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Help. which cards to run in SLI on Nforce 4 Socket 754.

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a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 9:34:57 AM

I have two 7600 GT's 580/1500mhz. running on my current system.

AMD 4800X2
MSI NEO4 Platinum SLI
EVGA 7600 GT 580/1500 x 2 SLI Zalman GPU heatsink/fans
Crucial PC4000 500mhz. 2 gigs. 512 x 4 2.5-4-4-8
WD 74 WD250 SATA
Artic Freezer Heatsink/fan
Asus DVD-ROM
Pioneer DVD-RW 111-D
Pinnacle Studio 9 PCI
Aspire Beast 680w PSU 12v 22/24 amp.


Before the current SLI setup, I had a single EVGA 7800 GT KO OC 470/1100 20 pipes on this system. The boost in video performance was phenominal when I went to SLI with the two EVGA 7600 GT's at 580/1500 x 2 with 256 DDR3 x 2. The system ran hot so I had to add two Zalman GPU heatsink/fans on the vid cards.

So with this success with SLI, I wan't to take one of my four AMD64 3400 socket 754 systems (yes I have 4! up and running) and update it to SLI. Currently I have 4 3400's running with the following video card set-ups. These all perform great, but not as good as they will with SLI :

1. AMD64 3400 2.2 CH socket 754 ASUS 5950 Ultra 575/800
2. AMD64 3400 2.4 NC socket 754 Sapphire X800 GTO 400/800
3. AMD64 3400 2.4 NC socket 754 EVGA 6600 GT 500/1100 DDR3
4. AMD64 3400 2.4 NC socket 754 3400 Sapphire 9600XT 500/700

I am running the single EVGA 7800 GT KO OC I own with a Pentium D 805 non SLI.

Here's my question:

I bought the following board and plan to tear down the AMD64 2.2 Clawhammer and use the parts (with two new PCI-E x 16 video cards in SLI) and build it on this Nforce 4 SLI socket 754 board.

http://www.epox.com.tw/eng/products_content.php?ps=375

I'll add 2 gigs of Corsair Pro Series PC3200 RAM and a 300 gig Maxtor 16 mb. HD. My son will use it to play WoW and all his games. May catch a little gray porn in SLI before I give it to him.


I can not find another Evga 7800 GT KO Part Number: 256-P2-N516-AX and just use the 7800 GT I have with it and make another SLI system. I looked everywhere and found one used. The guy was asking $330. I offered him $150 and a link to that porn site.

Anyway...Any suggestions. If I can't find another EVGA 7800 GT I was thinking about just buying two of these and getting the show on the road.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

I guess I could use my two EVGA 7600's in the new 754 SLI rig and buy two new 7900GT's for my 4800X2?
June 30, 2006 4:48:04 PM

Instant bottleneck.

Your better off just buying another 6600GT (provided the one you have now is PCI-E) and using that for the clawhammer. 754 based systems arent meant to be fashioned with high end SLI....so even the dual 7600's are a bit much.

Quick question. What resolutions do you or your son run at?
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 5:26:54 PM

>>Your better off just buying another 6600GT (provided the one you have now is PCI-E) and using that for the clawhammer. 754 based systems arent meant to be fashioned with high end SLI....so even the dual 7600's are a bit much. <<

The SLI 754 MB has the exact same Nforce 4 chip any 939 socket chip has. The chip I'll be using is a AMD 64 Clawhammer 2.2 with 800 mhz FSB (or 2200 FSB as I see it) and 1024 L2 cache. probably a better chi than many socket 939's out there. In games like World of Warcraft it's Video Card and the RAM that make the difference, I think. I built a system for a kid the other night using his $50 Celeron D 2.4. Runs fine on WoW. It's not the CPU that runs great, it's the 9600XT and 2 x 256 mg. of Corsair XmS Ram in dual channel that run the eye candy oj the game. I was hoping to get some pretty nice performance out of a socket 754 SLI setup.

The 6600 GT I have is on an Nforce 3 MB AGP. My sone is using the AMD64 socket A 3700 at 2.4, 1024 L2 cache, Sapphire X800 GTO and 1.5 gig of old Corsair XMS LL Pro RAM. Most of the time He uses 1280 x 1024 res. I put that X800GTO in there and he says it's the best system He has ever had.

