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This is the typical rhetoric

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Anonymous
April 23, 2005 6:30:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and the
BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the majority of
the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that needs to be
cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your printhead clogs we will
take care of it. Try and collect.

Typical answer:


We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml plus
$6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you the other
information you are asking. Please call in for sales. 888-304-6125

Best Regards,

John, Customer Service
888-304-6125 ext 207
info@ims-ink.com <mailto:info@ims-ink.com>

More about : typical rhetoric

Anonymous
April 24, 2005 1:32:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I take it you are referring to third-party, non OEM ink manufacturers? This
comes as a surprise?

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kriae.2238$zX7.2175@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and the
> BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the majority of
> the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that needs to be
> cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your printhead clogs we will
> take care of it. Try and collect.
>
> Typical answer:
>
>
> We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml plus
> $6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you the other
> information you are asking. Please call in for sales. 888-304-6125
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John, Customer Service
> 888-304-6125 ext 207
> info@ims-ink.com <mailto:info@ims-ink.com>
April 24, 2005 2:50:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

> When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and the
> BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the majority of
> the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that needs to be
> cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your printhead clogs we will
> take care of it. Try and collect.
>
> Typical answer:
>
>
> We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml plus
> $6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you the other
> information you are asking. Please call in for sales. 888-304-6125
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John, Customer Service
> 888-304-6125 ext 207
> info@ims-ink.com <mailto:info@ims-ink.com>

So because they didn't tell you who their manufacturers are you label
them whores and say that is why it is a whores business that needs to be
cleaned up. You who have never used 3rd's tell that to this ng. What are
you thinking? You ever wonder why no one in this ng believes or respects
you or your groundless opinions?
You really are either one stupid idiot, or a glutton for punishment who
is determined to prove it with each and every one of your misguided,
factually incorrect post.
Obviously you work for someone else so you have no real idea about the
wholesale, retail or manufacturing business.
Let me fill you in.
Many times manufacturers of products will if possible, offer private
labeling deals unknown to the gp. It increases their profits and cuts
their losses. Retailers taking advantage of these private label deals
generally must do so under NDA's.
So you can ask all you want but they'll never tell.
I myself have been party to private label deals with identical retail
products (not ink) whose main client was high profile, retail. I have
been under constant NDA since '88.
I own an ad/marketing agency and have never had a printing problem
related to 3rd ink/carts. Never! I purchase a min of 80 carts per order.
I have Epson, Canon and HP printers. They never clog but they do wear
out. Mainly on the paper feed/pickup. I also do outside printing with
one of the largest and finest flat sheet printers in the world who are
open 24/7, have had continuous ink on paper for over 125 yrs and need
railroad cars to deliver their rolls of paper directly into their
printing facility.
I do know a little bit about which I speak.
Your continued psychobabble about 3rd's indicates a need for help as you
have fixated on this subject for quite some time and cannot accept the
fact that your opinion on the subject is simply not true.
Please get some help.
Life can be wonderful.
Frank
Related resources
April 24, 2005 9:37:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and the
>BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the majority of
>the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that needs to be
>cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your printhead clogs we will
>take care of it. Try and collect.
>
>Typical answer:
>
>
>We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml plus
>$6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you the other
>information you are asking. Please call in for sales. 888-304-6125
>
<snip>

I have been pondering this post and some others from the same person and would
like to offer some thoughts.

Firstly there are legitimate reasons why vendors may not advise who their
supplier is -
1. They may believe they have an edge in quality and/or cost of material and
don't want their competitors to know.
2. They may change suppliers from time to time after careful research into
quality and compatibility.
3. They may be annoyed by the way some people demand confidential information!
The business is not a whores business, it is a legitimate extremely large
industry that has been in existence for more than 2 decades, many of todays
compatible cartridge manufacturers/remanufacturers have been in business all of
that time and have tens of thousands of satisfied customers otherwise they
would no longer exist, the margins are very small indeed. The logic is
inescapable, at least to somebody with more than one brain cell. I don't know
many in this business that make guarantees about head clogging that are in any
way superior to the OEM guarantees (which don't really exist) - think about it!
There is no evidence at all other than the tenuous bits and pieces in this and
similar forums that non OEM ink causes more problems than OEM ink; these forums
are in no way a measure of the quality of inks OEM or otherwise, to understand
this needs three brain cells. Actual comparisons are done by manufacturers of
all persuasions who in most cases do detailed and scientific research into the
quality of their products, this includes listening to their customers some of
whom are giant corporations who are careful about the way they spend their
money (believe me they are!).

