Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part of an
exchange programme for the summer.

Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a decent one with
not too much lag? Or is there a better method than this, ie: is it
cheaper to register with one of those calling card companies in the UK
and call using their number? This'd be great if I could use a UK mobile
phone to call her and not pay through the roof?

Thanks for your help!

Mark.
371 answers Last reply
More about advice calling mobile phone
  1. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Does your girl friend have broadband in the US? Do you have a landline
    in the UK? Do you have broadband.

    Calling the UK is really cheap from the US with a calling card. I use
    onesuite.com, it is two something cents a minute. In the other
    direction, look at call1899.com. Half a p a minute. They also, have
    a VOIP program. I
    Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
  2. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Mark wrote:
    > Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part
    > of an exchange programme for the summer.
    >
    > Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply
    > involve her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then
    > me calling her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a
    > decent one with not too much lag? Or is there a better method than
    > this, ie: is it cheaper to register with one of those calling card
    > companies in the UK and call using their number? This'd be great
    > if I could use a UK mobile phone to call her and not pay through
    > the roof?
    > Thanks for your help!
    >
    > Mark.

    Will there be broadband access where she'll be going..? If so she could
    take a VoIP ATA and you could both use something like Sipgate
    (www.sipgate.co.uk) which would mean totally free calls. Of course you'd
    have to buy the ATA's but alternatively you could use a softphone such as
    X-Lite if PC's are available.

    If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
    can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
    Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
    Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.

    Hope this helps,

    Ivor
  3. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:47:26 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

    >If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
    >can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
    >Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
    >Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.

    Just don't forget that she'll be paying part of the freight as US
    mobile system is charged for both incoming and outgoing calls. There
    is no penalty however for calling a mobile number. The rate to call
    is the same as a fixed line.

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  4. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Stuart Friedman wrote:

    > Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    > offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    > effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    > nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    > US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.

    Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
    US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

    Thanks.
    Mark.
  5. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:58:46 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

    >Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
    >her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
    >her via a voice over ip service?

    using 18866 or the like could be cheaper, depending on rates offerred
    by the VoIP provider for calls out to US numbers.

    Prepay is far less common in th eUSA and mobiles have standard area
    code numbers.

    Phil
    --
    spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
    Come on down !
  6. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    >>Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
    >>her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
    >>her via a voice over ip service?
    >
    >
    > using 18866 or the like could be cheaper, depending on rates offerred
    > by the VoIP provider for calls out to US numbers.
    >
    > Prepay is far less common in th eUSA and mobiles have standard area
    > code numbers.

    Thanks for all your advice so far guys, everyone that replied to my
    questions.

    I do have broadband, though she won't have internet access when she's
    over there I don't think.

    I like the idea of something like the pre-dial service, that seems
    pretty cheap, and I could call their access number using the free
    landline minutes I get with my '3' mobile contract here in the UK.

    You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
    available anywhere at all? She doesn't have a triband phone... She'll
    be working in or around the ocean city area in maryland... can she pick
    up a prepay mobile there do you think?

    Cheers.
  7. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

    >You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
    >available anywhere at all? She doesn't have a triband phone... She'll
    >be working in or around the ocean city area in maryland... can she pick
    >up a prepay mobile there do you think?

    That's nonsense that prepaid are not common in the US. Most every
    operator has some sort of prepaid. T-Mobile, cingular, 7-11, Virgin
    Mobile, Locus Mobile, Beyond Wireless, CallPlus and others. The only
    GSM prepaid in the "traditioal" sense is T-Mobile, cingular.

    You can pick up a prepaid package from most any of the ones mentioned
    above. To get a prepaid SIM you're likely to get a better deal by
    going to eBay than you are going to a traditional store. With the
    non-GSM providers you'll likely have to buy a phone from them for
    their service unless you can find a used phone that was on their
    service previously. This is also true with 7-11 though it is a GSM
    MVNO you cannot buy just the SIM from them. It's definitely not as
    convenient as it is in Europe.

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  8. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls, some
    off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.

    Stu

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
    > Stuart Friedman wrote:
    >
    >> Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    >> offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    >> effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    >> nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    >> US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
    >
    > Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
    > mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    > /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
    >
    > Thanks.
    > Mark.
  9. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site about
    having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but doesn't say
    incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out about this?