Got the EPOX socket 754 SLI MB this morning. Now I need the video cards for it and I can build it.
Related resources
June 30, 2006 6:19:38 PM

I very much realize that. But WoW isnt that intensive on a GPU at all, it is more along the lines of RAM though. My 9500 plays the game fine @ 1024x768.


I'm just saying, get two higher end SLI GPU's, and your CPU will become a bottleneck...thats all. The reason why I stated 754 is because of 1) the lack of overclocking friendliness (kinda like NF1, wasnt that great) and 2) the bus width is half of 939, and 754 doesnt even support Dual Channel.

One more thing, NF3 and NF4 arent the same chipsets at all. Nvidia didnt remark the NF4 SLI just for 754...

So basically that 3700+ is the best your getting. Hense why I mentioned the bottleneck. 939 and AM2 don't suffer from as many problems due to the larger bandwith and more CPU's choices leading all the way to DC setups.

Its your call, I'm just saying @ those resolutions, your Multi-GPU ideas are a joke, and I"m not trying to be an ass....but especially for WoW, its not needed. More RAM is about the best you can do for that game....
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 6:35:19 PM

>>Its your call, I'm just saying @ those resolutions, your Multi-GPU ideas are a joke, and I"m not trying to be an ass....but especially for WoW, its not needed. More RAM is about the best you can do for that game....<<

The SLI MB was 85.99. I have everything else escept the 2 PCI E video cards. My system should look like this when I'm through:

AMD64 3400 2.2 (OC 2.6 1024 L2 cache)
EPOX Nforce 4 SLI MB (dual video cards up for grabs)
Corsair PC32000 Pro series 2gigs
Maxtor 300 SATA 1.5 16 mg. transfer
Sony DVD-ROM
Pioneer DVD-RW
Antec 550w 2.0 SLI PSU

Sheesh...how do I accumilate all this crap! You'd think I have better things to do.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 6:37:40 PM

>>So basically that 3700+ is the best your getting.<<

I have the 3700 which is the best chp 754 runs. I wish the new board ran two of them. I have 4 AMD64 3400 chips. I don't kniow what to do with them is my problem.
June 30, 2006 7:20:33 PM

If you're dead set on running SLI (and spending money unecessarily) with that Epox board, then I would give it your 7600GTs and get 2 7900GTs for yourself, but like Raven_87 said its a bit of overkill especially for WOW. I'm not too certain it will be a bottleneck if you're OC'g that CH to 2.6, but it will be overkill.

You'd save a lot of money just buying one 7600GT and using it with the CH but that doesn't justify the cost of the S754 SLI board.

BTW, since you're overclocking I would recommend dropping the RAM to 1GB (plenty for WOW) and use one really good stick of 1GB RAM instead of 2 1GB modules. 1 GB is still plenty for XP and I've read that using 1 stick achieves better results for overclocking than 2 on 754 boards. And since you don't need to worry about dual channel, you don't need 2 sticks anyway. Unless you want to spend a lot of money, single 2GB modules have a tendancy to have less OC'g abilities as well as higher timings so I cannot really recommend going that route either. One good 1GB module is probably the "sweet spot".

If you do go with 2 sticks, then I think 2 really, really good 512MB would work fine too.

Your 4 754s would probably sell nicely on eBay.
June 30, 2006 7:25:26 PM

More BS responses you got here. I have owned the Epox 754 SLI board since just after it came out. Sure, in some games the CPU will be the bottleneck, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth it. Dual Channel memory is only needed when you're out of bandwidth in the first place, you're not. Increasing the CPU speed increases IMC frequency which also increases memory bandwidth. The only 2.4ghz (read 12 multiplier) chips with 1mb L2 cache available are 130nm chips which do not OC well. The 754 venice 3200 (multi of 11, 512mb L2 cache 90nm) will beat it in benchmarks everytime due to the fact that it is stable at 2750mhz. The mobile athlon 4000 is also 90nm and has a multi of 13, runs stable between 3000 & 3250. In other words, my system Outperforms my buddies FX-55 (130nm) system everyday.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 7:41:29 PM

>>If you do go with 2 sticks, then I think 2 really, really good 512MB would work fine too.

