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I need rediculous amount of wattage.

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July 7, 2006 2:27:11 AM

Okay my 600 watt psu died. I was expecting this cause my system used more than 600 watts. I have an 840, 2 7800GTX, 3 hard drives, 2 media, floppy drive, card reader, temp sensors, fan controller, cathode lightings, black lights, 5 led fans, sound card, tuner card, 2 separate water cooling systems and 4 usb devices. My psu was 8 months old and I could get a replacement for its warranty but it would still died out sooner or later.

Okay I don't know exactly how much wattage does my rig needs to run smooth. So my options would be to buy a 750-800 watt psu or go dual psu since I can get a replacement and then just get another one.

1. Which one would be better of the two option?

2. If I were to get a single psu of 750-800 watts what would be the best one to get? Budget of $150-$250.

3. If I were to get a dual psu set-up then could someone give a hint how to do it? Since Im getting a replacement for my 600 watt psu which I would use for my system and then I'll get another 300 watt to my 2 separate water cooling kits.

:) 
July 7, 2006 2:56:26 AM

Curious... what kind of PSU was it? I'm not running as much gear as you, but it would be nice to know. I'm using a Seasonic 600 Watt.
July 7, 2006 3:17:46 AM

It's an Aspire AS600 psu. I have used them for my past two rigs and to this day it's still running but my 600 watt just could not keep up with my current SLI gaming rig's appetite. Yeah it's not the best psu makers but it's a decent psu. I got it first for my system before upgrades which only consist of basic gaming components and a single 7800GT. Then I started upgrading it to become a high end SLI gaming rig and so started the psu delima.

This is my rig,

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_rotm_june06.html
Related resources
July 7, 2006 3:23:52 AM

Did it die becuase a cap in it exploded?
If not you may be drawing alot of "start up" power while the HD's are getting up to speed.

Allow the gfx cards 10 amps each (more than they use).

Allow the HD's 9 amps each (for when they spin up,after that they use about 3 amps each).

I use Optrons and go overkill and allow them 10 amps.

Allow 8 amps for 4GB of ram (more than it needs).

Try putting all your fans and lites on a 2nd psu...some cheap thing is fine.
July 7, 2006 3:24:52 AM

I am using a Silverstone SST-ST75ZF 750 for my system for which, I believe, has more energy demands than yours and should show how dependable the power supply is for me. It has 4 good rails at 18amps each and has been working for me flawlessly for the past 2 months.

Presler 955 3.46
Abit AW8D
2GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 800
XFX 7900 GTX Extreme
X-Fi Fatality
(2) DL-DVD Burners
(2) WD 36 Raptos in Raid 0
Maxtor 300GB Sata
52-in-1 card reader
Floppy Drive
Dual pump watercooling system (2) Swiftech 655's in a dual parallel loop - My CPU is cooled by a peltier cooler in a seperate loop, the other loop is for northbridge, GPU and HDD waterblocks
(2) White LED 120 fans
dual cold cathode white light 12 inch setup
(eight) 120mm fans mounted on 2 dual 120 rads (externally) - each has 4 fans apiece in a "push-pull" setup
July 7, 2006 3:44:44 AM

A psu that fits your budget requirement for 750-800 wt would probably be a Silverstone SST-ST75ZF for $209.99 from Newegg. There is also a Coolmax CTG 850 for $239.95 with the $50 mail in rebate, which might work out better for you, giving more room for expansion later.

I've got an Aspire 680 wt that keeps my machine going, but its on the edge powerwise. If I ever decide to go SLI/Crossfire, it wouldn't keep up. I've also heard both good and bad about Aspire psu's. I've had two now and neither have failed or caused any type of problem.

Using a dual psu setup is bear, in my opinion. You either have to try to squeeze the second into the case, and hope the added heat and blockage doesn't cause problems, or mount it externally. Offhand, I'd go for a single psu if only using an internal mount. If you mount a second psu externally, then the 300 wt should work fine. You can cut a couple holes in one of the knock out slots in the back of the computer and run the power lines through those to your water coolers.
July 7, 2006 3:51:22 AM

There are now psus with quad 12v rails each with 18Amps

Silverstone makes em up to about 750 wats

I have found the 600wat ones surfice for my needs

P5N32 SLI Deluxe
P4 960
XMS Pro (2x1 Gb)
Swiftec water pump 12v
9 Panflo fans 120mm
2 UV lights
DVD rom
WD raptor 150Gb
7900GT SLI
July 7, 2006 3:54:31 AM

You could be really gross and wait for the Enermax Galaxy - it's got 5 12v rails, puts out 1000watts and is modular.
July 7, 2006 4:13:32 AM



