AM2 or Core Duo 2?

I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.
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  1. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.

    1. AM2 has no reverse hyperthreading. That is speculation and if it happen it should be supported by the CPU. We don't know what RHT is, and we can only guess that it is "speculative threading". If this is true, than we can not expect a lot from K8 becouse it has no direct communication between the spearated caches which is one of the conditions for speculative threading to be usefull. On the other side Intel allready developed it, aka Core Multiplexing. For $500-550 you can buy E6300, with any mid-range RD600 mainboard and 2x512MB DDR2-800 CL5. You'll get excelent overclocking platform.
    For the same money you can buy mid-range sAM2 nForce5 570 mainboard, X2 3800+ and 2x512MB DDR2-800 CL5. The sAM2 platform will be less overclockable and slower when both compared at default clock.
    Core2 Duo is better choice.
  2. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.


    Please pull one AMD spec sheet, one AMD press announcement, or even an AMD spokesman stating that it has RHT.

    Second, RHT even if it exists will not give 2x performance boost it is impossible.

    THis is the problem with rumor and inuendo, neither company has discussed it... however, if you are concerned.... there is "rumor" and "inuendo" that Intel as the same feature hidden in Core 2 Duo (called CMT).

    It's just silly to ask such a question based on this 'key' feature. Why don't you wait, if the rumors are true, AMD will turn it on around the end of july.

    I personally don't believe the AM2's have RHT hidden in them - and that it can just be turned on with a motherboard bios update....

    It is possible that it does exist in there, and has been permanently disabled.... It could have been part of a test for RHT in version G 65nm.... And will be enabled then.... But I still doubt it.... It would more likely be part of a completely new design k8L perhaps....

    If it does exist I would guess an optimum 80% speed increase under strick lab conditions for a single threaded app with nothing else running in the background....
  3. Quote:
    I would guess an optimum 80% speed increase

    I would guess 0-33%, when no other threads are running.
  4. Go with Core 2Duo. with AM2 you wont notice that much of a performance increase over 939 Athlons.
  5. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.


    Hmmm.... That's a bit low for Conroe. Consider the following:

    The slowest Conroe (E6300) is $209 in lots of 1,000. Expect to pay more at retail. A 15% markup is $240.

    1.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $85 from a good namebrand
    2.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $160 from a good namebrand

    1.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $110 from a good namebrand
    2.0GB of DDR2 800 RAM is around $200 from a good namebrand

    The price of a 975XBX and 965 chipset motherboards is unknown since they are not available. Assume a 975XBX will be at least $200+ dollars since the current 975X mobo are at that price. 965 mobos will probably be around $150.

    ATI & nVidia are also producing mobos for Conroe (Core 2 Duo), but prices are also unknown.

    You just might squeeze by for Conroe.

    You should have an easier time with AM2 especially after AMD's price drops for July 24th, but Conroe will definitely offer better performance.
  6. How often do you upgrade? Are you looking for a more future-safe system?
  7. Well, I've got a 915p chipset with an Intel 530. I'm a little reluctant to go with intel because I bought my asus P5GD1 with 915P and I couldn't got dual core. My friend had an Asus 939 mobo and he could upgrade to dual core. I got a little pissed off at intel because of this. I want a system that will run my X1900 XTX. My current P4 3 GHZ bottlenecks my system horribly.
  8. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.

    1. AM2 has no reverse hyperthreading. That is speculation and if it happen it should be supported by the CPU. We don't know what RHT is, and we can only guess that it is "speculative threading". If this is true, than we can not expect a lot from K8 becouse it has no direct communication between the spearated caches which is one of the conditions for speculative threading to be usefull. On the other side Intel allready developed it, aka Core Multiplexing. For $500-550 you can buy E6300, with any mid-range RD600 mainboard and 2x512MB DDR2-800 CL5. You'll get excelent overclocking platform.
    For the same money you can buy mid-range sAM2 nForce5 570 mainboard, X2 3800+ and 2x512MB DDR2-800 CL5. The sAM2 platform will be less overclockable and slower when both compared at default clock.
    Core2 Duo is better choice.


    You should read the patent PDF. There is an added instruction that allows each Core to read or write to the other's cache for instruction cleanup and joins.


    I don't know if it exisits either but Rahul Sood made a comment that made me believe that they do have it and from what I've read and the 8% larger IMC - the cache has shrunk - it could give 30-40%.

