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Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

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May 23, 2005 1:58:46 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part of an
exchange programme for the summer.

Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a decent one with
not too much lag? Or is there a better method than this, ie: is it
cheaper to register with one of those calling card companies in the UK
and call using their number? This'd be great if I could use a UK mobile
phone to call her and not pay through the roof?

Thanks for your help!

Mark.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 1:58:47 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Does your girl friend have broadband in the US? Do you have a landline
in the UK? Do you have broadband.

Calling the UK is really cheap from the US with a calling card. I use
onesuite.com, it is two something cents a minute. In the other
direction, look at call1899.com. Half a p a minute. They also, have
a VOIP program. I
Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:47:26 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Mark wrote:
> Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part
> of an exchange programme for the summer.
>
> Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply
> involve her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then
> me calling her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a
> decent one with not too much lag? Or is there a better method than
> this, ie: is it cheaper to register with one of those calling card
> companies in the UK and call using their number? This'd be great
> if I could use a UK mobile phone to call her and not pay through
> the roof?
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Mark.

Will there be broadband access where she'll be going..? If so she could
take a VoIP ATA and you could both use something like Sipgate
(www.sipgate.co.uk) which would mean totally free calls. Of course you'd
have to buy the ATA's but alternatively you could use a softphone such as
X-Lite if PC's are available.

If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.

Hope this helps,

Ivor
Related resources
May 23, 2005 3:47:27 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:47:26 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
>can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
>Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
>Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.

Just don't forget that she'll be paying part of the freight as US
mobile system is charged for both incoming and outgoing calls. There
is no penalty however for calling a mobile number. The rate to call
is the same as a fixed line.

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May 23, 2005 3:57:52 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Stuart Friedman wrote:

> Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
> offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
> effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
> nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
> US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.

Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
/receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

Thanks.
Mark.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:06:26 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:58:46 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

>Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
>her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
>her via a voice over ip service?

using 18866 or the like could be cheaper, depending on rates offerred
by the VoIP provider for calls out to US numbers.

Prepay is far less common in th eUSA and mobiles have standard area
code numbers.

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !
May 23, 2005 4:06:27 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

>>Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
>>her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
>>her via a voice over ip service?
>
>
> using 18866 or the like could be cheaper, depending on rates offerred
> by the VoIP provider for calls out to US numbers.
>
> Prepay is far less common in th eUSA and mobiles have standard area
> code numbers.

Thanks for all your advice so far guys, everyone that replied to my
questions.

I do have broadband, though she won't have internet access when she's
over there I don't think.

I like the idea of something like the pre-dial service, that seems
pretty cheap, and I could call their access number using the free
landline minutes I get with my '3' mobile contract here in the UK.

You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
available anywhere at all? She doesn't have a triband phone... She'll
be working in or around the ocean city area in maryland... can she pick
up a prepay mobile there do you think?

Cheers.
May 23, 2005 4:06:28 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

>You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
>available anywhere at all? She doesn't have a triband phone... She'll
>be working in or around the ocean city area in maryland... can she pick
>up a prepay mobile there do you think?

That's nonsense that prepaid are not common in the US. Most every
operator has some sort of prepaid. T-Mobile, cingular, 7-11, Virgin
Mobile, Locus Mobile, Beyond Wireless, CallPlus and others. The only
GSM prepaid in the "traditioal" sense is T-Mobile, cingular.

You can pick up a prepaid package from most any of the ones mentioned
above. To get a prepaid SIM you're likely to get a better deal by
going to eBay than you are going to a traditional store. With the
non-GSM providers you'll likely have to buy a phone from them for
their service unless you can find a used phone that was on their
service previously. This is also true with 7-11 though it is a GSM
MVNO you cannot buy just the SIM from them. It's definitely not as
convenient as it is in Europe.

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Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:15:41 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls, some
off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.

Stu

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
> Stuart Friedman wrote:
>
>> Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
>> offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
>> effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
>> nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
>> US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
>
> Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
> mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
> /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
>
> Thanks.
> Mark.
May 23, 2005 4:31:11 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site about
having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but doesn't say
incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out about this?


