DX-10??

[Lizardfuel72]

Any discussion on the Cards that will support this? Might want to hold off on the massively expensive upgrade for a bit.

 

[SciFiMan]

You can search around here and other forums, but there isn't a lot of specific details on them yet. Probably not until October or so as they get close to release. If you're looking to upgrade now or soon, i wouldn't put much money into a video card at this time. Nothing more than a X1600, 6800GS, or 7600GS. Better to just get by and save for a mid to high end DX10 card later.

 

[prozac26]

DX10 cards, or next-gen card, could come out in the Fall, at the earliest. I think they'll be released after Vista in the Spring of '07.

Current cards will run DX10 fine, but those cards won't use all of the features of DX10.

 

[tmac]

I'm building my system in fall - waiting on conroe - waiting on ATI's
R600 graphics card - waiting on ATI's RD600 motherboard

All is falling into place - If something gets delayed - I'll get a cheap
card in the meantime. I hate waiting - but now is not the time to
get impatient. Also, I'll have some good reading from real benches
when the chips hit the street.

 

[prozac26]

Then you might be waiting untill Spring for ATI's R600s due to Vista crap. Ah well, we'll all have to wait and see.

 

[chunkymonster]

Even if DX10 cards were release for retail today, it would still take months to years for games to actually use DX10 features...hell, DX9 was release in 2003 and it wasn't until last summer, after 2+/- years, that the majority of game requirements stated DX9...some reports have stated that Vista will be released with DX9 and DX10 will be release at a later date...let alone M$ working out any bugs/issues between DX10 and nVidia and ATI...

 

[Fursecul]

Yeah all the producers say ooooo: Vista ready,ready for what? the latest cards support DX9 but Vista will have DX10 so what are they talking about that is just comercial shit to sell the cards

 

[bluntside]

Can you name some of the features that the non dx10 cards cannot offer?? :twisted:

 

[prozac26]

Graphical features.

 

[tmac]

If that is the case - I'll get a decent video card in the meantime -

I was going to build a crossfire system - and to get 2 high end cards
now would be silly.

 

[spongebob]

Shader model 4

 

[elbert]

Can you name some of the features that the non dx10 cards cannot offer?? :twisted:

Yes, hardware supported shader model 4.0. While yes DX9 cards will support shader model 4.0 it will be a much slower emulation. The fact is all DX9 cards may only perform to a low level DX10 card due to emulations of DX10's new features.

 

[shawnpaul3]

If it was my choice, I would go ahead and get a 1900xt. It will work great for at least 2 more years, while we're waiting for DX10 to even get started. Plus, how much longer after that will games even begin using DX10?

 

[chunkymonster]

I was going to build a crossfire system - and to get 2 high end cards now would be silly.

Not really...that may depend more on your upgrade schedule, the price of the crossfire setup, and the time it'll take for games to use DX10 features...I wouldn't base my purchasing decisions now on what is going to be released 6-12 from now...IMO, it would be better to have a rig now that will run many, many games with everything turned on rather than forking out big ca$h for a brand-spanking new DX10 card with a limited catalog to choose from...

What's silly is paying big ca$h for a DX10 card only to run Vista...actually, that's not silly, that's just stoopid!

 

[elbert]

Then you might be waiting untill Spring for ATI's R600s due to Vista crap. Ah well, we'll all have to wait and see.

The low end R600 is to release early November and for the 65nm high performance R600's December.
http://techreport.com/ja.zz?comments=10217
http://www.cooltechzone.com/Special_Reports/Insider_Series/ATI_R600_Details_Revealed_200604102280/

Vista really has little to do with R600's release as ATI is planning it to take the DX9 crown. GPU makers are battling for the crown for to wait and release new faster designes would be the same as memory companys price fixing back in the late 1990's. Neither company would take the chance on lossing market share due to a illegal deal is not legally enforcable.
http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32713

 

[elbert]

If it was my choice, I would go ahead and get a 1900xt. It will work great for at least 2 more years, while we're waiting for DX10 to even get started. Plus, how much longer after that will games even begin using DX10?

ATI has already released tools kits to make programs DX10 compatable to R600 and Microsoft has tools in place as well. Crysis the new shooter by the makers of far cry, Crytec, has DX10 features and should be released by around December.
http://pc.ign.com/objects/694/694190.html

 

[sailer]

Any discussion on the Cards that will support this? Might want to hold off on the massively expensive upgrade for a bit.

You might be holding off for a long time. Microsoft keeps delaying Vista, keeps changing the Vista requirements, keeps playing games. The software companies will take time to ramp up their products, and will take more time working out the bugs and making patches, so that will delay the need for a specific DX10 card even longer.

I made my choice already and bought what I felt was the best card available now. I didn't want to wait on pipe dreams. Others will do as they feel best, no argument with them. That's what choice is all about.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Even if DX10 cards were release for retail today, it would still take months to years for games to actually use DX10 features...

Actually due tot he delays, there will likely be 3 working titles using DX10 (not minimum requirement, but exploiting the new features) at the launch of Vista. If their timeline is accurate (and what developer ever is? (HL2, D3, Oblivion anyone?), then there should be Halo2-PC, UT2K7, and Crysis in the spring of '07 (which would be at/near Vista's consumer launch).

hell, DX9 was release in 2003 and it wasn't until last summer, after 2+/- years, that the majority of game requirements stated DX9...