    Emphasize could. It could get more if they added any bits for extra superscalar execution.
  9. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.


    Hmmm.... That's a bit low for Conroe. Consider the following:

    The slowest Conroe (E6300) is $209 in lots of 1,000. Expect to pay more at retail. A 15% markup is $240.

    1.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $85 from a good namebrand
    2.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $160 from a good namebrand

    1.0GB of DDR2 667 RAM is around $110 from a good namebrand
    2.0GB of DDR2 800 RAM is around $200 from a good namebrand

    The price of a 975XBX and 965 chipset motherboards is unknown since they are not available. Assume a 975XBX will be at least $200+ dollars since the current 975X mobo are at that price. 965 mobos will probably be around $150.

    ATI & nVidia are also producing mobos for Conroe (Core 2 Duo), but prices are also unknown.

    You just might squeeze by for Conroe.

    You should have an easier time with AM2 especially after AMD's price drops for July 24th, but Conroe will definitely offer better performance.

    Hi Jaguarski,

    I agree there are no 985 mobo's but Intel has added a P965 mobo to their support page. Also, you are quite wrong about the availability of 975XBX motherboards. They are available, they have been available since at least the first of the year, also the -304 rev supports Conroe. That is what has been used for a lot of the pre-Conroe reviews that you have been seeing.

    Here is the link to both the P965 board and 975XBX pages on Intel's support page.

    http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d975xbx/

    http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dp965lt/

    The last link is to the Lemont P965 that is the only board other than the 975XBX that will run a X6800. That is if you want an Intel motherboard.
  10. Quote:
    You should read the patent PDF. There is an added instruction that allows each Core to read or write to the other's cache for instruction cleanup and joins.


    I don't know if it exisits either but Rahul Sood made a comment that made me believe that they do have it and from what I've read and the 8% larger IMC - the cache has shrunk - it could give 30-40%.

    Emphasize could. It could get more if they added any bits for extra superscalar execution.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So pay more cash now, and for a slower performing PC, but hope that the one that you get from AMD just might be "reversed hyperthreaded" in the future and if this gimmick works then potentially your CPU could be sped up to competitive performance levels via AMD if compared with an Intel Core2Duo...???
  11. Quote:
    You should read the patent PDF. There is an added instruction that allows each Core to read or write to the other's cache for instruction cleanup and joins.


    I don't know if it exisits either but Rahul Sood made a comment that made me believe that they do have it and from what I've read and the 8% larger IMC - the cache has shrunk - it could give 30-40%.

    Emphasize could. It could get more if they added any bits for extra superscalar execution.

    1. That PDF is about "speculative threading", and there is NO "REVERSE HYPERTHREADING" MENTIONED!
    2. Speculative threading:
    a) is not REVERSE HYPERTHREADING
    b) is old
    c) is not developed by AMD
    d) it can't give the amount of performance boost you are dreaming or FUDing about.
    3. Read the paper, just to learn that it can't be implemented on the K8 without architectural changes(direct communication between L1 caches). REV F HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL IMPROVEMENTS OVER REV E. REV F HAS ONLY DIFFERENT IMC, SO KEEP DREAMING.
    4. There is not single letter from AMD about implementation of "RHT" or speculative threading on any chip yet.
    5. There are a lot of words about it(Core Multiplexing) from Intel. Also there are option that enables/disables it on the I975BX and it is also possible that Core2 Duo allready supports CoreMultiplexing.
    6. You are full of BS and again you are trolling with insane amount of AMD bias.
  12. Even if reverse hyperthreading exists, it won't be of any real use to us at the moment.

    You haven't really indicated what you intend to use the system for so it's tough to make a really good recommendation.

    Core 2 seems to have the performance edge on paper but it is the first generation of that core, so could have a lot of bugs that haven't been spotted yet.

    AMD X2 is mature and is due a huge price drop on July 16th, so don't decide on anything until after that date.

    With so much work off loaded from CPU's today onto graphics cards, sound cards, and disk controllers it really doesn't make a huge difference what CPU you get. The differences in performance between them are small enough.

    If someone asked me what to get on a budget, I'd recommend a motherboard with as many features as possible, and any entry level CPU should suffice for day to day use (i.e. nForce 590 SLI motherboard + AMD X2 4200 + 1GB RAM, or Intel equivalent).

    I'm due to build a new system this month, and I'm choosing an AMD purely for the nForce 590 SLI (nForce and SLI isn't as reliable on Intel yet). I know Core will be faster overall, but I'm getting AMD for SLI not the CPU speed.