Stuart Friedman wrote:
> All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls, some
> off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.
>
> Stu
>
> "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
> news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>
>>Stuart Friedman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
>>>offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
>>>effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
>>>nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
>>>US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
>>
>>Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
>>mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
>>/receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Mark.
>
>
>
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:33:33 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Mark wrote:
\> Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
> US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
> /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

In the U.S., the user of a mobile phone always pays airtime whether
calling or receiving a call. For people on post-pay, they generally have
a fairly large bucket of included peak-time minutes per month, and many
such plans include unlimited free off-peak and weekend airtime. Also, it
is very common for all calls to other users of the same provider to be
free at all times. These free times do not apply to pre-pay users.
Furthermore, since the mobile phone user pays for incoming airtime,
there is no surcharge for the caller to call a mobile phone. Mobile
phone numbers in the U.S. cannot be identified by the number, and in
fact, a number can be moved between a landline and mobile provider.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:49:22 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

I cannot point you to the specific provision on the website, but I can tell
you that in the U.S. mobile numbers are on the same area codes as landlines,
that calls to mobiles are not surcharged, and that we normally pay for
incoming calls on our mobile plans. Even on contract plans, the exceptions
are few and far between. We have free mobile to mobile calls on many
contract plans (and on a small number of prepaid plans), we have free nights
and weekends, but incoming calls are come out of our bucket of minutes.

Whether the U.S. system or the European system of caller pays is a better
system has been debated extensively on various groups before. I go both
ways on this point and have no definitive answer.


"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:jv9ke.11800$WQ3.9119@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
> That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site about
> having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but doesn't say
> incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out about this?
>
>
> Stuart Friedman wrote:
>> All calls with a few exceptions (e.g. certain mobile to mobile calls,
>> some off peak calls, etc.). All the exceptions are plan specific.
>>
>> Stu
>>
>> "Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
>> news:409ke.14508$hn5.14332@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
>>
>>>Stuart Friedman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
>>>>offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
>>>>effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
>>>>nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
>>>>US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
>>>
>>>Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native US
>>>mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
>>>/receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>Mark.
>>
>>
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:37:48 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Thus spaketh Mark:
> That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
> about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
> doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
> about this?
>
In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive your
call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some networks may
allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to be free. This
also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile as it does a USA
landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never took off here in
Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying for incoming calls on
some of the websites as in the USA it is common knowledge you have to pay.
May 23, 2005 5:37:49 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:

> In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive your
> call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some networks may
> allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to be free. This
> also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile as it does a USA
> landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never took off here in
> Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying for incoming calls on
> some of the websites as in the USA it is common knowledge you have to pay.

I see. Hmm. Okay then, well, leading up to my final questions :) .. Can
anyone recommend what network the cheapest Pay-as-you go mobile she
could pick up would be, that would charge the least amount to receive an
incoming call from Britain? Just some pointers would be cool, I know so
little about US mobile companies that I just need somewhere to start.
Coverage would have to be good in the Ocean City area of Maryland.

Thanks again!!
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:37:50 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
(https://www.mycricket.com/).


"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:RC9ke.11539$X86.271@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
>
>> In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive
>> your call or it comes out of some of their inclusive minutes, some
>> networks may allow for the first 30 seconds or so of an incoming call to
>> be free. This also means it costs the same for you to call a USA mobile
>> as it does a USA landline. Crazy system I know, and one I am glad never
>> took off here in Europe and elsewhere. It might not mention about paying
>> for incoming calls on some of the websites as in the USA it is common
>> knowledge you have to pay.
>
> I see. Hmm. Okay then, well, leading up to my final questions :) .. Can
> anyone recommend what network the cheapest Pay-as-you go mobile she could
> pick up would be, that would charge the least amount to receive an
> incoming call from Britain? Just some pointers would be cool, I know so
> little about US mobile companies that I just need somewhere to start.
> Coverage would have to be good in the Ocean City area of Maryland.
>
> Thanks again!!
May 23, 2005 5:37:51 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Stuart Friedman wrote:
> Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
> the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
> or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
> Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
> mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
> interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
> (https://www.mycricket.com/).