I'll second the vote for the big OCZ. I have one and it is awesome. I also have the mushkin and since it has an excellent MIR now, I'd recommend it over the OCZ for your rig. The auto-bridge feature can help the unit cover the HD spin-up current demand mentioned by ZOdude. The mushkin has high quality modular cables and it is surprisingly quiet considering that it has two 8cm fans. My limited experience with the Coolmax was not too impressive. Maybe I got a dud.
July 7, 2006 4:22:56 AM

I don't know if it blow a cap, but all it did is just one day I pushed the botton and it didn't turn on. I check the power connections to make sure it's all connected and I have verified the psu was blown by doing the power jump (green and black) and it didn't turn on. So Im now in the process of turning it in for its warranty and get a new one.
July 7, 2006 4:42:49 AM

Quote:
You could be really gross and wait for the Enermax Galaxy - it's got 5 12v rails, puts out 1000watts and is modular.


and pay 500 dollars.
July 7, 2006 4:44:09 AM

I have similar specs except only one pump and i over clock, my old enermax 600w couldn't handle it either so I also have the seasonic 750w in my rig... rock solid so far.

If I could have afforded it I would have gotten the PC P&C 1kw but I was like you, if this didn't do it I was going to go dual psu. If you want to use dual I did a lot of research into it just in case... pm me.
July 7, 2006 4:55:01 AM

Guys I appreciate for all your quick inputs and I have looked at Silverstone, OCZ and Coolmax and it all looking pretty good. The Coolmax though is a bit high for my budget but I'm sure it's a high quality PSU.

But let say if I were to do the dual psu set-up. I would use the 600 watt replacement psu for the system and then I'd go get another 300 watt psu for the 2 water cooling kit. My question is how would I do this and set up the secondary psu. I think I can place my secondary psu inside the case but is there any (Im sure) adaptor/extension cable and switch for this matter? I could really use help in this one for this is my low-budget solution on this wattage problem.

If this is not a good idea then I'll just get the single psu solution, more likely the Silverstone or the OCZ. :) 
July 7, 2006 5:06:32 AM

Yeah those 1Kw psu are so expensive. No thanks.
July 7, 2006 5:42:39 AM

Quote:
It's an Aspire AS600 psu. I have used them for my past two rigs and to this day it's still running but my 600 watt just could not keep up with my current SLI gaming rig's appetite. Yeah it's not the best psu makers but it's a decent psu. I got it first for my system before upgrades which only consist of basic gaming components and a single 7800GT. Then I started upgrading it to become a high end SLI gaming rig and so started the psu delima.

This is my rig,

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_rotm_june06.html


Wow. I expected to see Pam Anderson or somethin'.
July 7, 2006 6:06:39 AM



I'll second the vote for the big OCZ. I have one and it is awesome. I also have the mushkin and since it has an excellent MIR now, I'd recommend it over the OCZ for your rig. The auto-bridge feature can help the unit cover the HD spin-up current demand mentioned by ZOdude. The mushkin has high quality modular cables and it is surprisingly quiet considering that it has two 8cm fans. My limited experience with the Coolmax was not too impressive. Maybe I got a dud.

Yeah I say get the OCZ 700W I want one trying to swap my S12 for one.
July 7, 2006 6:25:08 AM

Could you be overloading one of your rails. You have enough juice,
but it's not balance?
July 7, 2006 12:05:50 PM

Quote:
Could you be overloading one of your rails. You have enough juice, but it's not balance?


This problem screams: mushkin!
July 7, 2006 12:10:41 PM

Quote:
But let say if I were to do the dual psu set-up. I would use the 600 watt replacement psu for the system and then I'd go get another 300 watt psu for the 2 water cooling kit. My question is how would I do this and set up the secondary psu. I think I can place my secondary psu inside the case but is there any (Im sure) adaptor/extension cable and switch for this matter? I could really use help in this one for this is my low-budget solution on this wattage problem.


You can safely wire it up yourself. I've got a link somewhere around here about how to set it up but I'm in a rush to get to work and won't be able to search it out right now. I know I found it by Googling something like "PS dual power supply" or some such thing and found it on a forum, maybe overclockers.com. I'll try to remember to find it later. I've also seen threads about setup details right here on Tom's recently, so do some searching here too.
July 7, 2006 3:05:43 PM

Quote:
Could you be overloading one of your rails. You have enough juice, but it's not balance?


