7900gt-x1800:x1900 series

[bluntside]

Oy, The Nvidia and Ati share thier shares in Benchies.
You all know how thr ati cards tend to have the option of enabling AA AS and utilize sm3.0 at the same time. What about lets say the 7900gt, is there a specific reason as to why nvidia does not support this option??
I also know that the ati cards are better in Image quality than the Nvidia chips. I have a EVGA 7900gt and I use it for gaming, but will are the positives between with one manufacturer or the other??
Is it posslible to do mods to the 7900gt to enable the same features that the x1800 has?? I mean in IQ and AA while using sm 3.0??
I know that you wont do anything about the shader models cuz its all done by the manufaturer.

 

[RichPLS]

No it is not possible, since it is hardware limited by nVidia... and I know of no way around it...
Basically, ATI does have the upper hand currently...

 

[yourmothersanastronaut]

Oy, The Nvidia and Ati share thier shares in Benchies.
You all know how thr ati cards tend to have the option of enabling AA AS and utilize sm3.0 at the same time.

You mean AA and HDR. Shader Model 3.0 is not the same as HDR. It is a method of rendering the shading and gradients on the screen. HDR is a new technology that increases the spectrum of light that the card can display, which results in smoother and more accurate lighting. Actually, there are ways for current nVidia cards to do both at the same time, but each application does it in its own way. Games like HL2: LC and Oblivion can turn HDR on and off, while most other games that incorporate it do so without telling you.

HDR is implemented in the lines of code that tell the game how to render the things you see. If a certain light source implements HDR, you can tell by the way it looks. It's just an effect.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Oy, The Nvidia and Ati share thier shares in Benchies.
You all know how thr ati cards tend to have the option of enabling AA AS and utilize sm3.0 at the same time.

It actually has nothing to do with SM3.0.

The OpenEXR style FP16HDR+AA issue you're talking about is FP16blending. It is not a requirement of SM3.0, just a supported feaure.

What about lets say the 7900gt, is there a specific reason as to why nvidia does not support this option??

Because both FP16 belnding and AA are applied in the ROPs for the GF6 & 7 series, and they cannot render in parralle or immmediate sequence without going back through again. So while technically the GF7 series could do FP16HDR followed by MSAA, it would be both ponderously slow, and would actually only be doing AA on the int8 resultants, whereas the ATi X1K series would be FP16 throughout.

Is it posslible to do mods to the 7900gt to enable the same features that the x1800 has??

No, NEVER it's a hardware limitation; and far too many people (especially reviewers) gave people hop by saying 'possibly nV will enable this later with newer drivers. This gave them false hope (that's what happens when people come to expect that). What nV and developers could do is do a multi-loop (different from multi-pass) implementation of HDR followed by AA, which would probably achieve the same image quality or at the very least very VERY close, however it would be ponderously slow in comparison to the ATi cards.

For now I think nV is just trying to avoid the issue until theit G80 comes out, somewhat in the way SM3.0 wasn't as big a deal during the X800/GF6800 generation, OpenEXR+AA isn't a big deal now either, but of course to people looking long enough into the future or playing specifically the games that can benifit then it's obviously a consideration.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

HDR is a new technology that increases the spectrum of light that the card can display,

It's far from new, and nV was promoting OpenEXR HDR last generation, they seem quiet about it now, wonder why? :mrgreen:

which results in smoother and more accurate lighting.

It's more than that and can acutally be quite harsh compared to not having it enabled. The most impressive thing IMO, especially with Oblivion's implemntation, is the dynamic part, and how well effect can be simulated.

Actually, there are ways for current nVidia cards to do both at the same time, but each application does it in its own way.

There is absolutely NO WAY for nV to implement full FP16 HDR+AA throughout with their current models. And it's even questionable if thatwill change in the G80, but I would hope so. Because IMO it's gaining accpetance, especially for games like Oblivion, and the amount of new games thet will be moving beyond integer based HDR in the coming months/years.

Games like HL2: LC and Oblivion can turn HDR on and off, while most other games that incorporate it do so without telling you.

Actually the two you've listed use completely different methods of implementing HDR, one is more integer based (HL2) and one is strictly FP16 (Oblivion). I also haven't seen a game that doesn't allow you to control HDR.

HDR is implemented in the lines of code that tell the game how to render the things you see. If a certain light source implements HDR, you can tell by the way it looks. It's just an effect.

It's not just an effect (unless you reduce everything to being 'an effect'), it requires a little more than that, especially depending on the method you use, and the conditions you are trying to emulate.

Is it pivitol to the game, no, but then again is parallax offsetmapping or even AA/AF ?

 

[Heyyou27]

Actually as seen in Age of Empires III, the work around does perform pretty well, but I believe the extra work required is still a big negative.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah I doubt there'd be errors if nV did run dual loop, seems more like theoretical things that at best would appear only slightly off-colour (seriously doubt we could easily tell).

However, what I did learn from our previous disucssions, and all the information that has come out since Oblivion (especially Chuck patch discussion), is that AOE3 is not full standardized OpenEXRHDR, it's a hybrid, not quite like HL2:LC/E1, but more like that used for FartCry which also is not full FP16 OpenEXR-HDR throughout.

Only Oblivion is the full implementation (and likely one of the reasons it works/looks so good). It's all a matter of degrees IMO, since I can't use HDR in Oblivion on my own rig (although my friend uses it on my old rig), yet I'm quite happy with enhanced Bloom (not the fake HDR patch).

I still think it (FP16HDR+AA) is somewhat of a checkbox feature, but it is nice if you can do it.