Your 4 754s would probably sell nicely on eBay.<<

I appreciate your imput. I've read a lot of positive testimonials about the EPOX 754 SLI board. It will be interesting to see how that 2.2 Clawhammer performs in SLI. I saw this yesterday. I have 2 gigs of Corsair XMS P3200 Pro Series SPID 3-3-3-8 available. That will max out the RAM on that board. I'm not sure about OC, but I think 2 gigs will do nicely with WoW. I installed 2 x 256 in dual channel Corsair XMS PC3200 the other night on an ABIT 865 board I had in the garage. I put his 2.4 Celeron D on the board with a 9600XT 500/700 mhz. The kid was ecstatic with his new system. After reading this article I told my son last night to tell his riend He should let me install the 1 gig matched pair of Corsair XMX PC3200 in that system I built. Anyway...thanks. I don't kmnow about Ebay, but I would like to sell some of my stuff. At he moment I have all 4 of my AMD64 2.4 socket 754's up and running used everyday at 2 offies and home. They perform really well.


2 GB

Still there are situations where more than 1 GB is what you want.

If you are a professional user, you might need more than 1 GB for really heavy applications.
If you intend to do heavy multitasking, especially if you have more than one CPU or CPU core. Running RAM intensive games such as World of Warcraft, downloading files via high speed FTP or encrypted protocols, Bittorrent or any P2P program; decompressing large archives and playing large size video files in a window or on second monitor all at the same time can max out your system memory pretty fast - if your CPU can handle it.


http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/13/how_much_ram_do_...
June 30, 2006 7:43:31 PM

Quote:
In games like World of Warcraft it's Video Card and the RAM that make the difference, I think.



World of Warcraft is pretty easy on the videocard.

Videocard will make the difference in heavy graphic games like FEAR and Oblivion. WoW has relatively simple graphics, it'll run faster with a great internet pipe like any MMO.

If WoW is your target game, SLI is a waste. SLI is useful for eye candy and uber-high resolutions with high AA & AF - when the game requires it.

But I'd be surprised if a single 7900 GT or X1800 XT couldn't run WoW on very high resolution with high graphical quality. One of the least demanding games out there, visually... but it's going to lag like every MMO out there, if the server is stressed...
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 7:48:26 PM

Quote:
More BS responses you got here. I have owned the Epox 754 SLI board since just after it came out. Sure, in some games the CPU will be the bottleneck, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth it. Dual Channel memory is only needed when you're out of bandwidth in the first place, you're not. Increasing the CPU speed increases IMC frequency which also increases memory bandwidth. The only 2.4ghz (read 12 multiplier) chips with 1mb L2 cache available are 130nm chips which do not OC well. The 754 venice 3200 (multi of 11, 512mb L2 cache 90nm) will beat it in benchmarks everytime due to the fact that it is stable at 2750mhz. The mobile athlon 4000 is also 90nm and has a multi of 13, runs stable between 3000 & 3250. In other words, my system Outperforms my buddies FX-55 (130nm) system everyday.


Do you suggest instead of using the AMD64 2.2 Clawhammer with 1024 L2 cache, I use one of the AMD64 2.4 Newcastles with a 512 L2 cache. Will this work better in SLI if I OC or just in general? I also have one AMD64 3700 2.4 with 1024 L2 cache. That system is top notch and I'll probably leave it with the ASUS Deluxe AGP MB and the X800 GTO.

One point of my building a socket 754 SLI system was the fact that it's the Video and RAM performance in WoW, not the CPU, that matters most. I thought I would take some of my old stuff and make great gaming system for the cost of an $85 MB and two PCIE 16 vid cards.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 7:56:22 PM

>>Videocard will make the difference in heavy graphic games like FEAR and Oblivion. WoW has relatively simple graphics, it'll run faster with a great internet pipe like any MMO.<<