This problem screams: mushkin!

the mushkin is pricey for 650w tho :
July 7, 2006 3:58:14 PM

You may want to check out this article regarding seperate power supplies for high power Graphics cards.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2770

I suspect that the Graphic Cards are the power hogs of your system. If you elect to go dual power supplies, I think that you would get better ROI by powering them with the secondary PS. I can't imagine the water cooling rigs consuming nearly as much power. Isolating them to the secondary PS wiould be of little benefit.
July 7, 2006 4:17:26 PM

Definitely the graphics cards are the hogs, dual 7800gtx's pull almost 200w by themselves. I've read in a lot of forums that it's not a good idea to run anything that plugs into the motherboard with separate psu's due to different voltages. This may or may not be true but 600w will run the cpu, two video cards and the motherboard easily, it's the hdd's, fans, lights and pumps that are pushing him over the edge and these are the ones I'd put on the secondary psu.
July 7, 2006 4:34:38 PM

The Fortron Epsilon 700watt is a very robust stable PSU, and it is priced reasonably considering its quality.
July 7, 2006 4:35:50 PM

now if your complaining about 500 being to much the same powersupply in canada is around $850 bucks canadian thats 765 bucks US. :( 

my bad it's back down to a more reasonable price 530 bucks :D 
July 7, 2006 4:46:33 PM

Quote:
The Fortron Epsilon 700watt is a very robust stable PSU, and it is priced reasonably considering its quality.


yes, agreed there.

About the PC P&C. 500 dollars is too much.
July 7, 2006 5:12:39 PM

Yes, it is too much. But it's THE PSU. A beast like nothing else.
"Probably it's going to be the last PSU you'll ever buy." - Computer Power User Magazine

EDIT: And like the title says, the guy needs "ridiculous amounts of wattage", and the PC P&C delivers...
July 7, 2006 5:17:23 PM

Quote:
Yes, it is too much. But it's THE PSU. A beast like nothing else.
"Probably it's going to be the last PSU you'll ever buy." - Computer Power User Magazine

EDIT: And like the title says, the guy needs "ridiculous amounts of wattage", and the PC P&C delivers...


the thing is he come off a shafty ass Aspire PSU. Fortron PSU should be fine fo r him.
July 7, 2006 5:46:04 PM

The Fortron Source Epsilon 700W would carry the load for you.
July 7, 2006 6:16:43 PM

FYI if you are not familar with Crash... He is one of the most thourough technicians in this forum, and also a highly respected tech journalist in online magazines. One Tom's is lucky to have as a member, his opinion is golden! :wink:
July 7, 2006 6:20:15 PM

Quote:
FYI if you are not familar with Crash... He is one of the most thourough technicians in this forum, and also a highly respected tech journalist in online magazines. One Tom's is lucky to have as a member, his opinion is golden! :wink:


the 40k posts reflect it.
July 7, 2006 6:21:42 PM

and the vast majority are genuine on-topic posts, extremely lean on spam/BS! :wink:
July 7, 2006 7:03:35 PM

Quote:
Could you be overloading one of your rails. You have enough juice, but it's not balance?


This problem screams: mushkin!

the mushkin is pricey for 650w tho :

That is true. The current $40 MIR is a chance to get it all the way down to expensive.
July 7, 2006 7:10:10 PM

:lol:  :lol:  :p  :tongue: :mrgreen: :trophy:
July 7, 2006 8:01:07 PM

How do you know your system uses more than 600W? Just curios.... did you kill-a-watt it? I have a similar setup with more drives and had only one water cooling setup at one time, with SLI'ed GTX's and so on, it only used a max of around 330W..... where is the extra 300W going? Just curious.
July 7, 2006 8:27:57 PM

you need to consider also the peak startup spikes even if your normal laod is only 330 watts whats the peak spike when everything is spinning up ? it is usually alot higher than normal usage. also having more watts means you have more headroom for overclocking :D 
July 7, 2006 8:37:43 PM

Quote:
you need to consider also the peak startup spikes even if your normal laod is only 330 watts whats the peak spike when everything is spinning up ? it is usually alot higher than normal usage. also having more watts means you have more headroom for overclocking :D 