Thanks...

Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...

Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

Thanks for everyone's help :-)

mark.
May 23, 2005 5:37:51 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 01:11:05 GMT, "Stuart Friedman" <stu@nospam.na>
wrote:

>Incoming calls cost the same whether the originator is in the UK or across
>the street. The cheapest pay as you go plan carries a per day usesage charge
>or very short termination periods. I think the best values on whole are
>Virginmobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), the 7-11 offering that I
>mentioned, icallplus, libertywireless.com. In a few cities there is an
>interesting alternative in a few select cities called Cricket
>(https://www.mycricket.com/).

Cheapest is Beyond Wireless.

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Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:37:52 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:
> Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
> calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
> Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...

If you will be talking a fair bit, then she should get a post-paid plan that
includes a fair-sized pail of minutes.

> Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
> text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
> since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
> incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

Anything that doesn't involve mobile phones will be a lot cheaper (pretty
close to free if you do it right).

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
May 23, 2005 11:19:01 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 01:09:56 -0500, mnc@admin.u.nu (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

>If you will be talking a fair bit, then she should get a post-paid plan that
>includes a fair-sized pail of minutes.

If she doesn't have US credit it's unlikely she can get a postpaid
monthly plan unless she ponies up several hundered dollars deposit (if
then even.)

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Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:12:36 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Mark wrote:
> That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
> about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
> doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
> about this?

Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to go
mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a *caller* have
to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?

It's not normally a problem as most US calling plans have more inclusive
minutes than you know what to do with, but for PAYG you have to watch out.
Also note that calls are usually billed by the minute not the second, so a
1 minute 5 second call costs you 2 minutes.

BTW please note that top posting is frowned upon in this group, thanks.

Ivor
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:41:12 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:

>You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
>available anywhere at all?

yes they are available but watch out for things like no roaming to
other networks, no roaming outside the home city or State etc. They
aren't common like in the UK, by far the majority are on contract
phones (paying for incoming calls is a factor).

GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
prepay options (Virgin Mobile using Sprint is digital but not GSM so
texting won't work).

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/
http://www.t-mobile.com/

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:41:13 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

> GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
> so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
> prepay options

See ?....the merrycans are not stupid.........they don't throw out the baby
with the bathwater.....our analogue TV is next...new technology squandering
the worlds resources.....
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 2:13:01 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:o eake.15118$sE4.1888@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Thanks...
>
> Hmm, it looks like most of these charge around 0.10c a minute to receive
> calls, looks like it's pretty much standard across the board, apart from
> Cricket which doesn't cover Maryland...
>
> Beginning to think it might actually be a lot cheaper to swap the odd
> text and leave the onus on her to call me using a cheap calling card,
> since that'll be far cheaper than the 10c a minute to receive an
> incoming call, and then me do the same if she can get access to a landline..

If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a lot
more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile from
a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.

That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost of
calling them is very high.

--
Andy
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:a_8ke.14505$hn5.10099@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

> Thanks for all your advice so far guys, everyone that replied to my
> questions.

My 2p worth

Orange PAYG works in usa - you could text her cheaply and she could receive
for nowt.
If she could get access to a land line, you could call her cheaply with 1899
from your landline, or quite cheaply from an Orange mobile with 18866.

Don't know about t'other mobile networks sorry!


--

J B
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:08:07 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

J B wrote:
>
> Orange PAYG works in usa - you could text her cheaply and she could receive
> for nowt.
>
That's quite recent - I discovered it by accident. I had just installed my
Orange SIM, to check some phone numbers (I was in the US at the time) and
within seconds, a text message from a cousin in the UK arrived!

If I had to rely on the Orange website, though, I'd still think PAYG Orange
was unavailable in the US.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 3:41:04 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

> In the USA the owner of the mobile you are calling has to pay to receive
your
> call

They pay for minutes used. For in-bound it's just minutes consumed. For
outbound it's minutes plus any long-distance that might be involved. Calls
to/from phones on the same provider are often free (this varies from one
carrier to another). Free as in not consuming any minutes.
May 23, 2005 3:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Andy Pandy wrote:

> If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a lot
> more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile from
> a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
>
> That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
> incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost of
> calling them is very high.

Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
massively cheap rates to call the UK?

Mark.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 4:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Yup, the cheapest rate I've got to a UK mobile is $0.15 a minute.

Stu

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:axjke.1569$RG2.1556@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Andy Pandy wrote:
>
>> If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of
>> a lot
>> more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3"
>> mobile from
>> a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
>>
>> That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying
>> for
>> incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the
>> cost of
>> calling them is very high.
>
> Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
> massively cheap rates to call the UK?
>
> Mark.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 5:40:24 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:axjke.1569$RG2.1556@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> > If she calls you on your UK mobile it'll almost certainly cost a hell of a
lot
> > more than 10c per minute. It costs over 21p per minute to call a "3" mobile
from
> > a UK (BT) landine - calling it from the US is likely to be more.
> >
> > That's the other side of the coin to the US system of mobile user paying for
> > incoming calls. It costs a lot to terminate calls on UK mobiles so the cost
of
> > calling them is very high.
>
> Even if she used one of the calling card /pre-dial companies that claim
> massively cheap rates to call the UK?

Yes. They will have much higher rates for calling UK mobiles than for calling UK
landlines. They would lose money on calls to mobiles otherwise, since your UK
mobile operator charges them high termination fees.

It's the same calling from the UK to countries where it is free to receive
mobile calls (eg France). The cost of calling French mobiles is a hell of a lot
more than the cost of calling French landlines (on 1899 it is 15 times the
cost!). Calling US mobiles is the same price as calling US landlines because of
the US system where mobile users pay to receive.

All mobile operators have high termination fees - the difference between the US
and UK system is who pays it. In the UK the caller always pays, in the US the
mobile user pays.

Forget mobiles - use landlines wherever possible and you and your girlfriend can
gas very cheaply, or even free.

0.5p per min on 1899: http://www.call1899.co.uk/index2.php

or free using a VOIP service like Skype, if you both have broadband access:
http://www.skype.com

--
Andy
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 6:41:15 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Mark wrote:
> Stuart Friedman wrote:
>
>> Does your girl friend have a triband? One of the better prepaid
>> offerings comes from 711.com. Their speakout wireless phones are
>> effectively free and the per minute rate is $US0.20 a minute. It works
>> nationwide in the US, and has a one year expiry. Remember that in the
>> US incoming calls come out of your bucket of minutes.
>
>
> Sorry by this do you mean that if someone from abroad calls any native
> US mobile phone, even if that phone is in the US, they have to pay to
> /receive/ the call? Or does that go for all calls?

If someone anywhere (even in the USA standing right next to you using a
normal house phone in a US house) calls a US cellphone, then the
recipient pays for those minutes. US mobiles are on normal dialling
codes so cost no more to call than any other local number. The extra
cost is picked up by the recipient.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 7:55:32 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
> Mark wrote:
>> That's mad. I can't find anything on the 7-Eleven Speak Out site
>> about having to pay for incoming calls, it says incoming texts but
>> doesn't say incoming calls, can you point me to where to find out
>> about this?
>
> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to
> go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
>
> It's not normally a problem as most US calling plans have more
> inclusive minutes than you know what to do with, but for PAYG you
> have to watch out. Also note that calls are usually billed by the
> minute not the second, so a 1 minute 5 second call costs you 2
> minutes.
> BTW please note that top posting is frowned upon in this group,
> thanks.
> Ivor

The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a mobile or not.

Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming calls.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 8:00:40 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_MqdncOrZ_hBcwzfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
> The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a mobile or not.

Yes, but the mobile networks use termination charges to subsidise the prices
they charge their users. On a "caller pays" system, it should cost the same to
call a mobile from a landline as to call a landline from a mobile - but it is
generally much cheaper to call a landline from a mobile.

> Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming calls.

No? Ever used your phone abroad?