    Stuart Friedman wrote:
    > All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls, some
    > off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.
    >
    > Stu
    >
    > "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    > news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
    >
    >>Stuart Friedman wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    >>>offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    >>>effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    >>>nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    >>>US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
    >>
    >>Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
    >>mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    >>/receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
    >>
    >>Thanks.
    >>Mark.
    >
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Mark wrote:
    \> Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
    > US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    > /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

    In the U.S., the user of a mobile phone always pays airtime whether
    calling or receiving a call. For people on post-pay, they generally have
    a fairly large bucket of included peak-time minutes per month, and many
    such plans include unlimited free off-peak and weekend airtime. Also, it
    is very common for all calls to other users of the same provider to be
    free at all times. These free times do not apply to pre-pay users.
    Furthermore, since the mobile phone user pays for incoming airtime,
    there is no surcharge for the caller to call a mobile phone. Mobile
    phone numbers in the U.S. cannot be identified by the number, and in
    fact, a number can be moved between a landline and mobile provider.
  11. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    I cannot point you to the specific provision on the website, but I can tell
    you that in the U.S. mobile numbers are on the same area codes as landlines,
    that calls to mobiles are not surcharged, and that we normally pay for
    incoming calls on our mobile plans. Even on contract plans, the exceptions
    are few and far between. We have free mobile to mobile calls on many
    contract plans (and on a small number of prepaid plans), we have free nights
    and weekends, but incoming calls are come out of our bucket of minutes.

    Whether the U.S. system or the European system of caller pays is a better
    system has been debated extensively on various groups before. I go both
    ways on this point and have no definitive answer.


    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:jv9ke.11800$WQ3.9119@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
    > That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site about
    > having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but doesn't say
    > incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out about this?
    >
    >
    > Stuart Friedman wrote:
    >> All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls,
    >> some off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.
    >>
    >> Stu
    >>
    >> "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    >> news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
    >>
    >>>Stuart Friedman wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    >>>>offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    >>>>effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    >>>>nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    >>>>US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
    >>>
    >>>Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
    >>>mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    >>>/receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks.
    >>>Mark.
    >>
    >>
  12. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Thus spaketh Mark:
    > That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
    > about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
    > doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
    > about this?
    >
    In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive your
    call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some networks may
    allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to be free. This
    also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile as it does a USA
    landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never took off here in
    Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying for incoming calls on
    some of the websites as in the USA it is common knowledge you have to pay.
  13. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:

    > In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive your
    > call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some networks may
    > allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to be free. This
    > also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile as it does a USA
    > landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never took off here in
    > Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying for incoming calls on
    > some of the websites as in the USA it is common knowledge you have to pay.

    I see. Hmm. Okay then, well, leading up to my final questions :).. Can
    anyone recommend what network the cheapest Pay-as-you go mobile she
    could pick up would be, that would charge the least amount to receive an
    incoming call from Britain? Just some pointers would be cool, I know so
    little about US mobile companies that I just need somewhere to start.
    Coverage would have to be good in the Ocean City area of Maryland.

    Thanks again!!
  14. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
    the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
    or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
    Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
    mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
    interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
    (https://www.mycricket.com/).


    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:RC9ke.11539$X86.271@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
    > {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
    >
    >> In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive
    >> your call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some
    >> networks may allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to
    >> be free. This also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile
    >> as it does a USA landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never
    >> took off here in Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying
    >> for incoming calls on some of the websites as in the USA it is common
    >> knowledge you have to pay.
    >
    > I see. Hmm. Okay then, well, leading up to my final questions :).. Can
    > anyone recommend what network the cheapest Pay-as-you go mobile she could
    > pick up would be, that would charge the least amount to receive an
    > incoming call from Britain? Just some pointers would be cool, I know so
    > little about US mobile companies that I just need somewhere to start.
    > Coverage would have to be good in the Ocean City area of Maryland.
    >
    > Thanks again!!
  15. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Stuart Friedman wrote:
    > Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
    > the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
    > or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
    > Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
    > mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
    > interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
    > (https://www.mycricket.com/).

    Thanks...

    Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
    calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
    Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...

    Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
    text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
    since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
    incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

    Thanks for everyone's help :-)

    mark.
  16. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Mon, 23 May 2005 01:11:05 GMT, "Stuart Friedman" <stu@nospam.na>
    wrote:

    >Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
    >the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
    >or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
    >Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
    >mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
    >interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
    >(https://www.mycricket.com/).

    Cheapest is Beyond Wireless.

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  17. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:
    > Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
    > calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
    > Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...