The word brand properly applies to anybody who makes something and sells it
under their own name, whether they be a large or small company and ink is by no
means the only constituent in a properly made or refilled cartridge, there are
many other factors including the container design, the filling process, the
sealing of the head/nozzle and the packaging (not the marketing, but the way
the cartridge is protected during its shelf life - this is absolutely critical
and difficult to achieve with some cartridges). I have seen more failed
cartridges from one particular OEM than from all of their refilling competitors
combined and they have a massive chunk of the market, so even they struggle!
Two other OEM's have struggled to achieve quality, one has made it and another
has a way to go. It is a hard industry but no complaints after all most of the
easy businesses are illegal!!!

The other thought I had is that it is oh so easy to be anonymously rude and
discourteous in news groups, clearly it needs someone of huge intellect to blag
an entire industry about which they know almost nothing. Printheads fail
sometimes, mostly they are recoverable. The causes are very well understood and
rarely have anything to do with ink quality unless the customer buys at the
bottom of the market (true of just about all industries right? Sorry that needs
five brain cells to understand!) - that is based on years of experience not
just an opinion based on one or two printer problems.

Most of the OEM's talk to each other in an attempt to keep the industry fair,
clearly they do not share all information with their competitors but these are
often formal meetings to set cross company standards (this is normal in many
industries). The same processes occur with compatible suppliers who have
objectives that include standardisation of quality (at least as good as OEM's),
fairness to customers, intelligent disposal of waste (ie zero dumping and no
polution) and other non-confidential common goals. Whores industry - I don't
think so.

It is my fervent wish that we can keep this ng available to those who want help
and for those who are willing to freely give it rather than a forum for the
opinionated few.

Have you notced that the people who offer answers to others requests for help
rarely if ever push their own company (assuming they have one), could it be
that they are honest, courteous and fair minded? (Brain cell number six needed
here).

Tony
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 11:22:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and the
>>BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the majority of
>>the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that needs to be
>>cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your printhead clogs we will
>>take care of it. Try and collect.
>>
>>Typical answer:
>>
>>
>>We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml plus
>>$6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you the other
>>information you are asking. Please call in for sales. 888-304-6125
>>
>>
>>
><snip>
>
>I have been pondering this post and some others from the same person and would
>like to offer some thoughts.
>
>Firstly there are legitimate reasons why vendors may not advise who their
>supplier is -
>1. They may believe they have an edge in quality and/or cost of material and
>don't want their competitors to know.
>
>

So they expect you to purchase an unknown because they do not want you
to know or be able to track the real quality of what they are selling.

>2. They may change suppliers from time to time after careful research into
>quality and compatibility.
>
>

That is one of the reasons that the OEMs have an advantage - Consistency.

>3. They may be annoyed by the way some people demand confidential information!
>
>

Bullshit. Go ask Toyota who makes the engine in their cars. In the
80's General Motors tried bullshit like this by putting Chevrolet
Engines in some Oldsmobile without disclosing this to the buyer. When
caught they were sued and lost.

>The business is not a whores business, it is a legitimate extremely large
>industry that has been in existence for more than 2 decades, many of todays
>compatible cartridge manufacturers/remanufacturers have been in business all of
>that time and have tens of thousands of satisfied customers otherwise they
>would no longer exist, the margins are very small indeed.
>

Many exist because of the turnover of people. There are a couple of ink
formulators that may be OK. Unfortunately this ink is sold under a
bunch of labels and not adequately disclosed. Some of the hawkers will
tell you if you call and ask because they do not want to loose a
potential customer but they do not disclose this on their website. All
they do is say buy buy buy and here is the price and say how compatible
it is but they do not adequately describe what you are getting. I
resent this unprofessional sales tactics and that is why I think of then
as whores.

>The logic is
>inescapable, at least to somebody with more than one brain cell.
>

And I take it you think you are above an amoeba.

