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Need to choose b/w AGP X850pro and 6800GT :(

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June 30, 2006 9:35:41 PM

I noticed that refurbished X850 pro is available at ATI for $139. I found a XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme (350MHZ 256MB 256BIT 1000MHZ GDDR3) [btw this is a 6800GT, rite?] card selling for $145. I am on a tight leash as far as the budget is concerned. Will a X850pro be a better buy? I am worried abt the fact that it does nt support SM 3.0 as I am going to stick with this card for abt a couple of years. Also, it has only 12 pipelines compared to 16 on 6800GT. How is the performance comparison between these 2? All the benchmarking I could find was confusing with neither card as the clear winner.

Another question-->I currently have a 300W supply for my Gigabyte K8VM mobo that has a single AGP 8x slot (am using a FX5200 :oops:  ) with two hard disks and a CD drive connected. Will I have to upgrade the SMPS [if that is wat equates to the power supply] etc.? If yes then to wat power (for both the cards plz)?

Thanks so much..
June 30, 2006 10:44:42 PM

the 6800XT on the box says requires 500W which is entirely false, 400 would run it fine, i suggest the X800 or something from the X800 series, and if you can as well, buy a decent 350-400W pSU from antec or enermax, then you shuld be fine. ATI selling the X800 on the clearance part of their website for 120-130 bucks, i suggest u snag that deal.
June 30, 2006 10:59:18 PM

I believe the XTreme is 8 pipelines - the 6800 GT is a 16 pipeline card.

I could be wrong though, but if that's the case the X850 PRO is much better...
Related resources
July 1, 2006 11:12:23 AM

definently the x850 pro :p 
it is faster in most games(except openGL games such as quake/doom)
July 1, 2006 12:11:41 PM

Check for the pipelines as Cleeve states. If it were a 6800XT, definitely go for the 850, the XT is crippled. If it were a 6800GT, I'd go for it.

As for the PSUs, I'm running a 6800GT, 2 PCI cards, a Prescott, 2 optical drives, 2 hard drives etc flawlessly off a 250W, but it's a good quality 250W, and certainly your mileage may vary.

Synergy6
July 1, 2006 12:55:13 PM

even if it is the 8 pipeline 6800gt version i would still go for the x850xt!
July 1, 2006 1:23:08 PM

Which site?? the link is to this thread itself... :( 

I'll check the pipeline thing and post again...but meanwhile, wat abt the SM 3.0 factor? Shud I think of tht at all?

And plz tell me abt the power supply for X850 pro as well...in case I go for the 6800 i'll change to 400W. Does X850 need a better supply?

Thanx..
July 1, 2006 1:30:05 PM

sorry bout the link i must of copied somethin be4 i pasted the real link :o 

real link
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

s.m 3.0 is shader model 3
i think both the 6800 and x800 series both support sm 2.0 not 3.0 but look into it.
this doesnt matter that much though
July 1, 2006 1:41:40 PM

Thanx for the link..
I know a bit abt the shader model thing but i was just wondering whether it mattered because 6800 supportes sm 3.0 while x850pro does nt. Tht is nt a very imp factor for me but just wanted to check.
July 1, 2006 1:43:54 PM

so do u need a new power supply or not :?:
July 1, 2006 1:45:04 PM

the site is gud but it does nt list x850pro...shud i check using a x800pro or a x850?
July 1, 2006 1:51:56 PM

check the x800 pro that should be very similar(maybe a few watts less)
if it has x850xt cheack that as well
if the x850xt fits into your watts limit the x850pro will as well
July 1, 2006 1:56:41 PM

Actually am nt at my place these days so nt sure whether I have checked the correct fan among the options.
In any case I'm getting abt 270W needed for 6800/X850 (nt pro)...however if i take the age of the mobo and supply in consideration, I'll need to add abt 20% to it. Which wud make 350W as a safe option. I guess 300W wud work as well but I don't wanna blow sumthing up :?
July 1, 2006 2:01:33 PM

probly best to get a new psu then
July 1, 2006 2:08:59 PM

Ya I guess so.. :( 
Another thing is...my mobo specs say that the slot is AGP 4x/8x which is fine...it also says tht it supports 1.5v card only. Wat's tht supposed to mean?
Exact text--> 1 x AGP slot (8x/4x-AGP 3.0 compliant), supports 1.5v display card only

