Creating a Woodcrest Workstation, advice needed

[Logicsequence]

Well as the title says, i'm *hopefully* about to create a woodcrest workstation for myself. Assuming i get my finances in order. But i've never had a xeon based system before, or a dual core system, let alone a dual dual-core system. Nor have i ever used PCI-X for that matter. So i have a few questions.

First off, this is what i plan to get, feel free to comment or suggest replacements or enhancements.

Intel Xeon 5140 - $455
Intel Xeon 5140 - $455
SUPERMICRO X7DBE Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000P - $515
Kingston 2GB DDR2 FB-DIMM - $328
Kingston 2GB DDR2 FB-DIMM - $328
Western Digital Raptor 150GB (system) - $250
Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi PCI - $115
Total - $2446

The remainder of the components will be pulled from my current system:

ATi FireGL V7100 256Mb PCIe
Enermax Noistaker 500W PSU
Maxtor 250Gb SATA HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Sony DVD RW
HP DVD RW
Various other peripherals

CHANGES ON PAGE 2


Now, here come the questions:

MUST i use FB-DIMMs with the woodcrest and 5000P chipset? Or is that only if i'm going to use huge amounts of ram? Can i get away with regular old ECC DDR2 chips?

How exactly does PCI-X work? The mobo i selected doesn't have PCI slots, only PCI-X, so what does that mean for PCI cards? Can PCI cards be used in PCI-X slots? How will i get my Soundblaster X-Fi hooked up?

The board has 2 PCIe x8 slots, and obviously my video card is an x16 card. If i'm only using the one PCIe slot will my card be working at 50%? or will that one slot switch to x16?

Do i need a different PSU for a system with 2 CPUs?

Obviously i'll be upgrading to windows XP 64bit. Will there be issues with software?

Are there software issues when using a dual processor system? Or a dual core system?

Are there driver issues when using a dual processor system? Or a dual core system?

What all should i be aware of when upgrading to a dual dual-core system from a single single-core system for the first time?


Any general information and tips would be great too, thanks ahead of time for anyone who helps!



P.S.
The system will be used for a multitude of things, from Digital Art Creation, to 3D Digital Content Creation, to a kick @SS gaming rig, to just surfing. It's going to be my home computer, for work and play.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Okay, to answer your questions:

1. The Woodcrest can use either FB-DIMMs or regular unbuffered DDR2 modules.

2. PCI-X is a 64-bit-wide slot operating at 66, 100, or 133 Mhz that looks nothing like and is not compatible in the least with standard PCI 32-bit 33 MHz slots. You can't put the X-Fi in that board unfortunately, unless you can find a PCIe version to stick in the second PCIe x8 slot. I don't think Creative makes one though.

2. A GPU can't fully utilise the full 16 lines in a PCIe x16 slot anyway. Your GPU should work in the x8 slots fine.

3. You need an EPS12V PSU with an 8-pin aux. 12V connector versus the standard ATX12V PSUs with 4-pin aux. 12V connectors.

4. XP x64 has virtually no drivers and native 64-bit apps for it. You *will* have issus- however they may be really major or just a little PITA. If you want 64 bits, the only real game in town wears a tux...

5. You can't run XP Home on a dual-socket system as it is artificially lockef to use only one socket. However XP Pro will work just fine on a dual-socket dual-core machine.

6. Software does not usually care if it's being run on a computer with 1 processor or 8, unless it is aware of the additional cores and then it will be faster.

7. Your drivers depend only on the OS you are using and the specific motherboard, not on how many CPUs are present. You should find no issues here unless you're trying to run XP 64-bit, and then your board maker will have likely made XP x64 drivers so at least the board should run. But other peripherals likely won't.

I hope this helps.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Well as the title says, i'm *hopefully* about to create a woodcrest workstation for myself. Assuming i get my finances in order. But i've never had a xeon based system before, or a dual core system, let alone a dual dual-core system. Nor have i ever used PCI-X for that matter. So i have a few questions.

First off, this is what i plan to get, feel free to comment or suggest replacements or enhancements.

Intel Xeon 5140 - $455
Intel Xeon 5140 - $455
SUPERMICRO X7DBE Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000P - $515
Kingston 2GB DDR2 FB-DIMM - $328
Kingston 2GB DDR2 FB-DIMM - $328
Western Digital Raptor 150GB (system) - $250
Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi PCI - $115
Total - $2446

The remainder of the components will be pulled from my current system:

ATi FireGL V7100 256Mb PCIe
Enermax Noistaker 500W PSU
Maxtor 250Gb SATA HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Maxtor 250Gb IDE HDD
Sony DVD RW
HP DVD RW
Various other peripherals


Now, here come the questions:

MUST i use FB-DIMMs with the woodcrest and 5000P chipset? Or is that only if i'm going to use huge amounts of ram? Can i get away with regular old ECC DDR2 chips?