>I don't know
>many in this business that make guarantees about head clogging that are in any
>way superior to the OEM guarantees (which don't really exist) - think about it!
>There is no evidence at all other than the tenuous bits and pieces in this and
>similar forums that non OEM ink causes more problems than OEM ink;
>

Do the math. More people who report head clogs admit they use non OEM
inks. Sure some use the OEM inks and get clogged heads but the vast
majority on this NG say they are using after market inks. Also when
asked they do not know the
BRAND they are using. The best they can say is either the label or the
source.

>these forums
>are in no way a measure of the quality of inks OEM or otherwise, to understand
>this needs three brain cells. Actual comparisons are done by manufacturers of
>all persuasions who in most cases do detailed and scientific research into the
>quality of their products, this includes listening to their customers some of
>whom are giant corporations who are careful about the way they spend their
>money (believe me they are!).
>
>

PCWORLD did a review on after market inks and concluded that they caused
more problems than OEM and recommended not to use them. Yes, I know
they take advertising from Canon, HP, and Epson.

>The word brand properly applies to anybody who makes something and sells it
>under their own name,
>

That is the definition of a private label or label. It is not a BRAND.

>whether they be a large or small company and ink is by no
>means the only constituent in a properly made or refilled cartridge, there are
>many other factors including the container design, the filling process, the
>sealing of the head/nozzle and the packaging (not the marketing, but the way
>the cartridge is protected during its shelf life - this is absolutely critical
>and difficult to achieve with some cartridges). I have seen more failed
>cartridges from one particular OEM than from all of their refilling competitors
>combined and they have a massive chunk of the market, so even they struggle!
>Two other OEM's have struggled to achieve quality, one has made it and another
>has a way to go. It is a hard industry but no complaints after all most of the
>easy businesses are illegal!!!
>
>The other thought I had is that it is oh so easy to be anonymously rude and
>discourteous in news groups, clearly it needs someone of huge intellect to blag
>an entire industry about which they know almost nothing. Printheads fail
>sometimes, mostly they are recoverable. The causes are very well understood and
>rarely have anything to do with ink quality unless the customer buys at the
>bottom of the market (true of just about all industries right? Sorry that needs
>five brain cells to understand!) - that is based on years of experience not
>just an opinion based on one or two printer problems.
>
>

Most of the head clogs involve the drying of ink in the print head.
Most of the instances of this occurs when the person was not using OEM
ink. I said most of the instances not all. And sure some of them use
bottom of the barrel cheap o inks but not all. And their may be one or
two formulators that produce a reasonable product but unfortunately they
do not package and brand their stuff and sell them through all marketing
channels. That is a shame.

>Most of the OEM's talk to each other in an attempt to keep the industry fair,
>clearly they do not share all information with their competitors but these are
>often formal meetings to set cross company standards (this is normal in many
>industries).
>
This borders against anti trust laws.

> The same processes occur with compatible suppliers who have
>objectives that include standardisation of quality (at least as good as OEM's),
> fairness to customers, intelligent disposal of waste (ie zero dumping and no
>polution) and other non-confidential common goals. Whores industry - I don't
>think so.
>
>It is my fervent wish that we can keep this ng available to those who want help
>and for those who are willing to freely give it rather than a forum for the
>opinionated few.
>
>Have you notced that the people who offer answers to others requests for help
>rarely if ever push their own company (assuming they have one), could it be
>that they are honest, courteous and fair minded? (Brain cell number six needed
>here).
>
>

I am not asking for any renumeration for setting you straight. Think
about it.

>Tony
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 11:25:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>> When asked who the manufacturer/formulator of what they sells is and
>> the BRAND that they sell this is the typical response from the
>> majority of the hawkers. That is why it is a whores business that
>> needs to be cleaned up. Oh yet it is compatible and if your
>> printhead clogs we will take care of it. Try and collect.
>>
>> Typical answer:
>>
>>
>> We sell the ink bottles individually, the price is $3.95 for 60 ml
>> plus $6.50 shipping and handling. Unfortunately, I cannot give you
>> the other information you are asking. Please call in for sales.
>> 888-304-6125
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> John, Customer Service
>> 888-304-6125 ext 207
>> info@ims-ink.com <mailto:info@ims-ink.com>
>
>
> So because they didn't tell you who their manufacturers are you label
> them whores and say that is why it is a whores business that needs to
> be cleaned up. You who have never used 3rd's tell that to this ng.
> What are you thinking? You ever wonder why no one in this ng believes
> or respects you or your groundless opinions?
> You really are either one stupid idiot, or a glutton for punishment
> who is determined to prove it with each and every one of your
> misguided, factually incorrect post.
> Obviously you work for someone else so you have no real idea about the
> wholesale, retail or manufacturing business.
> Let me fill you in.