--
Andy
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 9:44:05 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
> "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:_MqdncOrZ_hBcwzfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
>> The caller has the choice whether to pay the cost of calling a
>> mobile or not.
>
> Yes, but the mobile networks use termination charges to subsidise the
> prices they charge their users. On a "caller pays" system, it should
> cost the same to call a mobile from a landline as to call a landline
> from a mobile - but it is generally much cheaper to call a landline
> from a mobile.
>
>> Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
>> calls.
>
> No? Ever used your phone abroad?

Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
area too.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 10:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...

> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose to go
> mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a *caller* have
> to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?

Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
not to have a phone ?

Richard [in PE12]
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 10:54:18 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Phil Thompson" <phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:o o1391dhhiel29pq554hfiloa019cthf6o@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:55:50 GMT, Mark <x@unknown.com> wrote:
>
> >You say that prepay telephones arent that common in the US, are they
> >available anywhere at all?
>
> yes they are available but watch out for things like no roaming to
> other networks, no roaming outside the home city or State etc.

Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

Richard [in PE12]
May 23, 2005 11:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1h92919rjjpqsrc6q9546n7qsndpdbppbm@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:47:26 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>If you want to go the mobile route, then if she gets a US PAYG phone you
>>can call it using either inclusive minutes on an Orange or O2 mobile via
>>Pre-Dial, or at relatively cheap rates from Sipgate (1.5p/min) or
>>Telestunt/Telediscount etc. from a BT/Telewest line.
>
> Just don't forget that she'll be paying part of the freight as US
> mobile system is charged for both incoming and outgoing calls. There
> is no penalty however for calling a mobile number. The rate to call
> is the same as a fixed line.
>
And there is no mobile-specific number (like 07). They are all geographical
numbers relating to the area the sim originates, indistinguishable from
landlines. The amount US mobile users pay to receive calls is fixed,
regardless of where they originate. It varies between 15 (8p) and 35 (20p)
cents a minute, depending on how much credit you get on your sim card or
when you top-up. Calling UK is around $1.50 a min (82p).

Alec
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 11:18:02 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Jet Morgan wrote:
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
>
>> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
>> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
>> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
>
> Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
> have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
> should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
> not to have a phone ?

That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>

As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for the
money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a problem.
My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes and never use
them all, even with incoming calls.

Ivor
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 11:22:48 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.gm4dhj@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Uygke.10872$RJ6.3544@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> > GSM coverage has improved a lot but isn't everywhere by a long chalk,
> > so a review of maps is called for. Their are analogue and digital
> > prepay options
>
> See ?....the merrycans are not stupid.........they don't throw out the baby
> with the bathwater.....our analogue TV is next...new technology squandering
> the worlds resources.....
>
Is that why they are fast dumping Analogue AMPs phones on 850MHz
for 850MHz GSM?

Giving them dualband 850 and 1900MHz GSM, and with quad band
GSM phones, world-wide roaming.

I take it Freeview BBC3 and 4, and ITV2 and 3 are a mystery to you?

Steve Terry
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 12:12:26 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
> Jet Morgan wrote:
>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
>>
>>> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
>>> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
>>> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
>>
>> Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
>> have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
>> should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
>> not to have a phone ?
>
> That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
>
> As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for
> the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a
> problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes
> and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
>
> Ivor

What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not want to
have to pay a monthly rental charge?
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 12:12:27 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:

> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
>
>>Jet Morgan wrote:
>>
>>>"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
>>>>to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
>>>>*caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
>>>
>>>Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
>>>have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
>>>should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
>>>not to have a phone ?
>>
>>That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
>>
>>As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes for
>>the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely causes a
>>problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for 2000 minutes
>>and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
>>
>>Ivor
>
>
> What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not want to
> have to pay a monthly rental charge?
>
>

If the phone is working, 911 is required to be working, free.

There are groups that collect old phones (partially to keep them out of
the landfills) and give the working ones to women at risk.

http://www.recycleforlondon.com/media_centre/mobile_pho...

and similar in the US.

