe x4 slot, 2 PCIe x16 slots, and 1 PCI slot ? ... A few problems there:

1) In addition to SLI, I need an 8-lane PCIe slot, this board has only an x4.
2) No NUMA support. One key reason I upgraded from the original K8T Master2-FAR (Mine wasn't v7 but very similar) ... other than to abolish a very rare and crippling problem with the Master2-FAR BIOS preventing me from using a Promise RAID controller without disabling nearly ALL other onboard features, including software RAID (which I needed for my mirrored boot array) ... was to get away from proc 2 needing to "ask proc 1 for permission" to gain memory access, then requiring proc 1 to use it's own cycles to relay memory data to/from proc 2. This was a fundamental bottleneck considering the brilliance of AMD64 and the Opteron platform is the built-in support for dedicated memery access per CPU.
3) Not Socket F (as previously stated a couple times, one of the key criteria warranting a mobo upgrade for me).

Other than those pitfalls, a tempting choice! ... for someone else (but not me :mrgreen: )
June 30, 2006 1:07:40 AM

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...and really best bet would be to add anything new in his new rig.
You meant not to add anything new in his new rig right? And were you talking about me or was that in response to someone else on one of these many subtopics that are proliferating now?
June 30, 2006 1:13:50 AM

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ikjadoon: Ahhh...So the registry edit is basically the same thing, maybe just more permanent as it is much easier to delete a program then to delete a Registry Key...
Hmm, not necessarily, when a reg key is removed, it's usually simply gone (unless a program keeps creating it again), whereas an application uninstaller almost almost always leaves behind all sorts of bits and pieces (especially if it's Norton AV -- or other crap software digs wayyyy too deep into Windows).
June 30, 2006 1:15:58 AM

Well, yeah, but how many people know "regedit.exe"...More know Add/Remove programs, but I do see your point.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 2:12:40 AM

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I try to think only as big as my budget allows, 4-ways are expen$ive, plus, like I said, waiting for Socket F before I plunk down major loot for an E-ATX workstation board ...


Yeah I know I'm just talking about a 'perfect world' where money doesn't matter poking fun at all us mortals. :lol: 

Quote:
Still, which model are you referring to? I looked at their 4-ways (and may have missed it), but I didn't see a board that has both full x16 PCIe and another PCIe slot with at least 8 lanes. Closest I saw to what you might be talking about was the Thunder K8QE (S4885) ... but the additional PCIe slots (aside from the two full x16 PCIe slots) only carry a x4 signal.


That's it, for some reason I remembered it as 2x16 + 1x8, I see them advertised all the time.

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My Areca ARC-1210 requires an 8-lane slot. I didn't see anything about SLI supported on the full x16 slots (and I don't see the jumper card either, I guess that means no SLI support (?)


Actually you can do it without the jumper card, whose main role was lane management not load balancing. One of the guys at nVNews had his dual opty Tyan board with SLI'ed GF7900s. It was a render rig, but really impressive. I don't see the board offering a problem as the lanes are fully open thanks to the dual chipset, something nV promoted for their pro/server line.

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in which case I could use one of those for the ARC-1210. But again, for my next board to be a worthy upgrade, it really should have full-bandwidth x16 SLI plus an x8 or greater slot ... and dual (or quad!) Socket F.


Yeah that would be the way to go, the lanes are there in a few of the tyan boards, just not the layout (and socket F support yet).

I just gave away my old AsusA7M266-D a few month back, and while it was nice, I'm prefering the idea of dual core laptop with Merom in tha fall (some new news there too);
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=623694&starttim...

Good luck with the cards/LCD and with your new build in the future, likely by that time the integrated will be good enough to drive any monitor (even the 30").

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You meant not to add anything new in his new rig right? And were you talking about me or was that in response to someone else on one of these many subtopics that are proliferating now?


Yes, sorry, I meant, not to add anything more to your current rig if you don't need it and then focus on the future build for the future. Needless to say you'll find (if you read here enough) slips like that and the spelling are common for me, my brain is far ahead of my typing which is already fast.

I think you should be fine, and like I said in the other post, work with what you got, and if the R7000 doesn't work then worry about the upgrades, and IMO the GF6200 would be the route to take if you HAVE to do something else.
June 30, 2006 4:41:06 AM

To TheGreatGrapeApe especially, and everyone else... Thanks for all the great ideas on this issue, this would have had me guessing -- err, searching for answers with (probably) fruitless results for quite some time without all your help.

The Cinema Display is on time for delivery on Monday, I'm anxious to get started with making it work, Powerstrip is probably what I'll try first, then if that prooves akward, I may come back for questions on how to hack the driver registry entry or the driver .inf file. (sounds kinda fun actually I'd like to learn how to hack display drivers 8) )

Once I get all this working I'll update my Flikr page with some new pics for anyone interested.