You are such a jerk. Go play in the traffic.

> Many times manufacturers of products will if possible, offer private
> labeling deals unknown to the gp. It increases their profits and cuts
> their losses. Retailers taking advantage of these private label deals
> generally must do so under NDA's.
> So you can ask all you want but they'll never tell.
> I myself have been party to private label deals with identical retail
> products (not ink) whose main client was high profile, retail. I have
> been under constant NDA since '88.


If you cannot see through the whores tactics then you are real stupid.

> I own an ad/marketing agency and have never had a printing problem
> related to 3rd ink/carts. Never! I purchase a min of 80 carts per
> order. I have Epson, Canon and HP printers. They never clog but they
> do wear out. Mainly on the paper feed/pickup. I also do outside
> printing with one of the largest and finest flat sheet printers in the
> world who are open 24/7, have had continuous ink on paper for over 125
> yrs and need railroad cars to deliver their rolls of paper directly
> into their printing facility.
> I do know a little bit about which I speak.
> Your continued psychobabble about 3rd's indicates a need for help as
> you have fixated on this subject for quite some time and cannot accept
> the fact that your opinion on the subject is simply not true.
> Please get some help.
> Life can be wonderful.
> Frank
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 12:22:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

> I have been pondering this post and some others from the same person
> and would like to offer some thoughts.
>
8<
> Tony


What a refreshingly sensible analysis and opinion, tinged with a delightful
smidgen of ire. I enjoyed reading that very much, and thank you for going to
so much trouble over it. Let's hope just one iota of it sinks in somewhere,
but I for one shan't hold my breath. :-(
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 12:37:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
>
> You are such a jerk. Go play in the traffic.
>
>
>
> If you cannot see through the whores tactics then you are real stupid.
>


There you go. If you can't win the argument, then denigrate the person
instead. Sign of a sure loser.
April 24, 2005 12:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Siggy wrote:
> measekite wrote:
>
>
>>
>>You are such a jerk. Go play in the traffic.
>>
>>
>>
>>If you cannot see through the whores tactics then you are real stupid.
>>
>
>
>
> There you go. If you can't win the argument, then denigrate the person
> instead. Sign of a sure loser.
>
>
He proves it with his every post. I did break one cardinal rule: never
wise up a fool.
Sorry.
Frank
April 24, 2005 12:41:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Siggy" <thesignatory@thisblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Tony wrote:
>
>> I have been pondering this post and some others from the same person
>> and would like to offer some thoughts.
>>
>8<
>> Tony
>
>
>What a refreshingly sensible analysis and opinion, tinged with a delightful
>smidgen of ire. I enjoyed reading that very much, and thank you for going to
>so much trouble over it. Let's hope just one iota of it sinks in somewhere,
>but I for one shan't hold my breath. :-(
>
Thank you Siggy, I wasn't sure it was worth the effort but once I had started
it was hard to stop!!!
Please don't hold your breath, we need to retain balanced people on this earth.
Tony
April 24, 2005 3:22:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I was going to filter measekite out of the newsgroup but it is fun to read
such ill-informed statements! I belong to a couple of forums,and moderate
one.We have been asked about our strict policies on foul lanluage,and use
some of his posts to demonstrate.He would never be allowed to join our
forums,we screen our members,and they need at least 5 refs.If you check my
posts here,or any of the forums,you will see I never resort to his type of
language.I just am happy as he does this more and more,everyone will know
what a fraud he is!Some expert,doesn't print photos,never tried after market
inks,tried maybe 3 different papers,but he knows everything printer related!
"Frank" <fb@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:7ROae.18087$%c1.11148@fed1read05...
> Siggy wrote:
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>You are such a jerk. Go play in the traffic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If you cannot see through the whores tactics then you are real stupid.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There you go. If you can't win the argument, then denigrate the person
>> instead. Sign of a sure loser.
>>
>>
> He proves it with his every post. I did break one cardinal rule: never
> wise up a fool.
> Sorry.
> Frank
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 8:47:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Douglas wrote:

>I was going to filter measekite out of the newsgroup but it is fun to read
>such WELL ill-informed statements! I belong to a couple of forums,and moderate
>one.We have been asked about our strict policies on foul lanluage,and use
>some of his posts to demonstrate.He would never be allowed to join our
>forums,we screen our members,and they need at least 5 refs.If you check my
>posts here,or any of the forums,you will see I never resort to his type of
>language.I just am happy as he does this more and more,everyone will know
>what a fraud he is!Some expert,doesn't print photos,never tried after market
>inks,tried maybe 3 different papers,but he knows everything printer related!
>
>
But my print head is not clogged like your head.