How exactly does PCI-X work? The mobo i selected doesn't have PCI slots, only PCI-X, so what does that mean for PCI cards? Can PCI cards be used in PCI-X slots? How will i get my Soundblaster X-Fi hooked up?

The board has 2 PCIe x8 slots, and obviously my video card is an x16 card. If i'm only using the one PCIe slot will my card be working at 50%? or will that one slot switch to x16?

Do i need a different PSU for a system with 2 CPUs?

Obviously i'll be upgrading to windows XP 64bit. Will there be issues with software?

Are there software issues when using a dual processor system? Or a dual core system?

Are there driver issues when using a dual processor system? Or a dual core system?

What all should i be aware of when upgrading to a dual dual-core system from a single single-core system for the first time?


Any general information and tips would be great too, thanks ahead of time for anyone who helps!



P.S.
The system will be used for a multitude of things, from Digital Art Creation, to 3D Digital Content Creation, to a kick @SS gaming rig, to just surfing. It's going to be my home computer, for work and play.

Basically, the PCI-X is a 64bit 66-133MHz PCi slot. This provides up to 533MB/s and is necessary for certain NICs, SCSI, etc.

Your specs are great. You will have a super content creation machine.

X64 is supported more int he professional sector so things like Real Player don't work. AutoCAD, MicroStation and the like SIMPLY FLY on X64.
X8 slots are for SLI. When using one card it runs at X16.


There are no issues inherent to dual core so you're covered.

 

[Totty]

Unfortunately Intel is trying to stop mobo makers from including OCing features in Woodcrest mobos.

A real pity as I wanted to buy two boxes right away ... as it is, I wont be making a move until OCable mobos appear :x

 

[FITCamaro]

I can see why considering Woodcrest chips aren't that expensive in the lower end and are probably even preferable to the Core 2 Duo since they use a 1333MHz FSB instead of a 1066MHz FSB. I saw the prices for them and immediately thought about my next PC being a Woodcrest powered box.

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

If you're going to use this as a gaming rig, look for a different card than the FireGL. Since that's not a gaming card, you'll get crap framerates because it's not made for that purpose. Get a 7950GX2 if you want to do both.

 

[Logicsequence]

If you're going to use this as a gaming rig, look for a different card than the FireGL. Since that's not a gaming card, you'll get crap framerates because it's not made for that purpose. Get a 7950GX2 if you want to do both.

I already use that card in my current PC, runs games fine. After all, it's a suped up X800 XTPE. Plus i need it for my Digital Content Creation.

 

[Logicsequence]

1. The Woodcrest can use either FB-DIMMs or regular unbuffered DDR2 modules.

Are we sure of this?

 

[Logicsequence]

Well is the easiest solution just to order a dell to the specs i want and swap out the video card, and add in my other hard drives etc... etc...?

 

[BaronMatrix]

Well is the easiest solution just to order a dell to the specs i want and swap out the video card, and add in my other hard drives etc... etc...?

if you go with Dell make sure you customize EVERY PART and pay for the best else you'll get crap.

 

[crow_smiling]

1. The Woodcrest can use either FB-DIMMs or regular unbuffered DDR2 modules.

Are we sure of this?AFAIK, the current chipsets that support Woodcrest use FB-DIMMS only. This doesn’t mean that a Woodcrest compatible chipset using other types of RAM won’t be released in the future. It would make sense to me to release a workstation chipset that supported DDR2, as the advantages of FB-DIMMs aren’t so necessary there.

Doesn’t the current Woodcrest chipset require quad memory sticks to get the full benefit of its dual FSBs! i.e. it can run two dual channel memory busses simultaneously. That’s probably good news as the smaller FB-DIMMs are cheaper I think.

 

[Artmic]

I was thinking of building a Woodcrest workstation also, but gave up on it, the money i would spend would be probably 20 percent more than a comparable Desktop with a Conroe CPU, as for running 2 Dual Cores, (That extra money i will use to purchase a new DX10 vid card, and probably a Quad core Conroe in time)

Hopefully i will be able to pop out the existing conroe for the Quad conroe.
The only thing that bothers me is the bus speed for Conroe, the woodcrest is a nice 1333,

Good luck in your build, let us know how it went and how stable the new workstation is for you.

