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LaserJet 4M wavy edges, is there a remedy?

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Anonymous
April 17, 2005 5:50:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Wavy (or bent) edges on the printouts; I have two LJ4M which both
suffer from this problem. I have tried papers from a few different
manufactures, but no luck.
I went to google to read up on this but most people seem to have
different opinions about why this is happening and what to do about
it.
My theory is that is it something mechanical, in the way printer
transport the paper through the system. To me, the edges appear more
bent than wavy and it appear regardless of from where I choose to
print: multipurpose tray, paper cassette or lower cassette. So what
ever it might be, it seems to happen during or after printing, or
perhaps on the way out.

Anybody?

Any help would be most appreciated!
Mike


e mail: sbremove46@bigremovefoot.com

remove: remove
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 5:50:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:50:55 +0200, mike anderson wrote:

> My theory is that is it something mechanical, in the way printer
> transport the paper through the system. To me, the edges appear more
> bent than wavy and it appear regardless of from where I choose to
> print: multipurpose tray, paper cassette or lower cassette. So what
> ever it might be, it seems to happen during or after printing, or
> perhaps on the way out.

When you say "more bent than wavy" do you mean a vertical line curves
slightly or is straight but at an angle?

It's just not vertical, it could be a problem with the registration roller
assembly.

Or are you referring to horizontal lines?

--
Dave
I don't know what I'm doing. That' why I'm here.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 4:44:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth DaveG ...

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:50:55 +0200, mike anderson wrote:
>
>> My theory is that is it something mechanical, in the way printer
>> transport the paper through the system. To me, the edges appear more
>> bent than wavy and it appear regardless of from where I choose to
>> print: multipurpose tray, paper cassette or lower cassette. So what
>> ever it might be, it seems to happen during or after printing, or
>> perhaps on the way out.
>
>When you say "more bent than wavy" do you mean a vertical line curves
>slightly or is straight but at an angle?
>
>It's just not vertical, it could be a problem with the registration roller
>assembly.
>
>Or are you referring to horizontal lines?

This is physically in the paper, it has nothing to do with the print.

Wavy paper margins in lengthwise direction. From the vertical edges of
the paper, half an inch in towards the center of the paper.

With bent I mean; this appear in and around the middle of the paper,
in 2-3 inch increments (lengthwise) or so. It looks as if the edges is
bent one way and the next increment is bent in the opposite direction,
thereby creating a wavy look.

Thanks
Mike
Related resources
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 4:44:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:44:20 UTC, mike anderson
<look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:

> This is physically in the paper, it has nothing to do with the print.
>
> Wavy paper margins in lengthwise direction. From the vertical edges of
> the paper, half an inch in towards the center of the paper.
>
> With bent I mean; this appear in and around the middle of the paper,
> in 2-3 inch increments (lengthwise) or so. It looks as if the edges is
> bent one way and the next increment is bent in the opposite direction,
> thereby creating a wavy look.

The exact increment may be a clue to the part of the paper transport
that is causing this...so measurement would be helpful.

One obvious thing to try; have you changed the toner cartridge?
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 6:32:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:44:20 +0200, mike anderson wrote:

> This is physically in the paper, it has nothing to do with the print.

Ah, gotcha. It's clear now :-)

>
> Wavy paper margins in lengthwise direction. From the vertical edges of
> the paper, half an inch in towards the center of the paper.
>
> With bent I mean; this appear in and around the middle of the paper,
> in 2-3 inch increments (lengthwise) or so. It looks as if the edges is
> bent one way and the next increment is bent in the opposite direction,
> thereby creating a wavy look.

I wonder if the fuser is running hot?

Have you tried stopping the printer part way through the transport to see
where it might be first occurring? Open the cover while printing. This
is easiest using the manual feed, tray 1, so you can stop it at different
parts of the transport.

--
Dave
I don't know what I'm doing. That' why I'm here.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 9:45:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth Bob Eager ...

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:44:20 UTC, mike anderson
><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
snip ..
..
>The exact increment may be a clue to the part of the paper transport
>that is causing this...so measurement would be helpful.
>
>One obvious thing to try; have you changed the toner cartridge?

Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
problem.

The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).

Thanks
mike
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 9:45:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:45:05 UTC, mike anderson
<look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:

> Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
> edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
> switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
> This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
> or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
> problem.

Tried different paper? Perhaps it's drying out...

> The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
> is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).

Doesn't match anything obvious. Might be worth swapping fuser units
between the two printers, simply because they are a likely candidate and
it's only held in with two screws.

If it isn't that...it'll be in the big paper transport mechanism and
that requires some dismantling...

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 10:00:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth DaveG ...