    If you will be talking a fair bit, then she should get a post-paid plan that
    includes a fair-sized pail of minutes.

    > Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
    > text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
    > since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
    > incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

    Anything that doesn't involve mobile phones will be a lot cheaper (pretty
    close to free if you do it right).

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
  18. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Mon, 23 May 2005 01:09:56 -0500, mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz)
    wrote:

    >If you will be talking a fair bit, then she should get a post-paid plan that
    >includes a fair-sized pail of minutes.

    If she doesn't have US credit it's unlikely she can get a postpaid
    monthly plan unless she ponies up several hundered dollars deposit (if
    then even.)

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  19. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Mark wrote:
    > That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
    > about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
    > doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
    > about this?

    Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to go
    mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a *caller* have
    to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?

    It's not normally a problem as most US calling plans have more inclusive
    minutes than you know what to do with, but for PAYG you have to watch out.
    Also note that calls are usually billed by the minute not the second, so a
    1 minute 5 second call costs you 2 minutes.

    BTW please note that top posting is frowned upon in this group, thanks.

    Ivor
  20. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

    >You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
    >available anywhere at all?

    yes they are available but watch out for things like no roaming to
    other networks, no roaming outside the home city or State etc. They
    aren't common like in the UK, by far the majority are on contract
    phones (paying for incoming calls is a factor).

    GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
    so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
    prepay options (Virgin Mobile using Sprint is digital but not GSM so
    texting won't work).

    http://www.virginmobileusa.com/
    http://www.t-mobile.com/

    Phil
    --
    spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
    Come on down !
  21. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    > GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
    > so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
    > prepay options

    See ?....the merrycans are not stupid.........they don't throw out the baby
    with the bathwater.....our analogue TV is next...new technology squandering
    the worlds resources.....
  22. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:Oeake.15118$sE4.1888@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
    > Thanks...
    >
    > Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
    > calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
    > Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...
    >
    > Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
    > text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
    > since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
    > incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

    If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a lot
    more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile from
    a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.

    That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
    incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost of
    calling them is very high.

    --
    Andy
  23. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:a_8ke.14505$hn5.10099@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

    > Thanks for all your advice so far guys, everyone that replied to my
    > questions.

    My 2p worth

    Orange PAYG works in usa - you could text her cheaply and she could receive
    for nowt.
    If she could get access to a land line, you could call her cheaply with 1899
    from your landline, or quite cheaply from an Orange mobile with 18866.

    Don't know about t'other mobile networks sorry!


    --

    J B
  24. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    J B wrote:
    >
    > Orange PAYG works in usa - you could text her cheaply and she could receive
    > for nowt.
    >
    That's quite recent - I discovered it by accident. I had just installed my
    Orange SIM, to check some phone numbers (I was in the US at the time) and
    within seconds, a text message from a cousin in the UK arrived!

    If I had to rely on the Orange website, though, I'd still think PAYG Orange
    was unavailable in the US.
  25. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    > In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive
    your
    > call

    They pay for minutes used. For in-bound it's just minutes consumed. For
    outbound it's minutes plus any long-distance that might be involved. Calls
    to/from phones on the same provider are often free (this varies from one
    carrier to another). Free as in not consuming any minutes.
  26. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Andy Pandy wrote:

    > If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a lot
    > more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile from
    > a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
    >
    > That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
    > incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost of
    > calling them is very high.

    Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
    massively cheap rates to call the UK?

    Mark.
  27. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Yup, the cheapest rate I've got to a UK mobile is $0.15 a minute.

    Stu

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:axjke.1569$RG2.1556@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
    > Andy Pandy wrote:
    >
    >> If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of
    >> a lot
    >> more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3"
    >> mobile from
    >> a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
    >>
    >> That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying
    >> for
    >> incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the
    >> cost of
    >> calling them is very high.
    >
    > Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
    > massively cheap rates to call the UK?
    >
    > Mark.
  28. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:axjke.1569$RG2.1556@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
    > > If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a
    lot
    > > more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile
    from
    > > a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
    > >
    > > That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
    > > incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost
    of
    > > calling them is very high.
    >
    > Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
    > massively cheap rates to call the UK?

    Yes. They will have much higher rates for calling UK mobiles than for calling UK
    landlines. They would lose money on calls to mobiles otherwise, since your UK
    mobile operator charges them high termination fees.