AGP 8x cards are 0.8v as far as I know...will this be a problem if i get a X850pro/X800 XL/6800???
July 1, 2006 2:11:47 PM

Gr8...another choice came up now 8O

X850pro vs X800XL ??? :?:
July 1, 2006 2:14:50 PM

x800xl isn't as good as the x850pro

about the 1.5 volt thing idk
i would assume that it works
google it
July 1, 2006 2:22:26 PM

K..i'll check the voltage thingy.
But i saw in a couple of reviews/threads tht X800XL and X850pro perform quite similarly in almost all benchmarks so it has to be decided on price. Then why do u say tht X850pro is better??? Plz let me know..
July 1, 2006 2:30:23 PM

yes they are very similar
only a few % difference
how much is the x800xl
July 1, 2006 2:34:51 PM

Quote:
x800xl isn't as good as the x850pro


There have been many recent discussions about this since these deals were posted. These two cards are very close in performance, trading blows in different games and at different settings. I've been reading some of Giraffe's recent posts and he seems to be somewhat clueless on many topics, yet still offering concrete advice (i.e. in another thread he states that that a 7900GT is faster and a better value than an X1800XT) I don't know what prices are in Australia, but the X1800XT is cheaper in many cases on U.S. websites (which tend to be cheaper than brick and mortar shops) and the X1800XT is the better card for many games. I suggest doing more research before offering concrete advice.
July 1, 2006 2:35:30 PM

its abt 20 CAN$ less...but u have to consider the 15% tax as well.
July 1, 2006 2:36:32 PM

Quote:
yes they are very similar


Now you say they are similar???
July 1, 2006 2:40:48 PM

get whichever one works out cheaper for u
July 1, 2006 2:44:10 PM

turdburglar
first of all let me say f*** you!
in aus the 7900gt is usually around 450$
the x1800xt usually around 600$
July 1, 2006 2:47:08 PM

All I'm saying is figure out where the op is, what prices are, and how the cards actually perform before you go telling him that one option is absolutely better than another.
July 1, 2006 2:49:32 PM

Quote:
turdburglar
first of all let me say f*** you!
in aus the 7900gt is usually around 450$
the x1800xt usually around 600$


hes right. U give false advise.

this is from another thread

Quote:
the 7900gt is better performance and value than the x1800xt
it also uses less power and runs cooler Cool

u should be able to trust the card if not go with an asus or gigabyte maybe
and theres nothin wrong with ati cards


better performance. WRONG!
cheaper? WRONG!

X1800Xt $259 - $30 rebate = $129
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

7900GT $261.99 no rebate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


obviously its cheaper and performs better. U give lousy advice, get ur facts right then post.
July 1, 2006 2:53:55 PM

shut the fck up penguin go bak to antarctica
July 1, 2006 2:55:21 PM

The 6800XT is the lowest of the whole 6800 range, below even the standard 6800. The X850Pro is like an X850XT, except with lower core/RAM speeds, and four pipes locked. If you can get a 6800GT, then I'd get that over the X850Pro, but if you can only get the XT, the get the X850Pro.
July 1, 2006 2:56:57 PM

Quote:
shut the fck up penguin go bak to antarctica


see, noobs resort to cursing when they have lost.


Its alright buddy, pointing out a fact, no reason to get pissed.
July 1, 2006 3:00:31 PM

yeah well we dont all live in us and get stuf from newegg do we?
July 1, 2006 3:13:08 PM

Quote:
yeah well they dont sell it here anymore so the places that do sell it cheap



OWNED!!!!

so once again, you, give false advice so stfu and leave the forum.


asshole.
July 1, 2006 3:19:03 PM

what do u know penguin u live in antarctica not australia
July 1, 2006 3:22:00 PM

Quote:
what do u know u live in antarctica not australia


ok, once again, the more you talk the stupider i will make you look..


As stated above im smarter than you.

So supposedly i live on a barren iceworld where there are no schools and im smarter than you..