Also, TheGreatGrapeApe, I've become curious, what line of work you in? If I had to guess, I might guess something to do with CAD work or hardware design, based on some of the acronyms you've used...

Also, I would jump in on the discussion on 2.5" SATA/SAS(sy), Solid State, hybrids, and RAM drives ... but just a little preoccupied at the moment, what with a network to build at work and of course the Cinema Display project :mrgreen:
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 3:18:49 PM

Quote:

Also, TheGreatGrapeApe, I've become curious, what line of work you in? If I had to guess, I might guess something to do with CAD work or hardware design, based on some of the acronyms you've used...


I work for a communications company in Canada in their Enterprise solutions team. Basically large-market product planning/design/implementation/testing. I used to work in TV as a cameraman out east (MCTV-NB, CUTV and CFCF in Montreal). Now I mainly do personal editing work for me and my family/friends.

Quote:
Also, I would jump in on the discussion on 2.5" SATA/SAS(sy), Solid State, hybrids, and RAM drives ... but just a little preoccupied at the moment, what with a network to build at work and of course the Cinema Display project :mrgreen:


Yep, it's tough finding time sometimes. Thaknfully can post during breaks/downtime at work.
June 30, 2006 4:16:52 PM

Dude, I think you are over thinking things. Just plug it in.
My ati x300, x700 pro, 7800gt all support the 1680x1050 native resolution. No special adapters needed.
June 30, 2006 7:20:18 PM

I think we clarified that...Pretty much every card on the market, using PowerStrip.

Canada, eh? I've always wanted to live in Canada, sounds better than the US, lol. You must make some great home movies, lol!

~Ibrahim~
June 30, 2006 7:38:29 PM

:| :? :)  8O :D  :mrgreen:

I never would have guessed it would be this easy ... It turns out the first and previous responses I got on this topic were to be heeded! Here's how it went down:

The display arrived today (two days early! WhooohT). :| Plugged it in, booted my system, :? was worried for a minute while I saw nothing but black (except for the white pinhole power LED durring post), :)  then my Windows login screen appeared (albeit quite horizontally stretched). I logged in, went to Display Properties, 8O :D  :mrgreen: and lo and behold, 1680x1050 was just simply there, where it had not been before!

http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=178516716&size=l
(Where Trillain is indicates where it used to hit up against the taskbar and right edge of my old LCD) ... I'll post more pics sooner or later (perhaps sooner if someone requests).

I'm almost dissapointed I din't need to hack anything to make this beauty work! I still am kinda curious as to hack the driver registry entry and/or the driver .inf file ... (where in the registry would I have gone? ... What location would I have found the .inf file ... and what part of the .inf file would I have edited?)
June 30, 2006 7:43:53 PM

Well, I can satisify the registry part: Start, run, regedit.exe Go here: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARENVIDIA CorporationGlobalNVTweak

Right click, New DWORD Value. Name it Coolbits. Then right click coolbits, click modify. Change value data to 3, and it should be there! You may need to reboot, though.

`Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 8:22:16 PM

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Well, I can satisify the registry part: Start, run, regedit.exe Go here: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARENVIDIA CorporationGlobalNVTweak

Right click, New DWORD Value. Name it Coolbits. Then right click coolbits, click modify. Change value data to 3, and it should be there! You may need to reboot, though.


Ummm..... he's using an ATi card, coolbits won't do much for him. :tongue:

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I never would have guessed it would be this easy ... It turns out the first and previous responses I got on this topic were to be heeded!


Yeah it can and usually is that easy, my advice is for when it's NOT, which is sometimes the case. IT's easier to answer when you've got the stuff in front of you and know what the problem is, but pre-emptive questions are good just in case.

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I still am kinda curious as to hack the driver registry entry and/or the driver .inf file ... (where in the registry would I have gone? ... What location would I have found the .inf file ... and what part of the .inf file would I have edited?)


Actually, Go to (don't have my official notes at home, but from a previous post of mine elsewhere);

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREATI TechnologiesDriverxxxxDAL

XXXX is usually 0000 or 0001

Find the following entries;

DALNonStandardModesBCDentries (If not there then create)
DALRestrictedModesBCD1

From DALNonStandardModesBCDentries ADD:
16 80 10 50 00 00 00 00

Fromt DALRestrictedModesBCD1 Delete the same value.

That should add it to the available resolutions. Of course since it already auto detected, those changes may now be there automatically.

Rememebr this was back in the early days of WideScreen.