Appreciate the heads up. I don't know about these things. I am hoping an SLI setup on that EPOX socket 754 board wil 'turbocharge' my son's games. When I was his age I liked anything turbocharged. As it is his friends are dumbfounded by the speed of his AMD 3700 running the 754 X800 GTO AGP. His one friend was playing Wow one frame at a time until I stuck a MB, RAM and vid card in his case. Te other friend stays up for three days at a time on the computer. he thinks He's going to win a prize! I try and take it all in stride.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 7:59:02 PM

I'd like to have that 1900xtx your riding.
June 30, 2006 8:01:59 PM

I've your running stock speeds, keep the 3700 in there. I don't recommend the Newcastle at all. The Venice is the revised 90nm version of what was the Newcastle (130nm). Although WoW is not too picky about graphics cards in general, more pipelines do help out in areas with lots of objects, IE players, IE Oggrimar, Iron Forge, etc. Not as much as a better connection helps though.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 8:08:18 PM

Quote:
I've your running stock speeds, keep the 3700 in there. I don't recommend the Newcastle at all. The Venice is the revised 90nm version of what was the Newcastle (130nm). Although WoW is not too picky about graphics cards in general, more pipelines do help out in areas with lots of objects, IE players, IE Oggrimar, Iron Forge, etc. Not as much as a better connection helps though.


I have a working knowledge of computers. Not a technical background at all. I have 3 DSL lines at three locations . The ls time I ran a check it was 485/1300 or 1400 I think. I called up SBC and told them for all the money I was paying they should turn my speed up. All the way. I have noticed an improvement since then.
a b U Graphics card
June 30, 2006 8:13:11 PM

>>more pipelines do help out in areas with lots of objects, IE players, IE Oggrimar, Iron Forge, etc. Not as much as a better connection helps though.<<

My son's screen is completely full of gauges. He's talking to an army of people at the same time. Things are jumping in every direction while he playing WoW. I asked and he said each one of those things was a real person. Must a been a hundred of 'em. he's monitoring all of them. Then he kills them. hahahaha! So much for the PHD's view on the social/psycholigical health of a gamer. I hope my kid grows up and solves the world's problems better than the PHD's have to this point.
July 1, 2006 2:05:22 AM

@Shab

So your saying your going to guarantee a high stable overclock? -sure

And more pixelpipes usually equal more preformance. but it sounds as if your saying the pipelines directly contribute to faster rendering of character models....

" Run out of bandwith in the first place" --WTH?? Increasing CPU speed means the internal clock too will begin syphoning CPU cycles away, so that doesnt necessarily mean you'll be increasing your memory bandwith expontentially when comparing single channel 64bit wide to dual channel 128bit.

I will agree about the E6 venice 754 though, they do overclock consistently high, but its not a guarantee on preformance at all.

I'm not saying it isnt worth it, but SLI for any system to play a game such as WoW at the max of 1280x1024 ISNT worth it. Invest in a single GPU or play some FPS' that will allow you too enjoy your multi-GPU setup without frame rate loss.

In all areas considering gaming, the CPU will be the bottleneck in a higher end SLI setup....you can't reasonably argue this fact. Epox makes a great board, that I know first hand.

I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but its true the 754 CPU's he has mentioned, unless given high frequencies (even then) would still slightly bottleneck the system.

@Badge

You can get 512 sticks of some nice TCCD or TCCC, just gotta look. Unless you can find BH5 that really enjoys voltage increases, which can happen, but isnt common.

Point in general. Make up your own mind. I'm tell you SLI for WoW is a waste of cash @ those resolutions. If you feel the need to run Multi-GPU setups for the simple fact of knowing you have one, then to an extent I can understand, but in this case it really wont make a difference.

Like I said, your money, your choice, I'm just telling it like it is.
a b U Graphics card
July 1, 2006 4:03:59 AM

>>Point in general. Make up your own mind. I'm tell you SLI for WoW is a waste of cash @ those resolutions. If you feel the need to run Multi-GPU setups for the simple fact of knowing you have one, then to an extent I can understand, but in this case it really wont make a difference.<<

One reason I am interested with the video aspect of computers is because of equiptment and software we plan on acquiring next year. Here is the software. Dolphin. If you click on icons for Illustrated diagrams, Enhance or Image Alignment you can see how important high resolution, high quality imaging is in our work.