    It's the same calling from the UK to countries where it is free to receive
    mobile calls (eg France). The cost of calling French mobiles is a hell of a lot
    more than the cost of calling French landlines (on 1899 it is 15 times the
    cost!). Calling US mobiles is the same price as calling US landlines because of
    the US system where mobile users pay to receive.

    All mobile operators have high termination fees - the difference between the US
    and UK system is who pays it. In the UK the caller always pays, in the US the
    mobile user pays.

    Forget mobiles - use landlines wherever possible and you and your girlfriend can
    gas very cheaply, or even free.

    0.5p per min on 1899: http://www.call1899.co.uk/index2.php

    or free using a VOIP service like Skype, if you both have broadband access:
    http://www.skype.com

    --
    Andy
  29. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Mark wrote:
    > Stuart Friedman wrote:
    >
    >> Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
    >> offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
    >> effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
    >> nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
    >> US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
    >
    >
    > Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
    > US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
    > /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

    If someone anywhere (even in the USA standing right next to you using a
    normal house phone in a US house) calls a US cellphone, then the
    recipient pays for those minutes. US mobiles are on normal dialling
    codes so cost no more to call than any other local number. The extra
    cost is picked up by the recipient.
  30. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    > Mark wrote:
    >> That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
    >> about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
    >> doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
    >> about this?
    >
    > Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to
    > go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
    > *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
    >
    > It's not normally a problem as most US calling plans have more
    > inclusive minutes than you know what to do with, but for PAYG you
    > have to watch out. Also note that calls are usually billed by the
    > minute not the second, so a 1 minute 5 second call costs you 2
    > minutes.
    > BTW please note that top posting is frowned upon in this group,
    > thanks.
    > Ivor

    The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a mobile or not.

    Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming calls.
  31. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:_MqdncOrZ_hBcwzfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
    > The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a mobile or not.

    Yes, but the mobile networks use termination charges to subsidise the prices
    they charge their users. On a "caller pays" system, it should cost the same to
    call a mobile from a landline as to call a landline from a mobile - but it is
    generally much cheaper to call a landline from a mobile.

    > Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming calls.

    No? Ever used your phone abroad?

    --
    Andy
  32. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:_MqdncOrZ_hBcwzfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
    >> The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a
    >> mobile or not.
    >
    > Yes, but the mobile networks use termination charges to subsidise the
    > prices they charge their users. On a "caller pays" system, it should
    > cost the same to call a mobile from a landline as to call a landline
    > from a mobile - but it is generally much cheaper to call a landline
    > from a mobile.
    >
    >> Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
    >> calls.
    >
    > No? Ever used your phone abroad?

    Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
    area too.
  33. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
    news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...

    > Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to go
    > mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a *caller* have
    > to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?

    Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
    have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
    should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
    not to have a phone ?

    Richard [in PE12]
  34. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    news:oo1391dhhiel29pq554hfiloa019cthf6o@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:
    >
    > >You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
    > >available anywhere at all?
    >
    > yes they are available but watch out for things like no roaming to
    > other networks, no roaming outside the home city or State etc.

    Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
    their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

    Richard [in PE12]
  35. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1h92919rjjpqsrc6q9546n7qsndpdbppbm@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:47:26 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >>If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
    >>can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
    >>Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
    >>Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.
    >
    > Just don't forget that she'll be paying part of the freight as US
    > mobile system is charged for both incoming and outgoing calls. There
    > is no penalty however for calling a mobile number. The rate to call
    > is the same as a fixed line.
    >
    And there is no mobile-specific number (like 07). They are all geographical
    numbers relating to the area the sim originates, indistinguishable from
    landlines. The amount US mobile users pay to receive calls is fixed,
    regardless of where they originate. It varies between 15 (8p) and 35 (20p)
    cents a minute, depending on how much credit you get on your sim card or
    when you top-up. Calling UK is around $1.50 a min (82p).

    Alec
  36. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Jet Morgan wrote:
    > "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
    >
    >> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
    >> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
    >> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
    >
    > Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
    > have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
    > should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
    > not to have a phone ?

    That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>

    As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for the
    money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a problem.
    My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes and never use
    them all, even with incoming calls.

    Ivor
  37. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:Uygke.10872$RJ6.3544@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
    > > GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
    > > so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
    > > prepay options
    >
    > See ?....the merrycans are not stupid.........they don't throw out the baby
    > with the bathwater.....our analogue TV is next...new technology squandering
    > the worlds resources.....
    >
    Is that why they are fast dumping Analogue AMPs phones on 850MHz
    for 850MHz GSM?