Congrats ur stupider than a flightless bird.
July 1, 2006 3:24:48 PM

yay :D 
July 1, 2006 4:07:11 PM

Yes, and there is a good chance that the 6800XT can be unlocked to 16P/6VP from 8P/4VP, even then though it won't be in the same league as a 6800GT because that has 1.1Ghz DDR3 RAM and the XT has only 700Mhz DDR1.

Personally I'd go for the 6800XT, and risk that it can be fully unlocked, it has newer graphics technology and after I got done with my X800GTO, I will only go NVidia for the time being. Given that a vanilla 6800 (12P/5VP) outperforms my X800GTO (which is similar speed and spec to an X850Pro), you can almost definitely unlock the 6800XT to 12P/5VP. Money you save on the 6800XT can go towards a better cooling setup for it. The ATi X8xx series of cards seem to put out immense amounts of heat even when idle and in 2D modes.
a c 107 U Graphics card
July 1, 2006 4:57:14 PM

Quote:
The ATi X8xx series of cards seem to put out immense amounts of heat even when idle and in 2D modes.


wont argue that one....i mean 38.6 idle is hot for an after market cooler.....
60 @ load

With the stock it was like 50 idle
87 to 92 load....

I am not sure what a stock 79xx runs at?
July 1, 2006 5:26:35 PM

79xx series have very good coolers which run both quietly and cool. They are all copper and you can tell how much faith NVidia puts in them from their small size. I don't know the temperature it runs at but when I last installed one in a PC it was not hugely hot to the touch, I think under 40C idle (when I read the core temperature readout). My Gecube X800GTO with a massive Uniwise, heatpiped copper cooler and in this heat seems to be doing 50-60C idle, though admittedly this is in an SFF PC (but that SFF PC is powered by a low-heat Pentium M). I'm pretty sure when I come round to upgrade it's going to be to a 7900GT and I want to have a Core 2 Duo in it too (because single-core just doesn't cut it any more).
a c 171 U Graphics card
July 1, 2006 6:03:19 PM

Pay attention, the voice of reason is about to speak...
This website has a wonderful interactive tool that lets you compare various parts. It has one for Video cards. They don't list either of your cards, so I picked ones I think might be close.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...
Ok, I lied, you said 6800GT, so I picked that. Only one person has mentioned it so far, and there has be too much personal bickering, so I'll say it again. The 6800XT is NOT the same as a 6800GT. Order of 6800s from lowest to highest is, XT, GS, GT, Ultra. (is there a "normal" version? just 6800?)
Toms video card compare doesn't have the 850pro, and the XT PE would be faster. I picked an x800XT version, hoping they are close. As you can see from the graph, the only x800 card to lose to a REAL 6800GT, is the XL version. (a x800GTO would lose also.) With this being the case, and unless you want to do some overclocking/modding, your best bet is to grab a x800(non XL) If you are into modding, you might want to grab an x800GTO, or XL, and mod it into a pro/XT.
July 1, 2006 11:00:48 PM

[/quote]Well I now know tht the XFX 6800 Xtreme card is basically a 6800XT and nt GT as I had believed earlier :( 
So after all the fuss, the main question becomes: a 6800XT vs. X850pro vs. X800 XL
The specs for 6800XT are given here:
http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDe...
X800 XL:
http://shopati.ca/product.asp?sku=2984012
X850pro:
http://shopati.ca/product.asp?sku=2699206
I suppose tht 6800XT is nt as gud as the other 2? Just to clarify, I'm nt thinking of any modding/OCing so plz look at the specs as given.
Thanx..
a b U Graphics card
July 1, 2006 11:25:02 PM

The X850 pro, X800XL, and 6800GT are all about equal performers, trading blows depending on the game/settings. The 6800XT is not even close; way behind.

Study these charts and the various resolutions & eye candy to compare the three cards. You will see all are competetive with one another. One note however is that the X800XL in these review seems to be an exotic. it would perform the same stock, but I would not count on a regular X800XL overclocking as high as theirs did. Overclocked I think the X850 pro would probably beat the XL. Also note, the 6800 in this review is a 12-pipe better than the 6800XT and look how bad it gets spanked by these other cards as the resolution increases.

