Buying an X2 after price drops

[sjps220]

As most of you probably know, the prices of Athlon X2 processors are going to drop once conroe is released. I have heard anywhere from 30-50%. I even found this chart which shows the prices of the x2 line after Conroe's launch. I have no idea how accurate it will prove to be (does anyone know?).

So, because I am already on a 939 setup, and I don't want to get new memory and another mobo, I want to use conroe's launch to get myself a cheap X2.

The question is, which one?

I currently have a 3500+ (which will be going to a friend or family member) and I wanted something that would be as good as that if not better even in single threaded programs. This will probably be done with some overclocking, but not a lot. I want to get to around 2.3-2.4 out of it, and I plan on getting an arctic cooling freezer 64 pro.

My main question is, would the 2.2 ghz 4200+ be built any differently than the 2.0 ghz 3800? If I overclock my 3800 to the exact clock speed of the 4200, are they basically identical? I don't want to get a toledo because I've heard they run hotter and the extra L2 doesn't do as much as people think (It also helps that I'm cheap!), so I'm trying to decide between these two.

Opinions? Suggestions?

 

[pengwin]

if u overclock the 3800 to 4200 speeds then yes they are the same but you loose OCing headroom if u get a slower CPU off the bat.

 

[sjps220]

So that chart says that the 3800 will be $169 and the 4200 will be $240. That seems like a lot to pay for 200 mhz. Will it make a huge difference in overclocking?

 

[sjps220]

Also, for those of you that have a 3800, is an aftermarket cooler a good idea for overclocking? I used one last week and saw that it was running quite cool with the stock heatsink.

 

[Mortse]

Also, for those of you that have a 3800, is an aftermarket cooler a good idea for overclocking? I used one last week and saw that it was running quite cool with the stock heatsink.

I can say with certainty that the stock cooler is more than adequate to overclock the 3800 to 4200 speed as i have one running quite nicely at 2.27GHz with stock cooler at 45C under full load.

 

[cafuddled]

Well a 3800+ clocked at the same clock speed as a 4200+ will be much faster than the actual 4200+ since you can only overclock the FSP on the new AMDs. This does however mean that your top end is lower but not by much...

I my self will be getting the 4400+ since I have always went for the lowest speed with the most cache.

 

[sjps220]

Does cache help in overclocking?

Thank you for all the responses.

 

[RichPLS]

Actually, It can hurt overclocking...

 

[JohnWeldt]

i have one running quite nicely at 2.27GHz with stock cooler at 45C under full load.

What is your ambient temperature?

 

[sjps220]

So why is the opteron 165 (and higher) so popular among overclockers? I was under the impression that it was the cache, but I must be wrong.

Are the prices of 939 opterons expected to drop at all?

 

[Mortse]

i have one running quite nicely at 2.27GHz with stock cooler at 45C under full load.

What is your ambient temperature?

Around 33C - One day i will install another fan

 

[Kholonar]

The only difference between the 3800 X2 and the 4200 X2 is the x11 multiplier instead of the x10 multiplier of the 3800. I personally think it's a waste to get the 4200 if you are willing to overclock. My 3800 X2 runs at 2.7GHz at 1.35V and in this heatwave I've got the processor running at 2.4GHz 1.2V. Oh, and it doesn't matter whether you use a 4200 X2 or a 3800X2, the temps will be pretty much identical for a given clockspeed (the only difference being the motherboard running hotter for the 3800X2 because you have to overclock that more to reach the same clock speed).

I also use the AC Freezer 64 Pro, I like it.

Oh, and the 1MB cache doesn't make a blind bit of difference in most applications, using Sisoft Sandra I seem to get the same results clock for clock as a 4200 X2. I think you need to be using big vector data to see a difference (ie finite element analysis) and even then the data tends to be larger than even big L2 cache can store.

 

[sjps220]

Thank you very much Kholonar.

I think that I will be going for the 3800 and the AC freezer pro. I am starting to agree with you that there isn't enough difference to warrant going for the 4200.

I don't know very much about overclocking. I plan on researching a lot before I do. You say you hit 2.7 at 1.35 volts? Is that stock voltage?

I haven't really watched a hardware launch as major as conroe before, so does anyone have any idea how quickly the prices will drop at major retailers? Will it be instant on the day of the launch, or will retailers choose to slowly lower it?

It's funny that I'm getting a 3800, but conroe can't come soon enough for me!

 

[sjps220]

okay, now the newest chart says that the price for the 3800 X2 is $169 and the price of the 4200 X2 is $175. Is it worth that price difference for the 11x multiplier?

 

[SidVicious]

Overclocking a K8 CPU is as painless as it can be, as long as your motherboard can run stable on a higher bus.

Even though I need slightly over 1.6V and watercooling to hit 2.9GHz on my 43rd of '05 E4 Manchester, later cores can do that on a much lower Vcore while using decent air cooling so 2.6 to 2.7GHz is entirely possible.

 

[RichPLS]

I have an Opteron 175 rev E6 (the latest I believe) and the best in overclocking components, A8R32-MVP board, Corsair XMS memory, HiS X1800XT gpu, 2x74gig Raptor RAID0, water cooling, etc...

and 2.68GHz is the highest stable overclock I can reach for 24/7 operation... so I run it continuosly at 2.64GHz... now I did reach 2.8GHz, but it was not stable...

Also, I have tried overclocking personally several other AMD chips... and all appear to have a low ratio of overclockability compared with Intel cpu's...
of course I too hear other stories about ridiculous overclocks but I believe they are either exaggerations or just lucky for which they are far and few between...

 

[sektor]

okay, now the newest chart says that the price for the 3800 X2 is $169 and the price of the 4200 X2 is $175. Is it worth that price difference for the 11x multiplier?

can you post a where the new prices are for the AMD cpu's for the upcoming price cut?

missed that one.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found it.

 

[SidVicious]

I have an Opteron 175 rev E6 (the latest I believe) and the best in overclocking components, A8R32-MVP board, Corsair XMS memory, HiS X1800XT gpu, 2x74gig Raptor RAID0, water cooling, etc...

and 2.68GHz is the highest stable overclock I can reach for 24/7 operation... so I run it continuosly at 2.64GHz... now I did reach 2.8GHz, but it was not stable...

Also, I have tried overclocking personally several other AMD chips... and all appear to have a low ratio of overclockability compared with Intel cpu's...
of course I too hear other stories about ridiculous overclocks but I believe they are either exaggerations or just lucky for which they are far and few between...

How old is that CPU ? The wall you hit seem to be consistent with CPUs that were fabbed in late '05 such as mine.

According to this XtremeSystems thread, '06 Manchesters are better overclockers than the previous batches as they require less Vcore (and therefore scale better with adequate cooling) to hit the same clock.

BTW, saying that your Opty is based on the E6 stepping is redundant as all 2x1MB L2 CPUs for 939 are E6 cores. An E4 Manchester (like mine) was fabbed with 2x512KB L2 while an E6 Manchester would be a Toledo with half its cache disabled.

 

[RichPLS]

Yes, my chip was bought from Newegg for $469 in late Dec 2005... and am stoked tho that I got such a good price for then, for it is essentially above that price today! (since AMD is ignoring 939's concerning price cutting)
So if I bought a new Opteron 175 it would or should achieve better overclocks and exceed 2.8GHz?