My PC...
Lian Li PC-60plus Black Aluminum Case (w/TR-3B Black Thermometer/Fan Controller 3.5” bay and a L.I.S.2 (5.5” bay USB LCD Fan Controller))
Opteron 175 (OC’d 2x 2.64 GHz, 2MB cache, Socket 939, .09 micron, E6 stepping, OSA175DAA6CD)
ThermalTake BigWater 745 liquid cooling system complete kit
Asus A8R32-MVP Motherboard (ATI Radeon Xpress 3200 CrossFire, socket 939, SATA2)
HiS X1800XT Graphics Card (625 MHz/700 MHz OC core/1500 Mhz/1600 MHz OC mem, Dual DL-DVI VIVO 512 MB PCIe)
ATI TV Theater 550 PRO Tuner (PCI TV and FM Tuner)
4x 512MB Corsair Micro Xpert DDR RAM (2.5-3-3-8-2T (spd 2-2-2-5-1T) TwinXP 1024-3200XL)
2x 74gig Western Digital Raptor Hard Drives RAID-0 (WD740GD RAID0 150gig Boot Drive)
2x 250gig Western Digital Caviar SE16 Hard Drives (WD2500KS storage and data)
Plextor 716AL Black 16x DVD/CD Burner (IDE slot loading type)
Antec TP-II 550 Power Supply (550 Watt ATX12V v2.0 PSU)
Dell 2405FPW 24-inch LCD Monitor (UltraSharp Wide Aspect Flat Panel Display)
Logitech G-15 Gaming Keyboard
Logitech Cordless Optical TrackMan
Case Fans (PanaFlo 120mm intake, Adda 120mm exhaust blower, PanaFlo 120mm internal circulatory Fan, PanaFlo 92mm exhaust and PanaFlo 80mm Fan)

Measurements and Analysis of Power Draw consumed from this Opteron PC using "Kill-a-Watt" meter.
Based on a brief quick test, and several follow-ups, I preclude that my AMD Opteron rig when over-clocked at 2420MHz from 2200MHz consumes:
≤ 200 Watts at Idle
≤ 250 Watts during Boot Up
and
≤ 350 Watts at maximum load when benchmarking using 3DMark06 (at 75% efficiency, my PC is requiring ≈ 265 watts of true power from my power supply)
Note: This is only the PC measured at outlet from the Power Supply; my LCD Monitor was not measured per these results.

Boot up power usage on my PC, uses less than when in 3D Gaming...
July 7, 2006 8:43:14 PM

Same with mine, different wattage but same effects. I stressed my system to the max.
Dual Prime
6 HDD read/write
3d Stress Test
I didn't bother with sound and optical drives.... but 330 was the max draw from the outlet when I did this. But then again, I have not increased my CPU vcore as much as richpls.... that might make up the slight wattage difference.
July 7, 2006 9:06:43 PM

this guy doesnt need a massive amount of wattage. the ASpire 600w PSU sucks. he needs a nice chunk of wattage but not a kilowatt.
July 7, 2006 10:24:23 PM

Right on Peng, I just didn't want to insult...
July 7, 2006 11:16:42 PM

Quote:
Right on Peng, I just didn't want to insult...


thats fine, im just stating facts. Aspire does make sub-par PSU's but they are really good for the money. some look cool :
July 8, 2006 12:01:13 AM

I'm with Crashman on this one. Go with the FSP - good secondary brand to PC Power and Cooling - they're the best, but not by all that much.
July 8, 2006 12:16:24 AM

FSP makes PC Power and Cooling :wink:
July 8, 2006 12:18:27 AM

I have an FSP 700 and I had some issues with it powering my 7900GTX. It had no trouble with my 7800GTX. While it does have a quad rail system, they function on the lower end of the spectrum as far as amps per rail at only 15 - which is kinda low. It is why I ended up getting the Silverstone 750. If you don't plan on running anything above a 7800GTX then it should function just fine but, if you have any eye to the future you might consider other options.
July 8, 2006 12:32:19 AM

yeah... amps are important.... not watts.... you can get a lower watt high amp psu.... IE.... an FSP 500W that will rock SLI or Xfire anything.....
July 8, 2006 12:51:46 AM

This is true, FSP has a 500W SINGLE RAIL system that is actually better in some systems because you don't have those low per-rail limits.
July 8, 2006 1:19:44 AM

Quote:
Could you be overloading one of your rails. You have enough juice,
but it's not balance?


Hmm tell me more. I did have my set up with both 2 water cooling system using on a single rails. I have no knowledge of this "overloading one certain rail" that could lead to the demise of the power unit.
July 8, 2006 1:39:21 AM

Quote:
Right on Peng, I just didn't want to insult...


thats fine, im just stating facts. Aspire does make sub-par PSU's but they are really good for the money. some look cool :

No not at all, after all I do need you guys honest opinion here. Yes, I have mention the Aspire does not make top quality psu, but it is good for the money. :)  I have used them before but for a low wattage pc with only a single ATI card. Got some reviews about the AS600 but nothing really saying of the best.

So I have sent the broken psu back for warranty replacement and I'm cannibalizing an older psu for my secondary power. Maybe the Aspire AS600 didn't handle the power load as expected.

So now I gonna use the replacement AS600 psu when it will arrive hopefully before next weekend. Then I could set up the dual power supply and if the AS600 will fail me again, then it would be time to go for high quality psu preferably the ones you guys have suggested to buy.

Thanks again for all your helpful inputs.
!