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:44:20 +0200, mike anderson wrote:
>
>> This is physically in the paper, it has nothing to do with the print.
>
>Ah, gotcha. It's clear now :-)
>
>>
>> Wavy paper margins in lengthwise direction. From the vertical edges of
>> the paper, half an inch in towards the center of the paper.
>>
>> With bent I mean; this appear in and around the middle of the paper,
>> in 2-3 inch increments (lengthwise) or so. It looks as if the edges is
>> bent one way and the next increment is bent in the opposite direction,
>> thereby creating a wavy look.
>
>I wonder if the fuser is running hot?
>
>Have you tried stopping the printer part way through the transport to see
>where it might be first occurring? Open the cover while printing. This
>is easiest using the manual feed, tray 1, so you can stop it at different
>parts of the transport.

This was a good idea, but no luck. I will check on the second printer
a bit later tonight just to confirm this.

This should indicate that it is happening before it reach the fuser
....

Thanks
mike
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 10:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:00:23 +0200, in comp.periphs.printers mike anderson
<look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:

>>Have you tried stopping the printer part way through the transport to see
>>where it might be first occurring? Open the cover while printing. This
>>is easiest using the manual feed, tray 1, so you can stop it at different
>>parts of the transport.
>
>This was a good idea, but no luck. I will check on the second printer
>a bit later tonight just to confirm this.
>
>This should indicate that it is happening before it reach the fuser

Does it occur if you use the manual paper feed?
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
http://EdwardGRuf.com
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 10:00:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:12:30 UTC, Ed Ruf <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:00:23 +0200, in comp.periphs.printers mike anderson
> <look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>
> >>Have you tried stopping the printer part way through the transport to see
> >>where it might be first occurring? Open the cover while printing. This
> >>is easiest using the manual feed, tray 1, so you can stop it at different
> >>parts of the transport.
> >
> >This was a good idea, but no luck. I will check on the second printer
> >a bit later tonight just to confirm this.
> >
> >This should indicate that it is happening before it reach the fuser
>
> Does it occur if you use the manual paper feed?

He said it did:

"To me, the edges appear more
bent than wavy and it appear regardless of from where I choose to
print: multipurpose tray, paper cassette or lower cassette. "

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 2:26:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth Bob Eager ...

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:45:05 UTC, mike anderson
><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>
>> Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
>> edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
>> switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
>> This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
>> or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
>> problem.
>
>Tried different paper? Perhaps it's drying out...
>
>> The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
>> is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).
>
>Doesn't match anything obvious. Might be worth swapping fuser units
>between the two printers, simply because they are a likely candidate and
>it's only held in with two screws.
>
>If it isn't that...it'll be in the big paper transport mechanism and
>that requires some dismantling...

Do you think it would be worth buying a maintenance kit, if so, which
one ... the are many variants at eBay? I have the service manual so
some dismantling should not be impossible.

Thanks
mike
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 2:26:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:26:48 UTC, mike anderson
<look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:

> Quoth Bob Eager ...
>
> >On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:45:05 UTC, mike anderson
> ><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
> >> edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
> >> switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
> >> This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
> >> or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
> >> problem.
> >
> >Tried different paper? Perhaps it's drying out...
> >
> >> The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
> >> is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).
> >
> >Doesn't match anything obvious. Might be worth swapping fuser units
> >between the two printers, simply because they are a likely candidate and
> >it's only held in with two screws.
> >
> >If it isn't that...it'll be in the big paper transport mechanism and
> >that requires some dismantling...
>
> Do you think it would be worth buying a maintenance kit, if so, which
> one ... the are many variants at eBay? I have the service manual so
> some dismantling should not be impossible.

That's a bit like saying 'my car makes a noise, should I get a new
steering wheel?'.

Maintenance kits contain pickup rollers and transfer rollers. I doubt if
it's any of them.

I would eliminate the fuser unit first, by swapping. Then let us know
what happens.
--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 5:30:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth Bob Eager ...

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:26:48 UTC, mike anderson
><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>
>> Quoth Bob Eager ...
>>
>> >On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:45:05 UTC, mike anderson
>> ><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
>> >> edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
>> >> switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
>> >> This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
>> >> or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
>> >> problem.
>> >
>> >Tried different paper? Perhaps it's drying out...
>> >
>> >> The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
>> >> is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).
>> >
>> >Doesn't match anything obvious. Might be worth swapping fuser units
>> >between the two printers, simply because they are a likely candidate and
>> >it's only held in with two screws.
>> >
>> >If it isn't that...it'll be in the big paper transport mechanism and
>> >that requires some dismantling...
>>
>> Do you think it would be worth buying a maintenance kit, if so, which
>> one ... the are many variants at eBay? I have the service manual so
>> some dismantling should not be impossible.
>
>That's a bit like saying 'my car makes a noise, should I get a new
>steering wheel?'.
>
>Maintenance kits contain pickup rollers and transfer rollers. I doubt if
>it's any of them.
>
>I would eliminate the fuser unit first, by swapping. Then let us know
>what happens.

