Sequestration

[riser]

Thoughts on this?

Some people won't see the effects of this. Others will. Forcing a 20% cut across the board (Obama's choice) instead of agreeing on a small reduction of spending. The political process has nearly completely failed. The American people are not being left with any options. There will be two sides to this. One side of Americans will say it isn't a big deal and they'll work it out. The other side will be affected and upset. Then one day, both sides will unexpectedly truly demand change.

 

[johnsonma]

It was meant as a backdrop to get compromise. Unfortunately it failed and has now taken effect, although I believe it was never really meant to. Should be interesting and disconcerting to see what happens.

Too bad you guys chased off gamer, his input from the defense industry side of things would be interesting.

 

[sturm]

It's all political BS. This kind of crap just goes to show the Obama and the Dems will NEVER be serious about controlling spending or making any kind of cuts. If $85 Billion is going to cause this much havoc as Obama says, then there is no way in hell bigger cuts will ever go through. What makes me sick is that Obama, and other POTUS's, have no problem spending 100s of billions on BS spending, but yet wont cut 6 days worth of government spending.
The U.S. is in for a WORLD of hurt in the near future. I hate to see my country go to the shitter, but that is exactly where it's going.

 

[chunkymonster]

The whole thing is a bunch of smoke and mirrors and the Democrats and President are running around claiming that children and elderly will die in the streets as a result of these cuts.

The fact is the United States will spend more in 2013 than it did in 2012. In 2012, the government requested $2.627 Trillion and actually spent $3.796 Trillion having a budget deficit of $1.327 Trillion. For 2013, the government requested $2.902 Trillion with an estimated total expenditures of $3.803 Trillion, that still leaves a deficit of $901 Billion.

That's TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS! That's BILLIONS OF DOLLARS!

Let's not even get into the absurdity that the cuts are based on the estimated spending (money they think they will spend) over the next 10 years!

Let's put this into perspective. January of 2013, the american people saw their Social Security taxes raised from 4.2% to 6.2% as a result of the tax holiday ending. That equated to less take home pay and less money being dumped into the consumer economy. This increase hurt the middle class the hardest and it was the middle class who were sold a bill of goods about "doing their fair share" and "having skin in the game". That was a REAL tax increase, a REAL loss of take home pay and NOT this fake reduction of what they think they may spend over the next 10 years! The increase the tax payers took in the behind is nothing compared to a pretend reduction in government spending.

I am happy House Republicans seem to be calling Obama's sequester bluff; providing they don't reach some short term BS magic solution during today's meeting. As people wake up over the next few weeks and realize that this sequester has little to no impact on their daily lives, they will further realize that the government could stand to cut another $1.2 trillion over 10 years from the bloated sack of crap that is this government.

It seems to me that Obama and the Democrat lies, demagoguery, and class warfare has all come full circle. It is now time for Obama and the Democrats to put their big-boy-pants on and take this sequester right on the chin.

I am not gloating, I am just sick and tired of hearing from liberals, progressives, and the President that the friggin' world is coming to end because they won't have enough money to spend. I HAVEN"T HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO SPEND MY ENTIRE WORKING LIFE! It's time these sacks of crap to eat crow and live within their means like the rest of the american people!

Too bad you guys chased off gamer, his input from the defense industry side of things would be interesting.

This is a free and public forum. He has choosen to no longer participate. No one did anything to him.

 

[musical marv]

Thoughts on this?

Some people won't see the effects of this. Others will. Forcing a 20% cut across the board (Obama's choice) instead of agreeing on a small reduction of spending. The political process has nearly completely failed. The American people are not being left with any options. There will be two sides to this. One side of Americans will say it isn't a big deal and they'll work it out. The other side will be affected and upset. Then one day, both sides will unexpectedly truly demand change.

It is pure disgusting how adults on both parties cannot sit down and work things out the right way for the voter and their parties without this power play on both sides.Complete theatre.

 

[jsc]

Department of Education budget for 2013 is to be about $70 billion.