For an .inf file you have to get the original one and hack it, or a pre-hacked one, then create a replacement .inf file for your add/remove hardware and drivers to use. Changing the .inf file takes a little more tweaking because you're dealing with differences between monitor vendors.
June 30, 2006 9:07:50 PM

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8O :? :x :evil:  :cry:  :?:

I just bought a 20" Apple Cinema Display (the newer aluminum model) to use with my PC. Like many widescreen LCD panels now on the market, it's native resolution is 1680 x 1050 and has an standard DVI link, so this is hardly an Apple/PC incompatibility issue ... but where are the cards that support it ???

My own Sapphire video card supports 1600 x 1024 and many other resolutions beyond that, in widescreen formats, but not 1680 x 1050, so I went looking for a card that did. I called BFG Technologies. The tech rep with whom I spoke looked up all the info he could and told me that all the cards in their lineup only support resolutions up to 1600 x 1024 for the DVI link. He said that if I wanted to use the analog D-Sub VGA connector I would have more flexibility and should be able to match the native res of the display. Even if I wanted to go that route, just one problem, no one makes a VGA-to-DVI adapter, only the opposite exists, a DVI-to-VGA dongle. Suspecting that I would get the same answer at every manufacturer, I called Apple's support. I was directed here:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301066

I looked at the PNY Technologies lineup and same as BFG and Sappire, maximum resolution for DVI is 1600 x 1200. what the hell is going on??? What cards are powering all these 1680 x 1050 20" widescreen displays? I am exhausted and perplexed by this discrepancy. Does anyone out there have a display like this that is able to run it at *native* resolution? If so, please let me in on this industry secret! I'll be most appreciative!


It really should work just fine, i worried abt the same thing when i got my 20incher. 1680x1050 isnt mentioned in the list of supported resolutions, and 1600x1200 is listed as the max resolution thru the DVI link.

However, as regarrds the first point, the list of resolutions is retrieved from the display itself, so provided you dont have astone age grahics card, it wil simply retrieve the list of supported resolutions from the display itself, where you can then choose in windows.

As regards the second point, DVI dosent care about the ratio of the picture, just the number of pixels. So although 1680 is greater than 1600, 1680 times by 1050 is less then 1600 times 1200.

There should be no need to use powerstrip or anything like that. Far as i know like i say above, modern monitors contain a list of supported resolutions onboard, and tell the videocard. Thats how the list of available resolutions ends up listed in windows. My card never showed 1680x1050 as a supported resolution until i pluged in the monitor

In short everything should be just fine. It all works for me, and this is connected to a laptop with a mobility radeon card, so any desktop card should have no problem
July 1, 2006 1:17:19 AM

It turns out I may need to do some tinkering after all ... the PC continues to boot with a black screen until the OS loads. After about 50 seconds or so of booting (remember I have RAID), I first see the mouse pointer, then Login screen. This wouldn't be so bad for most users because on the rare ocation one would need to view POST and BIOS, they could simply hook up a cheap LCD or CRT. But I'm often experimenting with OSs, and require pre-boot to view my RAID array boot status and to select boot drives.

Is this something Powerstrip can solve? Or is this kind of display simply not going to even constrain or stretch 4:3 ratio pre-boot screens to fit 16:10 ?

If not I suppose I could always use this as a secondary display and a cheap 14" LCD just for booting and crap :?
July 1, 2006 11:09:28 AM

mine does that to. I see nothing till windows loads. But since its connected to a laptop its not a problem since the laptop screen remains active during the post and bios phase, until windows fully loads and the laptop screen goes off and external one comes on. bit of a silly problem tho. I been meaning to try the monitor with analogue instead of dvi and see if that changes anything.
July 1, 2006 8:51:01 PM

... so back to the earlier discussion on DVI/VGA adapters ... Does anyone know if The (typically) Blue DVI Female To VGA Male Video Adapter would help me in usng my video card's DB-15 output to send the analog VGA signal to the analog portion of the DVI connector on the Cinema Display cable?

I think I'd only need to use this configuration for BIOS access, boot management, and RAID configuration (that's if it works at all). When I'm not changing anything in the system, I could enjoy the true DVI signal instead.
a b U Graphics card
July 2, 2006 8:07:52 PM

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... so back to the earlier discussion on DVI/VGA adapters ... Does anyone know if The (typically) Blue DVI Female To VGA Male Video Adapter would help me in usng my video card's DB-15 output to send the analog VGA signal to the analog portion of the DVI connector on the Cinema Display cable?


No, re-read my earlier statements, it doesn't help (there is no analgoue for the Cinema display it's Digital only).

And since I can post it at home, here's a view of my connectors which I spoke of before;




The blank screen to load screen is a somewhat known issue, but I can't remember how to fix it (or if it's possible), it's been discussed a few times in Rage3D's forums, but never been an issue for me, so didn't pay much attention. Best to check there, they've tackled it before.
!