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7269.html
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 12:48:19 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

>Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
>their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

If you have a postpaid plan, which is what's considered normal in the
US, GSM handsets roam just fine. I've used mine all over the US as
well in Canada and Argentina. Cingular tells me that if I put the SIM
in my 900/1800 phone it'll work in Europe, but their roaming rates are
so high there's no point. Most prepaid plans are from resellers who
make their own deals with the underlying carriers, and some arrange
for roaming and some don't.

That said, I agree with everyone else who says that if your goal is to
talk with someone who's in Maryland, you should forget about mobile
phones. Find out if the place she's staying has a phone and if so,
just call her on it using one of the cheap UK calling services. If
not, should should get a prepaid US calling card that charges 2
cents/min to call the UK and call you from a pay phone. Google for
"calling cards" and you'll find zillions of them, most that you can
buy over the net and are delivered virtually, just an access phone
number and a PIN.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 1:55:23 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"John R. Levine" wrote:
>
> If you have a postpaid plan, which is what's considered normal in the
> US, GSM handsets roam just fine. I've used mine all over the US as
> well in Canada and Argentina. Cingular tells me that if I put the SIM
> in my 900/1800 phone it'll work in Europe, but their roaming rates are
> so high there's no point.
>
Last month, my usual UK SP (Orange) suffered a temporary outage, and I
switched to my Cingular/ATT SIM card - it worked just fine. It's useful as
an emergency backup, but as you say, far too expensive.
May 24, 2005 2:08:30 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 18:54:18 +0100, "Jet Morgan"
<jm@paran---andr---.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Are you saying that a US GSM handset can not "roam" outside
>their own state (or even city) ? And why is that called "roaming" ?

Of course they can. It's generally called roaming when you're using
another network to complete your calls. These days many plans include
roaming on other networks so that's not even an issue.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 2:39:40 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Thus spaketh Rick Merrill:
> {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
>
>> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
>>
>>> Jet Morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:3fde37F71hskU1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Not mad at all. The US school of thought is simple - *you* choose
>>>>> to go mobile, therefore *you* pay for the privilege. Why should a
>>>>> *caller* have to pay extra because *you* want to go out..?
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean that if *I* choose not to have a phone at all, I
>>>> have to pay for a taxi for the caller to come and visit me ? Why
>>>> should a caller pay to travel to my house, just because *I* choose
>>>> not to have a phone ?
>>>
>>> That's a poor analogy, they can always write a letter <g>
>>>
>>> As I said, US calling plans generally have more inclusive minutes
>>> for the money than we do so using some for incoming calls rarely
>>> causes a problem. My friends in San Francisco pay around $35 for
>>> 2000 minutes and never use them all, even with incoming calls.
>>>
>>> Ivor
>>
>>
>> What about people who only have a phone for emergencies and do not
>> want to have to pay a monthly rental charge?
>>
>>
>
> If the phone is working, 911 is required to be working, free.
>
> There are groups that collect old phones (partially to keep them out
> of the landfills) and give the working ones to women at risk.
>
> http://www.recycleforlondon.com/media_centre/mobile_pho...
>
> and similar in the US.
>
> http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7269.html

Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,
and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,
as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
incoming call is an emergency or not, and to whether to answer the call and
then end up getting charged for a useless call.

No thank you very much.
May 24, 2005 2:39:41 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:39:40 +0100, "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}"
<bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,
>and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,
>as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
>incoming call is an emergency or not, and to whether to answer the call and
>then end up getting charged for a useless call.

People in Europe are going to argue with people in North America til
the cows come home, but the fact remains that the North Americans are
*not* going to switch to a caller pays mobile system. That's it.
Get used to it. It's been tried and it failed in North America. If
you want to argue that caller pays is the greatest fine. Just don't
expect us here in North America to agree with you. Arguments are
really a *WASTE OF TIME!*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 2:46:35 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"Mark" <x@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:qg7ke.18602$Pi3.9562@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part of an
> exchange programme for the summer.
>
> Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
> her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
> her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a decent one with
> not too much lag? Or is there a better method than this, ie: is it
> cheaper to register with one of those calling card companies in the UK
> and call using their number? This'd be great if I could use a UK mobile
> phone to call her and not pay through the roof?