    Giving them dualband 850 and 1900MHz GSM, and with quad band
    GSM phones, world-wide roaming.

    I take it Freeview BBC3 and 4, and ITV2 and 3 are a mystery to you?

    Steve Terry
  38. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    > Jet Morgan wrote:
    >> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
    >> news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >>> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
    >>> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
    >>> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
    >>
    >> Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
    >> have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
    >> should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
    >> not to have a phone ?
    >
    > That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
    >
    > As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for
    > the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a
    > problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes
    > and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
    >
    > Ivor

    What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not want to
    have to pay a monthly rental charge?
  39. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:

    > Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    >
    >>Jet Morgan wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
    >>>news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
    >>>>to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
    >>>>*caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
    >>>
    >>>Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
    >>>have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
    >>>should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
    >>>not to have a phone ?
    >>
    >>That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
    >>
    >>As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for
    >>the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a
    >>problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes
    >>and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
    >>
    >>Ivor
    >
    >
    > What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not want to
    > have to pay a monthly rental charge?
    >
    >

    If the phone is working, 911 is required to be working, free.

    There are groups that collect old phones (partially to keep them out of
    the landfills) and give the working ones to women at risk.

    http://www.recycleforlondon.com/media_centre/mobile_phone.cfm

    and similar in the US.

    http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7269.html
  40. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    >Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
    >their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

    If you have a postpaid plan, which is what's considered normal in the
    US, GSM handsets roam just fine. I've used mine all over the US as
    well in Canada and Argentina. Cingular tells me that if I put the SIM
    in my 900/1800 phone it'll work in Europe, but their roaming rates are
    so high there's no point. Most prepaid plans are from resellers who
    make their own deals with the underlying carriers, and some arrange
    for roaming and some don't.

    That said, I agree with everyone else who says that if your goal is to
    talk with someone who's in Maryland, you should forget about mobile
    phones. Find out if the place she's staying has a phone and if so,
    just call her on it using one of the cheap UK calling services. If
    not, should should get a prepaid US calling card that charges 2
    cents/min to call the UK and call you from a pay phone. Google for
    "calling cards" and you'll find zillions of them, most that you can
    buy over the net and are delivered virtually, just an access phone
    number and a PIN.
  41. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "John R. Levine" wrote:
    >
    > If you have a postpaid plan, which is what's considered normal in the
    > US, GSM handsets roam just fine. I've used mine all over the US as
    > well in Canada and Argentina. Cingular tells me that if I put the SIM
    > in my 900/1800 phone it'll work in Europe, but their roaming rates are
    > so high there's no point.
    >
    Last month, my usual UK SP (Orange) suffered a temporary outage, and I
    switched to my Cingular/ATT SIM card - it worked just fine. It's useful as
    an emergency backup, but as you say, far too expensive.
  42. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Mon, 23 May 2005 18:54:18 +0100, "Jet Morgan"
    <jm@paran---andr---.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

    >Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
    >their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

    Of course they can. It's generally called roaming when you're using
    another network to complete your calls. These days many plans include
    roaming on other networks so that's not even an issue.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  43. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Thus spaketh Rick Merrill:
    > {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
    >
    >> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
    >>
    >>> Jet Morgan wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
    >>>> news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
    >>>>> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
    >>>>> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
    >>>>
    >>>> Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
    >>>> have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
    >>>> should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
    >>>> not to have a phone ?
    >>>
    >>> That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
    >>>
    >>> As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes
    >>> for the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely
    >>> causes a problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for
    >>> 2000 minutes and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
    >>>
    >>> Ivor
    >>
    >>
    >> What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not
    >> want to have to pay a monthly rental charge?
    >>
    >>
    >
    > If the phone is working, 911 is required to be working, free.
    >
    > There are groups that collect old phones (partially to keep them out
    > of the landfills) and give the working ones to women at risk.
    >
    > http://www.recycleforlondon.com/media_centre/mobile_phone.cfm
    >
    > and similar in the US.
    >
    > http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7269.html

    Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,
    and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,
    as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
    incoming call is an emergency or not, and to whether to answer the call and
    then end up getting charged for a useless call.

    No thank you very much.
  44. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:39:40 +0100, "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}"
    <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

    >Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,
    >and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,
    >as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
    >incoming call is an emergency or not, and to whether to answer the call and
    >then end up getting charged for a useless call.