>"Frank" <fb@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:7ROae.18087$%c1.11148@fed1read05...
>
>
>>Siggy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are such a jerk. Go play in the traffic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If you cannot see through the whores tactics then you are real stupid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>There you go. If you can't win the argument, then denigrate the person
>>>instead. Sign of a sure loser.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>He proves it with his every post. I did break one cardinal rule: never
>>wise up a fool.
>>Sorry.
>>Frank
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
April 25, 2005 2:20:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:


> Perhaps even a green plant, maybe he should change his handle to Highasakite!!!
> Sorry couldn't resist the uncharitable thought.
> Tony

:-)
Frank
April 25, 2005 3:03:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:


> It was refreshing that there is someone else on this NG who can think
> for themselves. Maybe a true professional than an amateur
> experimenter. I have seen tons of you guys screwing with your computers
> and software and spending hours of time trying to figure out the mess
> you made and talking a good game.
>
> If some company had a top notch after market ink product you would see
> it in all of the reputable stores and sold on-line by all of the camera
> stores that sell printers.

Again you display a total lack of knowledge about how marketing and
retailing works.
My advice: don't quit your day job.
Frank
April 25, 2005 3:11:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:


> And you should not think it be sad that people who read my writings are
> scared off because someone had the balls to tell them the truth.
>
> And the MIS labeled ink you are using may be OK and if you want to buy a
> black box product that is fine but people should know what it is. I do
> not think I have said anything bad about inksupply, your vendor other
> than they refuse to publicize on their website exactly what they are
> selling. And when you ask them what is in their carts they tell you it
> is not MIS (a label they attach to whatever they are selling in bulk)
> but something else they have filled in someone's carts.

You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and hit you upside your stupid
head!
You are simply spreading lies about something (3rd's) that you have,
admittedly, no real world experience with which to share with anyone in
this ng.
And that makes you a ball less moron because you can't admit you're wrong.
Get a life!
Frank
Anonymous
April 25, 2005 5:59:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:41:14 GMT, "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>What is really sad about Measekite's contiual rant against the aftermarket
>ink vendors is that he takes every opportunity to answer honest questions
>people pose on this NG with his distorted responsed
<snip>

Even though I only lurk here, and I already learnt to avoid
Measikite's postings, I was thinking that someone would have to
correct his misinformation for the benefit of new posters looking for
information. I am glad to see that some are willing to do it.

Geo
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 1:47:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

you all calm down please.
April 26, 2005 3:32:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
> See, you have product that is of the Lexmark BRAND and sold under the
> DELL LABEL. Now I even think a high school student can understand
> that. :-X
>

That was difficult but we are making progress. You now have a working
comprehension of the difference between a brand and a label.
Very good.
Mommy will now give you an additional cookie.
Frank
April 26, 2005 11:23:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Sorry Frank
Did it again, must get a better newsreader.
Best wishes.
Tony


Frank <fb@nospam.com> wrote:
>measekite wrote:
>
>>
>> See, you have product that is of the Lexmark BRAND and sold under the
>> DELL LABEL. Now I even think a high school student can understand
>> that. :-X
>>
>
>That was difficult but we are making progress. You now have a working
>comprehension of the difference between a brand and a label.
>Very good.
>Mommy will now give you an additional cookie.
>Frank
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 5:49:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>> See, you have product that is of the Lexmark BRAND and sold under the
>> DELL LABEL. Now I even think a high school student can understand
>> that. :-X
>>
>
> That was difficult but we are making progress. You now have a working
> comprehension of the difference between a brand and a label.
> Very good.
> Mommy will now give you an additional cookie.
> Frank


I think you need to bend over for Daddy!

And then pucker up you chapped lips.
!