The cheapest way is for her to call your landline from a landline in the
U.S., using a calling card. Rates to the U.K. are very cheap, around 2 cents
per minute. To call a UK mobile phone is more, around 15-17 cents per
minute. Long calls to a mobile phone in the U.S. are going to cost you a
lot, since incoming calls are not free.

In terms of which prepaid phone to get, it depends on where she is going to
be, how much she is going to talk on it, and at what time. The best choice
is probably Beyond Wireless, which is as low as 10 cents per minute, has
excellent coverage, and will use any old Nokia or Motorola TDMA phone that
was previously used on AT&T Wireless TDMA (they will also sell you a phone).
7-11 convenience stores sell a GSM phone and charge 20 cents per minute, but
GSM coverage in the U.S. isn't so great.

Verizon InPulse is normally not a great plan, since they have a $1 fee for
every day you use your phone. But the per minute cost is only 10¢, and they
offer free night calling, 9:01 pm - 5:59 am, local time (but not free
weekend calling). So this may actually work out for you, given the time
difference. None of the other prepaid service offer free off-peak.

See http://prepaiduswireless.com for comparisons on prepaid wireless.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 5:18:33 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s7KdnRKG-LfUlQ_fRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
> Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
> >> Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
> >> calls.
> >
> > No? Ever used your phone abroad?
>
> Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
> area too.

So presumably you've paid for incoming calls. Are you crazy?

--
Andy
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 7:33:29 AM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

"John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> wrote in message
news:D 6ttkj$5ac$1@xuxa.iecc.com...
> Most prepaid plans are from resellers who
> make their own deals with the underlying carriers, and some arrange
> for roaming and some don't.

Ironically, Cingular and T-Mobile, who actually own networks, do not allow
roaming on pre-paid. But resellers of GSM prepaid all allow roaming, at high
per minute rates.

GSM is not the best choice for U.S. prepaid. The best choice is TDMA/AMPS,
the second best choice is CDMA/AMPS. This holds true even though you may
need to buy a phone.

See http://prepaiduswireless.com


> That said, I agree with everyone else who says that if your goal is to
> talk with someone who's in Maryland, you should forget about mobile
> phones. Find out if the place she's staying has a phone and if so,
> just call her on it using one of the cheap UK calling services.

If she gets one of the prepaid TDMA plans, such as from Beyond Wireless, he
can send her a free text message indicating the number where she should call
him. There is no minimum, and no activation fee on their plan; she could get
by for the whole summer without actually buying any time. She just needs to
find an old AT&T TDMA phone, but these are a dime a dozen now, on
craigslist.org.
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 12:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
....
> Yes, but if you have your phone not on a contract, how long will it work for,

In the US the phone will "work" for 911 until the battery fails.

> and also you would have to ignore all incoming calls so not as to get charged,

If one has no plan, one has no number, and therefor there are no
incoming calls at all! Pretty convenient!

> as you phone is really only for emergencies, how do you know whether an
> incoming call is an emergency or not,

There are NO incoming calls. See above.

> and to whether to answer the call and
> then end up getting charged for a useless call.

There are no charges.

>
> No thank you very much.
>

You would look a gift horse in the mouth?
Anonymous
May 24, 2005 12:53:15 PM

Archived from groups: uk.telecom.mobile,alt.cellular-phone-tech,alt.cellular,comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Andy Pandy wrote:

> "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:s7KdnRKG-LfUlQ_fRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
>
>>Thus spaketh Andy Pandy:
>>
>>>>Thankfully we never went down the crazy route of paying for incoming
>>>>calls.
>>>
>>>No? Ever used your phone abroad?
>>
>>Yes, many many times, but that is roaming, and things are changing in that
>>area too.
>
>
> So presumably you've paid for incoming calls. Are you crazy?
>
> --
> Andy
>
>

Can y'all stop cross-posting to the Voice-over-IP group? Thanks.
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