Kill DoEd. DoEd has had over 30 years to try to improve public education. They have been singularly unsuccessful.

Killing DoEd amounts to about 85% of the sequestered $85 billion.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Then quit giving away monies to various energy companies, that should take care of it all right there.

 

[riser]

Worst case it is a win-win for the left side. I was reading an article and it doesn't benefit the left to let people realize the 2% cuts can happen. Then people would realize we could shrink government and make it more efficient.

How to avoid that? Make it 20% across the board. Since we don't have a budget (Congress failings) we can't readily discriminate budget priorities. So we cut across the board 20%.

Realize this is a game the left is mastering.

When you're short on money, you budget and prioritize, right? Congress doesn't have a budget; These cuts are not being prioritized. This is a self constructed bad situation being used to spend more and create peaceful slavery.

 

[musical marv]

Department of Education budget for 2013 is to be about $70 billion.

Kill DoEd. DoEd has had over 30 years to try to improve public education. They have been singularly unsuccessful.

Killing DoEd amounts to about 85% of the sequestered $85 billion.

What about the waste less spending in defense with the senseless wars we have been through. Also foreign aid to much is being given to countries who do not appreciate it like Israel and others.Worry about ourselves first.

 

[aford10]

Both sides have valid points. They really just need to compromise, and do what's best for the country. There shouldn't be loopholes for these huge companies making billions of dollars in profits, and then skating during tax time. If anything, they should be taxed more. They don't make the country run, the middle class does. The middle class seems to be the ones taking it on the chin over and over, as we did again recently.

There also needs to be spending cuts. We all know that the government is blowing craploads of money in pointless areas. Countries like Pakistan and North Korea should never see a penny of aide from the US.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Define the loophole first, its not a bad thing always, most the time its not.
Loopholes drive a certain direction in markets, both investments and startups .
They also allow for things business wouldnt normally go into, which is what one side wants anyways, government investment into certain aspects of our economy.

Now, the businesses that get many loopholes with great return wont have the investments placed in them any longer, and this will weaken them, whether its against local or international businesses as well.

Our leaders have to actually know what theyre doing, and not vote for it now, and find out what its all about later, weve already seen the higher costs of such folly

 

[aford10]

Here's a few.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/25/8-ridiculous-tax-loopholes-how-companies-are-avoiding-the-tax-man.html

The big oil companies get too many tax breaks to list.

Some of the largest companies in the US, get breaks by not claiming earnings, by keeping the profits on their foreign books. They just never claim it here, so they don't have to pay the taxes here.

Not to mention, those companies can get breaks for moving expenses. That includes moving people and equipment out of the country. They get tax breaks for moving jobs out of the country.

That's a small example of some of the bs loopholes that big companies get. It's one reason why the job market is shrinking in the US, and the middle class is taking a beating.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Yep, and then we also have to find out why those loopholes were created in the first place.
Was a good at the time?
Is it now just a hindrance to our tax system?
Theres tons of policies that need to be struck off the list as well, some for shear redundancy, others because like above, theyve outlived their usefulness.

Do the oil companies get kickbacks to keep them from selling overseas?
Just a hypothetical, but a possibility as to why these loopholes exist for them, as today, thats a good idea possibly, since selling oil overseas benefits the oil company moreso than us possibly.
I can understand their hesitancy to do some of these things, but its what weve elected them to do

 

[riser]

I'm finding the tax argument old.

We don't have a major tax issue. We have a major spending issue. Taxes can be reformed, yes, spending must be revamped.

My very liberal friend lives in Michigan. He hates the new governor. The new gov balanced the budget, created a small surplus, and is now working on fixing Detriot. He's doing a good job, making tough decisions and didn't raise the tax rate.

My friend is pissed because instead of getting back $2500 from tax credits and all, he only got back $400. I pointed to all facebook posts about raising taxes... and laughed at him about it. The problem is fixed, he's upset he had to pay more, but he got exactly what he wanted.