Actually it wasn't until march of this year that it became a requirement in a game (Oblivion), but we're talking about useable features, and that was a while back with SM2.0, heck DX9.0C/SM3.0 was first really implemented in FartCry, but it's still not a 'requirement' yet for any game..

some reports have stated that Vista will be released with DX9 and DX10 will be release at a later date...

That may not be the case anymore wih the way things are going, but then again supposedly they're already moving to DX10.1 developer's kit so maybe they'll wait 'til that's finished to produce the WGF2.0 or whatever it will be finalized as. Vista itself will be built around DX9.0L/WGF1.0+

let alone M$ working out any bugs/issues between DX10 and nVidia and ATI...

I doubt that'll matter, it's up to ATi and nV to make their stuff work with Vista more than the other way around. The biggest delay IMO, might be the integration of the DirectPhysics from the start, which they may delay DX10 to ensure it's bundled in that initial launch if there's still no killer app reason to launch it yet (ie Crysis and UT2K7 get delayed).

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Then you might be waiting untill Spring for ATI's R600s due to Vista crap. Ah well, we'll all have to wait and see.

The thing is both ATi and nV say their next gen cards will be the fastest DX9.0A-C card yet, so why bother waiting if you think you can sell them? Delaying just pushes back the development cycle, especially for nV. If nV ever plans on moving those hybrid G80s, this fall would be the latest to do so IMO, or they'll be bumping up against their future products, kinda in the same way the GTX-512 did, and we know how eager nV was to produce those after that, or ATi's X850Crossfires which were pretty much still-born.

I think if they wait until next fall the G80 will be in a tougher position. Also everyone is already holding their breath waiting for the G80/R600 so if they don't start selling by return to school or at least Xmas, then both ATi and nV are $crewed.

Personally I have a feelign that if ATi and nV don't act by summer's end that alot of it will depend on Intel's GMA965/3000 hitting the streets with their core duo2 extreme systems for laptops and likely for their new line in the fall (MaFans are making the mos noise about this for the fall MacBook revamps), and I would expect Merom to get them too (not that I want one [unless it performas better than an X1600 {which is highly doubtful}])).

I think that the R600/G80 will launch before Vista/DX10, and while they won't have the nice shiny demos to show why A>B, I think that will only matter for their mid-range will will have to compete against slashed X1800/1900 and GF7900/7600 prices.

 

[Grinch123456]

Can you name some of the features that the non dx10 cards cannot offer?? :twisted:

Yes, hardware supported shader model 4.0. While yes DX9 cards will support shader model 4.0 it will be a much slower emulation. The fact is all DX9 cards may only perform to a low level DX10 card due to emulations of DX10's new features.

Only ATI will offer SM 4.0 and a unified shader architecture. NVidia will offer only SM 3.0 with a shader architecture similar to what ATI uses right now.

 

[nilepez]

Even if DX10 cards were release for retail today, it would still take months to years for games to actually use DX10 features...hell, DX9 was release in 2003 and it wasn't until last summer, after 2+/- years, that the majority of game requirements stated DX9...some reports have stated that Vista will be released with DX9 and DX10 will be release at a later date...let alone M$ working out any bugs/issues between DX10 and nVidia and ATI...

The first directx game that I recall is Far Cry and it came out in early spring 2004, so probably withing a year of DX9's first release.

 

[nilepez]

Even if DX10 cards were release for retail today, it would still take months to years for games to actually use DX10 features...hell, DX9 was release in 2003 and it wasn't until last summer, after 2+/- years, that the majority of game requirements stated DX9...some reports have stated that Vista will be released with DX9 and DX10 will be release at a later date...let alone M$ working out any bugs/issues between DX10 and nVidia and ATI...

The first directx game that I recall is Far Cry and it came out in early spring 2004, so probably withing a year of DX9's first release.

I expect we'll see DX10 games either late 2007 or early 2008 (assuming Vista gets out the door by January.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Only ATI will offer SM 4.0 and a unified shader architecture.

That's true.

NVidia will offer only SM 3.0 with a shader architecture similar to what ATI uses right now.

That's not true. The G80 will have SM4.0 support, but not have a unified architecture. Think of it more like the R300 vs nV3x . Both supported DX9/SM2.0 just in different ways, and really the one with MORE features performed worse out of the two. So there's know way of knowing who will be top dog, but I think the R600 will have an advantage in areas where there's extremes like X2 (vertex only) or situatiosn where it heavy pixel no vertex. Where the load's balanced more like traditional games, you'll likely see the G80 win out because it will likely have more of both together (and may have more raw texture units if rumours are true).

I think we'll see some very interestin performance differences between the two, and I suspect the R600 will consume less power, but who knows, both are slated to have ALOT of transistors hybrid or unified.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Tomb Raider came out before FartCry, it was DX9/SM2.0 capable.

Also X2-The Threat, came out before as well, and that was VS2.0 capable.

 

[nilepez]

Tomb Raider came out before FartCry, it was DX9/SM2.0 capable.

Also X2-The Threat, came out before as well, and that was VS2.0 capable.

I stand corrected...my main point stands, however, that it's unlikely we'll wait 2 years for DX10 games.