    If you've more specific questions or can give us a better idea on what you want the machine for then we can advise you better.
  13. I agree. If you upgrade your computer more often, go with a really high-end AM2 motherboard (perhaps the Asus M2N32-SLI) and a less expensive CPU (an X2 2800+ after the price drop).

    I'm not sure, but I think DDR3 will be supported on DDR2 RAM sockets, and the new CPUs will have the DDR3 memory controller (which is why AMDs go through fewer socket changes).

    If you don't upgrade often, go with a Core 2 when they're released, and overclock when you need more performance. Although, I think you'll be happier in the long run with an AM2 parts list.
  14. Simply put, Sempron's are the way of the future... :roll:
  15. Quote:
    I'm getting new computer and i don't know if i should get core duo 2 or AM2. I know Core Duo 2's are faster, but AM2's have reverse hyperthreading. I'm trying to stay within $500 for just memory, motherboard, and cpu. any suggestions would be appreciated.


    surely the vast amount of info and other threads obsessiing on this topic will provide you with ur answer
  16. Quote:
    It's just silly to ask such a question based on this 'key' feature. Why don't you wait, if the rumors are true, AMD will turn it on around the end of july.


    This cojures up a sci-fi image in my mind. AMD engineers, deep within the confines of the Central CPU Lab, wait for the countdown from the Supreme Commander. At the instant that Conroe hits the streets, the countdown begins and Sixteen Huge Levers are slowly pulled on the Master Control Panel. AM2 users suddenly find that their rigs are running almost 25% faster and simultaneously 18% cooler. Their cars get better gas mileage, they are better looking, are all the sudden are well hung and are getting laid much more often.

    I don't need more any of that so I'm going with Conroe on my next build.
  17. Quote:
    I agree. If you upgrade your computer more often, go with a really high-end AM2 motherboard (perhaps the Asus M2N32-SLI) and a less expensive CPU (an X2 2800+ after the price drop).

    What advantages sAM2 have comapred to LGA775?
    LGA775 with apropriate northbridge chipset i975/i965 are compatible with Pentium4, Pentium D, Celeron D and Core2 singlecore, dualcore and quadcore.
    sAM2 is compatible with the K8-DDR2 singlecore, dualcore and perhaps quadcore.

    Quote:
    I'm not sure, but I think DDR3 will be supported on DDR2 RAM sockets, and the new CPUs will have the DDR3 memory controller (which is why AMDs go through fewer socket changes).

    Well, you are wrong. DDR3 requires new MC and it is not compatible with DDR2. The MC is on-die, so forget about compatibility of DDR2/DDR3 on the same socket. Thats why we have s754, s939 and sAM2 for the same chips(K8). Also forget DDR3 on the K8. K8 suffers from high latency, not from low bandwidth. It needs reorganization of the DDR2 RAM subsystem in order to benefit from high latency memory. We've saw no performance boost with DDR2-800 CL4 compared to DDR-400 CL2. Why should we expect better perofrmance from more bandwidth and even more latency(DDR3 has higher latency than DDR2 & DDR).
    On the other side, this is not the case with Core2. The MC is not on-die, it is on the northbridge. So it is irelevant for the CPU, what kind of memory it will use. Also the memory latency is irelevant becouse Core2 has memory disamigutatiton and large L2 cache.

    Quote:
    If you don't upgrade often, go with a Core 2 when they're released, and overclock when you need more performance. Although, I think you'll be happier in the long run with an AM2 parts list.

    Upgrade often or not, Core2 is better, cheaper, very overclockable(much more than Rev E/F K8) and it can be upgraded using the rest of the hardware.
  18. gOJDO you are kind missing the point here.

    The recommendation was for MB + CPU + RAM combination, our suggestion was to go for as many features as possible. We are talking more about a system recommendation over a processor feature comparison.

    Compare the features of i975 vs nForce 590 SLI, and you will see that NVIDIA has really given the chipset market a huge shake up with the kinds of features they have added. Core 2 + i975 is more expensive then AMD X2 + nForce 590 and has less functionality. If I'm on a budget I want more for my money.

    Most would agree that Core 2 is a faster CPU (it would want to being brand new!!!), but AMD X2 with nForce 590 is a more feature complete system. Yes nForce will be available for Intel but the AMD implementation is much better.
  19. This whole thread is funny, because after this many years the Intel fanbois and AMD fanbois STILL duke it out at the first opportunity. Over the years both Intel and AMD have made some great processors, but it's impossible to get an unbiased take on what processor to buy from a group of fanbois.