Michigan cut a lot of spending too. They did it right. It hurt, but it was a one time deal. He was banking on getting money back because of the tax credits for owning a home and other things. Well, Michigan closed those 'loopholes.'

Reality is no one is going to be happy when this actually does get fixed. Bite the bullet and get it over with.

 

[johnsonma]

Cutting spending for a state is very different than for the Government as a whole. Look at the how the spending cuts are working out for other developed economies. Spending cuts by themselves will not fix anything. There has to be some sort of driving factor towards growth or it will become a self sustaining cycle of downward progression.

 

[musical marv]

Here's a few.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/25/8-ridiculous-tax-loopholes-how-companies-are-avoiding-the-tax-man.html

The big oil companies get too many tax breaks to list.

Some of the largest companies in the US, get breaks by not claiming earnings, by keeping the profits on their foreign books. They just never claim it here, so they don't have to pay the taxes here.

Not to mention, those companies can get breaks for moving expenses. That includes moving people and equipment out of the country. They get tax breaks for moving jobs out of the country.

That's a small example of some of the bs loopholes that big companies get. It's one reason why the job market is shrinking in the US, and the middle class is taking a beating.

Like Apple andGE getting away with murder with these not paying any taxes here. Pure disgusting!

 

[chunkymonster]

I wonder how much money could be saved over 10 years if Congress were to eliminate or reduce the amount of perks from their so called "public service".

You Only Wish You Could Live Like a Congressional Fat Cat

To summarize...remember, the below list is paid for by OUR TAX DOLLARS!

- $174,000 salary
- Free company car
- Free gas
- Free parking (even at airports)
- Free flights almost anywhere in the world
- Per diem travel allowance... up to $3,000 a trip
- A month’s paid vacation
- 3-day work-weeks
- Free membership to a top-flight gym
- Pension plan and 401K plan
- Full retirement benefits (including up to 44% of their six figure salaries) at age 62
- Free top of the line health insurance with 10 plans to choose from
- Fully covered – even with pre-existing condition

 

[aford10]

Yep, that's a pretty good place to start cutting, because that's ridiculous.

If they didn't get free gas, maybe they'd crack down more on the oil companies. How do you need a month of vacation, when you work 3 days a week, and accomplish nothing anyway?

 

[wanamingo]

Most congressman dont think they make too much, and many also have side jobs.

Their justification for the pay is the same justification for CEO bonuses at failing companies, you need the money to simply attract the right person, and keep them.

I think that is retarded. Cut their pay by a percentage, if they p|ss and moan then remove paid vacation days to compensate for their loss in revenue. It is a crazy idea to have them in charge of their own pay.....

 

[musical marv]

Yep, that's a pretty good place to start cutting, because that's ridiculous.

If they didn't get free gas, maybe they'd crack down more on the oil companies. How do you need a month of vacation, when you work 3 days a week, and accomplish nothing anyway?

Pure robbery on their part. It is disgusting what is going on there in the states now. Oil companies getting away with everything and no one cares really even Obama.

 

[aford10]

They need to trim the fat, and they need to start at the top. Those guys have been getting fat for a long time. The only problem is, those people at the top get to make choices for the rest of us, and for some odd reason, choose not to trim the fat in their own areas.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Heres ma symptom
How many times have they raised their salaries?
What is their supposed reasoning?
To get top flight people in.

I have a better incentive, instead of paying so well, perking everythin everywhere and retiring early as incentives, how about a good long freeze, and make the incentive to just to be able to represent us, this country, and have voice and capability to heal its ailments

 

[riser]

Congress is nothing more than a bunch of millionaires making decisions on how to get more money from non-millionaires.

 

[musical marv]

Congress is nothing more than a bunch of millionaires making decisions on how to get more money from non-millionaires.

amen brother you are so right.Nothing but parasites feeding off others.

 

[COLGeek]

Both sides have failed to allow this to happen. I have 3000 hard working Americans (who work for DoD, they vote, AND they pay taxes) who are going to take a 20% pay cut if the furloughs occur. What would you guys say to them?