If you could get a used 6800GT (16-pipe) for $150 or less, then that would be a good way of getting an SM3.0 card of about equal performance to those two ATI's. BUT, as a 6800U owner I totally feel SM3.0 isn't a big deal for the GF6 series cards. They simply are too weak to really take advantage of the extra possible eye candy like HDR, and the performance boost they should be getting from running that codepath just helps them be equal to the X8xx comparative cards.

SO to me, the best AGP choices would be the new X850 pro from ATI for $139 shipped free. The refurbished X800XL for $119+$15 shipping is a good option too as ATI seems to be real generous on their refurb warranties. Or a used 6800GT for that price. Avoid X800GTO's, GF6800 & 6800GS 12-pipe, and GF 6800XT 8-pipe......NONE of these cards touch the first three mentioned.

I just recently ordered the X850 pro as for $5 more shipped over the XL, it's brand new and I hope to OC it to beyond what the XL could do. Also, I can afford to wait the 2-3 weeks before it will ship. If you need it now, get the XL.
July 1, 2006 11:35:23 PM

If you unlocked the 6800XT you would probably be onto a winner. The X850 cards clock higher than the X800 due to a newer core but that's about it, I'm still not convinced the X850Pro (12-pipe) is faster than the X800XL (16-pipe with lower clocks).

What have you got against the 6800GS? It's basically a highly-clocked 12-pipe card which remains largely competitive with the 6800GT (16 pipes).

It would seem to me that everyone has overlooked one card though, which is the 7600GT. I think that would wipe the floor with most of these cards. I don't know what it costs in the US, but in the UK it is a similar price to all the cards mentioned so far and I'm pretty sure it's what I'm gonna get when I finally find a Core-compatible SFF and make the move to DDR2 and PCIe.
a b U Graphics card
July 2, 2006 12:06:16 AM

We are talking AGP, so no 7600GT(yet?). It makes for a whole different ball game as AGP pricing/availability is lousy compared to PCI-e.

In it's AGP form, the 6800GS is clocked lower and loses to a X800GTO at stock speeds. But Yes, in PCI-e, the 6800GS is clocked higher and is equal or sometimes better to a 6800GT. I am just not a fan of the AGP 6800GS; too slow for it's pricetag. These X850& X800XL AGP deals from ATI are just much better than what's been out there for quite a while in AGP. NV"s comparably priced AGP cards are 6600GT and 6800XT which are no where near the same perfomance league. I wouldn't put much faith in unlocking an 8-pipe card to 16-pipes without any hitch, and even so the X850pro & X800XL are already 6800GT class cards without any mods. Hopefully 7600GS and 7600GT AGP will hit the scene soon; maybe that's why ATI is unloading it's X8xx's now.

Oh, and I didn't say X850 pro is faster than X800XL. I said they are about the same. Stock the X800XL may even edge out the X850 pro, but not by much. Overclocked, I'd think the average X850 pro would outperform the average X800XL as so many of the XL's have little headroom on the core clocks.
July 2, 2006 12:29:06 AM

There goes me overlooking the title, didn't see the AGP in it.

I think there are 7600GS cards on the way. In theory, a 7600GT should be easy to produce as it is pin-compatible with the 6600GT. Surprised no-one has done it yet.

Looks like on AGP, an X850Pro or X800XL really will be the best bet then.
July 2, 2006 12:52:15 AM

My vote is for the X850 Pro. If it has Vivo functionality, it can be modded to an X850 XT PE (16/6) . Stock - it's beats the 6800 GT in most cases and is comparable to the X800 XL. I'd like to give a longer input, but I have to get out of here. Hope the helped.
July 2, 2006 7:30:53 AM

I'm planning to buy a new AGP video card that'll last me a few years to replace my old 9800 PRO. Before I read this post I was looking at the Radeon X850XT on Newegg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

It's been going in and out of stock for a long time now, a lot of people are probably buying. The price tag is pretty high though at $240. Do you think I should get that or the Radexon x800XL/X850pro? I don't mind overclocking as long as it's all software done, I don't want to mess with heatsinks. Also, are there any possible problems with ordering something refurbished?

Has a 7600GT AGP or 7600 GS been confirmed?
!