 

[Logicsequence]

well i don't know if i'm going to go forward until i find a better motherboard. I'd like to find one with at least ONE PCI slot for an X-Fi sound card. And the expensive nature of FB-DIMMs are kind of putting me off... i found a mobo ASUS makes, the DSBF-D/SAS, that has just about everything i want, but it's more expensive of course, and i can't find a store online that has them at the moment.... For that matter, no online stores have woodcrests yet...

And ideally i'd want to wait for a chipset that doesn't REQUIRE FB-DIMMs... (we're sure the 5000 series absolutely requires them?). I have 2GB of DDR2 in my computer now, i'd love to combine that with some new chips (not FB) and get about 6GB of ram, but that's not possible if i can only use FB-DIMMs... i dunno...

Dell seems to have some interesting components, but obviously i can't just customize everything i want and buy one from them, that would be WAAAAAAY to expensive. My option there would be to either customize a dell to a point where i can get the parts i want, and A. pull the parts FROM the dell (bad idea, voids warrenty), or B. put my additional parts in the dell... But i'm not very fond of either idea to be honest.

My ideal situation would be to find a mobo that has (obviously) 2 771 slots, 2 PCIe x16 (x8) slots (for the point in time when i get 2 video cards), at least 1 PCI slot, preferably 2 or more, and has a chipset that can handle regular non buffered or ECC DDR2 ram chips, 2 or more SATA controllers, and at least 2 IDE controllers (most of my current 250GB hard drives are IDE, i'd like to at least keep 2 of them and still have my 2 DVD burners). Has anyone heard of plans for any mobo RESEMBLING this on the drawing board?

Any suggestions?

 

[crow_smiling]

Any suggestions?

I can only see two options:

Wait for a Woodcrest chipset that supports DDR2, which might not even happen at all.
Wait a month or so and buy an Opteron Socket F based system which does support DDR2, but probably only registered DDR2, so your current RAM won’t be any use here either.

There’s a trap that people fall into when they see how cheap Woodcrest is and that is they try to ignore the cost of the motherboards and FB-DIMMs and the limited features on the motherboards.
If you really want a DP system you’re gonna have to bite the bullet on at least some of these issues. Personally, I would wait until Socket F comes out and then look at the performance, pricing and the availability of motherboards suitable for your requirements for both platforms. It’s very likely that a decent workstation motherboard will get released at some point, with PCI support for your sound-card and hopefully O/Cing features.

I’d also be wary of buying a system built on a new platform on day 1. If it was me I’d consider buying an Opteron 265 system as an interim solution and then look at upgrading in 6 months or so after AMD release 65nm Socket F. By then both platforms will be 6 months old; let other people sort out the bugs, new motherboards & chipsets will be released and prices will come down, especially for FB-DIMMs hopefully.

I’m not trying to put you off Woodcrest as it does sound a good chip at a good price. But when building a workstation, you have to look at the big picture.

 

[crow_smiling]

For SLI, the current best solution for a DP board is the Nvidia Pro chipset, which is S940. I imagine that they’ll have a Socket F version prepared also, but no idea if they plan on supporting Woodcrest. Intel is in the Crossfire camp, so this may be unlikely.

 

[Logicsequence]

I’m not trying to put you off Woodcrest as it does sound a good chip at a good price. But when building a workstation, you have to look at the big picture.

Oy, no flaming. But i don't do AMD, just a personal preference.

 

[Logicsequence]

Didn't Intel just announce a slew of new Intel motherboards
for Conroe and Woodcrest? And, on the day Woodcrest
was officially announced, I seem to recall that 200+
systems builders were already assembling working systems.

Google Woodcrest!


Sincerely yours,
/s/ Paul Andrew Mitchell
Webmaster, Supreme Law Library
http://www.supremelaw.org/

i wouldn't call it a "slew"...

I need to create a Digital Content Creation Workstation / Gaming Super-rig / home computer here... This thing needs to fill a lot of shoes.

My configureation (in my signature) as it is right now, fulfills the following needs:

Digital Content Creation Ability: 65%
Gaming: 85%
Home PC: 100%

What i want this workstation to be is at least:

Digital Content Creation Ability: 90%
Gaming: 90%
Home PC: 100%

Obviously i'm counting on the move up from a single core pentium 4 to dual dual-core xeons will significantly boost my DCC factor, not to mention keep the edge on gaming...

Gah so complicated...

 

[mack_ave]

Just and idea, you may or may not have thought of this...if your going to drop that much on a comp why not make your OS drive a Raid 0 or 0+1 or something with those raptors? It seemed to me like the only real bottle neck...

 

[crow_smiling]

Oy, no flaming. But i don't do AMD, just a personal preference.