    The ONLY way to make SURE you get what will work best for YOU is to decide what you expect from the machine and then research the heck out of it. This site is a pretty good source for info and usually comparisons of products in REAL WORLD comparisons, not the stuff the fanbois like to quote that they read from some white papers or Intel/AMD biased advertising.
  20. Quote:


    Hi Jaguarski,

    I agree there are no 985 mobo's but Intel has added a P965 mobo to their support page. Also, you are quite wrong about the availability of 975XBX motherboards. They are available, they have been available since at least the first of the year, also the -304 rev supports Conroe. That is what has been used for a lot of the pre-Conroe reviews that you have been seeing.



    I'm not sure what the details are with the 985 chipset.

    As I stated in my original post, Intel will be releasing a 965 chipset motherboard that will support conroe.

    I'm not aware of any stores that is currently selling a 975XBX mobo. I think 975XBX were only shown off to the public sometime in May 2006.

    As for 975X rev. 304, I didn't mention it because in general if you buy a 975X mobo now, there's no guarantee that it will be rev. 304
  21. Quote:
    You should read the patent PDF. There is an added instruction that allows each Core to read or write to the other's cache for instruction cleanup and joins.


    I don't know if it exisits either but Rahul Sood made a comment that made me believe that they do have it and from what I've read and the 8% larger IMC - the cache has shrunk - it could give 30-40%.

    Emphasize could. It could get more if they added any bits for extra superscalar execution.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So pay more cash now, and for a slower performing PC, but hope that the one that you get from AMD just might be "reversed hyperthreaded" in the future and if this gimmick works then potentially your CPU could be sped up to competitive performance levels via AMD if compared with an Intel Core2Duo...???


    No AM2 is plenty fast enough for anything anyone wants to do with it. And if Rahul Sood is right there will be yield problems on Core 2 so they may not appear in retail until Oct/Nov.
  22. sharikaboom = right is not a possible equation, no matter what science you take (choose any kind of science you like, everything comes down to that sharikaboom cant be right).
  23. Quote:


    Hi Jaguarski,

    I agree there are no 985 mobo's but Intel has added a P965 mobo to their support page. Also, you are quite wrong about the availability of 975XBX motherboards. They are available, they have been available since at least the first of the year, also the -304 rev supports Conroe. That is what has been used for a lot of the pre-Conroe reviews that you have been seeing.



    I'm not sure what the details are with the 985 chipset.

    As I stated in my original post, Intel will be releasing a 965 chipset motherboard that will support conroe.

    I'm not aware of any stores that is currently selling a 975XBX mobo. I think 975XBX were only shown off to the public sometime in May 2006.

    As for 975X rev. 304, I didn't mention it because in general if you buy a 975X mobo now, there's no guarantee that it will be rev. 304

    Here is the link to Intel's support page for the 975XBX motherboard.

    http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d975xbx/

    the 975X mobo is the same as the 975XBX you just left out the BX on the end.

    if you look at the box the motherboard comes in it will have a label on it. The label will have a line starting with AA following by Dxxxxx-xxx. The -xxx is the board revision level. If the motherboard box has the -304 or greater then you have a 975XBX motherboard that supports all of the Conroe processors. And apparently from the Xtremesystems.org forums Coolaler who used a 975XBX to break the 10 second barrier with SuperPI is also able to boot to a Kentsfield Engineering sample processor.
  24. Quote:
    You should read the patent PDF. There is an added instruction that allows each Core to read or write to the other's cache for instruction cleanup and joins.


    I don't know if it exisits either but Rahul Sood made a comment that made me believe that they do have it and from what I've read and the 8% larger IMC - the cache has shrunk - it could give 30-40%.

    Emphasize could. It could get more if they added any bits for extra superscalar execution.


    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So pay more cash now, and for a slower performing PC, but hope that the one that you get from AMD just might be "reversed hyperthreaded" in the future and if this gimmick works then potentially your CPU could be sped up to competitive performance levels via AMD if compared with an Intel Core2Duo...???


    No AM2 is plenty fast enough for anything anyone wants to do with it. And if Rahul Sood is right there will be yield problems on Core 2 so they may not appear in retail until Oct/Nov.

    At least you can dream! :wink:
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