It made perhaps a small change but only to the bad one, maybe its
printouts are a little less wavy now. The better one is about the same
as it was.

I am not sure of the value but ... an observation; first, if I put one
printout from each printer together, the waves pretty much correspond,
it should be the same fault in both of them.
Second, I am using paper from different manufactures while testing,
and I am now beginning to notice differences in wave patterns on the
left and right margins of the paper. The right (lengthwise) margin of
the papers have shorter and more waves than the right margin, which
have longer and fewer waves.

One of the paper is brand x and the other one is a Xerox laser paper.

Thank you kindly for all your help,
mike
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 5:30:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:30:56 UTC, mike anderson
<look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:

> It made perhaps a small change but only to the bad one, maybe its
> printouts are a little less wavy now. The better one is about the same
> as it was.

Hmmmm...not very conclusive. I guess the fuser units could have the same
fault, but...

Is there anything in common about the history of the two printers? For
example, mine was used exclusively to print sandwich labels! (not that
this did it any harm...)

What's left? In the paper transport chain...

1) Pickup rollers. It fails on all paper sources, so unlikely.
2) Toner cartridge; eliminated.
3) Fuser rollers; almost certainly eliminated.

So...

4) Exit rollers. These are the ones at the top, facing forwards where
the paper comes out. I guess if you stop the printer before the paper
emerges you can eliminate that. Also the lower exit rollers, inslde the
back - likewise.

5) What's left is the main transport mechanism. This needs a bit of
dismantling to access. Email me if you want more details. If this unit
is loose (screws missing or loose) it might account for it. Otherwise,
swapping these between machines might eliminate/point them.Takes 10/20
minutes to remove/replace on one machine.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 5:53:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth mike anderson ...

>Quoth Bob Eager ...
>
>>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:26:48 UTC, mike anderson
>><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoth Bob Eager ...
>>>
>>> >On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:45:05 UTC, mike anderson
>>> ><look_at_the_end_of_my@post.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Toner cartridges; one of the printers has a bigger issue with wavy
>>> >> edges, it produce more, and bigger 'waves', than the other. I have
>>> >> switched cartridges between the two but it did not change anything.
>>> >> This printer still produced more wavy edges than the second one. Right
>>> >> or wrong, this led me to rule out the cartridges as the source of the
>>> >> problem.
>>> >
>>> >Tried different paper? Perhaps it's drying out...
>>> >
>>> >> The distance is interesting though, the distance between two 'peaks'
>>> >> is 4.5 centimeter (1.8 inch).
>>> >
>>> >Doesn't match anything obvious. Might be worth swapping fuser units
>>> >between the two printers, simply because they are a likely candidate and
>>> >it's only held in with two screws.
>>> >
>>> >If it isn't that...it'll be in the big paper transport mechanism and
>>> >that requires some dismantling...
>>>
>>> Do you think it would be worth buying a maintenance kit, if so, which
>>> one ... the are many variants at eBay? I have the service manual so
>>> some dismantling should not be impossible.
>>
>>That's a bit like saying 'my car makes a noise, should I get a new
>>steering wheel?'.
>>
>>Maintenance kits contain pickup rollers and transfer rollers. I doubt if
>>it's any of them.
>>
>>I would eliminate the fuser unit first, by swapping. Then let us know
>>what happens.
>
>It made perhaps a small change but only to the bad one, maybe its
>printouts are a little less wavy now. The better one is about the same
>as it was.
>
>I am not sure of the value but ... an observation; first, if I put one
>printout from each printer together, the waves pretty much correspond,
>it should be the same fault in both of them.
> Second, I am using paper from different manufactures while testing,
>and I am now beginning to notice differences in wave patterns on the
>left and right margins of the paper. The right (lengthwise) margin of
>the papers have shorter and more waves than the right margin, which
>have longer and fewer waves.
>
>One of the paper is brand x and the other one is a Xerox laser paper.
>
>Thank you kindly for all your help,
>mike

An elucidation:

>Second, I am using paper from different manufactures while testing,
>and I am now beginning to notice differences in wave patterns on the
>left and right margins of the paper.

the difference in wave patters at the right and left margins, occur
regardless of the paper manufactures - it occur in both of the papers.
April 18, 2005 10:17:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You would probably be better off posting this problem to
fixyourownprinter.com Difference is there are real techs providing
support there rather than end users tossing out ideas. Anyone who would
even suggest a toner cartridge as a possible cause obviously has no
clue how printers operate.
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 11:53:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:17:29 UTC, Dani@spamtothehand.com wrote:

>
> You would probably be better off posting this problem to
> fixyourownprinter.com Difference is there are real techs providing
> support there rather than end users tossing out ideas. Anyone who would
> even suggest a toner cartridge as a possible cause obviously has no
> clue how printers operate.