No problem. Check the roadmaps of Intel, nVidia and possibly even ATI to see if they even plan on releasing a chipset that supports dual GPUs with Woodcrest. You may be better off buying a high end Conroe and OC’ing the pants off of it. A very fast Conroe will still be a good DCC platform and an excellent gaming rig. You can use your current RAM and there’ll be loads of motherboards to choose from so you’ll be able to find one that suits your needs. Some software doesn’t scale so well or even at all above two cores, so a blazing Conroe would be the better solution in that situation. Take a look here at how impressive an over-clocked X6800 is in video encoding etc.
It’s worth a thought.

 

[Logicsequence]

has anyone out there seen any stores with woodcrest CPUs available yet??? I haven't found any. Newegg certainly doesn't have them, neither does pricewatch. all the google stores are "out of stock".

 

[BaronMatrix]

well i don't know if i'm going to go forward until i find a better motherboard. I'd like to find one with at least ONE PCI slot for an X-Fi sound card. And the expensive nature of FB-DIMMs are kind of putting me off... i found a mobo ASUS makes, the DSBF-D/SAS, that has just about everything i want, but it's more expensive of course, and i can't find a store online that has them at the moment.... For that matter, no online stores have woodcrests yet...

And ideally i'd want to wait for a chipset that doesn't REQUIRE FB-DIMMs... (we're sure the 5000 series absolutely requires them?). I have 2GB of DDR2 in my computer now, i'd love to combine that with some new chips (not FB) and get about 6GB of ram, but that's not possible if i can only use FB-DIMMs... i dunno...

Dell seems to have some interesting components, but obviously i can't just customize everything i want and buy one from them, that would be WAAAAAAY to expensive. My option there would be to either customize a dell to a point where i can get the parts i want, and A. pull the parts FROM the dell (bad idea, voids warrenty), or B. put my additional parts in the dell... But i'm not very fond of either idea to be honest.

My ideal situation would be to find a mobo that has (obviously) 2 771 slots, 2 PCIe x16 (x8) slots (for the point in time when i get 2 video cards), at least 1 PCI slot, preferably 2 or more, and has a chipset that can handle regular non buffered or ECC DDR2 ram chips, 2 or more SATA controllers, and at least 2 IDE controllers (most of my current 250GB hard drives are IDE, i'd like to at least keep 2 of them and still have my 2 DVD burners). Has anyone heard of plans for any mobo RESEMBLING this on the drawing board?

Any suggestions?

There are very few two socket boards with PCI. They put PCI X in them. I know MAD has some boards with PCIe.

Another possiblility is to get the USB based sound blaster. I haven't been searching for Intel mobos but check out Monarch Computer.

 

[BaronMatrix]

has anyone out there seen any stores with woodcrest CPUs available yet??? I haven't found any. Newegg certainly doesn't have them, neither does pricewatch. all the google stores are "out of stock".

Last word was that ONLY systems will be available for awhile. It'll be at least a month before retail gets them.

 

[Logicsequence]

3. You need an EPS12V PSU with an 8-pin aux. 12V connector versus the standard ATX12V PSUs with 4-pin aux. 12V connectors.

What's the difference b/w an ATX12V with an 8-pin aux. 12V connector and a EPS12V PSU with an 8-pin aux. 12V connector?

 

[Logicsequence]

Compared to the upcoming Xeon Tulsa, Woodcrest's clockspeeds are relatively low. What is the reasoning behind this? Is Tulsa not using the Core2 architecture? Or is Tulsa simply going to be faster?

Right now i'm running a single-core pentium 4 at 1066MHz FSB and 3.73GHz. Is a dual-core xeon at 1333MHz FSB and only 2.33GHz going to be faster/more efficient than my current CPU? I'm worried about that clock speed being so low. i realize it's dual core, so it's really like having 2 Xeons, combined with the fact that there will be 2 chips, so 4 cores, but i've heard many applications cannot take advantage of dual cpu's, or dual cores for that matter. any thruth to that?

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

Well you're not alone, I'm building one also. It looks really good overall but I do have a few suggestions.

1. For the mobo have you looked at anything from IWill? They have a bunch of really good mobos that you should look into for socket 771. They all have 1 PCI slot.
www.iwill.net

2. Yes you will need FB-DIMMS in a quad-channel config. That's if you plan on using both CPUs.

3. For the PCI-X it IS compatible with PCI but I wouldn't recommend it since if the speed of the card and the speed of the bus are mismatched what it will do is drop the speed down to the lowest factor between those two which could be 1MHz!

Other than that good luck with your new rig!