    People in Europe are going to argue with people in North America til
    the cows come home, but the fact remains that the North Americans are
    *not* going to switch to a caller pays mobile system. That's it.
    Get used to it. It's been tried and it failed in North America. If
    you want to argue that caller pays is the greatest fine. Just don't
    expect us here in North America to agree with you. Arguments are
    really a *WASTE OF TIME!*

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  45. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
    news:qg7ke.18602$Pi3.9562@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
    > Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part of an
    > exchange programme for the summer.
    >
    > Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
    > her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
    > her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a decent one with
    > not too much lag? Or is there a better method than this, ie: is it
    > cheaper to register with one of those calling card companies in the UK
    > and call using their number? This'd be great if I could use a UK mobile
    > phone to call her and not pay through the roof?

    The cheapest way is for her to call your landline from a landline in the
    U.S., using a calling card. Rates to the U.K. are very cheap, around 2 cents
    per minute. To call a UK mobile phone is more, around 15-17 cents per
    minute. Long calls to a mobile phone in the U.S. are going to cost you a
    lot, since incoming calls are not free.

    In terms of which prepaid phone to get, it depends on where she is going to
    be, how much she is going to talk on it, and at what time. The best choice
    is probably Beyond Wireless, which is as low as 10 cents per minute, has
    excellent coverage, and will use any old Nokia or Motorola TDMA phone that
    was previously used on AT&T Wireless TDMA (they will also sell you a phone).
    7-11 convenience stores sell a GSM phone and charge 20 cents per minute, but
    GSM coverage in the U.S. isn't so great.

    Verizon InPulse is normally not a great plan, since they have a $1 fee for
    every day you use your phone. But the per minute cost is only 10¢, and they
    offer free night calling, 9:01 pm - 5:59 am, local time (but not free
    weekend calling). So this may actually work out for you, given the time
    difference. None of the other prepaid service offer free off-peak.

    See http://prepaiduswireless.com for comparisons on prepaid wireless.
  46. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:s7KdnRKG-LfUlQ_fRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
    > Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
    > >> Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
    > >> calls.
    > >
    > > No? Ever used your phone abroad?
    >
    > Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
    > area too.

    So presumably you've paid for incoming calls. Are you crazy?

    --
    Andy
  47. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote in message
    news:d6ttkj$5ac$1@xuxa.iecc.com...
    > Most prepaid plans are from resellers who
    > make their own deals with the underlying carriers, and some arrange
    > for roaming and some don't.

    Ironically, Cingular and T-Mobile, who actually own networks, do not allow
    roaming on pre-paid. But resellers of GSM prepaid all allow roaming, at high
    per minute rates.

    GSM is not the best choice for U.S. prepaid. The best choice is TDMA/AMPS,
    the second best choice is CDMA/AMPS. This holds true even though you may
    need to buy a phone.

    See http://prepaiduswireless.com


    > That said, I agree with everyone else who says that if your goal is to
    > talk with someone who's in Maryland, you should forget about mobile
    > phones. Find out if the place she's staying has a phone and if so,
    > just call her on it using one of the cheap UK calling services.

    If she gets one of the prepaid TDMA plans, such as from Beyond Wireless, he
    can send her a free text message indicating the number where she should call
    him. There is no minimum, and no activation fee on their plan; she could get
    by for the whole summer without actually buying any time. She just needs to
    find an old AT&T TDMA phone, but these are a dime a dozen now, on
    craigslist.org.
  48. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
    ....
    > Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,

    In the US the phone will "work" for 911 until the battery fails.

    > and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,

    If one has no plan, one has no number, and therefor there are no
    incoming calls at all! Pretty convenient!

    > as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
    > incoming call is an emergency or not,

    There are NO incoming calls. See above.

    > and to whether to answer the call and
    > then end up getting charged for a useless call.

    There are no charges.

    >
    > No thank you very much.
    >

    You would look a gift horse in the mouth?
  49. Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

    Andy Pandy wrote:

    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:s7KdnRKG-LfUlQ_fRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
    >
    >>Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
    >>
    >>>>Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
    >>>>calls.
    >>>
    >>>No? Ever used your phone abroad?
    >>
    >>Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
    >>area too.
    >
    >
    > So presumably you've paid for incoming calls. Are you crazy?
    >
    > --
    > Andy
    >
    >

    Can y'all stop cross-posting to the Voice-over-IP group? Thanks.
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