By the way, I can't see any indication that you have ever provided any
useful technical information in this group. So why rubbish everyone
else?

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth Dani@spamtothehand.com ...

>
>You would probably be better off posting this problem to
>fixyourownprinter.com Difference is there are real techs providing
>support there rather than end users tossing out ideas. Anyone who would
>even suggest a toner cartridge as a possible cause obviously has no
>clue how printers operate.


Thank you ... I guess :) 

I went to the website and I found an interesting comment in one of the
forums. A lady who mention that she has got rid of a wavy paper
problem by using a repair kit:
<http://www.fixyourownprinter.com/forums/laser/855#1&gt;.

I have contacted the sales office asking them to tell me which kit it
is.

Thanks again for the tip
mike
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 10:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Quoth Bob Eager ...

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:17:29 UTC, Dani@spamtothehand.com wrote:
>
>>
>> You would probably be better off posting this problem to
>> fixyourownprinter.com Difference is there are real techs providing
>> support there rather than end users tossing out ideas. Anyone who would
>> even suggest a toner cartridge as a possible cause obviously has no
>> clue how printers operate.
>
>By the way, I can't see any indication that you have ever provided any
>useful technical information in this group. So why rubbish everyone
>else?

I totally agree with you Bob, there is no need to be rude.

Bob here has helped me a lot with these printers a few years back, and
it is a fab NG for sure.

Great tip though, it might help me to solve the issue.
mike
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 2:26:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 01:32:19 UTC, Marek Williams <abc@example.com>
wrote:

> As I recall, the Laserjet 4 family could send a sheet out the back as
> well as the top tray. If my memory is accurate, send a few sheets out
> the back and see what happens.

No, 'fraid not on the 4, 4+, 4M or 4M+. Three different paper sources
but it always comes out of the top! There is a rear cover but opening it
stops the printer.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
April 24, 2005 7:38:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Bob, you seem to know a little about printers. You're probably a HP
trained "parts changer". You can get the paper to come out the back by
opening the rear door and defeating the door interlock. I checked out
Mike's post over at fixyouownprinter and he seemed to be getting a lot
more helpful advice over there than he was getting on this ng.
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 2:42:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:38:36 UTC, Dani@spamtothehand.com wrote:

> Bob, you seem to know a little about printers. You're probably a HP
> trained "parts changer". You can get the paper to come out the back by
> opening the rear door and defeating the door interlock. I checked out
> Mike's post over at fixyouownprinter and he seemed to be getting a lot
> more helpful advice over there than he was getting on this ng.

Actually, we've been communicating privately.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
April 30, 2005 11:45:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

So you're a toner cartridge expert as well, Bob. Having been inside
thousands of toner cartridges, I CAN speak from experience. It has
exactly 6 moving parts. The drum, charge transfer roller, developer
roller and the 3 gears driving the 3 rollers. I wouldn't exactly call
that a large number of replaceable parts. Actually, the only
replaceable parts are the wiper blade, the drum, CTR and the developer
roller. Now let's get down to the cartridge causing these "waves".
Since you claim to be the "printer guru", explain to me how a flat
sheet of paper passing between the cold drum and CTR can get waves
imparted to it. After you get done with that, then you can explain to
me how the waves get through the heat and pressure of the fuser without
getting flattened and wrinkled. Please do enlighten me as of course I
have no idea how the LJ4 operates. I'd also be interested in your
explanation of how the fuser imparts vertical waves in the paper. Oh,
while we're at it, please explain the function of the CTR. Parts
changers blame a large variety of problems on it as they do toner
cartridges. If you are really a tech as you claim, you'd know what it
does in the printer.
Here's the website of another person who fancies himself a tech. He
gives advice on 4 forums that I know of. He'd probably fool a lot of
people on this ng as well. http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/woods/
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 12:03:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 1 May 2005 02:45:26 UTC, Dani@spamtothehand.com wrote:

> So you're a toner cartridge expert as well, Bob. Having been inside
> thousands of toner cartridges

Oh, God. Still on this. Been in hibernation?

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
October 3, 2011 3:33:47 PM

Ok - I understand that this post is very old, but as I just read it - it may be helpful to others to post a response.

Wavy edges on paper result from moisture problems not mechanical problems, or toner problems. It is a relative humidity issue.

Wavy edges are caused by a difference in humidity/temperature (the temp affects relative humidity) between the paper and the room where it is printed. The heat of the fuser can also play a role.

The answer to this problem is lengthy and requires a scientist to answer.

-km
!