http://dolphinimaging.com/new_site/imaging/CEPH.html

I will have this software installed in three locations each location with seperate computer to run it. If SLI does a better job of viewing digital skull x-ray I will use it. I have one source to help me with the technicl aspects of this investment when we take the step into digital xray. This technology is expensive. Maybe SLI isn't necessary here either. I will have an SLI system to try it out and see.
July 1, 2006 9:22:58 PM

The K8 isn't starved for bandwidth. SLI is a waste for most if not all cases under 1600x1200. Doesn't mean it isn't fun to tinker with. I personally guarantee than ANY 90nm AMD cpu that is factory clocked at 2.0ghz or less will OC 25%. Been through a lot of these "mid-range" systems and still haven't found one that won't. Why do you think the 3000 & 3200 or being phased out? Dual Channel Memory is a small boost in performance on AMD platforms because they are not bandwidth limited, it's going to change a bit with quad core and higher frequencies, but we're not there yet. Intel systems can use all the extra bandwidth they can get.
July 2, 2006 5:34:17 PM

Wrong. Run a 939 machine without Dual channel and see what preformance hit you take. Granted not anywhere as bad as intel, AMD machines prefer low latencies before anything else. I think you have 939 and socket A confused though. 462 didnt require DC and it only made a 5% preformance gain max. 939 see's nearly triple that coupled with the right memory and matching sticks.


And there's only two CPU's 939 that are clocked less than or equal to 2.0GHZ and thats the 3000+ and 3200+ respectively. The Venice 3200+ I owned very much took high clock increases. The only problem with the 3000+ is the low multiplier, so I'm sure there's cases where I can find many people dont achieve 25% overclocks.

The 3000 and 3200 are being phased out becuase its the end of their product life cycle...thats about it. 754 will outlast 939 and it seems most of AM2 as well.

However I'm in complete agreement, SLI is a waste if your playing @ low resolutions, regardless of the game.
July 2, 2006 6:28:43 PM

My AGP 6800GT in my other system can play WoW on the maximum pretty well, so a 7900GT and X1800XT will be more than enough.
July 2, 2006 6:33:21 PM

My 9700 pro(s) play WoW 1024x768 max view distance details etc and i still net 30fps consitently. So even a 7xxx or x1xxx series would be overkill so to speak.
July 3, 2006 12:54:23 PM

In a VERY select few places you can get 15% performance gains from dual channel memory. Doesn't happen very often. Processor/IMC speed is MORE important. I was not talking specifically about socket 939 cpu's, I was including 754 and 939 90nm CPU's. Take even your cheapest Sempron, and you'll get a 25% OC out of it. I'm not saying that having dual channel is worthless, just not worth the money of changing your motherboard/cpu and/or buying new ram. I too am wondering just how long AM2 will last. People seem to THINK it will support K8L, I have my doubts, though. Why is it official that socket F supports quad core, but it is not official if AM2 will?
July 4, 2006 12:37:54 AM

Socket 754 doesnt utilize DC, so you can't see any preformance gain from it bud.... :lol: 

939, in many cases will see a preformance increase, but yes, 15% is the very select but highest. Its always nice to know your max. On average its 7-10% though.

Your cheapest Sempron or Celly will overclock easily beyond 25% becuase of the lack of cache.

As for AM2: There done shipping as of 2Q 07'.......so if thats any indicator of why 1207(F) will support quad core and AM2 will not is your assumption.
July 4, 2006 1:15:52 AM

LOL; I thought you said that you'd catch a little gay pr0n in your first post. But yeah; forget about multi-GPUs with s754 and low resolutions. By the way, why on earth do you have four 3400+ systems?
July 4, 2006 1:36:21 AM

ohhh wow..enough said
a b U Graphics card
July 4, 2006 4:40:38 AM

Quote:
LOL; I thought you said that you'd catch a little gay pr0n in your first post. But yeah; forget about multi-GPUs with s754 and low resolutions. By the way, why on earth do you have four 3400+ systems?


My CPU temp just dropped to -119c. Damn that was a powerful Antec 120mm case fan I just put in here! I'll get back t you when I'm stabalized. Oh yeah, the gray porn thing was funny. 8D
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